Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    He is misleading people into thinking that our problems today are due to the Constitution. Primary example, Fareed pins down the tax system. Is it a joke? I absolutely agree with you, but the today's tax system has nothing to do with the constitution, as a matter of fact the income tax is unconstitutional. What Im trying to say is he is linking what makes sense and what is wrong with today's system to the Constitution where most viewers will simply follow along with the statements and agree with him when in fact they are simply deceptive tactics to mislead the audience into demonizing the Constitution.
    I suppose so, but I wasn't quite reading him as using the tax system as an attack on the Constitution. I thought he was more saying look we are so in love with what we do that we refuse to look for different ways of doing things. I thought he was just using the initial point of people loving and thinking the way we do things is so correct and then saying but look at our broke tax system, our broke political system. Just the way I took what he was saying.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Ax: I actually agree a lot with the Fareed video. While I don't think our Constitution needs to be dumped, the idea that it doesn't need to be significantly pliable is laughable. So many things have changed since the writing of the Constitution and so many instances that the founders couldn't have predicted have taken place and are going to take place. That isn't to say that I think the Constitution needs to be scrapped or ignored, but to act as if the answer to every question that society will ever face can be found in there doesn't make sense to me. And he's dead on, the role of money in politics is terrible and our tax system IS a joke. What parts do you disagree with?
    But the constitution is pliable. Its not a "living document" that you can interpret how you want, its a living document in that there are established ways it can be changed. And there isn't anything relevant to how a federal government and its citizens relate that the founders didn't predict. Because technology doesn't matter, changes in medicine don't matter. Agricultural, manufacturing, etc all irrelvant. The federal government isn't there to help, they are there to resolve disputes between states and protect our outer borders. Thats all. None of the rest of whats happened in the time since the constitution was written has changed that, where its the individual states that have the right to deal with their local issues how they see fit.

    Whats interesting to add is that for so long and so worsening every year has the federal government (whether controlled by democrats or republicans) taken over states rights, and used the commerce clause of the constitution to take more control. But lately states have started to fight back. The federal government has no right over any commerce that does not cross state borders. So a number of states now manfucture firearms, lightbulbs and other materials as "Only for sale in whatever state". Even with the medical marijuana issue, the federal government has no say constitutionally, and shouldn't.

    The reason the constitution and founders limited the federal government's power so much was that they understood that as the country grew, it had the potential to be larger and more wealthy (just from natural resources and useable crop land) than any of the countries in the world. So limiting the power of the federal government limited the corruption as well as avoided any single man having too much power.
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  3. Is America heading on the road to serfdom?
    Ron Paul : Now We Live Off Our Military Power!

    Rep. Ron Paul, (R-Texas), on the road to serfdom via the growing impact of government in Americans’ daily lives.

    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  4. Obama Is Establishing An Executive Dictatorship

    White House crosses the rubicon

    Paul Joseph Watson
    Monday, July 11, 2011

    President Barack Obama is rapidly advancing an executive dictatorship that threatens to completely nullify the US Constitution if left unchecked, with his administration hastily eroding every other branch of government as the White House crosses the rubicon to push through its political agenda on every front, from the war in Libya to domestic gun control.



    WAR ON LIBYA
    Obama has displayed open hostility to the rule of law and the Constitution when asked why he has failed to obtain Congressional approval for the war on Libya.
    Obama has ignored his own constitutional lawyers on the legality of the conquest, claiming that Congressional approval is not needed because the legitimacy of the UN supersedes Congress and that the bombardment, which has included over 800 bombing runs flown by US warplanes, is not a war.

