Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    This is my EXACT POINT! If you want to spread is hearsay or conspiracy then please do so. That's why I've posted Google links to dispute some of your points because much of those actually contain facts.

    Also I'm sure there are more than a few things that don't match up, well because how could everything line up on a day where thousands of our citizens were killed, and commercial planes were flown into buildings?
    How do you know they were all airplanes? Can you give me a google link to a clear video to the Pentagon crash? They have alot of video of that from multiple angles you know, and multiple directions from multiple areas. This is an indisputable fact at the most heavily guarded and surveilled area on the planet. I dont wanna see that 5 frame clip either. Im sure you can find it since they force feed the population with the WTC crash over and over again.
    This message was paid for by the Russians


  2. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    How do you know they were all airplanes? Can you give me a google link to a clear video to the Pentagon crash? They have alot of video of that from multiple angles you know, and multiple directions from multiple areas. This is an indisputable fact at the most heavily guarded and surveilled area on the planet. I dont wanna see that 5 frame clip either. Im sure you can find it since they force feed the population with the WTC crash over and over again.
    What may have caused the explosion to be a different color than the WTC crash? Do commercial airlines use different fuel, like unleaded and diesel? Maybe the pilot added some STP fuel cleaner before takeoff?

    (note: This is all the video the pentagon has? lol)


    This message was paid for by the Russians
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post

    How do you know they were all airplanes? Can you give me a google link to a clear video to the Pentagon crash? They have alot of video of that from multiple angles you know, and multiple directions from multiple areas. This is an indisputable fact at the most heavily guarded and surveilled area on the planet. I dont wanna see that 5 frame clip either. Im sure you can find it since they force feed the population with the WTC crash over and over again.
    Can you give me a google link to a video showing it wasn't an airplane?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Can you give me a google link to a video showing it wasn't an airplane?
    You have to look at it scientifically. First off there is no blackbox, so they claim. Second, they are withholding video's which is the the point to fight for more transparency. Then you have to have an analysis of the photo's that were provided which dont resemble evidence of a plane crash other than a scrap here and there. 4th, the maneuverability of the airplane requires extreme skill that an amateur pilot with no training in a huge airplane is not capable of. Even the directer of the school of the supposed hijacker said the maneuver was impossible.
    This message was paid for by the Russians

  5. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Can you give me a google link to a video showing it wasn't an airplane?
    Which is a great question because nobody knows what hit the Pentagon.
    This message was paid for by the Russians
    •   
       


  6. Just a flashback, and goodnight folks!

    Owner Larry Silverstein stating on PBS that he made the call to pull the building.



    This message was paid for by the Russians

  7. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    You have to look at it scientifically. First off there is no blackbox, so they claim. Second, they are withholding video's which is the the point to fight for more transparency. Then you have to have an analysis of the photo's that were provided which dont resemble evidence of a plane crash other than a scrap here and there. 4th, the maneuverability of the airplane requires extreme skill that an amateur pilot with no training in a huge airplane is not capable of. Even the directer of the school of the supposed hijacker said the maneuver was impossible.



    Well there is this which is all based on science and math.


    http://911review.com/articles/stjarn...actdamage.html

  8. Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    Well there is this which is all based on science and math.


    http://911review.com/articles/stjarn...actdamage.html
    while it is true that math and science don't lie, it is also true that the people who do the math and science often do....
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  9. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post

    while it is true that math and science don't lie, it is also true that the people who do the math and science often do....
    Its strange to me that you say this, not because its untrue, or even because its out of character for you (it is a common theme in your posting, which I certainly can't fault you for)

    Really, the strange part is that you never seem to bring up the possibility of the people quoted or the information linked being false, except when it corroborates the 'official' story. Is it impossible to believe that the people claiming our government planned it are the ones that are lying?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Its strange to me that you say this, not because its untrue, or even because its out of character for you (it is a common theme in your posting, which I certainly can't fault you for)

    Really, the strange part is that you never seem to bring up the possibility of the people quoted or the information linked being false, except when it corroborates the 'official' story. Is it impossible to believe that the people claiming our government planned it are the ones that are lying?
    lol...it is not strange to me for you to post this!!! you have a history of disagreeing with me, is it impossible to believe i might be right and you be wrong?
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  11. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post

    lol...it is not strange to me for you to post this!!! you have a history of disagreeing with me, is it impossible to believe i might be right and you be wrong?
    While it is true that my opinion differs from yours in a lot of ways, that really doesn't have much to do with this.

    You are always talking about how people lie, and unfortunately it's true people lie all the time. But, for whatever reason, in this thread you seem to only believe the people that back the official story are lying.

    Which is certainly your right, but it doesn't seem to be any sort of evidence that leads to this. So it just seems strange that you would so strongly support certain members of the government with no evidence but wouldn't support other members of the government.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Its strange to me that you say this, not because its untrue, or even because its out of character for you (it is a common theme in your posting, which I certainly can't fault you for) Really, the strange part is that you never seem to bring up the possibility of the people quoted or the information linked being false, except when it corroborates the 'official' story. Is it impossible to believe that the people claiming our government planned it are the ones that are lying?


