Why Gawd? Why?!!!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    saying they can't serve simply because they are female doesn't cut it and im well aware of what war does i have friends who have served several tours aunts uncles grandparents who have served in many different branches.this is 2014 not 1930
    You are missing the point...sit and watch the real experienced guys talk about this. You are missing their points, it's not because they are women...it is because of all the points they have made, and the reasons you are ignoring. Neither you nor I have served, you can be a part of the discussion, but for that you have to listen to their points...understand where they are coming from and answer with counter arguments to their ideas, because they are not arguing they can't do it just because they are women, they are talking about team cohesion and the physical and psychological demands needed for it...
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post

    saying they can't serve simply because they are female doesn't cut it and im well aware of what war does i have friends who have served several tours aunts uncles grandparents who have served in many different branches.this is 2014 not 1930
    Again, you are being ignorant.

    Women have been serving for years, no one is talking about a woman serving in the military. We are talking about being a member of an infantry platoon.

    Infantry platoon =/= army

    They are two very different beasts entirely. The culture difference between 11 series and POGs is something anyone can attest to.

    The way infantry platoons are run is in no way a politically correct endeavor and by adding women to that would change the entire dynamic of the unit and would (from personal experience) ruin unit cohesion.

    No 11B wants a woman in his platoon, I hear this sentiment everyday.

    Also, as I've already pointed out, the standard a woman meets is not sufficient to be on the front line. How can I (as a lighter Guy even) trust a 100 pound woman who can barely do 25 pushups to drag me, in full kit, if I get injured? On top of the fact that some guys in my unit weigh ~200 pounds before kitting up.
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  3. I'm married member to member and I completely agree with ya guys. Some women may be fully capable of it, but I definitely see the situations ability to cause some problems.

    In my branch though, women can serve in every line of work, including deployable specialized forces. I imagine infantry being a whole nother thing
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by benmayro View Post
    I do not take anything personal about politics or the Internet and you made many valid points bud
    I agree with you there. There is two questions. do I believe women should get the chance to go to the front lines? yes. Do I believe they can handle it, no. There should be equal and significant physical requirements that does not differ between sexes. I do not believe in mixed units though. let's say 40 women made it through the requirements like all the males. than they can have their own groups.
    Really? You didn't just say that...
    You would like to see them sent to their deaths, KNOWING that they can't handle it. A PLATOON of women... who would lead? Can you imagine the amount of BULL**** a platoon sgt would deal with when 40 bitches are bleeding? MEN already pose a problem... women will further complicate things and pose at least twice to three times as many problems.

    Women in the infantry is the biggest load of bull****, as is equal opportunity rights in general.

    First off, can you imagine the amount of harassment lawsuits that will take place on a daily basis. We are vulgar and ****ing cruel to each other (jokingly) but we can handle ourselves. Females with their emotional mind state of a 12 year old would come crying every 3 seconds for being called a bitch, ****, twat or w/e word they take offense to that day.

    95% of the men in the infantry are disgusting creatures... with disgusting views and ideas. Part of them think rape is okay (yes I've heard numerous people say it, and some sgt instruct his boots on it)

    Once women join the infantry and see the bull**** we put up with, they will want out. Not to mention when we go to the field they will want special treatment because they are women, special places to eat **** and piss.
    You can't demand equality and then ask for special treatment. Equal is equal and it'll never happen. Their 70 cents to our Dollar is what's been and is what it will be in the future. MEN have been shown on average to work harder, work longer, and be smarter then women. That's not to say that there isn't a single women that isn't harder working, longer working or smarter than any man, but that's the average consensus. IE: Females have gotten their chance at equal rights where they want and need it. To demand it in every facet of life is ridiculous and a decision that they will whole heartily regret.

    Like above posters mentioned, unit cohession, comradery and other qualities that make an infantry unit unique would be shattered and halted from progression.

    FYI not sexist, so don't throw that **** at me.