    Obama has used word games and mental gymnastics to claim he hasn’t violated the War Powers Resolution. Even as universities, apartment blocks and marketplaces are bombed, killing innocent civilians, communications are blocked, and even as top admirals now admit that the scope of the mission is all about regime change, the Obama administration still clings to the ludicrous fallacy that the bombardment of Libya is not a war.
    Indeed, the White House itself characterized the goal in Libya as “installing a democratic system,” a euphemism for regime change, acknowledging that the agenda goes far beyond “protecting civilians,” as Obama claimed during his March 19 speech.
    GUN CONTROL
    As part of its bid to eviscerate the Second Amendment by stealth, or “under the radar” as Obama himself called it, the White House is about to launch a new gun control offensive that will bypass the necessity of passing legislation in Congress and instead rely on “only executive orders or administrative actions.”
    According to a Huffington Post story on the issue, Obama is likely to have more success pushing through gun control if he circumvents Congress on the issue. “Executive actions offer something that legislation doesn’t: guaranteed results. And as one gun control advocate told the Huffington Post, there are ways to “use these administrative changes to obtain similar results,” writes Sam Stein.
    With the revelations surrounding Fast and Furious having blown up in their face, and the Obama administration’s ploy to blame violence in Mexico on gun rights even after they got caught shipping in the weapons in tatters, the White House is desperate to push through new gun control measures that are integral to advancing Rahm Emanuel’s May 2007 call to put people who are on a no fly list on a no gun buy list, stripping millions of Americans of their Second Amendment rights because they have been erroneously placed on a notoriously inaccurate no fly list that includes everyone from Senators to toddlers.
    DEBT CEILING
    As part of Obama’s charge to sink America into more debt to foreign bankers, he has dredged up a 143-year-old clause related to the Civil War in a bid to raise the debt ceiling, overtly challenging Congressional control of the budget, a development that could spark a “constitutional crisis,” reports AFP.
    Obama’s attempt to use an obscure civil war clause to circumvent Congress, which is empowered to control the purse strings, is another example of his administration’s flagrant effort to nullify the separation of powers within government and give the executive branch

    CARBON TAXES
    After the White House failed in its bid to implement a de facto carbon tax through cap and trade, Obama simply bypassed Congress completely and had the EPA declare CO2 to be a pollutant and a public health threat, allowing greenhouse gas emissions to be regulated and taxed through the Clean Air Act.
    The EPA’s move was little more than a threat to back Congress into a corner and force them into passing legislation that would regulate CO2 for all new or expanded power plants.
    The fact that this has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with fleecing American taxpayers was confirmed when Obama gave a waiver to General Electric and ensured that one of the biggest emitters of carbon dioxide on the planet, and coincidentally one of Obama’s largest campaign contributors, was exempt from the new regulations.
    OBAMACARE
    Having already been ruled unconstitutional by federal judges in both Florida and Virginia, Obama has also been busy handing out waivers to over a thousand corporations, including McDonalds, a clear violation of the Equal Protection clause and proof “that D.C. is now completely ignoring the rule of law“.
    OBAMA’S RURAL COUNCIL
    Obama’s White House has issued a new executive order mandating the creation of a “Rural Council,” another step in the move towards a centrally planned economy.
    According to this new executive order, the Obama administration plans to stick its itchy little fingers into just about every aspect of rural life,” writes the Economic Collapse Blog. “One of the stated goals of the White House Rural Council is to do the following….”
    “Coordinate and increase the effectiveness of Federal engagement with rural stakeholders, including agricultural organizations, small businesses, education and training institutions, health-care providers, telecommunications services providers, research and land grant institutions, law enforcement, State, local, and tribal governments, and nongovernmental organizations regarding the needs of rural America.”
    This is merely a euphemism for a new layer of bureaucracy set to suffocate rural America, with federal control freaks already implementing new draconian regulations to put a stranglehold on farmer’s markets and other forms of self-sufficiency.
    OBAMA’S COUNCIL OF STATE GOVERNORS
    Another White House executive order that creates a council of state governors who will work with the feds to expand military involvement in domestic security has stoked fears that the administration is stepping up preparations for martial law. Rather than elected representatives being in control of states, Obama has created a body of ten lapdogs who answer to the federal government and not the American people.
    The order, which is entitled Establishment of the Council of Governors (PDF), creates a body of ten state governors directly appointed by Obama who will work with the federal government to help advance the “synchronization and integration of State and Federal military activities in the United States”.
    The governors will liaise with officials from Northcom, Homeland Security, the National Guard as well as DoD officials from the Pentagon “in order to strengthen further the partnership between the Federal Government and State governments,” according to the executive order.
    Conservatives and libertarians responded to the announcement by expressing their suspicion that Obama is preparing to give governors their marching orders in targeting “anti-government” types that have long been characterized as a terrorist threat by the feds in numerous reports stretching back over a decade.
    INTERNET KILL SWITCH
    The White House is aggressively advancing Chinese-style web censorship that would provide Obama with a figurative kill switch for the Internet, bypassing Congress completely as part of the federal government’s executive-level takeover of all communications.
    On every front, the Obama administration is entering the final stages of a total power grab that represents a clear effort to turn the country into an executive dictatorship, another stark indication that America is quickly beginning to resemble a decaying banana republic.