    This is the common theme that all conspiracy theorist's share. If it doesn't corroborate their version of the story it must be hogwash, lies, and illogical.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    While it is true that my opinion differs from yours in a lot of ways, that really doesn't have much to do with this.

    You are always talking about how people lie, and unfortunately it's true people lie all the time. But, for whatever reason, in this thread you seem to only believe the people that back the official story are lying.

    Which is certainly your right, but it doesn't seem to be any sort of evidence that leads to this. So it just seems strange that you would so strongly support certain members of the government with no evidence but wouldn't support other members of the government.
    i am flattered that you are so concerned with what i think, thank you!!!
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  14. Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    Well there is this which is all based on science and math.


    http://911review.com/articles/stjarn...actdamage.html
    There is alot of evidence and science lacking on that website about the Pentagon that I have run into over the years that is missing on that website. For example, and Ill just post one to keep my posts short, how is it possible that a amateur pilot can maneuver the plane in such as complicated fashion when his own flight school director confirmed it was impossible to do so. And you know your still posting "theories" as to what happened that day, right?

    You can look at that stuff, but there is far more evidence and material to consider by other professionals.

    I wish the mysterious website your posting (who is it by and why I cant find it) had a working link up so I can check the source.
    This message was paid for by the Russians

  15. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i am flattered that you are so concerned with what i think, thank you!!!
    Its always going to be about you, your psychology, and not specifically the topic. "Such as, scientist discovered nano-thermite at the WTC site, yet NIST didnt check for explosives." Response: You believe anything that confirms your biases.

    Or, "Transportation Secretary's testimony said Cheney held a standown order as the plane approached the pentagon from 50 miles out until impact".....Response, "You did not provide any evidence to prove anything."

    Or Larry Silvertein admitted on PBS he called the shot to take the building down, Response: I can make up stories too!
    This message was paid for by the Russians

  16. Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    This is the common theme that all conspiracy theorist's share. If it doesn't corroborate their version of the story it must be hogwash, lies, and illogical.
    And your issue is that its sooo personally so illogical to you, you refuse to even at minimum contemplate professionals from many fields such a military to the scientists that also question the official story. I try to post legitimate material to consider, and all I hear from you is "conspiracy this or conspiracy that, google this and that, blah blah you wear a tin foil." Thats not right.

    For example, I can post this link from the" Pilots for 9/11 truth" website that has a scientific look at the event and provides their version of theories and evidence to support the claim in regards to the Pentagon incident and flight 77.
    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon.html

    Then you start looking who made the website, who supports and funds it and take it from there. Here for example I found a list of the supporters.
    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

    I will copy and past some from the list with full details of their backgrounds.

    But somehow some way, I know none of this matters to you and you will totally reject it without reason other than you found a google link with bitty info.

    Make it about who backs and is behind the info, not what some dude on a bodybuilding forum supports because Im really nothing.

    Acronyms
    TT = Total [Flight] Time
    CA = Captain
    FO = First Officer
    FE = Flight Engineer
    CFI = Certified Flight Instructor
    II = Instrument Instructor
    MEI = Multiengine Instructor
    ASEL = Airplane Single Engine Land
    ATP = Airline Transport Pilot
    A&P = Aircraft And Powerplant Mechanic



    CORE MEMBERS LISTED IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY JOINED.
    LIST UPDATED REGULARLY.

    Robert Balsamo
    4000TT Commercial, Instrument, Multi, CFI II MEI
    Corporate Chief Pilot
    135 Capt
    121 FO Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines
    King Air C-90/200, Dornier 328JET

    Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret)
    30,000+ Total Flight Time
    707, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC-8, L-1049, Learjet 24/25, L-188
    Ground Instructor, Advanced Ground Instructor, Instrument Instructor, Flight Engineer Turbojet
    Aircraft Dispatcher
    Pan Am, United
    United States Air Force (ret)
    Over 100 Combat Missions Flown
    Command time in:
    - N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93)
    - N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175)

    Captain Ross Aimer
    United Airlines, Retired
    B-777/767/757/747/737/727/720/707, DC-10/-9/-8 Type ratings
    Command time in:
    - N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93)
    - N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175)

    Commander Ralph “Rotten” Kolstad
    23,000 hours
    27 years in the airlines
    B757/767 for 13 years mostly international Captain with American Airlines.
    20 years US Navy flying fighters off aircraft carriers, TopGun twice
    civilian pilot flying gliders, light airplanes and warbirds
    Command time in:
    - N644AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 77)
    - N334AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 11)

    John Lear
    Son of Bill Lear
    (Founder, creator of the Lear Jet Corporation)
    More than 40 years of Flying
    19,000+ TT
    23 Type ratings
    Flight experience includes 707, DC-8, 727, L10-11