  5. The purpose of militaries, infantry units and such are to win wars and battles through combat.

    What everyone seems to forget is how we got to where we are now in Iraq and Afghanistan. They think these FOBs we have out here have always been here and when ever there is conflict we can just patrol out of our luxurious FOB accommodations. In 2003, when I went into Iraq with 1st Mar Div I was crammed in the back of an AAV that is designed for about 15 persons and gear. We had 20-23 plus gear, food, water, ammo, in NBC suits. This meant we were sitting on each others labs and in seriously awkward positions. We would be in there for hour upon hour moving across the desert towards Bagdad. If we had to piss, our only choice was to whip it out and piss in a bottle right next to your buddies face. When we were stopped we would squat or use an ammo crate to sit on and take a ****, out in the open, while vehicle after vehicle drive by in the convoy. Like hey guys, don't mind me, just ****ting here. There was no place to find privacy if you wanted it. After day upon day of wearing te NBC suits 24/7 and no shower for weeks (I went over a month) we had crotch rot and a?? rash and nasties growing on us. If we had time and was safe we would drop trousers and baby wipe our balls or hand sanitize them. Are women going to want to go through that? See that? Be apart of that? We are crude. We say the most horrible things to get a laugh because all the normal jokes got old. Are they ready to man up to tht kind of humor? Day to day in garrison that humor can be avoided, but in battle its a stress reliever and coping mechanism.

    Yes, conventional "front lines" are likely a thing of the past and there are women out there kicking ass and taking names and already in roles of combat. Female Engagement Teams for example. IMO the better thing to do is to legitimize the roles that are already there not make it universal in every aspect. I can see women being apart of SOF units/communities, but as a tool and assest. Not as the bulk and regular part of the team.


    It's nuts already as it is when two grown straight men start playing gay chicken. Can you imagine what it would be like if you through a girl into that scenario??
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    Again, you are being ignorant.

    Women have been serving for years, no one is talking about a woman serving in the military. We are talking about being a member of an infantry platoon.

    Infantry platoon =/= army

    They are two very different beasts entirely. The culture difference between 11 series and POGs is something anyone can attest to.

    The way infantry platoons are run is in no way a politically correct endeavor and by adding women to that would change the entire dynamic of the unit and would (from personal experience) ruin unit cohesion.

    No 11B wants a woman in his platoon, I hear this sentiment everyday.

    Also, as I've already pointed out, the standard a woman meets is not sufficient to be on the front line. How can I (as a lighter Guy even) trust a 100 pound woman who can barely do 25 pushups to drag me, in full kit, if I get injured? On top of the fact that some guys in my unit weigh ~200 pounds before kitting up.
    guess i should have spelled it out.yes i believe they should be able to serve in a platoon making judgements like you are doing is no different than when African Americans weren't allow in sports and etc because they were looked at as inferior

  7. You CANNOT compare equality rights in WOMEN and Black people... you're just trying to bring up moot points to try and further your failed argument.
  8. Re: Why Gawd? Why?!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    guess i should have spelled it out.yes i believe they should be able to serve in a platoon making judgements like you are doing is no different than when African Americans weren't allow in sports and etc because they were looked at as inferior
    What?! Completely absurd and erroneous. Race and gender are completely different. No one in this thread is even talking about race. This is a conversation about the physical limits of women versus men not racial equality. See your idiotic commentary back to the AF sub forum where you and Tom Davis can exchange war stories that you heard about from other people.

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  9. Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post

    guess i should have spelled it out.yes i believe they should be able to serve in a platoon making judgements like you are doing is no different than when African Americans weren't allow in sports and etc because they were looked at as inferior
    You're an idiot.

    Apples to oranges comparison.

    It must be nice to have other people fight for your freedoms and then try to tell them how they should do it.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post

    guess i should have spelled it out.yes i believe they should be able to serve in a platoon making judgements like you are doing is no different than when African Americans weren't allow in sports and etc because they were looked at as inferior
    Did you really just pull the race card to relate this issue to a past one? You don't know what on earth you're talking about and if you want to have a clue then I can direct you to a recruitment office and you can find out first hand.

    P.s. I'm not kidding. You're in the metro Detroit area my brother runs the port Huron recruitment center.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by mich29

    guess i should have spelled it out.yes i believe they should be able to serve in a platoon making judgements like you are doing is no different than when African Americans weren't allow in sports and etc because they were looked at as inferior
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by CopyCat View Post
    This is Echo Six Whiskey
    Say again your last
    You are coming in broken and in readable
    And by unreadable I mean stupid
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  13. sad this couldn't have stayed a simple debate without the use of name calling and a negative rep.I guess we will agree to disagree on this matter.I believe women should have the same right to enlist as men into platoons and any other area regardless on if I believe its safe or not it shouldn't be anyone's place to say you can't do something because you feel they are inferior to you.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    sad this couldn't have stayed a simple debate without the use of name calling and a negative rep.I guess we will agree to disagree on this matter.I believe women should have the same right to enlist as men into platoons and any other area regardless on if I believe its safe or not it shouldn't be anyone's place to say you can't do something because you feel they are inferior to you.
    http://usarmybasic.com/army-physical...apft-standards

    Check that PT standard difference.


