15 states petition to leave the USA

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    I too value hard work over made up money, but that's unfortunately not how the world works anymore. Deficits will always be larger with a larger population. Many states have a balanced budget law that mandates that a state's budget be balanced so it's impossible for them to run a deficit even if they wanted to. This many times creates a huge gap in services when the money runs out. Roads dont get repaired, etc...

    All I'm saying is that all of our states contribute to the whole in many different ways, but not very many of our states would survive well if left to their own devices.

    Oh, and degrees have a lot to do with the economy. Without educated people there's very little invention, innovation and ground breaking entrepreneurship.
    That is the trouble with American thinking now. We find deficits okay. Why? I wouldn't run a deficit in my own house.. so why pay into a government that can't keep their **** straight?

    If invention and innovations means 1T+ deficits, then you can keep em.

    Left to their own devices, the only states that wouldn't make it in today's world is the utmost northern... only because they no longer have the land to produce food with.. that is the southern states primary economy force.

    It was the people with degree's that knew better than the common working man that the Community Reinvestment Act was good for us... see where that got us? And the Wall street people with degree's who bet on the CRA failing miserably... yet another step in the right direction. We got away from hard work, and now people feel to high and mighty to get their hands dirty. (Oh, and yes I have and advanced degree )

    I am not for the states leaving the union.. but they do have the right to make their voice heard that the direction of the this country is not on a sustainable course, and given the electoral college landscape, only two real states control elections.. of which are the biggest drain on our national economy and produce the most national debt.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982

    That is the trouble with American thinking now. We find deficits okay. Why? I wouldn't run a deficit in my own house.. so why pay into a government that can't keep their **** straight?

    If invention and innovations means 1T+ deficits, then you can keep em.

    Left to their own devices, the only states that wouldn't make it in today's world is the utmost northern... only because they no longer have the land to produce food with.. that is the southern states primary economy force.

    It was the people with degree's that knew better than the common working man that the Community Reinvestment Act was good for us... see where that got us? And the Wall street people with degree's who bet on the CRA failing miserably... yet another step in the right direction. We got away from hard work, and now people feel to high and mighty to get their hands dirty. (Oh, and yes I have and advanced degree )

    I am not for the states leaving the union.. but they do have the right to make their voice heard that the direction of the this country is not on a sustainable course, and given the electoral college landscape, only two real states control elections.. of which are the biggest drain on our national economy and produce the most national debt.
    There are all kinds of ways to spin numbers. Lol. I'll take your point on that.

    Id be interested to see how the southern states would do without ag subsidies. Probably not too well. American grown food would be just about unaffordable.

    I'm glad to see we can differ in opinion without getting personal. Not too many people can debate without hating the other person.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    There are all kinds of ways to spin numbers. Lol. I'll take your point on that.

    Id be interested to see how the southern states would do without ag subsidies. Probably not too well. American grown food would be just about unaffordable.

    I'm glad to see we can differ in opinion without getting personal. Not too many people can debate without hating the other person.
    Yeah.. people tend to get bent out of shape with differing opinions.

    The AG subsidies are a problem as well. That is Gov. stepping in and controlling what someone grows to "benefit" the US rather than letting the free market decide, and price point all crops. It was one of the reasons for swift inflation in the past, especially on food. Now ethanol is pretty much required in all gas blends, which has shot up food prices associated with corn astronomically... my G' Damn tortilla chips are getting spendy!

    As a libertarian, to me we have just allowed too much encroachment into our daily lives, allowing people who are so far separated from the common man to dictate down to us what is good for us and our family's. This is easily visible by congress exempting themselves out of Obamacare as well as the unions that bought them into office.

    Dammit, if I want to buy a 32oz diet coke.... best damn well be able to. Not to single out NY... just they have the most liberal laws on the books. Including the new ones that you cannot donate food to the homeless since NY Heath Agency can't regulate the fat and salt intake of homeless from donated food (Bloomberg is taking it way to far). (Just a vent about to much government intervention)
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Yeah.. people tend to get bent out of shape with differing opinions.