    Jeff Latas
    -Over 20 years in the USAF
    --USAF Accident investigation Board President
    --Aeronautical Engineer
    --Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E
    --Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch
    --Weapons Requirements Officer, USAF HQ, Pentagon
    --Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level
    -Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways

    Guy S. Razer, LtCol, USAF (Ret)
    3,500+ Hours Total Flight Time
    F-15E/C, F-111A/D/E/F/EF, F-16, F-18, B-1, Mig-29, SU-22, T-37/38, Various Cvilian Prop
    Combat Time: Operation Northern Watch
    USAF Fighter Weapons School Instructor
    NATO Tactical Leadership Program Instructor/Mission Coordinator
    USAF Material Command Weapons Development Test Pilot
    Combat Support Coordination Team 2 Airpower Coordinator, South Korea
    All Service Combat Identification Evaluation Team Operations Officer
    Boeing F-22 Pilot Instructor
    MS Aeronautical Studies, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University

    Dwain Deets
    MS Physics, MS Eng
    Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
    Served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden
    Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award
    Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988)
    Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics
    Associate Fellow - American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA)
    Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000
    Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems
    - Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers
    Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology
    37 year NASA career

    Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford
    United States Marine Corps (ret)
    A-4 Skyhawk, KC-130 (10,000+ Hours)
    S-2, T-1, F9F, F-11, OV-10, T-2J
    303 Combat Missions

    Captain Paul A. Trood
    B737-800/400 Captain
    Qantas Airways
    Australia
    Experience: 18,000 flight hours

    Jim Mustanich
    ATP 20,000+ hours
    Typed in CE-500, DHC-7, EMB-110, BA-3100
    Aircraft flown include Boeing 727,737, Douglas DC-9, MD-80
    United Air Lines, American International Airlines, Air Pacific Airlines, West Air Airlines
    6-7 years corporate flying in Cessna Citations
    Factory demo pilot for Cessna Citations

    Ted Muga
    Naval Aviator - Retired Commander, USNR
    A/C experience - Grumman E-1 and E-2 ( Approx, 3800 hours )
    Pan American World Airways - Retired Dec. 1991 ( that's when PanAM went bankrupt )
    Flight Engineer/First Officer -- Boeing 707 & Boeing 727 ( approx. 7500 hours )

    Col Robert Bowman
    President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies
    Executive Vice President of Millennium III Corporation
    retired Presiding Archbishop of the United Catholic Church
    101 combat missions in Vietnam
    directed all the “Star Wars” programs under Presidents Ford and Carter
    recipient of the Eisenhower Medal
    George F. Kennan Peace Prize
    President’s Medal of Veterans for Peace
    Society of Military Engineers' ROTC Award of Merit (twice)
    Six Air Medals
    Ph.D. is in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from Caltech
    chaired 8 major international conferences
    one of the country’s foremost experts on National Security
    independent candidate for President of the US in 2000
    http://thepatriots.us

    John Panarelli
    friend and fellow aviator of John Ogonowski - Capt. AA #11
    ATP: L-300, B-737, DC-10, DC-8, FE, TT=approx. 11,000 hours
    USAF-C141-IP, Eastern Metro, Braniff, Ryan International, Emery
    Worldwide, Polar Air Cargo


    "DG"
    10,000TT
    Chief Pilot of Casino Express airlines
    Director of Operations Training at Polar Air
    Cargo, and Asst. Chief Pilot for Presidential Air
    Manager of Flying for Eastern Airlines
    Falcon 900 and a G-200
    Check Captain
    B737,A300, Da-50, G-200 and C-500
    FE, A&P.

    Dennis Spear
    Army Aviator
    20+ years - United States Army
    7000 TT in a variety of fixed and rotary wing aircraft
    C-23, C-7, U-21,U-8, T-39, EH-60, UH-60, UH-1, OH-58
    Instrument Flight Examiner, Fixed Wing Instructor Pilot, H-60
    Maintenance Test Pilot
    Operations Officer, Aviation Safety Officer
    FAA Commercial Pilot
    - ASMEL, Rotorcraft Helicopter, Instrument Airplane/Helicopter

    Scott Burley
    747-400 First Officer
    United Airlines
    22 Years

    Bill Credle
    Aviation Maintenance Technician
    American Airlines
    17 Years

    Tony Ryan
    Warrant Officer RAAF (ret)
    Former Royal Australian Air Force
    Served between 18thFeb1958 and 21March1981
    Flight Engineer on C130A, C130E, C130H and B707
    Cathay Pacific Airways
    L1011 Tristar Flight Engineer, B747-200, B747-300 and B747-200F
    10000+ TT FE
    Australian Private Pilot License
    300 hours on C150, C152, C172, C172RG and Piper Archer aircraft

    Alfons Olszewski
    Veterans For Truth
    Vietnam Veteran
    Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief
    MOS: 67V20
    qualified on Cobras, Hueys, and Loch Helicopters