    But of course, you have absolutely no experience AT ALL and will continue to disagree with all of the people who have FIRST HAND experience.

    Hell, my minimum for pushups is 100% for a woman of the same age, which is ridiculous.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    sad this couldn't have stayed a simple debate without the use of name calling and a negative rep.I guess we will agree to disagree on this matter.I believe women should have the same right to enlist as men into platoons and any other area regardless on if I believe its safe or not it shouldn't be anyone's place to say you can't do something because you feel they are inferior to you.
    You say that now...until that women who has the same rights as you has to save your ass on the front line, but can't because she's not strong enough to move you around...BUT she passed her PT test and meets the physical standards so it's ok right?
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    http://usarmybasic.com/army-physical...apft-standards

    Check that PT standard difference.


    But of course, you have absolutely no experience AT ALL and will continue to disagree with all of the people who have FIRST HAND experience.
    Experience has nothing to do with it.prejudge is prejudge.


    I'm aware of the requirements I've already had this debate with others who have served on the matter long before this thread was even created.if your that scared because a woman is next to you in a bunker and you don't feel your safe you shouldn't have signed up in the first place.saying they can't serve simply because they are a woman is no difference then any other form of prejudge I'm not saying they aren't a risk if you had read through my response instead of raving like a mad man you would have noticed that. I am saying they should have the right.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    sad this couldn't have stayed a simple debate without the use of name calling and a negative rep.I guess we will agree to disagree on this matter.I believe women should have the same right to enlist as men into platoons and any other area regardless on if I believe its safe or not it shouldn't be anyone's place to say you can't do something because you feel they are inferior to you.
    You have completely missed the points made on the matter and choose to see it as a women's rights issue. There's are point where things cease to be sexist and are just true.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post
    You have completely missed the points made on the matter and choose to see it as a women's rights issue. There's are point where things cease to be sexist and are just true.
    I've addressed this in the thread above.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post

    Experience has nothing to do with it.prejudge is prejudge.

    I'm aware of the requirements I've already had this debate with others who have served on the matter long before this thread was even created.if your that scared because a woman is next to you in a bunker and you don't feel your safe you shouldn't have signed up in the first place.saying they can't serve simply because they are a woman is no difference then any other form of prejudge I'm not saying they aren't a risk if you had read through my response instead of raving like a mad man you would have noticed that. I am saying they should have the right.
    Experience has EVERYTHING to do with it.

    I'm not talking about a woman being on a FOB with me or in garrison with me being a problem, I'm talking about a woman being in combat with me and not being physically capable to do things that need to be done for everyone to survive. I'm talking about making movements with rucks that weigh as much as she does and other members of the PLT having to take some of her load because she can't handle it.

    I've seen the women that wear the same uniform as me out and about doing PT and doing Ruck Marches (with only 35 pounds) and they can't keep the pace that their unit is going at and my unit RUNS with ours.

    Forgive me for not having faith in a woman because I've seen them in action and they can't survive the cut.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post

    Experience has nothing to do with it.prejudge is prejudge.

    I'm aware of the requirements I've already had this debate with others who have served on the matter long before this thread was even created.if your that scared because a woman is next to you in a bunker and you don't feel your safe you shouldn't have signed up in the first place.saying they can't serve simply because they are a woman is no difference then any other form of prejudge I'm not saying they aren't a risk if you had read through my response instead of raving like a mad man you would have noticed that. I am saying they should have the right.
    Soo the men signing up and dying in those bunkers don't have the right to at least be as safe as possible and deserve to be put at more "risk" than they already are? If they should have the right they should have to match our physical standards.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by Danb2285 View Post

    Soo the men signing up and dying in those bunkers don't have the right to at least be as safe as possible and deserve to be put at more "risk" than they already are? If they should have the right they should have to match our physical standards.
    Which is my point.

    If they want to be in a line company the need to meet a line company standard.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    Which is my point.

    If they want to be in a line company the need to meet a line company standard.
    I concur lol
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Experience has EVERYTHING to do with it.

