Do our GI's earn enough????

[Dr of Golf]

I know this is long but I think its worth reading.


Subject: Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise(s) coming

I think this Airman's response to the Washington Times should be printed in all newspapers cross America. Especially now when the President is calling up more Reserves and National Guardsman. Get this response out to everyone you know. It's time the Jane Fonda's & Shaun Penn's, and Cindy Williams' of this country wise up and support the troops that defend them.
Noel Pritzl 1st Vice President USDR

Military pay article...............

On 12 Nov, Ms Cindy Williams (from Laverne and Shirley TV show) wrote a piece for the Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise(s) coming servicemembers' way this year -- citing that the stated 13% wage was more than they deserve. A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below. He ought to get a bonus for this!

"Ms Williams:
I just had the pleasure of reading your column, "Our GIs earn enough" and I am a bit confused. Frankly, I'm wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and my bank account. Checking my latest leave and earnings statement (LES), I see that I make $1,117.80 before taxes. After taxes, I take home $874.20. When I run that through Windows' Calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40 after.

I work in the Air Force Network Control Center (AFNCC), where I am part of the team responsible for the administration of a 5,000-host computer network. I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment. A quick check under jobs for Network Technicians in the Washington, D.C. area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years experience with my job. Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year, nor does it pay less than this. No, this job is be ing offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum. I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusions.

Also, you tout increases to Basic Allowance for Housing and Basic Allowance for Subsistence (housing and food allowances, respectively) as being a further boon to an already overcompensated force. Again, I'm curious as to where this money has gone, as BAH and BAS were both slashed 15% in the Hill AFB area effective in January 00. Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you have NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in her armed forces. Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military's lowest pay brackets off AFDC, WIC, and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN, I leave the choice of service branch up to you. Whatever choice you make, though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience ." As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones.

Also take care to note that several families are still unsure of how they'll be able to make ends meet while the primary breadwinner is gone -- obviously they've been squandering the vast piles of cash the DOD has been giving them. Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites. And when you're actually over there, sitting in a DFP (Defensive Fire Position, the modern-day foxhole), shivering against the cold desert night; and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren't enough people on shift to relieve you for chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE (meal-ready-to-eat) you manage to get for the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything. This gives some flavor. Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won't nearly be long enough or often e nough, but take what you can get and be thankful for
it.

You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your op-ed piece. But, tomorrow from KABUL, I will defend to the death your right to say it.
You see, I am an American fighting man, a guarantor of your First Amendment rights and every other right you cherish. On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective nose at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that would make most people cringe. We hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can't offer the stability and pay of civilian companies. And you, Ms Williams, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve?
Rubbish!
A1C Michael Bragg, Hill AFB AFNCC"



THIS LETTER SHOULD BE APPLAUDED BY ANYONE WHO'S EVER SERVED OR HAD A FAMILY MEMBER SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES! THIS YOUNG MAN DESERVES A MEDAL!

 

[Matthew D]

I agree with him whole heartedly.. I really think that we should keep the pay increases going to the soldiers..

 

[DarCSA]

Always cover your ass because you never know who will come up behind you and try to **** you in it.

 

[Patuba]

I think GIs should be paid more but then again if they live on the base there is no living expenses. I know I could work for a lot less if I didn't have to pay rent!

 

[Milo Hobgoblin]

I hate to sound mean

but half of the GI's out there are uneducated, barely literate retards.

They will never see combat and did not join the military to defend this country. They did it because they couldnt get a job back in Inbred texas or whatever redneck state their from.

and yes I was in the military and all I could think of the whole four years was how fucking stupid most of the people I worked for/with were. I got out and went to college as soon as I could. Molecular biology was such a happier place.

These guys dont need more money... they need more education and they need to raise the MINIMUM age to enlist to 21. Let them mature a little and find out something about the world before they go sign up. The military is NOT the way to see the world.

And for those that cant get a job... the last place we want you is defending our country... if you're too fucking stupid to get a job at 7-11 and go to community college at night... you're DEFINITELY too fucking stupid to drive a tank.

BTW if the guys writing that crap have a problem with money. DONT GET FUCKING MARRIED!!!

