Watching Kerry speak right now...

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  1. Watching Kerry speak right now...


    Seriously, is this the best that the Democrats can do? It's kind of pathetic. I can't wait to see him lose.

    /karp


  2. We could argue the same about your dirty republicans.


    At least Kerry doesn't constantly fall off bicyles, choke on pretzels, or invade random countries for no reason.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    Seriously, is this the best that the Democrats can do? It's kind of pathetic. I can't wait to see him lose.

    /karp
    I've gotta agree this ticket has probs, I'm a moderate (Libertarian) and I'm young, white, male... so that makes my demographic not that important for democrats, but nonetheless I have an opinon on this ticket (and what beter place to voice it but on AM?)

    1: Kerry has zero charisma, in a debate against Bush he might technically win, but I think he'll lose in most ppls eyes just because he has zero charisma

    2: Democrats seem to be rallying 'classic' demographics IE: black, gay, etc and neglecting other newer demographics IE:hispanic, asian

    3:bringing out speakers like Al Sharpton is IMO (and many pundits) a bad idea in this campaign, since this campaign is all about the small number of moderates, most of whom will not be ardent supporters of hardline leftwing policy, and the voices thereof (Al Sharpton)

    4: edwards may look pretty but how can he compare to Dick Cheney when it comes to public perception of foreign policy?


    The common wisdom would say Kerry is a shoe in, given Bushes many erroneous missteps and the huge smear campaign (okay, maybe truth campaign?) farenheit 9/11 comes to mind, but because of Kerry's lack of charisma, combined with the fact he's a flip-flop and extremely leftwing (and showing it) ? its a toss up IMO.

    I think in the grander scheme of things, the huge boost the democrats got (baby boomers) is beginning to crack under the weight of the growing number of ppl born after the baby boomers who arent default leftwingers and maybe see leftwing policy in a different light having grown up under it?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Meerschaum
    farenheit 9/11
    If I had to classify myself with a certain party, I would be a Republican, but damn that was a very powerful movie and it really showed alot of VERY SUSPICIOUS relationships regarding the Bush family and the Saudis.

    I loved the part when he tried to get congressmen to sign their children up to go fight over in Iraq.

    Even though I say I'd align with the Republicans, I really don't consider myself a Republican. I think Chris Rock put it best in his "Never Scared" HBO Special. This quote isn't direct but...


    "I think all Republicans are idiots. I think all Democrats are idiots. Anyone who makes up their mind before they even hear an issue is a ****ING IDIOT".

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Sheesh
    If I had to classify myself with a certain party, I would be a Republican, but damn that was a very powerful movie and it really showed alot of VERY SUSPICIOUS relationships regarding the Bush family and the Saudis.

    I loved the part when he tried to get congressmen to sign their children up to go fight over in Iraq.

    Even though I say I'd align with the Republicans, I really don't consider myself a Republican. I think Chris Rock put it best in his "Never Scared" HBO Special. This quote isn't direct but...


    "I think all Republicans are idiots. I think all Democrats are idiots. Anyone who makes up their mind before they even hear an issue is a ****ING IDIOT".
    I agree it was interesting, but to me it sets a bad precedent and I pretty much agree with Christopher Hitchens about it (although I usually disagree with hitchens)

    You can make ANYONE look bad by using circumstantial evidence, pursuasive questions(IE: if he's not a saint, he must be the...? well what is he???), and of course omissin... lets think about it... take someone we can all agree was at least an 'okay' person, I'll be a jerk and pick George Washington.

    Pot smoker (must be a madman?)
    no teeth (must mistake rocks for walnuts when he's psychotic on that pot?)
    wore a wig (must have pulled his hair out in a fit of rage after chewing rocks from being psychotic on pot?)
    drank alcohol (probably while chewing on rocks, psychotic on pot in a fit of rage! we all know god dosent like that!)
    spent time around guns/cannons (woah, this dude is a rightwing whackjob, pot smoking, wig wearing, toothless psycho?)

    now thats not perfect, but you get my point, its easy to omit facts, twist things, and make someone appear much different then they really are, that being said I think Bush sucks.

  6. I thought he did as well as can be expected of him, in fact I thought it was a pretty good speech

    If he manages to screw this up and lose to the bumbling idiot currently in office...well then he doesn't derserve it anyway.

    And BTW if the best the R's can do is a fortunate son with limited speech capabilites and misleading agendas, well they are pretty sad themselves IMHO.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by jboogie
    We could argue the same about your dirty republicans.


