if time travel was posible what would happen if you went into the past and killed you
- 03-08-2005, 08:20 PM
if time travel was posible what would happen if you went into the past and killed you
so lets imagine that time travel is possible which einstein believed it was. you are 30 years old and you go back in time and kill yourself when you are 10. how could it be possible because you would have never grown to be 30 and to go back in time? so what would happen?
my friends and i got into this discussion. they think it would be possible but i will give my opinion after i here some other.
- 03-08-2005, 08:27 PM
Your conversion, with or without your knowledge, is often called the grandfather paradox but rather than killing yourself, you kill your grandfather. This often leads to the discussion of parallel universes. If you are interesting in learning more about this, then read about M-theory and its 11 dimensions.
03-08-2005, 08:29 PM
03-08-2005, 08:31 PM
aha i woud actually really be intersted to read about this theory. i am always interested in in things that get your imagination going like afterlife, aliens, ghosts, dinosaurs, and time travel. it sounds flaky but i think it is fun to wonder about stuff. so what do you think would happen size?
03-08-2005, 08:36 PM
03-08-2005, 08:45 PM
If I could answer this question, then I probably would win a Nobel prize. It is a very confusing slope to approach this subject matter and those connected to it. One needs to completely change ones thought process in my experience.Originally Posted by hogiejoe
If this sort of topic interests you, then try reading and learning about quantum mechanics, general relativity, and string theory. One can progress from there to many interesting ideas. I know some books you probably can find at a local library that you could read on these topics.
I really enjoy these topics but they are very confusing. The math used in the proofs is overwhelming and mind numbing.
03-08-2005, 08:55 PM
this discussion is very encouraging, indeed! So much for the old adage that bber's are just a bunch of meatheads. Quantum mechanics, time travel, philosophy???....nice! Or, yeah, either that, or someone got into some of the good nootropics!
03-08-2005, 09:01 PM
This place has never been the typical bb'ng board. That's why I like it so much.
These topics also interest me, but the damn math gets in the way everytime. Stuff just blows my mind.
03-08-2005, 09:19 PM
Two books to read that are fairly cheap and will blow your mind Hyperspace by Kaku and The Elegant Universe by Greene. Both explain string theory and time travel. It isn't necessarily that you can travel in your own past. Instead you are more traveling in other peoples' pasts. In other words. When you begin to reach the speed of light (lets say around .9 times the speed of light) time starts to slow down, however, it ONLY slows down in your referance frame. Other peopl's reference frames continue to go on at the same time. The strange thing is, you see other peoples reference frames going slower but to an outside observer you are moving slower. I study a lot of physics and theoretical physics and it is very easy to get a headache reading this stuff trying to figure it out lol..
03-08-2005, 09:30 PM
You could try Beyond Einstein by Kaku or A Brief History of Time by Hawking as well. The math is hidden if that's not your thing.
I've taken courses in Quantum Mech. and General Relativity and it's crazy stuff. The implication of these theories are crazier than many things that people could dream up.
edit: first book title and author were wrong
03-08-2005, 10:25 PM
I agree on The Elegant Universe and A Brief History of Time. Both are very good works; I especially like The Elegant Universe simply b/c I like Greene's writing style. Another book is Hawking's The Universe in a Nutshell.
Be aware for some,these books do not read quickly. If you are like me, then when you read them you may find yourself pondering thoughts for extended periods of time. In some cases, I would read only a few pages and then literally think about the ideas for hours.
It really is wild, crazy,astounding, etc. In truth, I find it inspirational.Originally Posted by jas123
03-08-2005, 10:53 PM
stephen hawking has some good books on this. i read one a few years back called black holes and some other ****. interesting stuff, talked about wormholes, string theory, etc.
"black holes and baby universes and other essays"
that's the name of it, amazon has everything.
Last edited by Beelzebub; 03-09-2005 at 12:39 AM.
03-08-2005, 10:54 PM
I will bump the brief history of time.. Hawkin was kicking in that one.. as for the time dilations at or near the speed of light.. it actually starts at speeds much lower but due to our linear nature, we can't detect it till it start to be around .5 the speed of light and higher. I had the introduction to quantum mechs as part of my undergrad degree.. the reading was outstanding and very thought provoking like size said.. the math on the other had took way to much paper to complete a problem
03-08-2005, 11:04 PM
In an Illustrated Brief History of Time, Hawking proposes two theories about travelling into the past. Under one, you have no free will, so nothing you do there can change the future, and in the other, more popular one, you do have free will and can change the future. So if you killed your earlier self or father, you would create an alternate future.