    The AG subsidies are a problem as well. That is Gov. stepping in and controlling what someone grows to "benefit" the US rather than letting the free market decide, and price point all crops. It was one of the reasons for swift inflation in the past, especially on food. Now ethanol is pretty much required in all gas blends, which has shot up food prices associated with corn astronomically... my G' Damn tortilla chips are getting spendy!

    As a libertarian, to me we have just allowed too much encroachment into our daily lives, allowing people who are so far separated from the common man to dictate down to us what is good for us and our family's. This is easily visible by congress exempting themselves out of Obamacare as well as the unions that bought them into office.

    Dammit, if I want to buy a 32oz diet coke.... best damn well be able to. Not to single out NY... just they have the most liberal laws on the books. Including the new ones that you cannot donate food to the homeless since NY Heath Agency can't regulate the fat and salt intake of homeless from donated food (Bloomberg is taking it way to far). (Just a vent about to much government intervention)
    Bloomberg has definitely stepped it up recently. If all the fatasses drinking 64oz cokes and eating 40 big macs while doing nothing but sitting on the couch didn't cost the rest of us so much money when we have to pay for them to be surgically removed from their seat and crane lifted out of their apartment and into the emergency room which they can't afford to pay for then I'd be all for letting Darwinism do it's thing. I don't know man, our society is so fuked up I'm not even sure what to do at this point to even begin to repair it.

    What I've always said and will continue to say, democrat, republican, libertarian, whatever, nothing will ever get any better if we don't ALL do the best we can as often as we can to make our own lives and the lives of those around us better every day. Until every single person in this country lives by that, nothing's going to get better
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982

    Yes it is the best country in the world.. but our path is not headed toward a viable future. Hard work is no guarantee anymore in the US for a thriving life... now it is more of the people you know.

    I personally am not okay with 50% of my taxes going to the government next year as is projected.

    And there are petitions from all 50 states now.. but Texas has a huge number.. but they were their own nation well before joining the US.
    My understanding of this, being from Texas, is that because the land does not belong to the United States and Texas joined the Union as a sovereign state it is capable of seceding since the federal government does not actually own the land.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    My understanding of this, being from Texas, is that because the land does not belong to the United States and Texas joined the Union as a sovereign state it is capable of seceding since the federal government does not actually own the land.
    That was the implication. Texas was completely sovereign (As was Hawaii) prior to entering the union in 1845. The US Constitution does not dictate the validity of seceding one way or the other.. but the Texas constitution does state "the people have the right to alter their government in such manner as they might think proper." While the US Constitution doesn't enumerate seceding, the Texas constitutions states Texas will bend to the will of Texans, and not the will of the Federal Government. If that movement ever took hold, it would be up to the commander in chief if he would allow this to be peaceful or bloody. History shows us a President isn't against killing their own people to "preserve the union".

    Fed's don't really own state land (They do have some).. but really the state is owned by the people of said state. The state is bound by the agreement to enter the US essentially. Ironically the states own the fed.. due to the 10 amendment... but it seems to have grown the other way around.
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  7. Texas has produced the finest politician to date:

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  8. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Texas has produced the finest politician to date:

    Not sure I'd consider him a politician. He's too -no bullsh!t- to be called a politician
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by crispycrown View Post
    Apparently Texas reached the threshold of petitions and its washingtons turn to issue a reply. Which will obviously be no.. Idc what you think about the gov but were still the best goddamn country out there.

    There's a petition to make those who signed deported. I may go sign it
    I know this is an old post but FTR most native Texans have desired independence for generations, regardless of who is in the white house. Obama may have sparked the petition in question but he wasn't the root of Texas' enthusiasm for the idea. We still celebrate Texas Independence Day, have a "national" beer, associate with the lone star ideology et cetera.

    And on a more serious note, an economic analysis has shown that as an independent nation we would be the 11th wealthiest, much higher up than the US as a whole, especially with our resources out of the equation. International shipping ports, OPEC oil numbers, farming and agriculture, multiple universities et cetera. Most of us don't agree with current politics and the direction they are taking us at the federal level and would love to "take our ball and go home".