    At least Kerry doesn't constantly fall off bicyles, choke on pretzels, or invade random countries for no reason.
    yea seriously. The first person that comes to my mind when you say pathetic is George W. Lucky for most of us we are not turning 19 next year. Those kids get free studying at Baghdad U! First lesson, how to dodge RPGs! Lucky bastards

    I am not voting for Bush for the sole reason that he has divided the country so much. I haven't heard some rational political debate in awhile. People are so quick to jump to whats "good and evil', when in reality it is not so simple. Plus Bush saying he cant think of one mistake he has made since becoming president, what a joke.


    Kerry spoke at my sisters high school graduation and he was awesome. I literally was in awe. He may be "boring" but we are talking about presidents not pop icons. If you dint vote for Kerry solely because he is not "charismatic" then you are an idiot IMO.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by jweave23
    I thought he did as well as can be expected of him, in fact I thought it was a pretty good speech

    If he manages to screw this up and lose to the bumbling idiot currently in office...well then he doesn't derserve it anyway.

    And BTW if the best the R's can do is a fortunate son with limited speech capabilites and misleading agendas, well they are pretty sad themselves IMHO.

  9. meerschaum,

    how can you proclaim yourself a libertarian and actually support bush, ashcroft?!?

    have you read the federalist paper? the laws that bush is passing, above all else, is reducing our liberty and rights to levels unimaginable by the founding fathers.

    In the name of terrorism, we will protect you. another 4 years and bush will be able to send troops into your home, take you out, all on a paltry excuse of national security and you're a terrorist.

    Cheney used to CEO of halliburton. now why does halliburton have a multi-billion dollar contract that was NOT open to bidding?!?

    if you're a libertarian, i'll eat my foot.

    fiddler

  10. Quote Originally Posted by fiddler
    meerschaum,

    how can you proclaim yourself a libertarian and actually support bush, ashcroft?!?

    have you read the federalist paper? the laws that bush is passing, above all else, is reducing our liberty and rights to levels unimaginable by the founding fathers.

    In the name of terrorism, we will protect you. another 4 years and bush will be able to send troops into your home, take you out, all on a paltry excuse of national security and you're a terrorist.

    Cheney used to CEO of halliburton. now why does halliburton have a multi-billion dollar contract that was NOT open to bidding?!?

    if you're a libertarian, i'll eat my foot.

    fiddler
    I dont think I ever said I "supported" Bush, maybe you misread?, keep in mind just because 1: is an a**hole dosent make 2: a brite bulb.... I dont care for Bush or Kerry really...and I despise ppl like moore who help noone but themselves at everyones expense. (I say at our expense, because when we cast reality/objectivity/etc away, it turns into a 'perception' match)
    Last edited by Meerschaum; 07-30-2004 at 02:23 AM.
    •   
       


  11. it just sounded like you were rooting for him. we need another washington or thomas jefferson.

    professional politicians really suck.

    fiddler

  12. Quote Originally Posted by fiddler
    Cheney used to CEO of halliburton. now why does halliburton have a multi-billion dollar contract that was NOT open to bidding?!?
    Just wondering, do you how many other companies do the work that Halliburton does?


    On a different note, please keep this thread from turning into a huge argument about who is right and who is wrong. Be informative and precise. Don't be a dickhead.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by jboogie
    At least Kerry doesn't constantly fall off bicyles, choke on pretzels, or invade random countries for no reason.

    Who said the following?

    Saddam Hussein s WMD Are A Threat. (2004)

    Leave Saddam Unfettered With Nuclear Weapons Or Weapons Of Mass Destruction Is Unacceptable. (2003)

    If You Don t Believe Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn t Vote For Me. (2003)

    Threat Of Saddam Hussein With Weapons Of Mass Destruction Is Real. (2002)

    I Am Prepared To Hold Saddam Hussein Accountable And Destroy His Weapons Of Mass Destruction. (2002)





    All quotes John Kerry. He's been saying that for 14 years. Stop blaming Bush.

    I thought Kerry's speech was definitly the 'speech of his life'. A wake up call to me and should be to all Republicans to take this seriously.

    Kerry only mentioned the first 20 years of his life.

    The record is: 4 months of Vietnam (which I greatly respect) & 126 months of voting AGAINST national defense.

