Here you go religious and non religious, argue away....

[madds87]

Ok Im starting this for yall to argue all you want on religion.... So I will have no more debate interupted and veared onto another subject..

Ill start this by saying. Repent and know that Jesus is Lord!!!!

Lol that should get this thing rolling...

 

[AE14]

Good start.

I will counter by saying that the Jesus story has been borrowed from several earlier sources and was taken by the Romans and adapted with existing traditions. In other words, Christianity is not an original belief an the Romans were thieves.

 

[madds87]

Oooooo so romans originated christianity? I dont believe this but would be up for the read like usual.

 

[ManBeast]

All religions have been built on those prior, the first major change was with judaism going to a monotheistic vs. the polytheistic religioins that originated with the sumerians (i believe).

ManBeast

 

[AE14]

Oooooo so romans originated christianity? I dont believe this but would be up for the read like usual.

Not originated, just took the myth to make it work for them. Ie Constantine and the council of hippo and council of nicea.

 

[madds87]

Could you give me the soarce? Would be an interesting read and would love to debate this. Not that I agree.

 

[AE14]

Could you give me the soarce? Would be an interesting read and would love to debate this. Not that I agree.

I am not at home....but do a search on the council of hippo and nicea from the 4th century ce.

In terms of the story, read about the lives of
Horus, Mithras, Osiris, Dionysus and sol invictus just to name a few

 

[GTB]

All religions have been built on those prior, the first major change was with judaism going to a monotheistic vs. the polytheistic religioins that originated with the sumerians (i believe).

ManBeast

That is correct. The first experience with the Divine was personal relationship Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve walked with God. Religion is a set of dogmas, that seperate and divide.

 

[GTB]

I am not at home....but do a search on the council of hippo and nicea from the 4th century ce.

In terms of the story, read about the lives of
Horus, Mithras, Osiris, Dionysus and sol invictus just to name a few

The Nicean Creed make for an interesting read, Unfortunately, the decision were based upon personal opinion and political loyalty. Constantine , was a politician not a Christian. It was under the rule and authority of Constantine that the pagan religons were given Christian titles to whereas not to alienate the pagans, and yet endure the fastest grown sect of Judaism of the day. The pagans had a god for everyday, much like greek mythology , if you couldn't understand it's origin ascribe it a name so that it is not offended.

 

[ManBeast]

I think you are twisting what I said slightly, I'm not convinced that Adam and Eve were real. All that I'm saying is that each religion has taken aspects of those before it and incorporated them.

ManBeast

 

[GTB]

I think you are twisting what I said slightly, I'm not convinced that Adam and Eve were real. All that I'm saying is that each religion has taken aspects of those before it and incorporated them.

ManBeast

I apologize, I didn't intend to misrepresent you post. What was the religion that predates Judaism, and what rituals and or aspects were incorporated.Judaism is the first monotheistic religion right?

 

[AE14]

The Nicean Creed make for an interesting read, Unfortunately, the decision were based upon personal opinion and political loyalty. Constantine , was a politician not a Christian. It was under the rule and authority of Constantine that the pagan religons were given Christian titles to whereas not to alienate the pagans, and yet endure the fastest grown sect of Judaism of the day. The pagans had a god for everyday, much like greek mythology , if you couldn't understand it's origin ascribe it a name so that it is not offended.

Constantine was a Christian, at least at the end of his life. However, I think you have it backwards. Christianity adopted
Pagan holidays and traditions, ie. Easter, Christmas. Much of the Christian dogma was based on pagan ideology.

 

[ManBeast]

I believe that judaism just took the pantheistic concept of the previous religions and "simplified" it into one god instead of a pantheon of them. I've found no proof or anything to support this, and is somwhat contrary to how complicated they made other things (laws of kashrut (kosher) anyone? LOL).