    George Nelson
    Colonel USAF (Ret.)
    30 year career managing aircraft maintenance activities
    Licensed commercial pilot
    Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic
    Aircraft accident investigator

    Larry Patriarca
    USN Aviation Structural Mechanic
    VAQ 135, EA-6B Squadron, 1983-86
    Coordinator for Central Mass 9/11 Truth Alliance
    Member of Veterans for 9/11 Truth
    Associate Member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth

    Captain Steve Nieman
    30 year Capt with Horizon Air
    Q400

    Joel Skousen
    USMC Fighter/Attack Pilot (Vietnam Era)
    1000+ TT, F-4, A-4, F-9, T-2C, various civilian planes
    Commercial Pilot w/ Instrument, multi-engine ratings
    EAA and AOPA member

    Colonel Michael Harley USAF (ret)
    Command pilot
    ~ 6000 Total Flight Time
    T-38,T-33, T-37,T-39, C-47, U-6, Uh-1, C130A, B, E, &
    prototype H, Kc-135 and B-52.
    26 years commissioned. 34 Years total service USAF Accident Investigator
    Instructor Accident Investigation, Embry-Riddle University
    Management analyst and IG, simulator instructor,
    Instructor Pilot, Standardization Evaluation Pilot,
    Chief of Standardization of a Sac Wing equipped with B-52, RC-135 and Kc-135
    Flew Cessna 177, Twin Bonanza, Cherokee-6
    ~200 hours as civilian private pilot
    Newspaper columnist for 10 years, now a freelance writer

    Mathias Frey
    Switzerland
    C340, C402
    CPL/IR
    ATPL “frozen”
    500 hrs TT
    3000+ hrs on ASTRAS, INTRAS and TOSIM, ATC Simulation
    Assistant JAR OPS Transition Air Engiadina
    Project Manager Air Alps Aviation

    Jeff Dahlstrom
    C-141 pilot in the early 70's during the Vietnam era:
    2nd AF, 432nd MAWg, 18th Sq, MacGuire AFB, NJ.
    Pilot training was class 70-06, at Laughlin AFB, Tx

    Joe H. Ferguson
    Retired Capt.
    30,000TT
    5,000 FE
    USAF Ret.
    T-6, T -28, B-25, B-29, KC-97
    Frontier, Continental Airlines
    DC - 3, CV 580, B737, MD80, DC10

    Bill Reyes
    Caravan Pilot for UPS Feeder
    Commercial, Instrument,
    Multi Engine, Flight Instructor
    1500 TT
    Ex Lieutenant USN Horn Of Africa/ Persian Gulf 02-03
    Aboard USS Nassau (LHA-4)

    Capt. Omar Pradhan
    U.S. Air Force – AWACS command pilot
    Flight Instructor U.S. Air Force Academy
    Planes flown: Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS (militarized Boeing 707-320B)
    1,900+ hours flight time (350+ hours of combat air time over Afghanistan and Iraq)

    Jared Eastley
    5000 + TT
    Airplane, Single & Multi-Engine Land, CFII, MEI, ATP
    SWIV (Metroliner) - Single Pilot
    Business Charter and Air Ambulance Pilot

    Mike Aybar
    Aircraft Maintenance Technician, Crew Chief
    American Airlines

    "Steven"
    Canada ATC (in training)

    James Edward Forst
    First Officer EMB-145 Trans States Airlines
    UND summa cum laude December 2006
    Degree in Commercial Aviation and Aviation Management
    CFI, CFII, and MEI 65% type CRJ

    Hammish Brannan
    Former United Kingdom air defense ground enviroment (UKADGE) RADAR technician
    Primary and secondary ground radar systems
    ATC & airborne systems (including radio) as an instructor for the Ministry of Defence (MOD)

    Didier "Jay" Weenen
    BAF retired
    SIAI SF 260M, Potez Fouga Magister, BA/Do Alpha Jet,
    F16A, C130H, C153, C172, C182, L45, various gliders

    "Wes"
    MD-88 American Airlines

    Peter Rapp
    Austria
    PPL/IFR 950TT
    Piper Turbo Arrow, PA32T Saratoga,
    Cessna 172, Cessna 182T Garmin1000
    Carry out business flights for clients and Co-Pi on Turbine Malibu and Beech90 Kingair.

    Erin Myers
    600TT
    Private Pilot (single engine, land, VFR)
    Cessna, Piper, Waco, Pitts, Citabria
    R22s and a JetRanger.
    Army Aviation 68G (maintenance and repair):
    Blackhawk, Apache and OH58.
    FAA A&P Mechanic
    Experimental Aircraft Builder
    1990 KitFox.Lanceair, Glassair, variety of Micro and Ultra lights.