03-08-2005, 11:04 PM
i've been interested in this since i took an upper level physics course. we touched on the theory of relativity, and it blew my mind. i'm going to pick up that hawking book tomorrow. i'll read a book by anybody in his circumstance, much less a brilliant mathmatician.
03-09-2005, 12:27 AM
03-09-2005, 12:52 AM
I personally back the multiple world theory in that there are an infinite number of world lines, so that if time travel were possible you wouldn't be killing yourself on the same worldline you had been born in because you would have a slight divbergence between timelines and worldlines, thus making it a moot point. The better wuestion is if time travel is possible. So far, there are a few theories, all of which are either impossible (tipler cylinders involving infinite mass), or would destroy anything that it actually sent through time (wormholes).
03-09-2005, 01:42 AM
I think it is not a question of "can" but rather a question of "how". However, I must admit that I waver on this. It is such an unconventional thought that it is difficult to consider.Originally Posted by griz145389
The universe is truly amazing.
03-09-2005, 03:43 AM
WOW! This is a topic I have been interested for a while but have never gone in depth on reading about it, just talked about it in a conversation with relatively bright friends. Which books would you pick out of the above for a person not keen on the math at all and just getting into this subject, thanks guys?!
03-09-2005, 04:00 AM
We(my physics class) was discussing this with the teacher not long ago and we were told that if there were 2 twins, say they are both 20yrs old. 1 stays on earth, 1 gets shot off in a rocket through the universe @ ~90% the speed of light.Originally Posted by LakeMountD
50years later when the rocket returns, the twin that stayed on earth is now 70 and appears old. The other twin however has the appearance of a 20, maybe 30year old, because time to him has slowed down while he was on the rocket going close to the speed of light.
03-09-2005, 04:50 AM
Well, the idea is right but the time is drastically incorrect. The twin on earth would be long since dead and so would everyone else that the "space" twin ever met. Your teacher needs to learn more before teaching the class these concepts.Originally Posted by meathead1987
03-09-2005, 06:13 AM
03-09-2005, 07:34 AM
That was what I was about to say size... time dilation that close to the speed of light would really cause a major difference between the two twins..
As for a good book, Hawkin's A Brief History of Time is the way to go.
03-09-2005, 11:45 AM
03-09-2005, 12:08 PM
03-09-2005, 12:38 PM
I can post the relativistic equations if you want. You guys do have your time dilation numbers way off. And as I stated earlier in the thread. It isn't as much that you can travel back into your own past but instead you are traveling into everyone elses past because they are aging faster. Your reference frame slows down relative to theirs. Therefore if they are aging faster than technically your in their past. The strange thing is, your technically traveling into their reference times future as well considering if you were traveling anywhere near the speed of light than they will be long dead.
But lets not forget that near light speed travel is almost impossible and will be for thousands of years. Reason is simple and it goes back to Newton. F(force)=m(mass) x a(acceleration). Now think if we increase acceleration to anywhere near the speed of light your mass starts to become infinite. And at light speed there is an assymptote showing that mass would become infinite and in other words to travel exactly 1c (the speed of light) you would need more energy than there is in the entire universe. Now think if we wanted to travel .999 the speed of light or hell even .8 the speed of light how much energy we would need.
03-09-2005, 12:43 PM
I guess it depends on what you consider time travel. If you consider the twin paradox type of situation that meathead described as time travel into the future of the "stationary" earth to be time travel then it is possible (this is the premise of the original Planet of the Apes movie).Originally Posted by size
I believe this "time travel" has actually been acheived by some sort of decaying particle. The particle accelerator at Stanford has gotten a decaying particle up to a high enough speed so that the decay time of the particle was significantly longer than it would have been if it were traveling at a lower speed.
As far as time travel into the past goes, who knows it's just sort of educated guesses as far as I can tell.
Using quantum mechanics, an Australian physicist claimed to have teleported a beam of light a few years ago. Not sure what became of that, but it's very science fictiony.
03-09-2005, 12:46 PM
Since you couldn't go back and kill yourself when you were 10, could you go back in time and kill your grandparents or change events to where they never got married or anything?
03-09-2005, 12:55 PM
That seriously had me laughing, just had a mental picture of a book called that.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
03-09-2005, 01:29 PM
I just don't see how you could travel back in time, I can only see traveling into the future through a slowing/halting of our cellular metabolism much like a bear's hibernation or like those theoretical sleep chambers you see in movies made for travelling light years away without aging. To travel in the past to me would be more like traveling to a paralell dimension where you could also exist(as a younger or older version of yourself) much like that movie with Jet Li where he kills himself in other dimensions except I doubt you would become god-like from doing that. But in killing yourself that way you still remain but the you from that dimension is now dead...
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