    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  5. some choice huh?

    obama and the libs on one side


    republican's and rush limbaugh declaring war on the poor on the other


    on a side note-how can they even consider cutting medicare or social security? they are not handouts, i have paid into them for almost 35 years!!!! just give me my f'ing money back and be done with it-i considered it a given that these would be there for me....they are going to cheat me, but oil companies get their loopholes-this is really screwed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am pissed!


    i don't care what obama does, anyone who doesn't make at least a million a year and votes republican is a freaking retard.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    some choice huh?

    obama and the libs on one side


    republican's and rush limbaugh declaring war on the poor on the other


    on a side note-how can they even consider cutting medicare or social security? they are not handouts, i have paid into them for almost 35 years!!!! just give me my f'ing money back and be done with it-i considered it a given that these would be there for me....they are going to cheat me, but oil companies get their loopholes-this is really screwed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am pissed!


    i don't care what obama does, anyone who doesn't make at least a million a year and votes republican is a freaking retard.
    Its just an illusion of choice. They say all this stuff on TV but behind closed doors they all make deals and shake hands on the big issues. America is a 1 party system and Dems and Republicans are like choosing between Coke and Pepsi. Im not voting for either of them (edit: My heavy criticism of Obama has nothing to do with me supporting Republicans (which I dont,) I did after all vote for him based on his original ideas although I quickly found out what he did was much different than what he said.)

    In regards to Medicare and Social Security, well you paid now they are about to pull off a heist on us, thats just another heist among the rest of them by the Federal Reserve, the banks and the NWO.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  7. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Its just an illusion of choice. They say all this stuff on TV but behind closed doors they all make deals and shake hands on the big issues. America is a 1 party system and Dems and Republicans are like choosing between Coke and Pepsi. Im not voting for either of them (edit: My heavy criticism of Obama has nothing to do with me supporting Republicans (which I dont,) I did after all vote for him based on his original ideas although I quickly found out what he did was much different than what he said.)

    In regards to Medicare and Social Security, well you paid now they are about to pull off a heist on us, thats just another heist among the rest of them by the Federal Reserve, the banks and the NWO.

    right, the rich get richer......f'ing republicans.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  8. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    right, the rich get richer......f'ing republicans.
    I share your anger, but I say f'ng republicans and democrats, lol They all work for the same people, corporations and banks.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  9. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I share your anger, but I say f'ng republicans and democrats, lol They all work for the same people, corporations and banks.

    yes, but listen to that fat basturd limbaugh sometime, he and his followers have declared war on the poor....the sad thing is there are many who are poor who follow that piece of shiit. i am beginning to think this nation is full of idiots and we are getting what we deserve.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  10. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    yes, but listen to that fat basturd limbaugh sometime, he and his followers have declared war on the poor....the sad thing is there are many who are poor who follow that piece of shiit. i am beginning to think this nation is full of idiots and we are getting what we deserve.
    I know, he is a total turd I cant stand him. I dunno how poor people can listen to him either, Im average and I cant listen to him. He is an example of extreme patheticness.

    You make a accurate point, if this nation falls its all our fault as a society. Its sad because this is a scientific dictatorship running the country. All the propaganda, brainwashing, advanced psychological techniques, hijacking of the education system, promotion of irrelevant materialism by corporations is working. Much more to it than that, but ultimately we are failing as a people including myself.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  11. The False Left Right Paradigm (Democrats vs. Republicans)


    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  12. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I know, he is a total turd I cant stand him. I dunno how poor people can listen to him either, Im average and I cant listen to him. He is an example of extreme patheticness.