    Sean Dulac
    Private Pilot
    500TT

    Christina Merrick
    12,000+ TT ATP
    A&P, CFIAIM, FE Turbojet
    B-727, DC-9, SNJ-5, (T-6)
    Navion and Bellanca Viking Current
    Advanced Instructing
    Consultant for AOPA Legal Attorneys
    Eastern Airlines, ValuJet
    Fellow Pilot and Friend of Captain Candi Chamberlain Kubeck
    ValuJet flight 592, brought down in the Everglades May 1996

    Dave Kisor
    Former Aviation Electrician
    USN / USNR Worked on A-4E/F, TA-4F/J
    & A-7B/E ashore and afloat (CV-19, CV-43)
    P-3B & C-9B. Back seat TA-4F/J & A-4F NWL
    Flight & hangar deck fire fighting qualified
    Jumped from UH-1N
    BA & MA in Geography
    Presently employed US Forest Service
    Technician at the Riverside CA Fire Laboratory

    Slawomir M. Kozak
    Air Traffic Controller
    Warsaw International Airport Tower Control Supervisor
    On Job Training Unit Chief
    Former President of Polish Air Traffic Controllers Association
    Former member of Polish Airports State Enterprise Employee’s Council
    Member of National Aviation Council
    Member of International Aviation English Association
    Journalist of aviation magazines
    "National Geographic" aviation consultant
    Author of Two Books related to 9/11. Currently working on third - Demons Of Extermination
    Books Available here

    Timothy Young
    Comm, Inst, ME, Land & Sea, CFI
    Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic
    10,000+ Hrs. PIC
    Aircraft Owner & Aviation Business Operator for 27 years

    Greg Stone
    Flight Attendant
    American Airlines
    LAX-I, 31-years

    Michael Herzog
    Private Pilot
    Multi Engine Rated
    1500TT
    150, 152, 172, 210, Cherokee 140, Warrior, Twin Aerocommander
    Profession : Talk Show Host
    Oraclebroadcasting.com


    Rodger Herbst
    777 and 787 Aeronautics
    Flight Controls and Simulation Engineering

    Jeff Beck
    Commercial, Instrument

    Craig Hill
    Post Solo Student Pilot
    Ran as 9/11 Truth candidate for US Senate for Vermont in 2004 and 2006.
    Producer of "Treason Inc"
    Founder of the Green Party of Vermont
    Helped organize four 9/11 Truth candidates appearing on statewide ballot in Vermont in 2006
    Appeared on many televised debates promoting 9/11awareness
    Public Appearances -
    -C-SPAN2, Called for the arrest and removal of Bush, Cheney and much of DC for treason
    -Spoken on 9/11 panels and podiums in many venues around the country, from NYC on several occasions
    -9/11 Boston Tea Party at historic Faneuil Hall
    -The Alex Jones-organized 9/11 event in LA
    -The 2006 event in Chicago
    Currently organizing impeachment drives in Vt and around the country to
    broaden 9/11 awareness and surreptitiously expose the perps in proposed
    congressional hearings in 2007.

    Fredrick W. Harvey
    Pilot
    Silver Star
    Bronze Star
    Three Purple Hearts
    Two Tours in Vietnam

    John W. Travis, MD, MPH
    Preventive Medicine, (Johns Hopkins)
    Founder, first wellness center in US
    Retired Pilot

    Lisa Long
    Private Pilot, Single Engine Land
    1978
    http://AngelsForTruth.com

    Art Carran
    Commercial Certificate
    Instrument Rating
    350 Hours TT
    Piper, Beech, and Cessna single-engine aircraft
    Professional Engineer, State of Ohio
    Aerospace Engineer

    Harold Saive
    Private Pilot
    Single Engine Land

    Captain Keith West (ret)
    Continental Airlines
    20,000 + Total Flight Time
    Lear Jet, MD80, 737

    Daniel G. Martinez
    Blackhawk and Turbine Engine Mech
    18 year A&P
    L-3 Vertex, Iraq

    Pieter Lathuy
    Capt A330/A340
    Emirates Airline
    Ex Belgian Air Force F-16

    Adam Shaw
    Wingman CAPTENS.fr Aerobatic Airshow team
    Former UPI and Washington Post reporter
    Author SOUND OF IMPACT "The Legacy of TWA # 514", Viking Press , N.Y(1977)
    4500 hrs TT. Aerobatic, Mountain, Seaplane Instructor-Pilot

    Gordon Price
    36 Yrs Airline
    B744 A340, A330, A320, L1011,DC-8, DC-9, Vanguard, Viscount
    6 Yrs RCAF - CF-104 F-86

    Jacob Moncrief
    EMB-145 Captain
    ExpressJet Airlines
    3000TT

    Naomi Watson
    Flight Attendant - Delta Airlines
    Based Atlanta

    James M. Craven
    Commerical, Instrument
    Ground Instructor (Advanced and Instrument)
    Professor of Economics
    Chairman Business Division
    Clark College in Vancouver, WA.