    It was a good speech, but at the end of the day - it won't explain his horendous record.
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by jboogie


    At least Kerry doesn't constantly fall off bicyles, choke on pretzels,
    Right, because those are the major qualifications for leader of the free world.


    or invade random countries for no reason.
    1. Iraq was hardly "random," and I certainly hope you don't think Afghanistan was "random" either.

    2. The reason that GWB invaded Iraq (originally) was believed by Kerry, the French, Germans, Russians, the rest of the UN, and pretty much everybody else that was either against the invasion at the time or is against the war now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59

    I thought Kerry's speech was definitly the 'speech of his life'. A wake up call to me and should be to all Republicans to take this seriously.
    It was certainly the best I've seen him do, and I give him credit. But even so, he still has the charm and charisma of my gym bag. I do agree that we need to take this as a serious threat, and I am a bit worried about this election.

    However, he's still full of ****.

    "My name is John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty." Please ignore the videos of me calling American troops baby killers and the interview of me where I talk about throwing my medals over the fence. Because I'm proud of my military service, since it is now politically advantageous to do so.

    "Never will I send American troops into battle without the proper armor to keep them safe [etc]." Even though I voted against all the bills to give them better equipment.

    /karp

  15. Quote Originally Posted by fiddler

    Cheney used to CEO of halliburton. now why does halliburton have a multi-billion dollar contract that was NOT open to bidding?!?
    Because they've been doing business in the Middle East for years and thus already have the infrastructure in place to do the work. Awarding the bid to anyone else would have cost more time and money. Not that there's really very many (if any) other companies that have the capacity to do this kind of work on this scale.

    There is, BTW, not one shred of evidence that Cheney has lifted a finger to help Halliburton since he's been in office.

    /karp

  16. Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    Seriously, is this the best that the Democrats can do? It's kind of pathetic. I can't wait to see him lose.

    /karp
    At least he can pronounce all the words in his speech correctly.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp

    1. Iraq was hardly "random," and I certainly hope you don't think Afghanistan was "random" either.
    No, it was 100% random. There is currently no evidence that Iraq was any threat to us at all.

    Afghanistan wasn't random. It was very key. So why did we only send 11,000 troops in (as opposed to the 160k in Iraq)? Why did it take us two months to get into the mountains where Osama was?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    2. The reason that GWB invaded Iraq (originally) was believed by Kerry, the French, Germans, Russians, the rest of the UN, and pretty much everybody else that was either against the invasion at the time or is against the war now.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5412317/site/newsweek

    "The CIA official quickly responded: 'Let's keep in mind the fact that this war's going to happen regardless of what Curve Ball said or didn't say,' he wrote."

    Yes, Kerry certainly seemed to have access to fair and balanced intelligence reports, didn't he?

    Perhaps without these false reports, the rest of the world didn't see the need to go along with us.

    UN knew they had weapons of mass destruction you say?

    http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolit...NoReasonForWar


    The difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals can at least take new information, revise their assumptions and admit they were wrong.

    Bush and Cheny are still insisting a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda, give me a break.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    Please ignore the videos of me calling American troops baby killers and the interview of me where I talk about throwing my medals over the fence. Because I'm proud of my military service, since it is now politically advantageous to do so.

    Please site some sort of source for the baby killer comment. I can't find any place where he does it. This is as close I can get:

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...kerry.vietnam/

  19. Quote Originally Posted by jboogie
    Please site some sort of source for the baby killer comment. I can't find any place where he does it. This is as close I can get:

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...kerry.vietnam/
    He made many televised appearances during that era and also co-authored a book. I'll try to find a source but it'll take some time. I'm sure I read it or heard it somewhere.

    /karp

  20. Quote Originally Posted by jboogie
    No, it was 100% random. There is currently no evidence that Iraq was any threat to us at all.
    You are correct; there is currently no evidence.


    Yes, Kerry certainly seemed to have access to fair and balanced intelligence reports, didn't he?

    Perhaps without these false reports, the rest of the world didn't see the need to go along with us.
    No he did not. Neither did Bush. Everyone was misled by the CIA.


    UN knew they had weapons of mass destruction you say?

    http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolit...NoReasonForWar
    1. Please find (you probably can) a less biased source for this information.

    2. We know he had them before, because he used them before. He had no records of what he did with them. This is a problem. A very large problem. Note Hans Blix's quote about records: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2558001.stm

    3. Hussein had kicked weapons inspectors out of the country before, and denied them access to certain places. This certainly shows that he had something to hide.