    You make a accurate point, if this nation falls its all our fault as a society. Its sad because this is a scientific dictatorship running the country. All the propaganda, brainwashing, advanced psychological techniques, hijacking of the education system, promotion of irrelevant materialism by corporations is working. Much more to it than that, but ultimately we are failing as a people including myself.

    the simple fact that people with incomes under a million are buying into the republican bs of putting everything on the shoulders of the poor and average joe tells me everything i need to know. the 12 jurors of casey anthony look like einsteins compared to a guy working at walmart and voting republican.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  13. US government caught in fake vaccination program harvesting DNA from civilians to target terrorists
    Tuesday, July 12, 2011
    by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger


    (NaturalNews) An investigation by The Guardian reveals that CIA agents organized a fake vaccination scheme to harvest DNA from innocent civilians as part of a secret intelligence operation. The scheme was carried out in the town of Abbottabad, where Bin Laden's family was believed to be hiding. And the purpose of the vaccination scheme was to acquire the DNA of Bin Laden family members in order to identify where Bin Laden was hiding (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/201...).

    This is the first time the mainstream media has gone public with a story admitting that vaccines are used as weapons of war, and it proves that vaccination programs sometimes have nothing to do with public health at all (and everything to do with killing people, which was the entire purpose of locating Bin Laden).

    How could taking DNA samples from civilians help the CIA determine where Bin Laden's family was located? Because they already had DNA samples from Bin Laden's sister who died in Boston in 2010. With that DNA sample in hand, it is a simple matter to determine which other samples are genetically related and then zero in on the desired target.

    Vaccines used to covertly harvest DNA without consent

    It also shows that vaccinations can be used to harvest DNA without the knowledge of the vaccine recipients. This isn't even new: The U.S. government openly admitted in 2007 that it harvests the DNA of newborn babies and keeps a "DNA database" of nearly all newborns
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  14. Afghan CIA Drug Kingpin Shot Dead by Own Bodyguards
    Kurt Nimmo
    July 12, 2011

    Ahmad Wali Karzai, the half brother of Afghan president Hamid Karzai, was assassinated by one of his own bodyguards Tuesday morning. Friend and trusted head of security Sardar Mohammed shot him in the head and chest. Mohammed was in turn shot and killed by fellow bodyguards. The Taliban claimed responsibility for the assassination.

    Afghan President Karzai's CIA Drug-lord brother shot dead



    In 2009 it was reported that Karzai was a major player in the Afghan opium trade. According to reports, other members of the Karzai family are involved “head-to-heels” in the drug business.
    Ahmad Wali Karzai also worked for the CIA.
    “The CIA has been complicit in the global drug trade for years,” a former intelligence official told Newsmax in 2002. “The CIA did almost the identical thing during the Vietnam War, which had catastrophic consequences – the increase in the heroin trade in the USA beginning in the 1970s is directly attributable to the CIA.”


    According to a report in Presscore, the former Unocal employee Hamid Karzai and his family are heavily involved in the CIA’s drug business.
    “85 per cent of all drugs produced in Afghanistan is being shipped aboard US aircraft. Foreign diplomats have stated that the United States military buy drugs from local Afghan drug lords who deal with field commanders overseeing eradication of drug production,” states the report. The CIA provides protection for the enterprise.
    The CIA has been in the drug running business since the 1950s. In Burma, Vietnam, Laos, Latin America, and Afghanistan, the CIA — also known as the “Cocaine Import Agency” — has remained at the forefront of the international illicit drug trade. The journalist Gary Webb and the San Jose Mercury News tied the CIA and the Contras to a large crack cocaine ring in Los Angeles. Webb paid with his life for revealing this information to the public.
    Before the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban had imposed a ban on opium production. This resulted in opium production collapsing by more than 90 per cent. It was the U.S. supported Northern Alliance that came to the rescue and began protecting the production of raw opium.
    “CIA-supported Mujahedeen rebels [who in 2001 were part of the Northern Alliance] engaged heavily in drug trafficking while fighting against the Soviet-supported government and its plans to reform the very backward Afghan society,” William Blum writes in The Real Drug Lords.


    In a Fox News report aired in April of 2010, correspondent Geraldo Rivera interviewed a solder in Afghanistan who admitted the U.S. allows the opium trade to flourish.

    Opium fields guarded by U.S. troops in Afghanistan




    The corporate media has provided propaganda for the CIA’s drug business. “Curbing the Taliban’s multimillion dollar opium poppy business was a major goal of a military operation to seize this former insurgent stronghold,” the Associated Press reported in March of 2010. “If they destroy the crops and curb the trade, they lose the support of the population — a problem for which they have no easy solution.”