    Captain R Bruce Sinclair
    Leduc, Alberta, Canada
    44 years flying experience
    19,600+ hours
    Boeing 727, Boeing 737-100, 200, 300, 400, 500, Airbus A300-B4, Lear 35,
    Cessna Citation II, DHC-8, King Air 200, DC-3
    Trained as a Performance Engineer at Boeing and instructed performance
    on Boeing 727, 737 and Airbus A300B4
    Currently flying a executive/medevac Lear 35A

    Ron Larsen
    ASEL, Commercial, Instrument,
    900 hrs TT
    PhD in Applied Physics and Materials Science,
    Cornell University, 1973.
    First licensed in 1968 and fairly active through 1992,
    flying Beechcraft, Mooney, Cessna and Piper A/C.
    9/11 researcher for several years.
    Publisher/Editor of LibertyCalling.com (www.libertycalling.com) since 2002.
    Broadcaster since 1950.
    Host of the Liberty Calling Beacon live radio program

    Richard Rogers
    Army Guard
    Active duty Air Force in Nov 1982 with a honorable separation in Dec 1992.
    70250 administration troop
    Retrained into F-16/A-10 integrated avionics systems
    Only troop to pass the 5 level upgrade testing (45155)
    Shaw AFB, SC or RAF Bentwaters, England

    Captain Donald D. Halpenny Retired
    Ozark , TWA , and AA

    And it continues on and on.
    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html
    This message was paid for by the Russians

  17. Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    This is my EXACT POINT! If you want to spread is hearsay or conspiracy then please do so. That's why I've posted Google links to dispute some of your points because much of those actually contain facts.

    Also I'm sure there are more than a few things that don't match up, well because how could everything line up on a day where thousands of our citizens were killed, and commercial planes were flown into buildings?
    So the sum of my story is that I dont understand why you dont at minimum consider and contemplate certain information, but take the simple route of jumping to conclusions of biased propaganda evidence lacking material from all of the posts I put up over and over again including posts backed by independent professionals from the field including military who also question the official story just like me, who question the very material your posting thats backed by the people being accused.

    My Architects and Engineers specific information is backed by 2,300+ professional Architects and Engineers with degrees, who supports your google link, the goverment? The ones being accused of staging the event? You going by Popular Mechanics who have a large contract with the US Military? (Point, goverment connection, material backed by the accused)

    Ill tell you right now if there is a large scale independent investigation/commision (not appointed by our goverment, especially by the ones getting accused) Popular Mechanics and all the google links you posted are more than welcome to attend any testimony, scientific debate/discussion and have their side heard.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    There is alot of evidence and science lacking on that website about the Pentagon that I have run into over the years that is missing on that website. For example, and Ill just post one to keep my posts short, how is it possible that a amateur pilot can maneuver the plane in such as complicated fashion when his own flight school director confirmed it was impossible to do so. And you know your still posting "theories" as to what happened that day, right? You can look at that stuff, but there is far more evidence and material to consider by other professionals. I wish the mysterious website your posting (who is it by and why I cant find it) had a working link up so I can check the source.

    Again your response of how an amateur pilot could make such a complicated maneuver when a flight school instructor said it was possible is not a fact. It's hearsay. Did you ever think that maybe he got lucky??

    And what I posted about the plane that hit the pentagon isn't really a theory. It uses science and math to show how the angle of the plane hit, it uses math to show the distance between the columns and directly related it back and matches the size of the airplane.

    And EVEN if that would be considered a theory, it's a much better theory than the theory of some guys saying it was an impossible maneuver.

  19. You say to make it about who backs the info. That's completely what I'm doing. Science and math back the info that I've presented. For example the first post you linked doesn't have any facts it's ALL questions and conspiracy.

    The first paragraph in the link is nothing but agenda pushing garbage. It tried to question and dismiss the fact the the plane and the pilot could have gotten taken over from " a five foot man weighing 100 lbs using a boxcutter." Lol and you're the one telling me I need to see who is backing the info. One sentence into it I could tell the obvious slant in perspective.

    Again I'm not saying there isn't plenty of govt. cover up, but I'm basing my opinion on at least some sort of science and not on "what some guy said," or that is wasn't possible because "he was a little guy" type of reason.

    Furthermore I'm not dismissing what you're sayin as questions that you present and other presented are not legitimate questions that shouldn't be asked.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    Again your response of how an amateur pilot could make such a complicated maneuver when a flight school instructor said it was possible is not a fact. It's hearsay. Did you ever think that maybe he got lucky??

    And what I posted about the plane that hit the pentagon isn't really a theory. It uses science and math to show how the angle of the plane hit, it uses math to show the distance between the columns and directly related it back and matches the size of the airplane.

    And EVEN if that would be considered a theory, it's a much better theory than the theory of some guys saying it was an impossible maneuver.
    Thats good, your questioning the story, we have to not only add in the theory if he was lucky but also match up the flight data records with the given flight which is another issue Pilots for 9/11 truth bring about. We can start bringing together the most likely hypothesis with the least likely, being "lucky" so far would be least likely but it all counts.