I truly believe that religions are a good way to instill morals and values in a population at large through stories and a strong sense of community. The only thing that bothers me is that they all tend to have the "carrot on a stick" methodology for encouraging people to be good. None of them are just "be good for the sake of being good" it is "be good and you'll go to heaven" or "be good and you'll be reincarnated into a better caste" even in the case of the greek/norse religions there were good places to go and not-so-good places you could end up. Judaism doesn't have a "hell" per-say, but there are things akin to purgatory.

ManBeast

 

[Rodja]

I am not at home....but do a search on the council of hippo and nicea from the 4th century ce.

In terms of the story, read about the lives of
Horus, Mithras, Osiris, Dionysus and sol invictus just to name a few

The Horus and Jesus story virtually parallel each other and the creation myths (flood included) can be found in prior cultures including the Sumerians, Zoroastrians, and Egyptians.

 

[GTB]

Constantine was a Christian, at least at the end of his life. However, I think you have it backwards. Christianity adopted
Pagan holidays and traditions, ie. Easter, Christmas. Much of the Christian dogma was based on pagan ideology.

A little more research will validate my statements. The History channel is far from credible.. The subedtly of Christians adopting pagan traditions, or pagans assuming Christian titles is important. Eshtar(Easter) Saturanalia(Christmas) was an attempted to unify the people under Roman rule. The Catholic(Universal) church was born out of this movement. Contrary to popular belief Peter was not the first pope. The reason people do not grow in understanding is that we accept regurgitated concepts as truth without diligently seeking the truth from the source of truth God himself
Remember truth never changes, facts change as more information is obtained. Ex. Is the earth round or flat? I am not trying to be condesending, but I know you are aware that everyone thought the earth was flat before Columbus. Isaiah said it was round. Isaiah 40.22. The word used is chuwg meaning sphere. That was 700 BC

 

[AE14]

The Horus and Jesus story virtually parallel each other and the creation myths (flood included) can be found in prior cultures including the Sumerians, Zoroastrians, and Egyptians.

agreed....most of christian tradition and the jesus myth has been stolen from earlier sources.

A little more research will validate my statements. The History channel is far from credible.. The subedtly of Christians adopting pagan traditions, or pagans assuming Christian titles is important. Eshtar(Easter) Saturanalia(Christmas) was an attempted to unify the people under Roman rule. The Catholic(Universal) church was born out of this movement. Contrary to popular belief Peter was not the first pope. The reason people do not grow in understanding is that we accept regurgitated concepts as truth without diligently seeking the truth from the source of truth God himself

I am not sure if you are making an attempt at being rude, but by profession I am a historian, and have spent a great deal of time researching and studying this. Christianity is based on many ealier pagan beliefs. You are correct that it was to unify Rome under Constantine, who was baptised on his death bed. However, the stories and miracles of Jesus are also quite borrowed as are the flood stories as well as the 10 commandments (see Egyptian Oath of Clearance)

Remember truth never changes, facts change as more information is obtained. Ex. Is the earth round or flat? I am not trying to be condesending, but I know you are aware that everyone thought the earth was flat before Columbus. Isaiah said it was round. Isaiah 40.22. The word used is chuwg meaning sphere. That was 700 BC

You are being quite short sighted here. The earliest civilizations (Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, etc..) all knew the world was round. As a great example, see the Equestrian statue of Marcus Aurilieus (Roman) and look at what he held in his hand. There is also another with the statue of Constantine in his basillica. They both held an orb as a sign of dominion over the world, the round world. The only reason that people felt the world was flat is as a result of the dark ages and the neglecting of science and research in favor of the focus on Christianity. As a people we descended down a path of ignorance and "darkness" as we only focused on devotion to god, and we completely neglected all things intellectual.

 

[GTB]

agreed....most of christian tradition and the jesus myth has been stolen from earlier sources.