 

[Matthew D]

Milo... I don't know what Army you served in but the guys I served with were very educated.. I would say half had college educations and we had some that had master's degrees. Yes I was in the Army and in the infantry for the whole 5 years. Yes there are stupid people there but at the same time there are some extremely bright people there.
I am EXTREMELY SORRY that you time in the miitary was not to your likely. As for the people that join from southern states.. yes, some times it is because we couldn't get a job but most of the time it was a combination of that and a loyality to our country. Something that SOME states have not done as well at compared to the southern states.

 

[msclbldrguy]

thanks for sending this along. i agree with ya...and this airman...i, for one, am really thankful we have our military...and all the ones i've known are pretty sharp folks..

 

[Milo Hobgoblin]

...

People in the Army and USMC were the worst. They will take just about anyone.

the only service Id say is worth a **** is the Air Force... and thats only because they provide adequate (barely) living conditions for their people.

The Navy would be okay but their officers are the worst.

My entire life from the time I was born revolved around the military. I grew up on military bases on Guam and then enlisted in the Marine Corp when I was 17.

The enlisted ranks do not need more money at the lower ranks. ONCE they become Staff NCO's then they should be eligible for a large pay raise.

Officers make WAY WAY too much money. And there are way too many of them. The military should reduce its entire officer corp by 50% and spent more time educating their staff NCO's.

The Germans proved time and time again that enlisted personnel were very capable flyers and managers if given the proper education and training. Until Hitler fucked up strategically they had the most efficient military in history.

they relied heavily upon NCO's. So does the Isreali military... another one of the most successful militaries in history.

 

[Matthew D]

Thanks for you input Milo... you contribution was greatly appreciated

 

[YellowJacket]

Umm.....why pay them? They're already slaves to this bullshit country and the communist government, they should just be happy they're getting paid anything at all

 

[Chemo]

Serious discussion, gentlemen...and one I take to heart. As most around here know I spent my formative years in the Army as a medic. While other 18 year olds were at college smoking dope and living off mommy and daddy I was married and spending all expense paid summers in Thailand for that fucking annual Cobra Gold dealing with 2-steps and spiders that eat birds. Although we were thrifty with our expenses and could get by I would see my closest bros (in the military the word "bros" means something still) spending food stamps in the commissary.

What can be done to solve the problem instead of applying a huge bandaid that is welfare? Force education and job skill training! This is the intent of the recent welfare reform introduced by Clinton. It places a limit on welfare to 5 years and in this time the recipient has to either get trained or fend for themselves. This works in the civilian sector but what about the military setting? Everyone knows that the CO is suppose to afford time to attend class but this is not always practical. The true benefits come after ETS and attending college full time (GI Bill, State Directive, etc.). After leaving active duty I gathered what little credit I earned and applied it to my transcripts...35 hours of college credit off the bat! After I graduated my commission was earned and I applied myself to the fullest implementing a new state directive of FULL TIME TUITION REIMBURSEMENT in the Commonwealth of Kentucky. I am now a Captain getting my command time but my focus is getting my young soldiers trained in a trade or institute of higher learning (easily done in a reserve setting).

This went a bit off topic but I believe the problem of skewed salary between the civilian sector and our military bretheren is compensated by the educational benefits later. As I told my wife some 11 years ago, "it is better to suffer for the first few years and reap the benefits for life."

Chemo

 

[Matthew D]

Good Post Chemo.. totally agree with you

 

[YellowJacket]

Good Post Chemo.. totally agree with you

 

[Matthew D]

Nope not really.. I did time in the Army too YJ..

 

[ex_banana-eater]

Guys I had dreams of joining the military right out of high school and getting work and good training right away. Ive already gone to engineering courses through cadets, etc so I predict I would stick out of the crowd. Anyway I've been really afraid because of bodybuilding. I am afraid I will lose tonnes of muscle during this. Will I? All the camps I have gone to you only get to eat 3 times a day. And there is no time to go back and have a shake ever. And they usually give you like negative 2 minutes to eat lunch because the busses come so early. So I dunno.. should i?