    In fact, as previously noted, the Taliban banned opium production and almost eliminated the crop a decade ago.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  15. More reasons I refuse to have any kids,

    New 9/11 curriculum released for teachers on how to educate students

    "Learning from the Challenge of our Times - Global Security, Terrorism and 9/11 in the classroom"
    Full curriculum in PDF format http://www.state.nj.us/education/hol...11/k12curr.pdf
    (And thank you Investors Savings Bank for your grateful generous grants, we all love you bankers!)

    Published: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:31 PM
    By Jeanette Rundquist/The Star-Ledger
    New Jersey teachers have a new set of tools for teaching about the 9/11 terror attacks. New K-12 curriculum providing lessons on 9/11, its causes and context, were formally released this morning at Liberty Science Center in Jersey City.
    Written by a volunteer group called 4 Action Initiative — which is made of Families of September 11, Liberty Science Center and the New Jersey Commission on Holocaust Education — the collection of 58 lessons delves into themes such as the historical context of terrorism, human behavior, and remembrance and public memory.
    The classes are not mandated for use in New Jersey schools, but Acting State Education Commissioner Christopher Cerf, who was also present at the formal launch, said the state supports its use. "The program is so strong, I assume many, many schools will use it," Cerf said.
    The curriculum is available on the Department of Education website.
    The lesson guidelines were completed in time for the upcoming 10th anniversary of the terror attacks, but organizers said the hope is that the lessons will be used throughout the year to teach topics such as "the power of hurtful words" and "what is terrorism?"
    Dozens of New Jersey teachers helped write and pilot the lessons, and many attended the formal launch. Also present at the event was the co-founder of Families of September 11, MaryEllen Salamone, whose husband, John, was killed on 9/11; she and her three children, Alex, 15; Aidan, 14; and Anna, 12, spoke about the importance of the curriculum.
    "It shows teachers they can talk about it," said Aidan.

    That was full article, for direct this is link.
    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...leased_fo.html
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  16. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post

    on a side note-how can they even consider cutting medicare or social security? they are not handouts, i have paid into them for almost 35 years!!!! just give me my f'ing money back and be done with it-i am pissed!
    Coming Soon: Smaller Raises for Seniors?
    Lawmakers are considering changes to how Social Security is adjusted for inflation.

    "When inflation rises, retirees' social security checks keep pace with small increases. But if some lawmakers get their way, those raises may be a whole lot smaller in the future."

    Whole story:
    http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/...etire-planning
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  17. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Coming Soon: Smaller Raises for Seniors?
    Lawmakers are considering changes to how Social Security is adjusted for inflation.

    "When inflation rises, retirees' social security checks keep pace with small increases. But if some lawmakers get their way, those raises may be a whole lot smaller in the future."

    Whole story:
    http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/...etire-planning

    how can they keep collecting ssn and medicre taxes from us when they have already said that if you are under 55 there won't be anything there for us?


    just give me back every damn dime i have paid into it!!! i get sick in my stomach when i hear republicans talk like ssn and medicare are handouts-my ass. i am 52 and been paying into it since i was 15-and i will never see a dime of my money back...f'ing republicans should be ashamed.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  18. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    the simple fact that people with incomes under a million are buying into the republican bs of putting everything on the shoulders of the poor and average joe tells me everything i need to know. the 12 jurors of casey anthony look like einsteins compared to a guy working at walmart and voting republican.
    But thats not true at all. The guy working at walmart pays a negative % of his income in taxes with tax credits, etc. Granted this chart was from 1999, but 2008 had some of the lowest collected taxes ever.

    http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/#Head-1.htm

    The bottom almost 50% of incomes pay nothing in federal taxes, and actually collect money via the earned income credit etc. "Putting everything on the backs of the average joe" is a joke, everything is on the back of the people who earn a decent living and up and the average joe has had a free ride for a long time.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. This is effective tax rates after everything


    note that the lower 20% don't even pay half their % into social security, much less pay anything on top of that.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  20. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    But thats not true at all. The guy working at walmart pays a negative % of his income in taxes with tax credits, etc. Granted this chart was from 1999, but 2008 had some of the lowest collected taxes ever.

    http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/#Head-1.htm

    The bottom almost 50% of incomes pay nothing in federal taxes, and actually collect money via the earned income credit etc. "Putting everything on the backs of the average joe" is a joke, everything is on the back of the people who earn a decent living and up and the average joe has had a free ride for a long time.