    4. Iraq is the size of California. Just because we haven't found them doesn't mean we never will.


    The difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals can at least take new information, revise their assumptions and admit they were wrong.
    We were probably wrong about the WMD. But pretty much everyone has stopped calling Bush a liar because it has become very clear that he was misled by the CIA just like everyone else. Either way, though Hussein had to go at some point. He was a destablilizing influence in a part of the world that is very important to our economy and thus to our national security.

    And what if Hussein had had WMD's? What if he did supply them to a terrorist group? Can you imagine a chemical attack in a city like New York? Personally, I think that the risk of that happening (which was at least a remote possibility, based on what we new at the time), is enough to justify a war. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    /karp

  21. No the difference between liberals and conservatives is conservatives don't have their saddles strapped on the fence...

    I actually was impressed with Kerry's speech but when it comes down to when the rubber meets the road, Kerry's speach didn't line up with his actions. Like for instance his track record for military spending and now he's all for increasing our defenses and destroying the enemy...his speech was entertaining, but whether he'll follow through is questionable.
    Last edited by stryder; 07-30-2004 at 09:45 PM.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    Because they've been doing business in the Middle East for years and thus already have the infrastructure in place to do the work. Awarding the bid to anyone else would have cost more time and money. Not that there's really very many (if any) other companies that have the capacity to do this kind of work on this scale.

    There is, BTW, not one shred of evidence that Cheney has lifted a finger to help Halliburton since he's been in office.

    /karp

    Isn;t that besides the point?? If Halliburton could do the work so much cheaper then why not open up the process to have more transparency?

    Not a single shred? Wasn't there news about Pentagon emails with Cheney's office and a recent article in the Time magazine?

    Isn't it more reasonable to assume cronyism on Bush's and Cheney's part due to their long association with the oil industry and Halliburton being a beneficiary of corporate welfare?

    What about Halliburton's oil scandal in Iraq?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    No he did not. Neither did Bush. Everyone was misled by the CIA.
    Yeah, everyone in the US. What about those other countries and the UN? Oh, right, they didn't want to go to war for a reason. Their intelligence sources didn't turn up any evidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    1. Please find (you probably can) a less biased source for this information.
    Is it biased, or does it just collect the facts relative to a particular point of view? There's a difference.

    The source you cited only had one quote from blix, and it's mentioned in my source.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    2. We know he had them before, because he used them before. He had no records of what he did with them.
    Yes, because we gave them to him. As you'll note from my original list, there was a huge amount of pressure on Iraq and they were cooperating more and more.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    3. Hussein had kicked weapons inspectors out of the country before, and denied them access to certain places. This certainly shows that he had something to hide.
    See my last comment. Maybe he was just a prick, until the gun was pointed at him. He certainly seemed to be cooperating at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    4. Iraq is the size of California. Just because we haven't found them doesn't mean we never will.
    Lesse, 18 months, 160k troops, offering rewards for info to half the population and torturing the everloving **** out of the other half... I'm willing to bet we're not going to find anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    We were probably wrong about the WMD. But pretty much everyone has stopped calling Bush a liar because it has become very clear that he was misled by the CIA just like everyone else.
    I find it interesting the one thing you failed to quote from my last post was the quote of the CIA official talking about "how the war is going to happen no matter what". Remember Richard Pearle? It seems pretty obvious that the administration got the intelligence results it wanted. Politics shaping intelligence reports.

    Anyways, who's stopped calling bush a liar? Look at his ridiculous and continued resistance to the 9/11 report which has been satisfyingly thorough and fair. Look at him and Cheney STILL (as of two or 3 weeks ago) insisting a link between Iraq and Al Qeada. Whatever. Rumsfeld met with Saddam in the 80's. I guess we must have a connection between the USA and Saddam, we'd better invade ourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    And what if Hussein had had WMD's? What if he did supply them to a terrorist group? Can you imagine a chemical attack in a city like New York? Personally, I think that the risk of that happening (which was at least a remote possibility, based on what we new at the time), is enough to justify a war. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
    Well, then call up the prez. Israel has unauthorized nukes. Pakistan too, and theyir scientists are selling nuke secrets. Oh, and Saudi Arabia seems to fund an awful lot of Al Qaeda activity, don't they? When you're done with that, we can hit Iran and Syria.