    The ****ed up thing is that people are running en masse from home states with failed economies to ours where the job, housing, retail et cetera markets are strong, but instead of accepting our obviously superior policies and ideologies, they bring their failed bull**** to us and try to apply political pressure here to bring about socio-economic changes they are used too. Then when they encounter significant resistence they bash Texas as backwards while reaping the benefits of Texas their familiar ideologies can't produce.

    Step in line or let us go!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by ThunderHumper View Post
    awsome thread. i dont get why all these cry babies are petitioning to leave the country. wtf would they do if they got cut from the money flow?
    We provide the money flow.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    I too value hard work over made up money, but that's unfortunately not how the world works anymore. Deficits will always be larger with a larger population. Many states have a balanced budget law that mandates that a state's budget be balanced so it's impossible for them to run a deficit even if they wanted to. This many times creates a huge gap in services when the money runs out. Roads dont get repaired, etc...

    All I'm saying is that all of our states contribute to the whole in many different ways, but not very many of our states would survive well if left to their own devices.

    Oh, and degrees have a lot to do with the economy. Without educated people there's very little invention, innovation and ground breaking entrepreneurship.
    Texas is a southern state with a large population. We are doing much better than California, New York, Illinois and Michigan. Why don't we suffer this universal, large population problem?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    There are all kinds of ways to spin numbers. Lol. I'll take your point on that.

    Id be interested to see how the southern states would do without ag subsidies. Probably not too well. American grown food would be just about unaffordable.

    I'm glad to see we can differ in opinion without getting personal. Not too many people can debate without hating the other person.
    It wouldn't be American grown food if the state had seceded. And ag heavy states wouldn't be bread basketing non or weak contributors. As stand alone nations, most of us down here can take care of our own without inflation and still have a surplus of everything from oil to cattle and cotton to sell to you for profit, except you couldn't afford it because our revenue would no longer be taxable by the U.S. so we would give you micro loans and make you modern day Iraq's and yesteryear Venezuela's instead of breaking our backs to brace yours through federal subsidies and entitlement programs like we do now.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    I know this is an old post but FTR most native Texans have desired independence for generations, regardless of who is in the white house. Obama may have sparked the petition in question but he wasn't the root of Texas' enthusiasm for the idea. We still celebrate Texas Independence Day, have a "national" beer, associate with the lone star ideology et cetera.

    And on a more serious note, an economic analysis has shown that as an independent nation we would be the 11th wealthiest, much higher up than the US as a whole, especially with our resources out of the equation. International shipping ports, OPEC oil numbers, farming and agriculture, multiple universities et cetera. Most of us don't agree with current politics and the direction they are taking us at the federal level and would love to "take our ball and go home".

    The ****ed up thing is that people are running en masse from home states with failed economies to ours where the job, housing, retail et cetera markets are strong, but instead of accepting our obviously superior policies and ideologies, they bring their failed bull**** to us and try to apply political pressure here to bring about socio-economic changes they are used too. Then when they encounter significant resistence they bash Texas as backwards while reaping the benefits of Texas their familiar ideologies can't produce.

    Step in line or let us go!
    you guys wouldnt last a year with out the us government, just the fact that your a border state to mexico would make this a huge problem.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    you guys wouldnt last a year with out the us government, just the fact that your a border state to mexico would make this a huge problem.
    Except the US govt is the border control hold up. We have absolutely every facet of infrastructure necessary to stand alone and the resources to do it debt free while accumulating powerful allies and playing others out on trade deficits.

  15. The fact that our country has become such a f***ed up socialist state kills me every day. My take on this is put all the politicians on minimum wage and take all their benefits. Eliminate welfare , food stamps and all the "support the lazy" program.

    Our country needs to stop taxing the F**k out of us to give our money to a high school drop out or worst an illegal.

    Trash me all you want for my views but I have lived out side of the USA in country were the government does not support laziness, guess what their taxes are lower and their government does not impose on their rights. Don't get me wrong I love my country, but I hate they way it runs and every day it gets worse.

    I would love for just one state to leave the union and implement the gold standard just to see if people will wake up.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post

    Except the US govt is the border control hold up. We have absolutely every facet of infrastructure necessary to stand alone and the resources to do it debt free while accumulating powerful allies and playing others out on trade deficits.
    I would bet that isn't true. There is so much you haven't even thought of it isn't funny.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    I would bet that isn't true. There is so much you haven't even thought of it isn't funny.
    Ok, you win.