 

[ironviking]

I spent six years in the army and I was locked out from becoming an NCO becauase the points were maxed out so dont talk about training the NCO's better to get more pay. Before I got out ALL NCO's were telling me I'll never get a job "out there" and if I do I'll never make as much while in. Well I make about 4 times as much than I would if I was still in and I have better benefits. Milo it is a shame that you spent your tour with idiots but most of the people I met in the Army were intelligent, yes there were the idiots that would rather buy beer than food for thier kids but that was the exception and not the norm. My brother is still in the Air Force, he is an E-7 now and his family qualifies for FOOD STAMPS AND WIC. That is not the way our military families should be living. THEY DONT GET PAID ENOUGH. I could ramble on but its time for me to go home to my nice warm king size bed and not a shelter half in the fucking rain. Remember that when you are at home.

 

[windwords7]

They need more money period. I am so sick and tired of the Military getting the shaft because liberals believe that its an "uncessary" expense. Unlike the movies depiction, most officers are fantastic leaders, intelligent, and worth every penny. As with any "orginization" there are always bad eggs but its foolish to act like they are incompetent or invaluable. NCO's should be paid more no questions asked. If I could do it all over again I would have gone in ONLY as an officer where I could command a unit and, regardless of any circumstance, pursue excellence in every way!

 

[msclbldrguy]

They need more money period. I am so sick and tired of the Military getting the shaft because liberals believe that its an "uncessary" expense. Unlike the movies depiction, most officers are fantastic leaders, intelligent, and worth every penny. As with any "orginization" there are always bad eggs but its foolish to act like they are incompetent or invaluable. NCO's should be paid more no questions asked. If I could do it all over again I would have gone in ONLY as an officer where I could command a unit and, regardless of any circumstance, pursue excellence in every way!

well, here i go on my rant. its not unlike teacher pay...it seems to me somethings really wrong when we pay our military practically nuthin to provide a way of life most of us enjoy...teahcers get paid jack and in many instances put their lives on the line in certain situations...but we pay professional athletes astronomical salaries to play a game....it just doesnt makes sense. I mean I enjoy sports as much as anyone (esp football) but its still just a game or race or whatever. It just doesnt compare to the worth of maybe helping point some kid in the right direction or providing a little safer world for us all....even the french.

ok...rants over

 

[windwords7]

Originally posted by msclbldrguy


well, here i go on my rant. its not unlike teacher pay...it seems to me somethings really wrong when we pay our military practically nuthin to provide a way of life most of us enjoy...teahcers get paid jack and in many instances put their lives on the line in certain situations...but we pay professional athletes astronomical salaries to play a game....it just doesnt makes sense. I mean I enjoy sports as much as anyone (esp football) but its still just a game or race or whatever. It just doesnt compare to the worth of maybe helping point some kid in the right direction or providing a little safer world for us all....even the french.

ok...rants over

I agree. Teachers, military, cops should all be paid more. As to the sports issue, they are self-sustaining for profit buisness. It's not their responsibility to pay for govt. or schools any more than it is Bill Gate's responsibility. Schools should be ran as for profit buisnesses as well.

 

[msclbldrguy]

I agree. Teachers, military, cops should all be paid more. As to the sports issue, they are self-sustaining for profit buisness. It's not their responsibility to pay for govt. or schools any more than it is Bill Gate's responsibility. Schools should be ran as for profit buisnesses as well.

true enough...i was just meaning in a general sense that we seem to put more emphasis on things like sports than school and its a shame when sports figures are paid huge sums of money and our military folks cant seem to make it without food stamps. but i got off topic to illustrate my point..sorry.

 

[Matthew D]

I appreaciate you guys thinking that teachers should get paid more.. just wish it was so.. but to comment on the for profit business.. how do you assess the outcome of the company.. the number of kids that walk through the building? or what about the kids that are just there because they are made to come? I wish it was that easy to make them for profit but most people do not understand how much that teacher put into the teaching of their students, both money wise and time wise, only to have the student not hold up their end of the bargin and not do what is required of them.. then the parents come and blame the teacher for not teaching.. okay sorry I am off on a rant.

 

[windwords7]

I am simply stating that the schools need to live at a budget that is under their total revenue. As to the kid that does not perform, if it can be demonstrated that the kid was in all the same classes, with all the same personal tutoring, and is still failing; his failure can not be leveled against the teacher in any way. If 50 kids learn and one doesen't, in the same class, then either the kid is choosing not to learn or they have disability that prevents them from learning in that method. Either way that kid no longer belongs in that setting. Parents or no, its time to put the responsibility to learn back on the kids, not the teachers.

