College vs Trade School or nothing at all....

[Distilled Water]

Last week at work I found myself all alone in a debate about what kids should be looking to do after high school. To paint the picture I work at a precision machine shop. Majority of the workers are "un-skilled" they dont have a high school degree or if they do have their GED, its because of state mandated program that they have to "go to school" to continue to receive their welfare. If any do have college courses, they received it via this same program or while they were incarcerated.

Many have kids about the age where its time to decide what they will be doing when high school is over. A number of people said that going to college was a waste.They try and use me as an example because I have my B.S. in History and I work at a machine shop, however I am part of management and was made so after 90 days of being an operator. They dont know how much money I make because I think its unprofessional to do that, but they make it known what they make. I make more money than they do and many have been there for 3+ years and are still operators. I so badly want to use this as an example but never will. It's a prime example of why a college degree gets you places but they can't see the picture.

The others think trade school is the way to go, because it can place you in a job sooner. I dont think thats a bad idea because college isn't for everyone. I tried making the argument that when the economy is down, everyone is down. I see trade school as being a short term gain, but perhaps not a long term. Like college can be. Something else I said was the physicality of work, some trades are physically demanding jobs. Some love it, but it takes a toll on them later in life vs someone who doesnt have the physical toll and makes the same amount. I equate the latter with more long term gain.

Am I missing something here? Im open for discussion but I just can't see how telling your child not to go to school can be good. My parents drilled education on me and I am pretty successful vs my younger brother who was left to meander with whatever, almost didnt finish high school and is a drug addicted loser. We were both raised in the same house hold and given the same opportunities, I guess I just took advantage. My brother is also of the thought that college is useless.....

Curious as to others opinions because I know there is a fair amount of older guys on here who are more rich in life experience than myself. Been there, done that and would like to talk about it.

 

[mls51112]

trade school, hands down.

 

[Distilled Water]

trade school, hands down.

Whats your reasoning for that?

 

[mls51112]

Whats your reasoning for that?

most young men want a job where they get paid to sit on their @ss.. there is a demand for strong, young men to do laborous, hands-on work.. skilled/trade is the way to go until the economy gets better.

 

[Distilled Water]

most young men want a job where they get paid to sit on their @ss.. there is a demand for strong, young men to do laborous, hands-on work.. skilled/trade is the way to go until the economy gets better.

That's the reasoning I used, trade school until the economy is better. The tricky part now is, when is that going to be? Again goes back to short term vs long term. Either way trade school or college is a better option than nothing, which some were advocating. :eyeroll:

 

[retrofitted]

Poor economy or not, trade school is never a better option than college. And university educated people don't necessarily want a job where they can "sit on their asses" as someone asserted above. That's a hideous criticism to levy against a proper education.

 

[Distilled Water]

Poor economy or not, trade school is never a better option than college. And university educated people don't necessarily want a job where they can "sit on their asses" as someone asserted above. That's a hideous criticism to levy against a proper education.

Most I know who went to trade school were placed while still in school. I'd agree there's probably a faster turn around with trade school during poor economic times. A number of college educated friends don't have jobs in their fields, probably a 7:3 ratio for do:don't. I'm in the 3 but make as much money as the 7. The other 2 may also, idk. All are employed though, but not full time.

The short v. long term is also potential earnings. University degrees, generally have a higher earning potential than trade school.

 

[RicFlair]

Totally depends on the individual and his or her skills, aspirations, intellect, family background. He can't paint with broad brush strokes on this topic.

 

[Distilled Water]

Totally depends on the individual and his or her skills, aspirations, intellect, family background. He can't paint with broad brush strokes on this topic.

Yes, that's a practical application but what about one that has no real direction? Parents didn't finish high school, now their parents aren't really giving direction and saying "I didn't graduate HS, I make $25k/yr why should my son/daughter bother. It's not going to help them out much"

Does this person have a valid argument ^^^?

 

[RicFlair]

If its a kid just headed for a low end food service job or something similar that doesn't provide a living wage then hell yeah trade school is a good option.

 

[mls51112]

If its a kid just headed for a low end food service job or something similar that doesn't provide a living wage then hell yeah trade school is a good option.

that's a little uncalled for and rude.. and not true in most cases.

 

[RicFlair]

that's a little uncalled for and rude.. and not true in most cases.

Unsure on why you think this is uncalled for or rude. I was simply answering his question with my personal opinion on when I feel trade school is a the correct option.