    that's right wing propaganda...they pay 0% federal taxes, but take a look at how much ssn and medicare they are paying!!! plus state taxes here in indiana are a killer. then you have 7% sales tax.....geezus, no taxes my ass!!!
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  21. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    that's right wing propaganda...they pay 0% federal taxes, but take a look at how much ssn and medicare they are paying!!! plus state taxes here in indiana are a killer. then you have 7% sales tax.....geezus, no taxes my ass!!!
    The "rich" people pay all those too, and its a lot more in net dollars. And my point above was there, the bottom 20% of earners don't even pay their whole SSN + medicare %. But they sure will be collecting and using it.

    A person who makes 200k a year doesn't have any good reason to pay 100x more in taxes than a person making 20k a year. 10x more sure.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    The "rich" people pay all those too, and its a lot more in net dollars. And my point above was there, the bottom 20% of earners don't even pay their whole SSN + medicare %. But they sure will be collecting and using it.

    A person who makes 200k a year doesn't have any good reason to pay 100x more in taxes than a person making 20k a year. 10x more sure.
    ok, if you want to look at it that way-warren buffet said that he pays less percentage taxes than his secretary. just because the wealthy are taxed at a higher rate doesn't mean they are paying it....the wealthy have accountants who are paid good money to make sure the wealthy get every tax break and loop hole possible. if the wealthy actaully paid 20% EVERY DOLLAR THEY EARNED THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE 10X MORE THAN THEY ARE PAYING NOW!!!!!!!! get real eric, you know this is truth!!!!!
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  23. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    ok, if you want to look at it that way-warren buffet said that he pays less percentage taxes than his secretary. just because the wealthy are taxed at a higher rate doesn't mean they are paying it....the wealthy have accountants who are paid good money to make sure the wealthy get every tax break and loop hole possible. if the wealthy actaully paid 20% EVERY DOLLAR THEY EARNED THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE 10X MORE THAN THEY ARE PAYING NOW!!!!!!!! get real eric, you know this is truth!!!!!
    Warren Buffet SAYS that, but he's wrong on the math. What you are talking is the leftist propaganda, the rich people avoid their taxes. I can tell you that in that inbetween area, accountants or not you can't avoid that much, and you still pay more than 0. (which is what the bottom 20% of earners pay). If you want fair, an even percentage of everyones dollars with no deductions would work, but that will raise the average joe's rate.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Warren Buffet SAYS that, but he's wrong on the math. What you are talking is the leftist propaganda, the rich people avoid their taxes. I can tell you that in that inbetween area, accountants or not you can't avoid that much, and you still pay more than 0. (which is what the bottom 20% of earners pay). If you want fair, an even percentage of everyones dollars with no deductions would work, but that will raise the average joe's rate.
    lol-that would raise everyones rate!!!! my problem is, if you work at walmart for 7.50-10 an hour, just how much more CAN you pay. it's disgusting to me that walmart is the countrys largest employer and 70% or more of the employees are well below the poverty level.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  25. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    lol-that would raise everyones rate!!!! my problem is, if you work at walmart for 7.50-10 an hour, just how much more CAN you pay. it's disgusting to me that walmart is the countrys largest employer and 70% or more of the employees are well below the poverty level.
    But "how much more can you pay" I have to think the answer is more than they currently do. If you bring your car to a repair shop, you shouldn't expect them to fix it for free because you don't make much. Same thing goes with federal taxes + services. Whats brought people to thinking the way you are now goes back to Roosevelt and the whole New Deal, the expectation that contrary to the Constitution that the federal government should provide services its not entitled to.

    The reason so many people are below the poverty level is they don't have the skills or knowledge to do better. And that isn't the federal government's problem, its theirs and their parents. The bottom line is that the ability to make a liveable wage without education or significant skills continues to drop year over year. The other issue related to this is that people's expectation of what their lifestyle should be on that sort of wage has gotten ridiculous. In the 70s growing up with my father making that low end wage we grew some of our own vegetables, never had a car less than 15 or 20 years old, had 1 tv, no cable, etc. Now people expect to have an unskilled job but have flatscreen tvs, computers, ipads, cellphones, etc. Which just isn't going to happen and work out. If the same people spent the amount of time they spend watching sports on educating themselves, they could change their position. But they don't. And i'm not happy seeing even more of my pay taken away from me for that.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    But "how much more can you pay" I have to think the answer is more than they currently do. If you bring your car to a repair shop, you shouldn't expect them to fix it for free because you don't make much. Same thing goes with federal taxes + services. Whats brought people to thinking the way you are now goes back to Roosevelt and the whole New Deal, the expectation that contrary to the Constitution that the federal government should provide services its not entitled to.