 

[Matthew D]

Thanks wind. I totally agree with that statment about putting the responsiblity on the kids.. what I would like at my school would be parents that actually cared if their kid learn by doing something if the kid is not doing what they are supposed to.. ie turning in their homework..
Also I like the idea of personal tutoring just wish we could do it.

 

[msclbldrguy]

Thanks wind. I totally agree with that statment about putting the responsiblity on the kids.. what I would like at my school would be parents that actually cared if their kid learn by doing something if the kid is not doing what they are supposed to.. ie turning in their homework..
Also I like the idea of personal tutoring just wish we could do it.

but, dude, its sooo much easier to blame the teachers, schools, etc...

here i go again....i jus dont understand why the idea of responsibility is sooo foreign to folks nowadays. i mean helllooo....i still go to alot of football and basketball games where i went to high school. one thing i noticed is that schools that have good turnouts for their games are as a rule the schools that have the highest achieving students. its not because the school has a great athletic program but because parents, teachers, etc care enough to support their kids. they do the same in the academic realm also. saddest sight i saw was a footbal game we played where the opposing team had maybe 20 or 30 folks there to support 'em...i felt sooo sorry for those kids..no one cared enough..nowonder alot of kids are failing.

 

[ex_banana-eater]

but, dude, its sooo much easier to blame the teachers, schools, etc...

here i go again....i jus dont understand why the idea of responsibility is sooo foreign to folks nowadays. i mean helllooo....i still go to alot of football and basketball games where i went to high school. one thing i noticed is that schools that have good turnouts for their games are as a rule the schools that have the highest achieving students. its not because the school has a great athletic program but because parents, teachers, etc care enough to support their kids. they do the same in the academic realm also. saddest sight i saw was a footbal game we played where the opposing team had maybe 20 or 30 folks there to support 'em...i felt sooo sorry for those kids..no one cared enough..nowonder alot of kids are failing.

its the parents. the worst possible people always seem to have kids. the ones addicted to drugs always get pregnant in their teens. they raise the child in a bad environment and during those developmental stages the child builds its foundation for life.

 

[Dr of Golf]

its the parents. the worst possible people always seem to have kids. the ones addicted to drugs always get pregnant in their teens. they raise the child in a bad environment and during those developmental stages the child builds its foundation for life.

VERY well said, ex_banana-eater, and so darn true.

 

[82nd Airborne]

Milo Hobgoblin,
You say the enlisted are uneducated. You also think that those who join, are to fing stupid to get a job at 7/11, and definitely too fing stupid to drive a tank. Since you enlisted, you realize you just said that you were to fing stupid to get a job and to fing stupid to drive a tank. You sound like you have served in every branch, with your extensive knowledge and criticism of all four. Your actually an uninformed freaking moron. If you did your homework, you would have found out that the military of the last 30 years has been the best educated to date.
I don't know what dumbass unit or units you served in, but I was an enlisted man, and the education I got through the Army's NBC schools and the J-5 school, prepared me well enough to start at a master's degree level position in the environmental field. Yes, and I served in the very stupid Army. My experience was very different from yours, maybe because I chose to actually challenge myself. I earned my Airborne wings, and went to the 82nd Airborne Division for 3 years, and then I got J-5 school and went to the Technical Escort Unit. You've probably never heard of TCU, because our missions were top secret. Maybe if you had chosen to educate yourself in the military, instead of tearing it down, you would have seen how intelligent our military is.
Fools that can talk garbage about the military, without providing positive smart solutions, is just another Big Mouth Idiot.

 

[PrepNwa23]

Maybe I'm a bit biased and rightfully so cause I'm in the Air Force currently. I love serving my country and i put on my uniform with pride. But we are vastly under paid when you compare some of our jobs with the civilian world. There is a reason lots of people get out after they serve there contract cause you can get a really good job out there in the civilian sector. Honestly the only way you make a good chunk of money is deploying these days, that's where we get most of our incentive pays and allowances. I just don't know why people think we make a lot of money, as an enlisted Air Force we don't make a whole lot. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i respect her's, but i think she is wrong. But its her right to criticize things, and me and my fellow brothers will keep that right of her's around.