    We are both posting scientific and math theory based on what type of information available to them. Does your source even cover the flight data records in detail like the Pilot's for 9/11 truth do for example?

    If the hijackers airline school director's (supported by many other professional pilots that I started sourcing on here) statement about the maneuver being impossible means nothing to you I have nothing to comment on that.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    You say to make it about who backs the info. That's completely what I'm doing. Science and math back the info that I've presented. For example the first post you linked doesn't have any facts it's ALL questions and conspiracy.

    The first paragraph in the link is nothing but agenda pushing garbage. It tried to question and dismiss the fact the the plane and the pilot could have gotten taken over from " a five foot man weighing 100 lbs using a boxcutter." Lol and you're the one telling me I need to see who is backing the info. One sentence into it I could tell the obvious slant in perspective.

    Again I'm not saying there isn't plenty of govt. cover up, but I'm basing my opinion on at least some sort of science and not on "what some guy said," or that is wasn't possible because "he was a little guy" type of reason.

    Furthermore I'm not dismissing what you're sayin as questions that you present and other presented are not legitimate questions that shouldn't be asked.
    Yes yes, and I said I welcome them of course. I dont think everything you post is "garbage."

    I welcome a scientific explanation at an investigative panel on how paper passes through jet fuel explosions, how a fire can perfectly collapse a steel structure building, and how metal on cars were toasted 7 blocks away with their rubber still intact.

    If you are basing my debate on "what some guy" said your totally ignoring all the scientific analysis that has over and over again been posted here by many experts in the field. Your just cherry picking the weakest parts of my presentation to disregard all the science and expert analysis.
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Yes yes, and I said I welcome them of course. I dont think everything you post is "garbage."

    I welcome a scientific explanation at an investigative panel on how paper passes through jet fuel explosions, how a fire can perfectly collapse a steel structure building, and how metal on cars were toasted 7 blocks away with their rubber still intact.

    If you are basing my debate on "what some guy" said your totally ignoring all the scientific analysis that has over and over again been posted here by many experts in the field. Your just cherry picking the weakest parts of my presentation to disregard all the science and expert analysis.
    While it does seem unlikely; its not implausible that a passport could have been recovered. In other crash sites personal effects like shoes, photos etc. were found despite the plane they were carried in slamming into ground at 500+mph. Other flammable objects such as a cushion and mail were reportedly found from airlines that crashed into the buildings. Mail, which is also paper, was recovered from a plane that crashed into the building. Can it too be likely that a passport was also recovered? After-all, do we even know where he stored his passport? He checked in with it, but that doesn't mean he kept it on his person. To assume that he did could be the reason this is so hard to believe.

    It also begs the question; would whoever you claim planted it be so dumb as to plant something that couldn't have possibly survived an inferno? I mean seriously. If the govt. can think of such a twisted plot as this one, what did they gain by planting something which could not have survived? I find it funny how people assume they can think more logically than the entire CIA on this matter (if they are the ones to have assumed to have planted it). Would an intelligence officer be so dumb as to make such a stupid error? Moreover, the command to plant it would have needed to come from someone higher up which suggests those even higher are stupid.

    http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_...rrTrav_Ch2.pdf

    I do agree that there are facts that may have been omitted, changed or completely distorted as things like 9/11 could not have happened without a series of unfortunate events occurring in sequence. But just remember that something like this had not been done before, nor do I think that anyone would have anticipated that it could ever happen without someone discovering the plot prior and so all these possibilities may have come to fruition SIMPLY because people did not think it could happen.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    While it does seem unlikely; its not implausible that a passport could have been recovered. In other crash sites personal effects like shoes, photos etc. were found despite the plane they were carried in slamming into ground at 500+mph. Other flammable objects such as a cushion and mail were reportedly found from airlines that crashed into the buildings. Mail, which is also paper, was recovered from a plane that crashed into the building. Can it too be likely that a passport was also recovered? After-all, do we even know where he stored his passport? He checked in with it, but that doesn't mean he kept it on his person. To assume that he did could be the reason this is so hard to believe.

    It also begs the question; would whoever you claim planted it be so dumb as to plant something that couldn't have possibly survived an inferno? I mean seriously. If the govt. can think of such a twisted plot as this one, what did they gain by planting something which could not have survived? I find it funny how people assume they can think more logically than the entire CIA on this matter (if they are the ones to have assumed to have planted it). Would an intelligence officer be so dumb as to make such a stupid error? Moreover, the command to plant it would have needed to come from someone higher up which suggests those even higher are stupid.



    http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_...rrTrav_Ch2.pdf
    Keep in mind, the passport evidence shouldnt be the main focal point of the 9/11 investigation, but I do think its a valid point and you certainly need to include the possibility that it survived the crash, what survived in all the crashes and have a review of the history of crashes.