I am not sure if you are making an attempt at being rude, but by profession I am a historian, and have spent a great deal of time researching and studying this. Christianity is based on many ealier pagan beliefs. You are correct that it was to unify Rome under Constantine, who was baptised on his death bed. However, the stories and miracles of Jesus are also quite borrowed as are the flood stories as well as the 10 commandments (see Egyptian Oath of Clearance)
You are being quite short sighted here. The earliest civilizations (Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, etc..) all knew the world was round. As a great example, see the Equestrian statue of Marcus Aurilieus (Roman) and look at what he held in his hand. There is also another with the statue of Constantine in his basillica. They both held an orb as a sign of dominion over the world, the round world. The only reason that people felt the world was flat is as a result of the dark ages and the neglecting of science and research in favor of the focus on Christianity. As a people we descended down a path of ignorance and "darkness" as we only focused on devotion to god, and we completely neglected all things intellectual.[/QUOTE]

First, I would like to apologize if I offended you it was not my intent. Secondly, your statement "Christianity is based on many earlier pagan beliefs" while sounding definitive is an opinion, based on as George Bush would say fuzzy math. Yes, there are similar accounts, but read throughly they are very different in context. Horus, the product of phyallus from a dismembered body . A historical approach to the life of Jesus will help in your comparison.

I was intrigued,aka looked it up for myself, and I could not locate any photos of an orb in any photos. Maybe I did not look in the right places. I would lke to see the photos, if you can provide a link.While it may seem as if I am trying to defend or contend for my beliefs. I am interested in learning and growing. I share your view of the dark ages. It was mans attempt to control the masses through knowledge. In this case limiting access to the knowledge. i have stated in a previous post, I can endorse the actions of in the name of Christ. It is Christ alone in whom I find no fault. The dominate theology of the day was a very corrupt catholic church, which exercised complete autonomy. The notion that one can be excommunicated( salvation revoked) by a governing body is offensive.

 

[fame126]

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This. ^^^^

 

[jwa254]

It's not too hard to see the similarity of concepts (story and principle wise) from religion to religion. However, I don't understand why some people are so bigoted against a religious person. It's ignorant. I understand that there are fundamentalists but to persecute an entire sect of people for the bad is primitive at best. The way I see it, if being religious and buying into a religion will in turn make you a better human: go for it. Your beliefs, whether religious or not, should not be pushed onto others (especially not in the militant fashion some seem to prefer).

TLDR; Be a good person and I don't care what you believe (or don't)

 

[AE14]

agreed....most of christian tradition and the jesus myth has been stolen from earlier sources.

I am not sure if you are making an attempt at being rude, but by profession I am a historian, and have spent a great deal of time researching and studying this. Christianity is based on many ealier pagan beliefs. You are correct that it was to unify Rome under Constantine, who was baptised on his death bed. However, the stories and miracles of Jesus are also quite borrowed as are the flood stories as well as the 10 commandments (see Egyptian Oath of Clearance)
You are being quite short sighted here. The earliest civilizations (Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, etc..) all knew the world was round. As a great example, see the Equestrian statue of Marcus Aurilieus (Roman) and look at what he held in his hand. There is also another with the statue of Constantine in his basillica. They both held an orb as a sign of dominion over the world, the round world. The only reason that people felt the world was flat is as a result of the dark ages and the neglecting of science and research in favor of the focus on Christianity. As a people we descended down a path of ignorance and "darkness" as we only focused on devotion to god, and we completely neglected all things intellectual.[/QUOTE]

First, I would like to apologize if I offended you it was not my intent. Secondly, your statement "Christianity is based on many earlier pagan beliefs" while sounding definitive is an opinion, based on as George Bush would say fuzzy math. Yes, there are similar accounts, but read throughly they are very different in context. Horus, the product of phyallus from a dismembered body . A historical approach to the life of Jesus will help in your comparison.[/QUOTE] no need to apologize, its all good

I think the accounts are more than similar. Granted the Horus, Isis, Osiris story is similar, but it is just one of many that seems to be the root of the Jesus story. Look into the Egyptian mystical cults, the life of the Buddha, Mithras, Dionysus and you start to see same startling similarities. There are also some Sumerian Savior stories as well, I just forget which god (Enki, Ea, or Enlil) it was. Also, many earlier Mesoamerican cultures had a variety of Virgin Birth, Savior stories, as well as ressurrection stories. Just saying