 

[Dr of Golf]

Maybe I'm a bit biased and rightfully so cause I'm in the Air Force currently. I love serving my country and i put on my uniform with pride. But we are vastly under paid when you compare some of our jobs with the civilian world. There is a reason lots of people get out after they serve there contract cause you can get a really good job out there in the civilian sector. Honestly the only way you make a good chunk of money is deploying these days, that's where we get most of our incentive pays and allowances. I just don't know why people think we make a lot of money, as an enlisted Air Force we don't make a whole lot. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i respect her's, but i think she is wrong. But its her right to criticize things, and me and my fellow brothers will keep that right of her's around.

If you stay the full 20 years, the retirement benefits will definitely be worth it. I retired from the US Army and I missed getting the bigger paychecks that I could have as a civilian, but now, with my monthly retirement check and the FREE full medical and dental for me and the very cheap medical and dental benefits for my wife, it was worth it. Now I make the big civilian money plus I have that very nice bonus of retirement money so I really can't complain. If you think you can make it to 20, go for it. It truly pays off in the end.

 

[PILEGGI78563]

I can not believe some of the trash talking I just read.
How can any of you make such disrespectful remarks about the young men that are laying there life on the line for our country ???
In the end it DOES NOT MATTER why some one chose to serve in the military.
It DOES NOT MATTER where they came from, what race they are or how much education they have.
WHAT DOES MATTER is the fact that they decided to give up their freedom and put on the uniform of the STILL BEST AND STRONGEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD !
Their job is to protect our nation and our way of life , even though some of you decide to live your life in lala land , stuffing your faces and watching mind numbing reality tv.
It does not change the fact that these men that you disrespect are still out here , in harms way defending YOUR FREEDOM and YOUR way of life.
I am proud of my service to my country and I miss the friends that I have lost.
As long as our military is a all volunteer force we should raise their salary so that when they come back home from a life of sacrifice they can live a decent life.
Last thing , to all the hypocrites in our goverment that get payed WAY TOO MUCH and take money from oil and insurance companys NEED TO REMEMBER THEY ARE SERVENTS OF THE PEOPLE !
ps: Did you get the change you wanted ?
:fing26:
Have a nice day

 

[Hustlers]

As a member of the service myself, I absolutely applaud and agree with the letter he wrote. It's nice to know we have some E-3's with some creative writing skills. I WANT MORE MONEY!!! GIVE IT TO ME TAXPAYERS lol..njk It's very true that our salaries even with benefits don't exactly compare to the civilian sector. However, as another post stated the major benefits are reaped after separating. To angry ass Milos up there (jk) yes there are some

half-tards and a few full tards...but they still made it through basic/boot and technical training which just makes them lazy not stupid. They are capable, but unmotivated and uncaring. Aside from needing some address from their leadership should their ridiculousness really cause punishment or ill-fated benefit increase proposals? to thos of us who deserve and or need them?

 

[Hustlers]

in addition, whats worse than our base pay is the fact that were paid a completely different salary based upon where we live. I make 20k less a year now than I did my first 4 years in. Is that really fair? I've been in 6 years and make less than I did in my first? If I get paid any less Ill need welfare myself.

 

[Dr of Golf]

If I get paid any less Ill need welfare myself.

When I got back from Nam and assigned to Fort Benning, GA in 1971 ... I know that quite a few enlisted personnel had to and did go on Welfare to help make ends meet. It was shamefull then as it is now that many of the lower enlisted men and women have to use Welfare to supplement their military income, especially after being in harms way. It seems that things haven't changed, and that is a shame.

 

[ax1]

I think its a disgrace that these "Private Contractors" aka Mercenaries make a hell of alot more money than our GI's.