    I do think there is a difference between planes that have crashed the ground and the ones that crashed into the building that produced massive explosions. However there are many things to be considered and there probably is not a way to come up with a conclusive answer unless you get a whistelblower (who you shouldnt necessarily trust) or some unclassified documents leaking out a specific passport planting incident.

    So we have the WTC crash passport looking in good condition, it had to survive the massive jet fuel blast burns between 800-1500 degrees. They could probably run experimental tests using the same material of the passport to see if even if it didnt touch fire, how close can it be from the heat before its is damage and how fast can the passport travel and do some mathematical equations and come up with odds of its survival.




    Now we have the passport recovered from the Pentagon crash, it did produce a fire ball but the crash wasnt far up in the sky, and of course we need to question where the passport was such was it in his pocket or did he happen to lay it out on the dashboard or carry on for example.

    The Pentagon passport was severely damaged.


    The Flight 93 crash site looks interesting, as it doesnt look like any other plane crash site Ive seen (so thats a different topic for this post,) but regardless this is the site, and its a big burnt crater


    They recovered the passport from that site and it looks like this,


    Here is a business card, a terrorist headband, and some other things from flight 93 recovered.




    But somehow, there was no identifiable steel titanium engine at the Flight 93 open ground crash site,



    Anyways, the point Im somehow trying to make here is that there are alot of questions to the official story. This post is just a very few of many. Seeing what was recovered, I want the black boxes, thats one of the reasons I post the passport thing to get people thinking about where the blackboxes are. I do not believe all 4 blackboxes are missing, so the fight here would be to pressure the goverment to release the tapes.

    Ultimately we are handed down with these exhibits from the goverment and people need to make their own judgment on things.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    without someone discovering the plot prior and so all these possibilities may have come to fruition SIMPLY because people did not think it could happen.
    For this topic, you can look into insider trading stock markets as well as how people were warned not to be in NYC that day or were there and were told to leave beforehand.
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post

    For this topic, you can look into insider trading stock markets as well as how people were warned not to be in NYC that day or were there and were told to leave beforehand.
    Yeah it is a shady shady web thats for sure.

    You would think though that your average joe demolition man would have been like "I rigged building 7" because why wouldnt he?
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  26. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Yeah it is a shady shady web thats for sure.

    You would think though that your average joe demolition man would have been like "I rigged building 7" because why wouldnt he?
    We do know George Bush's brother Marvin Bush principled a security company called Securacom which ran the WTC security up to the day of 9/11 which is something I never seen discussed on the mainstream.

    There also is larger amount of documented power outages, evacuations and whole floor shutdowns for weeks prior to 9/11. I would look to verify that and investigate why that is so, as well as look into the history of maintenance of the WTC site to look for abnormal activity should those records even exist anymore.

    Again, none of this necessarily proves anything but its all a part of a compilation should you have a real investigation.
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    We do know George Bush's brother Marvin Bush principled a security company called Securacom which ran the WTC security up to the day of 9/11 which is something I never seen discussed on the mainstream.

    There also is larger amount of documented power outages, evacuations and whole floor shutdowns for weeks prior to 9/11. I would look to verify that and investigate why that is so, as well as look into the history of maintenance of the WTC site to look for abnormal activity should those records even exist anymore.

    Again, none of this necessarily proves anything but its all a part of a compilation should you have a real investigation.
    I haven't given it much thought to be completely honest. I will have a look as I do find it quite fascinating if nothing else.
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  28. I thought Ive seen it all during the Bush days, but now this fear terrorism retarded crap and the "state" will protect us has reached new cesspool levels.

    This is just a distraction to the French from their real issues which is the collapse of their economy and socialist system. They are deploying 10,000 troops? Really? Like if they were already deployed they would have protected and prevented a shooting at a looney cartoon place?

    Its amazing how small this world is and how these "terrorist" were linked on that first day to the Pentagon Special Guest of Honor Anwar al-Awlaki, and now they also add in that stupid munchkin underwear bra bomber, lol

    Psi-ops in full effect, time to let goverment grope everybody on the street and touch your testicles to keep everyone safe.
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  29. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I haven't given it much thought to be completely honest. I will have a look as I do find it quite fascinating if nothing else.
    TBH this whole thread is quite fascinating
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  30. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I thought Ive seen it all during the Bush days, but now this fear terrorism retarded crap and the "state" will protect us has reached new cesspool levels.

    This is just a distraction to the French from their real issues which is the collapse of their economy and socialist system. They are deploying 10,000 troops? Really? Like if they were already deployed they would have protected and prevented a shooting at a looney cartoon place?

    Its amazing how small this world is and how these "terrorist" were linked on that first day to the Pentagon Special Guest of Honor Anwar al-Awlaki, and now they also add in that stupid munchkin underwear bra bomber, lol

    Psi-ops in full effect, time to let goverment grope everybody on the street and touch your testicles to keep everyone safe.
    What do you think of farenheit 911?
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