 

[RicFlair]

Another thing we forget is that we live pretty long lives and career changes happen, so leaning a trade doesn't lock someone into that career for life, they could certainly peruse a traditional college degree once they've made some money in the trade.

 

[Distilled Water]

that's a little uncalled for and rude.. and not true in most cases.

I don't think he was trying to be rude. I also don't think he's saying trade school is a poor option. Just a college degree > trade school.

Is this the correct analogy....
Nothing = Ice cream cup
Trade school = ice cream cup filled with ice cream
College = ice cream cup filled with ice cream & toppings

 

[RicFlair]

I wouldn't even say college is always better. Like I said it depends on a handful of variables. The idea of college for all sounds good but isn't always the ideal option. Sending a kid who cannot read and write critically with little direction is just going to create a drop out with debt.

 

[Distilled Water]

I wouldn't even say college is always better. Like I said it depends on a handful of variables. The idea of college for all sounds good but isn't always the ideal option. Sending a kid who cannot read and write critically with little direction is just going to create a drop out with debt.

Yeah, sorry. I thought that was implied by earlier statement. A kid like that, college is a set up for failure.

 

[ThunderHumper]

your workers have typical welfare thinking. and this will sound harsh but i dont really give a fuk. they were raised to accept welfare and by nt giving their kids any direction, they are taching them the same thinking. after all, why work to get more than 25k/year if the govrnment is going to pay for you to live at a low wage?

it goes in this order no doubt. college > trade > nothing. whoever is puting up an argument for trade school is being stupid. good luck in construction/electrician/plumbing/welding/blah blah lah. my dad took that route, and **** was fine and dandy up until now. people arnt hiring out of those areas anymore. a degree on the other hand lasts you a life time and gives security incase something happens financialy. what if youre hurt on the job and cant do your trade anymore? well, now youre pretty much useless. this goes even more so for a science/math degree of any kind.

and dont play the science/math isnt for everyone card. those can be applied to literally every job you an think of, just depends what field youre interested in.

and like stated earlier, its not for everyone. if someone cant bother to keep up with a few classes because they cant read, write or add, they wont make it far in a trade either. then they should be on welfare and disability because they are mostly useless anyways. theres almost nothing seperating someone like that from an animal

 

[RicFlair]

The physical demands of the jobs provided through trade school are certainly a quality of life issue to be raised. Knowledge economy type jobs in the STEM (science, technology, math, engineering) where you most likely have more autonomy and do not face the physical demands most likely produce a prolonged quality of life on addition to higher salary. As prolonging the age of social security eligibility becomes a way to control the deficit this point becomes even more salient.

 

[mls51112]

Unsure on why you think this is uncalled for or rude. I was simply answering his question with my personal opinion on when I feel trade school is a the correct option.

I read the reply wrong.. pardon my postnatal retardation, haha. sorry!

 

[RicFlair]

I read the reply wrong.. pardon my postnatal retardation, haha. sorry!

I would never disparage anyone for attempting to improve their life regardless.

 

[airram479]

College. I pays in the long run. I wish my parents would have pushed me and my siblings harder to pursue this avenue, but their mentality was all blue-collar, union way of thinking, nothing wrong with that, but in 2012....im sure you get the picture. Im coming up on 34 years old and have no college at all and to be honest...i regret not going this route. The only advice i can give is think of the future, and where a demand is going to be.

 

[DerickVonD]

College. I pays in the long run. I wish my parents would have pushed me and my siblings harder to pursue this avenue, but their mentality was all blue-collar, union way of thinking, nothing wrong with that, but in 2012....im sure you get the picture. Im coming up on 34 years old and have no college at all and to be honest...i regret not going this route. The only advice i can give is think of the future, and where a demand is going to be.

I've been in college for 5 years...yes that's right 5 years in community college. Why 5 years you may ask, well I have bad ADHD so I can only take 2 classes at once and since you have to take all these **** unrelated classes it takes long. I was pushed to go to college by family. Sort of a well you need to work or go to school, so I picked college. I changed my major 3 times and now I'm just going for general education. I have 1 or two semesters left and honestly I feel I wasted my time. Really I would have went to get a job, but honestly I am afraid to work in something I can't enjoy. I had one job my whole life and it sucked. I have anxiety and anger issues and I am afraid if I don't enjoy the job I'll just quite, which happened at the job I used to work. If I have weed in my system I'm fine, but hey they drug test for that.