    I'm not talking about a woman being on a FOB with me or in garrison with me being a problem, I'm talking about a woman being in combat with me and not being physically capable to do things that need to be done for everyone to survive. I'm talking about making movements with rucks that weigh as much as she does and other members of the PLT having to take some of her load because she can't handle it.

    I've seen the women that wear the same uniform as me out and about doing PT and doing Ruck Marches (with only 35 pounds) and they can't keep the pace that their unit is going at and my unit RUNS with ours.

    Forgive me for not having faith in a woman because I've seen them in action and they can't survive the cut.
    For the sake of asking...because you guys HAVE the experience and know about this. Lets say you get a 5'11 185lb Viking-descendant "female" that can do all you can...I mean I know 1 out of a million, she also has done multiple Test or 19nor cycles and DHT derivatives...her sexual preferences may even be on our side...

    For the sake of asking...assuming she can even outbest the WEAKEST and SLOWEST MALE member of infantry...again a 1 in a MILLION chance...but would YOU have a problem with "her" serving in the infantry lines?
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post

    For the sake of asking...because you guys HAVE the experience and know about this. Lets say you get a 5'11 185lb Viking-descendant "female" that can do all you can...I mean I know 1 out of a million, she also has done multiple Test or 19nor cycles and DHT derivatives...her sexual preferences may even be on our side...

    For the sake of asking...assuming she can even outbest the WEAKEST and SLOWEST MALE member of infantry...again a 1 in a MILLION chance...but would YOU have a problem with "her" serving in the infantry lines?
    Not at all.
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by Danb2285 View Post
    Not at all.
    Thanks, this proves a point. We are not talking about gender (or race) discrimination (stab meant at mitch, no shame just making sense here...).

    Now Mitch, try to understand english and learn the fact it is about the EXPERIENCED men who risk their lives day by day for us to be able to be free, and either address the points they are bringing to the table (in a polite and humble manner since you haven't served at all, just like I haven't) or quietly bow out of this thread.

    /end rant.
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  26. Whoa whoa I should say I've never served. Sorry if I made that impression. I just respect the ones who do.
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post

    For the sake of asking...because you guys HAVE the experience and know about this. Lets say you get a 5'11 185lb Viking-descendant "female" that can do all you can...I mean I know 1 out of a million, she also has done multiple Test or 19nor cycles and DHT derivatives...her sexual preferences may even be on our side...

    For the sake of asking...assuming she can even outbest the WEAKEST and SLOWEST MALE member of infantry...again a 1 in a MILLION chance...but would YOU have a problem with "her" serving in the infantry lines?
    See my above post.

    I think PT standards would be better suited if they were MOS dependant rather than Gender Dependant. If they can meet the standard I meet then that is perfectly fine, BUT the standard they meet now is not going to cut it.

    As I said before with the Airborne school comparison, that school used to be difficult (when my dad did it in the 50's) and now its easy as fuark. And the reason for that is because with a woman having to run such a slow time (in comparison) all of the runs are slower to accommodate the women in the class.

  28. Correct me if I'm wrong but women are subject to compulsory service including combat in the Israeli military. Last I knew, no one doubted how bad ass the Mossad is.
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  29. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    See my above post.

    I think PT standards would be better suited if they were MOS dependant rather than Gender Dependant. If they can meet the standard I meet then that is perfectly fine, BUT the standard they meet now is not going to cut it.

    As I said before with the Airborne school comparison, that school used to be difficult (when my dad did it in the 50's) and now its easy as fuark. And the reason for that is because with a woman having to run such a slow time (in comparison) all of the runs are slower to accommodate the women in the class.
    If I may...my opinion is that Gender Equality must be BOTH WAYS then. Not only that they allow female members to serve on the infantry...but that they are THUS brought up to face the same standards and requirements male members are. In that case I think some of you experienced members would agree. The issue (if I understood correctly) would still be a matter of team cohesion and psychological requirements that are different for the male/female psyche.

    It is funny how our government and females ask gender equality and political correctness...and yet they are met with lower standards and expectations for these sort of things. I agree with you guys, again humbly, that it is about winning battles/fronts/wars and not about political correctness, if they want to serve the lines...at least meet the exact same standards a man does, not some "equivalence" for their gender.
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  30. Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but women are subject to compulsory service including combat in the Israeli military. Last I knew, no one doubted how bad ass the Mossad is.
    I don't know about that but if it is true you would have to take into account the inherent culture difference between us and them.
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