  18. No common sense wins, not me.

  19. http://www.examiner.com/article/coul...-facts-say-yes
    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    No common sense wins, nhttp://www.examiner.com/article/could-an-independent-texas-survive-economically-the-facts-say-yest me.
    Unfortunately we will never know who actually wins. From an economic stand point, http://www.examiner.com/article/coul...-facts-say-yes we could certainly pull it off. Militarily we wouldn't be the smallest army in the world and we are certainly armed. The US slapping an embargo on us is bull****. Our balls would be sucked harder than Saudi Arabias. We own not only huge oil reserves but nearly the entire refinery system for the US. Some of the most prominent defense contractors are located here and we are home to more fortune 500 hq's than any other state thanks to favorable tax environments, giving us leverage to pull the trade strings.

    Sure there are plenty of variables but it wouldn't be the first time a new and resource rich nation formed and flourished against establishment odds.

    This article is not a conclusive secession success plan by any means but makes some interesting discussion points from an economic perspective: well my phone is forcing the link in to the text.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by MIGUEL1J View Post
    The fact that our country has become such a f***ed up socialist state kills me every day. My take on this is put all the politicians on minimum wage and take all their benefits. Eliminate welfare , food stamps and all the "support the lazy" program.

    Our country needs to stop taxing the F**k out of us to give our money to a high school drop out or worst an illegal.

    Trash me all you want for my views but I have lived out side of the USA in country were the government does not support laziness, guess what their taxes are lower and their government does not impose on their rights. Don't get me wrong I love my country, but I hate they way it runs and every day it gets worse.

    I would love for just one state to leave the union and implement the gold standard just to see if people will wake up.
    Yea I just met an illegal who got back $9,000 in income tax. Now how is that. And Texas guy i like how you think.

  21. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/69072.html

    Comments down there suggest Texas got 6.4 BILLION dollars from the stimulus as well in direct cash payments. Make no mistake about it Texas is hardly the rebel state not having the federal gov't do anything to help it out and beacon of economic freedom.

    Still, they are just doing what everyone else does. But secession? Yeah that comes up all the time since we started this country. Someone call me when it isn't fancy dancy hyptheticals or some people signing a petition. The left wasn't serious about moving to Canada if Bush won in 04 and the right isn't serious about leaving the country now that we re-elected Obama. No matter how passionately they threatened.
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/69072.html

    Comments down there suggest Texas got 6.4 BILLION dollars from the stimulus as well in direct cash payments. Make no mistake about it Texas is hardly the rebel state not having the federal gov't do anything to help it out and beacon of economic freedom.

    Still, they are just doing what everyone else does. But secession? Yeah that comes up all the time since we started this country. Someone call me when it isn't fancy dancy hyptheticals or some people signing a petition. The left wasn't serious about moving to Canada if Bush won in 04 and the right isn't serious about leaving the country now that we re-elected Obama. No matter how passionately they threatened.
    Except in our case, an economic surplus, we are just getting some of our money back, while the rest of our wealth was "re-distributed" elsewhere.

    A number of posters point to Texas as a member of an economically weak union which is inaccurate in the case of a secession. No, we wouldn't be eligible for aid but then we wouldn't be paying federal taxes either. Autonomy is the argument and our economy would have to be viewed from a completely autonomous stand point.

    Our oil industry alone makes 6.4 billion look like a days work and that wealth concentrated within our borders, along with the tech, defense, health care, agricultural and chemical industries that we don't recieve credit for would show a completely different economic landscape in an independent Texas than being a big tit for a struggling country to suck from as we are now.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Except in our case, an economic surplus, we are just getting some of our money back, while the rest of our wealth was "re-distributed" elsewhere.

    A number of posters point to Texas as a member of an economically weak union which is inaccurate in the case of a secession. No, we wouldn't be eligible for aid but then we wouldn't be paying federal taxes either. Autonomy is the argument and our economy would have to be viewed from a completely autonomous stand point.