 

[RicFlair]

I've been in college for 5 years...yes that's right 5 years in community college. Why 5 years you may ask, well I have bad ADHD so I can only take 2 classes at once and since you have to take all these **** unrelated classes it takes long. I was pushed to go to college by family. Sort of a well you need to work or go to school, so I picked college. I changed my major 3 times and now I'm just going for general education. I have 1 or two semesters left and honestly I feel I wasted my time. Really I would have went to get a job, but honestly I am afraid to work in something I can't enjoy. I had one job my whole life and it sucked. I have anxiety and anger issues and I am afraid if I don't enjoy the job I'll just quite, which happened at the job I used to work. If I have weed in my system I'm fine, but hey they drug test for that.

You need to talk to a behavioral counselor specializing in ADHD. There's no shame in that dude, we hit the gym to improve our bodies and there are professionals out there to help us improve the way we think and our relationship and use of our emotions. It's the gym for your mental state.

 

[DerickVonD]

You need to talk to a behavioral counselor specializing in ADHD. There's no shame in that dude, we hit the gym to improve our bodies and there are professionals out there to help us improve the way we think and our relationship and use of our emotions. It's the gym for your mental state.

I'm not in the program anymore, there was a program through college I was in for that, but I basically got kicked out because I stopped going to the meetings.

 

[RicFlair]

I'm not in the program anymore, there was a program through college I was in for that, but I basically got kicked out because I stopped going to the meetings.

Do you have a general practitioner doc? If you have insurance get a referral. On college campus you can usually talk to someone for free, usually a psych or social work grad student.

 

[mw1]

I personally think college is the best option...regardless of what your degreeis in you will always have more opportunities. I have a good friend that went to work at the Atl Federal Pen. a couple years after HS. He worked as a correction officer while going to school. Upon graduation he got a teaching job at the prison(and certified as hostage negotiator) making about 40% more from day one. He makes right at 100k a year now with bonuses and OT. His benifits and pension are unreal while the guys he started with are still pretty much making the same.
IF you really dont think college is for you then a trade school can be very choice IF you pick the right field. It doesnt surprise me that you are looking into other options. While cnc operators/machinists can make good money at some places , it is generally a disatisfying job due to the lack of advancement and the repititious work

 

[liquid]

It depends, personally I feel that trade school in my area can't help much.

I went this route A.A., B.A.(did not complete, and worked), trade school, going in for B.A. in a different field. It depends on how much time you can put away, for me, its about patience.
Also working and studying tax my time/energy, but I feel that it better with a degree overall.

Sent from tapatalk

 

[ponysteak]

[video=youtube;hcC3cEuXIVI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcC3cEuXIVI[/video]

 

[JoeySon]

All I know is I'm going to a community college and getting two separate associate degrees. There is no way my family could of afforded to send me to a university and I'm glad try didn't in a way. My girlfriend comes from a wealthier family and she went to the university of Albany and now has 27k dollars in debt.

I guess my point is some people simply can't afford a university so that's when community college or a trade school makes sense.

 

[RicFlair]

All I know is I'm going to a community college and getting two separate associate degrees. There is no way my family could of afforded to send me to a university and I'm glad try didn't in a way. My girlfriend comes from a wealthier family and she went to the university of Albany and now has 27k dollars in debt.

I guess my point is some people simply can't afford a university so that's when community college or a trade school makes sense.

Community college can also be a great jumping off point to university. Even if you're HS grades were not great if you put in effort and get a high GPA you open yourself up to more scholarship and grant money for university, plus yore halfway there for like a quarter of the cost.

 

[Distilled Water]

All I know is I'm going to a community college and getting two separate associate degrees. There is no way my family could of afforded to send me to a university and I'm glad try didn't in a way. My girlfriend comes from a wealthier family and she went to the university of Albany and now has 27k dollars in debt.

I guess my point is some people simply can't afford a university so that's when community college or a trade school makes sense.

That's a big where you lie factor. In the south and out west, public university are DIRT cheap. Midwest & northeast, way different.

I started at a community college (mostly baseball reasons) but in would advise a lot of people that route, saves a good chunk of change and let's you get general Ed out of the way. It was easier for me to focus on classes for my major and at the 4yr, that's what I mostly had and I saw a huge jump in GPA

 

[mich29]

go to school but get on the job training and experience as much as you can.I know a kid who has a job that normally requires a bs but since he had prior experience at 2 other big companies they hired him without one all he has is high school diploma.