    The reason so many people are below the poverty level is they don't have the skills or knowledge to do better. And that isn't the federal government's problem, its theirs and their parents. The bottom line is that the ability to make a liveable wage without education or significant skills continues to drop year over year. The other issue related to this is that people's expectation of what their lifestyle should be on that sort of wage has gotten ridiculous. In the 70s growing up with my father making that low end wage we grew some of our own vegetables, never had a car less than 15 or 20 years old, had 1 tv, no cable, etc. Now people expect to have an unskilled job but have flatscreen tvs, computers, ipads, cellphones, etc. Which just isn't going to happen and work out. If the same people spent the amount of time they spend watching sports on educating themselves, they could change their position. But they don't. And i'm not happy seeing even more of my pay taken away from me for that.
    no what brought me to my way of thinking was my time living in the philipines. the difference between the u.s now and the philipines then seems to be getting much less.

    give the poor a decent living wage, then you can ask for something back.

    you and i are blessed to live good lives...i just hate seeing this country become a 3rd world country in terms of how it's WORKING poor are treated.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  27. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    no what brought me to my way of thinking was my time living in the philipines. the difference between the u.s now and the philipines then seems to be getting much less.

    give the poor a decent living wage, then you can ask for something back.

    you and i are blessed to live good lives...i just hate seeing this country become a 3rd world country in terms of how it's WORKING poor are treated.
    But there is no "right" to a good paying job, or a right to housing, food, etc. People have come to believe there is, but its not there. If you look at it, the decline of the US as a society began when? Right when people started thinking there was a right to those. The poor can make a decent living wage if they make the effort to educate themselves. There are all sorts of free programs, libraries, grants, student loans, etc. The fact that they'd spend their money on malt liquor and an ESPN subscription instead isn't the government's fault.

    See I don't think we are blessed to be leading a good life, I think we both consciously made choices and sacrifices that brought us to having a good life. I know plenty of people who came from nothing and managed to do so as well. But they actually worked for it, not expected someone to hand it to them. And even with talking about elementary + high school education, its not the government's place to be totally responsible for each child's education, parents need to do their share as well, and many fail to having given in to the mentality of "the government should do something about this"

  28. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    "the government should do something about this"
    And the more they get involved the more things get screwed up for everybody as a whole. The Social Security act's failure was inevitable, as will the new mandatory insurance aka health care system the government has set in place. They screwed up the education system too just to name a few.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  29. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    And the more they get involved the more things get screwed up for everybody as a whole. The Social Security act's failure was inevitable, as will the new mandatory insurance aka health care system the government has set in place. They screwed up the education system too just to name a few.
    As ronald reagan said, some of the most terrifying words in the english language are "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help".

    For far too long our government has existed and grown by promising something for nothing, and the debt ceiling issue is finally help bringing that to the forefront (that its unsustainable)

  30. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    But there is no "right" to a good paying job, or a right to housing, food, etc. People have come to believe there is, but its not there. If you look at it, the decline of the US as a society began when? Right when people started thinking there was a right to those. The poor can make a decent living wage if they make the effort to educate themselves. There are all sorts of free programs, libraries, grants, student loans, etc. The fact that they'd spend their money on malt liquor and an ESPN subscription instead isn't the government's fault.

    See I don't think we are blessed to be leading a good life, I think we both consciously made choices and sacrifices that brought us to having a good life. I know plenty of people who came from nothing and managed to do so as well. But they actually worked for it, not expected someone to hand it to them. And even with talking about elementary + high school education, its not the government's place to be totally responsible for each child's education, parents need to do their share as well, and many fail to having given in to the mentality of "the government should do something about this"

    well then, maybe the poor ought to change the laws-remember there are many more poor than there are wealthy,lol. after all this country seems to be all about majority rules.....isn't that why we vote?
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID
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