Soldier, 3 year corporal = $20,000
Mercenary = $150,000 - $250,000

Quote: http://www.redrat.net/BUSH_WAR/mercenaries/index.htm

Salary comparisons for
US soldiers
vs.
private security firms
in Iraq​

Today, there are tens of thousands of men and women who were called away from their jobs and families - they had entered the National Guard, which requires under most circumstances a six month training period and then just two weeks of active service each year - because their nation required them to serve in the deserts of Iraq and in the treacherous streets of cities deeply angry with the US occupation.
According to figures current during the active war a year ago, the salary of a soldier in the lowest rank who has one year's service was $15,480 a year - only a thousand dollars more than the average pay for an usher in a movie theatre in the USA. The pay for an experienced corporal of three years of service was $19,980 a year.
For this, US soldiers are on the frontlines in Iraq, risking their lives; with over 700 dead, and many more returning home amputees and permanently impaired, they have much at risk, yet their nation recompenses them with minimal pay.
Meanwhile, the government pays private firms between $500 and $1,500 a day for the experienced military personnel they supply in Iraq. That works out to mercenaries who often earn between $150,000 and $250,000 a year.
In stark terms, a mercenary works in a less risky position, providing support to fighting men or guarding oil wells instead of going on patrols in hostile territory under enemy fire and assault - and makes 10 or 20 times as much money as a soldier who serves his country instead of a corporation.
There are mercenaries making more than General Tommy Franks, who commanded the US armed forces in last year's war in Iraq. With more than 36 years of service, Franks' annual base pay was $153,948.
Is it possible to sustain an army when mercenaries for private contractors take less risks and earn 10 times as much as soldiers? Is it possible to delude Iraqis and Americans alike that a reconstruction budget is for reconstruction, when a quarter of it pays for private military forces? Is it possible to successfully change the color of the corpses in Iraq? Is this sort of warfare sustainable, and more tellingly, is it by any measure ethical? Time will tell.

The author, Huck Gutman, a former Fulbright Visiting Professor at Calcutta University, is Professor of English at the University of Vermont.​

I'm betting that this is the info. that will turn the military families against this war!​

 

[PILEGGI78563]

I think its a disgrace that these "Private Contractors" aka Mercenaries make a hell of alot more money than our GI's.

Soldier, 3 year corporal = $20,000
Mercenary = $150,000 - $250,000

Salary comparisons for
US soldiers
vs.
private security firms
in Iraq​

Today, there are tens of thousands of men and women who were called away from their jobs and families - they had entered the National Guard, which requires under most circumstances a six month training period and then just two weeks of active service each year - because their nation required them to serve in the deserts of Iraq and in the treacherous streets of cities deeply angry with the US occupation.
According to figures current during the active war a year ago, the salary of a soldier in the lowest rank who has one year's service was $15,480 a year - only a thousand dollars more than the average pay for an usher in a movie theatre in the USA. The pay for an experienced corporal of three years of service was $19,980 a year.
For this, US soldiers are on the frontlines in Iraq, risking their lives; with over 700 dead, and many more returning home amputees and permanently impaired, they have much at risk, yet their nation recompenses them with minimal pay.
Meanwhile, the government pays private firms between $500 and $1,500 a day for the experienced military personnel they supply in Iraq. That works out to mercenaries who often earn between $150,000 and $250,000 a year.
In stark terms, a mercenary works in a less risky position, providing support to fighting men or guarding oil wells instead of going on patrols in hostile territory under enemy fire and assault - and makes 10 or 20 times as much money as a soldier who serves his country instead of a corporation.
There are mercenaries making more than General Tommy Franks, who commanded the US armed forces in last year's war in Iraq. With more than 36 years of service, Franks' annual base pay was $153,948.
Is it possible to sustain an army when mercenaries for private contractors take less risks and earn 10 times as much as soldiers? Is it possible to delude Iraqis and Americans alike that a reconstruction budget is for reconstruction, when a quarter of it pays for private military forces? Is it possible to successfully change the color of the corpses in Iraq? Is this sort of warfare sustainable, and more tellingly, is it by any measure ethical? Time will tell.

The author, Huck Gutman, a former Fulbright Visiting Professor at Calcutta University, is Professor of English at the University of Vermont.I'm betting that this is the info. that will turn the military families against this war!​

A-hem......
For the statment in red ....thats not correct.
Statement in blue : Well I did serve my country and even though I now work for a private company I AM STILL SERVING MY COUNTRY AND GETTING PAYED SO WHAT ??? Actually going on 6 years in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Green : We have a volunteer army , if my brothers that are currently in decide to go the private route then why not ? Again with the less risk deal is bullsh!t bro.
One last thing. Becuase we are private contractors no 1 back home gives a sh!t when we die. Only the people on the ground here that we serve with actually know or care.

 

[ax1]

A-hem......
For the statment in red ....thats not correct.
Statement in blue : Well I did serve my country and even though I now work for a private company I AM STILL SERVING MY COUNTRY AND GETTING PAYED SO WHAT ??? Actually going on 6 years in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Green : We have a volunteer army , if my brothers that are currently in decide to go the private route then why not ? Again with the less risk deal is bullsh!t bro.
One last thing. Becuase we are private contractors no 1 back home gives a sh!t when we die. Only the people on the ground here that we serve with actually know or care.