    Our oil industry alone makes 6.4 billion look like a days work and that wealth concentrated within our borders, along with the tech, defense, health care, agricultural and chemical industries that we don't recieve credit for would show a completely different economic landscape in an independent Texas than being a big tit for a struggling country to suck from as we are now.
    Again, call me when this actually happens. If Texas is REALLY going to be that much better off what exactly are you guys waiting on again?

    This has 0 chance of happening and is nothing but a fairy tale fun hypothetical to play with. By all means play on. It was fun watching the left pretend they were actually getting up and getting out after Bush won in 04 and it's fun to watch the right discuss it now. I would bet ANY sum of money possible Texas is a state in the United States for the rest of your lifetime.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Again, call me when this actually happens. If Texas is REALLY going to be that much better off what exactly are you guys waiting on again?

    This has 0 chance of happening and is nothing but a fairy tale fun hypothetical to play with. By all means play on. It was fun watching the left pretend they were actually getting up and getting out after Bush won in 04 and it's fun to watch the right discuss it now. I would bet ANY sum of money possible Texas is a state in the United States for the rest of your lifetime.
    No ****

  25. Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    No ****
    You said let us go as if the rest of the country was holding you hostage. If you feel so strongly about seceding perhaps it's time to get the rest of the people in the state on board?
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  26. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    You said let us go as if the rest of the country was holding you hostage. If you feel so strongly about seceding perhaps it's time to get the rest of the people in the state on board?
    It's a conversation about a hypothetical scenario Texans have tossed around in varying ranges of seriousness since loooong before Obama, which was my original point to the thread.

    "Texas will again lift its head and stand among the nations. It ought to do so, for no country on the globe can compare with it in natural resources."

    Sam Houston said that. A Texas revolutionist, a president of the nation of Texas and a guy who wanted an independent Texas in the 1800's post annexation. We hadn't even discovered oil yet.

    If I could hop on a horse and rally support you can believe I would and we have had candidates for high state offices run with secession in their platform in the not too distant past. Our standing governer has mentioned it only half jokingly.

    One major problem is that much of our population consists of people from other states (and always has) who have run here en masse in the last ten years especially for our prosperity and who would never consider leaving the nation.

    Another is a very large hispanic population with illegal cousins and uncles who would fear a Texas gov't would be less friendly on illegal immigration than a state under federal pressure to look the other way. These legal hispanics would vote in the millions to stay with the US to protect their illegal counter parts.

    I'm not debating the practicality of seceding itself, only discussing the fact that yes, we could stand alone given the opportunity and that this isn't an Obama inspired, knee jerk idea. At least not for us. "Lonestar" is the subculture for natives here and always has been. If I was actually asking the US gov't to let us go, it wouldn't be on a random bodybuilding sub-forum, it's just a discussion.

  27. NM not worth it.

  28. TG has made very valid points ITT.

    As a Texas Native I can attest to the fact that the idea of an independent Texas is not recent. People have been discussing the idea since I was in grade school (and longer I'm sure).

  29. Quote Originally Posted by MightyBeast View Post

    Yea I just met an illegal who got back $9,000 in income tax. Now how is that. And Texas guy i like how you think.
    Mightybeast are your pulling my chain I'm so disappointed I have to pay a sh*t load mind you that my wife and I were taxed to death through payroll income. Smh she probably gets foodstamps welfare and that free phone they give out how the heck is this possible 9000$.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    TG has made very valid points ITT.

    As a Texas Native I can attest to the fact that the idea of an independent Texas is not recent. People have been discussing the idea since I was in grade school (and longer I'm sure).
    FWIW I was never trying to say he didn't make valid points, merely that the discussion won't come to fruition. Texas vs. White took place in 1869. 144 years later and Texas still isn't going anywhere. My facebook was flooded with people who threatened to move if Obama won re-election to another country. They are still sitting on their fat asses. The idea of how well off they would be if they did is fine to play around with or whatever, but states aren't going anywhere just like people aren't. The left didn't run off in droves after 2004 despite claiming they would and the right isn't going anywhere either no matter how much Obama pisses them off.

    Texas indeed has a long independent history, maybe more than any other state and that sense of state pride maybe more than any other state. That much is not up for debate. But Texas isn't going anywhere. And neither is any other state.
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