I was intrigued,aka looked it up for myself, and I could not locate any photos of an orb in any photos. Maybe I did not look in the right places. I would lke to see the photos, if you can provide a link.While it may seem as if I am trying to defend or contend for my beliefs. I am interested in learning and growing. I share your view of the dark ages. It was mans attempt to control the masses through knowledge. In this case limiting access to the knowledge. i have stated in a previous post, I can endorse the actions of in the name of Christ. It is Christ alone in whom I find no fault. The dominate theology of the day was a very corrupt catholic church, which exercised complete autonomy. The notion that one can be excommunicated( salvation revoked) by a governing body is offensive.

If you do a google image search on the Equestrian statue of Marcus Aurelius you will note the left hand. Also, the Constantine one is based on contemporary accounts, as it was destroyed over time.

In terms of other cultures and the reference to a round earth, look at the early Mesoamericans (Olmecs) or even the Egyptians. They were well aware of the precession of the Earth, which necessitates the knowledge of the earth being round.

 

[GTB]

agreed....most of christian tradition and the jesus myth has been stolen from earlier sources.

I am not sure if you are making an attempt at being rude, but by profession I am a historian, and have spent a great deal of time researching and studying this. Christianity is based on many ealier pagan beliefs. You are correct that it was to unify Rome under Constantine, who was baptised on his death bed. However, the stories and miracles of Jesus are also quite borrowed as are the flood stories as well as the 10 commandments (see Egyptian Oath of Clearance)
You are being quite short sighted here. The earliest civilizations (Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, etc..) all knew the world was round. As a great example, see the Equestrian statue of Marcus Aurilieus (Roman) and look at what he held in his hand. There is also another with the statue of Constantine in his basillica. They both held an orb as a sign of dominion over the world, the round world. The only reason that people felt the world was flat is as a result of the dark ages and the neglecting of science and research in favor of the focus on Christianity. As a people we descended down a path of ignorance and "darkness" as we only focused on devotion to god, and we completely neglected all things intellectual.[/QUOTE]

First, I would like to apologize if I offended you it was not my intent. Secondly, your statement "Christianity is based on many earlier pagan beliefs" while sounding definitive is an opinion, based on as George Bush would say fuzzy math. Yes, there are similar accounts, but read throughly they are very different in context. Horus, the product of phyallus from a dismembered body . A historical approach to the life of Jesus will help in your comparison.[/QUOTE] no need to apologize, its all good

I think the accounts are more than similar. Granted the Horus, Isis, Osiris story is similar, but it is just one of many that seems to be the root of the Jesus story. Look into the Egyptian mystical cults, the life of the Buddha, Mithras, Dionysus and you start to see same startling similarities. There are also some Sumerian Savior stories as well, I just forget which god (Enki, Ea, or Enlil) it was. Also, many earlier Mesoamerican cultures had a variety of Virgin Birth, Savior stories, as well as ressurrection stories. Just saying


If you do a google image search on the Equestrian statue of Marcus Aurelius you will note the left hand. Also, the Constantine one is based on contemporary accounts, as it was destroyed over time.

In terms of other cultures and the reference to a round earth, look at the early Mesoamericans (Olmecs) or even the Egyptians. They were well aware of the precession of the Earth, which necessitates the knowledge of the earth being round.

It's all good, in the end it comes down to what source is deemed credible. IMO , the Word of GOD is infallable. The single purpose of the bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ and redemption of mankind. Similar myths compell men to serve and or sacrifice to ther gods. The story throughout the bible is how God came in humilty to save men not induce servitude. Looked at all the images of Marcus Aurellius still didn't see the orb , the left hand is empty.I did find picture of Charlemange.
Link suggest Trajan carried orb in his hand
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