Private contractors arent serving the country, they are serving the corporations. They mislead their employees into thinking they are working for a greater cause but the opposite is true. Mercenaries (at least most that I know of) do all the dirty work and they dont oblige to the Constitution.

I can start with hundreds of examples such as how the founder of Blackwater proclaims a Christion vs. Islam crusade in the middle east, executions, slaughtering of innocent civilians and so on.

When private corporations enforce military action on domestic/foreign affairs that is a dangerous route to be going for our country which time and time has proven so. When the priority is profit for the private interests corruption goes through the roof.

 

[PILEGGI78563]

Private contractors arent serving the country, they are serving the corporations. They do all the dirty work and they dont oblige to the Constitution.

I can start with hundreds of examples such as child prostitution rings, how the founder of Blackwater proclaims a Christion vs. Islam war in the middle east, executions, slaughtering of innocent civilians and so on.

lmao sure bro thanks for the enlightenment

And as far as doing all the dirty work , What happend with us just securing oil wells ???

If we do the dirty work then please tell me WHAT part of WAR is " clean " ?

 

[ax1]

lmao sure bro thanks for the enlightenment

And as far as doing all the dirty work , What happend with us just securing oil wells ???

If we do the dirty work then please tell me WHAT part of WAR is " clean " ?

Thats exactly what Im trying to say, these corporations want to secure the oil wells, thats why corporations such as Halliburton had a big presentation on how wonderful a financial opportunity the Iraq War will be for business before the war even started. War=profits, private corps love it as it increases their stock.

 

[PILEGGI78563]

Thats exactly what Im trying to say, these corporations want to secure the oil wells, thats why corporations such as Halliburton had a big presentation on how wonderful a financial opportunity the Iraq War will be for business before the war even started. War=profits, private corps love it as it increases their stock.

So whats your point ????

Are you really that naive that I have to explaine to you the importance of securing the oil wells when we went to Iraq ??????

The military has used contractors for a very long time bro.
A lot of jobs need to be done while at war and the " people " would much rather sacrifice a private contractor, than some poor 20 year old kid that had no choice.
WHAT part of all this do you not understand ?

 

[ax1]

So whats your point ????

Are you really that naive that I have to explaine to you the importance of securing the oil wells when we went to Iraq ??????

The military has used contractors for a very long time bro.
A lot of jobs need to be done while at war and the " people " would much rather sacrifice a private contractor, than some poor 20 year old kid that had no choice.
WHAT part of all this do you not understand ?

Iraq oil is not important, neither is any of the oil in the middle east. We have more oil in the base of the Colorado Rockies alone then all the Saudi reserves.

My point is Im just sticking up for the troops, they are the heroes I like to look after who volunteer (and yes they had a choice to join, somehow your thinking the US military is a draft) to join up and defend our country. They deserve much more than corrupt corporations only looking after their increase in profits rather than defending the country.

 

[nemo]

Not only do they not earn enough,. but oftentimes the medical care they receive when they get home is sub-standard. It's rather sad.

 

[ax1]

Not only do they not earn enough,. but oftentimes the medical care they receive when they get home is sub-standard. It's rather sad.

A GI locally came home with a missing limb and weeks later he recieved a bill in the mail from the military for $5,000+ for loosing his equipment. Talk about a back stab to a vet. I think he fought it off though, but thats not the point.

 

[PILEGGI78563]

In any case I still stand by what I said concerning the pay our military gets.

If you would like to start another thread to let all the world know how evil we contractors are then please do. Dont wanna hijack this thread any longer.

I love the fact that I served my country
And our nation does not understand the sacrifices our military makes.
Only the people here serving and our families understand.

Every1 else can go back to watching tv and worrying about what Jay Z and Beyonce are up to in peace.

 

[PILEGGI78563]

Iraq oil is not important, neither is any of the oil in the middle east. We have more oil in the base of the Colorado Rockies alone then all the Saudi reserves.

My point is Im just sticking up for the troops, they are the heroes I like to look after who volunteer (and yes they had a choice to join, somehow your thinking the US military is a draft) to join up and defend our country. They deserve much more than corrupt corporations only looking after their increase in profits rather than defending the country.