    Look at all the times Israel has defied the UN:

    http://www.middleeastnews.com/unresolutionslist.html

    Isreal nukes:
    http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/

    Pakistani nuke secrets sold to our enemies:

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapc...istan.nuclear/

    evidence that's more solid about iran and al queda than Iraq and any terrorist dealings:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5457389/site/newsweek/

    Evidence the saudi government may have directly funded 9/11 terrorists:

    http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/11/23/saudi.fbi.911/

    It'd be great if our bible thumping fundie leaders could tell Israel to go **** itself. In case you didn't notice, all of these religeous nutballs here (in the US) and in the middle east are the cause of all our troubles.


    Anyways, I'm done arguing about this. I'm sure that Bush will get re-elected this fall and continue to play into the terrorist's hands. At some point, the UN is going to have to come bail us out when all 3 billion Arabs are trying to kill us.

  24. I'm done too. Let's just agree to disagree for now, and see what happens in the election.

    I often tend to forget this:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Isn;t that besides the point?? If Halliburton could do the work so much cheaper then why not open up the process to have more transparency?

    Not a single shred? Wasn't there news about Pentagon emails with Cheney's office and a recent article in the Time magazine?

    Isn't it more reasonable to assume cronyism on Bush's and Cheney's part due to their long association with the oil industry and Halliburton being a beneficiary of corporate welfare?

    What about Halliburton's oil scandal in Iraq?
    nah bro. they're republicans. They're not about money or power...they just want what's best for you.

    ONLY halliburton can do the job. there's no other company that does oil exploration or services. There's no ties between
    bush, cheney and halliburton at all.

    I wonder what these people would have said if Clinton had simply picked a company for ALL govermental contracts and said that it was the best company because they are the cheapest.

    guys, can you not be a conservative and also be open minded and want to have a open govt.?

    i suppose you like patriot act 1 and 2 too?

    i'll leave you with a message.

    "But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing. It behooves you, therefore, to be watchful in your States as well as in the Federal Government." -- Andrew Jackson

    The great leaders of the past realised that the only real threat to America is from within the power structure.

    fiddler
  26. PC1
    PC1's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheesh
    ................Even though I say I'd align with the Republicans, I really don't consider myself a Republican. I think Chris Rock put it best in his "Never Scared" HBO Special. This quote isn't direct but...


    "I think all Republicans are idiots. I think all Democrats are idiots. Anyone who makes up their mind before they even hear an issue is a ****ING IDIOT".
    One of my cousins has a really great bumper sticker on her car..................


    Democrats.............. Republicans

    Same ****, different pile.


  27. PC1
    PC1's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by jweave23
    ...........I thought he did as well as can be expected of him, in fact I thought it was a pretty good speech ........

    I actually thought he did a good job with his speech and overall presentation as well. I don't believe it will have mattered one way or another in the end, but he did a good job.

    I have to say that the part of the DNC I enjoyed the best was when one of his daughters was recounting a childhood episode when her pet hamster in it's cage fell into the water and Kerry dove into the water to rescue it. Apparently he dove repeatedly in order to save it and was able to do so successfully, even giving it mild CPR. It was funny to see Ted Kennedy's reaction to this story, squirming and writhing in his chair like the guy in the TV commercial............. you know the one? The dude who forgot his Preparation H at home? Yeah, you could just see the Mary Jo Kopechne incident tape reels playing vividly in his mind during that one.......

    Sorry Weave, couldn't resist

  28. that's hilarious. the bumper sticker and kennedy. either he doesn't like the story or he needs preparation H!

    too bad the republican's that promised term limits for senators lied their ass off.

    i guess the best we can do is to get along as well as we can with the 2 partys since there won't be any change any time soon.

    bummer.

    fiddler

  29. Kerry will have trouble defending his record. The call for a truce with Bush on Negative campaigning is completely hypocritical. To be fair, Bush's ads are certainly negative.
    I'll say it again, the democrats should have nominated more of a moderate. America isn't going to elect Mr. #1 Liberal and Mr. #4 Liberal - or a Senator from Mass.
    The party has no room for moderates. Liberman, Bill Richardson (although he was chairman of the DNC), and guys like Zell Miller have been basically ignored.
    It is the party of the Clintons, Gores, Kerrys, Deans, Sharptons, etc.
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  30. Doudes you listen to Hannity don't ya.

    Check out this link.
    http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com

    Some war hero... What a tool
  

  
 

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