I dont even have to say anything after that statement lol

 

[ax1]

In any case I still stand by what I said concerning the pay our military gets.

If you would like to start another thread to let all the world know how evil we contractors are then please do. Dont wanna hijack this thread any longer.

I love the fact that I served my country
And our nation does not understand the sacrifices our military makes.
Only the people here serving and our families understand.

Every1 else can go back to watching tv and worrying about what Jay Z and Beyonce are up to in peace.

Thats fine, corruption and reasons for war is a different topic.

"And our nation does not understand the sacrifices our military makes."
This is an excellent point you make, thats why my intent is that the volunteer army deserves much more that the corporations. We need to care for our soldiers and vets better financially and medically.
I have family in the military and know people that passed so I hope your not telling my to worry about Jay Z.

 

[ax1]

I dont even have to say anything after that statement lol

We also have more oil in montana and dakota to take this country 100% and completely out of debt and supply us with oil until 2040...that with the Rockies, Gulf, Alaska, etc...

So your saying, we need Middle Eastern oil? 100% absolutely not.

The oil in Dakota is Montana is sweet oil, and is so pure you can just take it out of the ground and put it directly into a diesel engine and run it fine.

 

[PILEGGI78563]

My god man you are totally missing the point.

Do you not understand the Environmental and Economic importance of us securing those oil wells ?????


And when the hell did I say our military drafts ???

A soldier has no choice but to accept the mission he is given.
I`m not talking about if he chose to sign up or not.

 

[ax1]

My god man you are totally missing the point.

Do you not understand the Environmental and Economic importance of us securing those oil wells ?????

Its not important at all. They were fine before we went in there, the only economic importance belongs to the private corporations. How much trillions in tax dollars more do we have to spend supporting these corporations and their illegal military's protecting these oil wells so they can maximize their profits more and more every year? The Economic importance is insignificant as its hurting the American people, their tax dollars and this country is going bankrupt paying for all this meanwhile a select few are getting rich laughing at the American People.

How has this helped the Americans, before the war a decade ago America had a economic surplus and gas was $1 and change a gallon. Now 10 years later and "secure" oil wells gas is hovering around $4 a gallon and the country is $11-$12 trillion in debt.

So what have we gained? Do you understand that the oil in Montana and Dakota alone is enough to take us 100% out of debt, supply us with oil until at least 2040 and not a single soldier will be hurt and/or killed? We dont have to put soldiers in harms way to use our own oil. There is no need for middle eastern oil, your going by what the corporations propaganda departments are feeding misleading information to the general public, the same corporations that knew America can be 100% oil independent since the 1970's when they first discovered the vast reserves.

 

[PILEGGI78563]

Its not important at all. They were fine before we went in there, the only economic importance belongs to the private corporations.

How has this helped the Americans, before the war a decade ago America had a economic surplus and gas was $1 and change a gallon. Now 10 years later and "secure" oil wells gas is hovering around $4 a gallon and the country is $11-$12 trillion in debt.

So what have we gained? Do you understand that the oil in Montana and Dakota alone is enough to take us 100% out of debt, supply us with oil until at least 2040 and not a single soldier will be hurt and/or killed? We dont have to put soldiers in harms way to use our own oil. There is no need for middle eastern oil, your going by what the corporations propaganda departments are feeding misleading information to the general public, the same corporations that knew America can be 100% oil independent since the 1970's when they first discovered the vast reserves.

No ax1 what I am going by is comon sense.
So by us not securing the oil wells and allowing some fanatical idiot to burn them HAS NO ENVITONMENTAL OR ECONOMIC IMPACT ???

Please start a new thread we at least are of the like mind concerning our military pay. This is now totally off op subject.

 

[ax1]

No ax1 what I am going by is comon sense.
So by us not securing the oil wells and allowing some fanatical idiot to burn them HAS NO ENVITONMENTAL OR ECONOMIC IMPACT ???

Please start a new thread we at least are of the like mind concerning our military pay. This is now totally off op subject.

Who was burning them? I didnt see anybody burning them before we went there. What your talking is irrelevent and never happened. The only time they burn oil wells is when we go there and send the corporations to take them over.

They wouldnt be burning them if that was the case, its their oil and they want to make money off of it not burn them, lol thats just common sense.