Ergo Pharm -Catch this?
- 06-13-2004, 10:23 PM
Ergo Pharm -Catch this?
I'm not sure how the board is about posting a link to another board but thought this was an interesting read on the 1AD maker ...
- 06-13-2004, 10:34 PM
that thread should have been locked long ago... just mindless peurile banter.... Bruce has completely lost his mind.
- 06-13-2004, 11:30 PM
The bickering between such "established" individuals is quite disgraceful. I also find it pathetic how so many people will pile on. However, it is interesting that Arnold does not comment on Kneller's accusations about THG.
06-13-2004, 11:35 PM
yeah i just asked PA to clarify his involvment in that issue.
btw what is THG?
06-13-2004, 11:40 PM
LOL...talk about out of the loop...j/k bro...THG was the designer steroid that was brought about by Balco labs and was suppossedly supplying to Professional athletes...PA was a suspect in that the DEA or something was trying to link him to the crimes...Originally Posted by Kristopher
06-13-2004, 11:44 PM
where would i find info on this? i dont watch tv or read newspapers. so its no suprise i may have been out of the loop as it were.Originally Posted by Jergo
06-13-2004, 11:49 PM
I believe what you meant to say is "here is a thread filled with bull**** on the 1AD maker". Everything Bruce says is bull****, don't take any of it at face value. All of the accusations he makes are unfounded and ridiculous, research them for yourself... the THG scandal, the "nazi" comments, etc.Originally Posted by raylewis
06-13-2004, 11:51 PM
Considering he was under a huge federal investigation, I find it perfectly understandable that he does not want to make comments on it. The less he says the better; I'm sure his attorney agrees with that. Not to mention that if he addresses the issue it just shines even more light on it, which I am sure he does not want.Originally Posted by size
06-13-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by Kristopher
You could probably go to Espn.com and find some info by doing a search...either that or just search google and you'll be sure to find out everything you need to know...
06-14-2004, 12:02 AM
yea bb.com is ridiculous. they should change the forums name to "the pissing match".
06-14-2004, 12:03 AM
I had no idea who Bruce was and never had read any of his work. I had heard of PA and had the same thought about these 2 heads airing out their dirty laundry publicly.Originally Posted by size
I'm just one of the lab rats experitmenting on some of the supps these dudes get rich off of
06-14-2004, 10:09 AM
If PA's lawyer is any good at all, I'm sure he has told him to keep his mouth shut on anything concerning THG, the Olympics, Balco, etc.
06-14-2004, 11:46 AM
I can't believe how unprofessional and psychotic BK is...I'd heard in the past, but holy lord.
And those anti-semetic comments...talk about grabbing for anything.
Whether or not you like PA's business policies or products, you must say the man stands out as a clear, reasonable voice not prone to histrionics and emotional discharges, AND he has the scientific background and knowlegde to speak with authority on most of these subjects. I look forward to reading his posts, because they usually contain new nuggets of Chemistry information that I like to collect.
The funny thing is, BK made all these digs about PA being a recovered drug addict--from that thread, it looks like he recovered very well, and BK needs to lay off the COCAINE!
And I never expected him to start yapping about Balco and THG on an internet forum! If you're next door neighbor accused you of selling him weed, would you go online and talk a bunch of crap? Of course his lawyer told him to say nothing about this. You try cases in a court room, not in a public arena. Additionally, he has not even been charged with anything yet, and MOST LIKELY will not, because EVEN IF he did produce THG, it was not illegal at the time.
06-14-2004, 11:50 AM
wow! that thread was quite interesting.. thanks for the link
06-14-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by Sir Foxx
Most likely. However, it would be interesting especially since Arnold is so willing to attack other supplement companies and blame them for "ruining" the industry.
Check this out: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...8638336.htm?1c
06-14-2004, 12:30 PM
Any chance you could just cut and paste the article Size? The site requires registration and I'm sick of registering
06-14-2004, 12:34 PM
Posted on Tue, May. 11, 2004
Balco drugs allegedly acquired from outside
INFORMATION CAME TO LIGHT DURING RAID
By Pete Carey and Elliott Almond
A Midwest sports-supplement maker and a Texas anti-aging doctor supplied two of the key drugs in the Balco Laboratories steroid scandal, federal investigators were told last year.
Although reports have concentrated on Burlingame-based Balco as the distributor of a testosterone cream and the designer steroid THG, investigators have known since last year that Balco's president, Victor Conte Jr., obtained the drugs from other sources.
The information illustrates the murky territory occupied by performance-enhancing, youth-preserving chemicals. Neither of the two sources Conte allegedly named has been accused of breaking any drug laws or federal regulations. Doctors can prescribe one of the drugs, and the other one was unknown until Olympic drug testers at UCLA discovered it last year.
The substances, allegedly given to elite track and field athletes and professional baseball and football players, were nicknamed ``cream'' and ``clear'' at Balco. The cream was a gel rubbed on the skin that contained the male sex hormone testosterone and a masking agent. The clear was tetrahydrogestrinone (THG), a designer drug closely related to the anabolic steroids gestrinone and trenbolone. The investigators found out about the sources of the two drugs when they interviewed Conte while searching Balco Laboratories on Sept. 3, the Mercury News has learned. His lawyers dispute much of what investigators say Conte told them. Troy Ellerman, one of two lawyers representing Balco's executives, declined to comment.
Conte is alleged to have told investigators:
• The clear, the drug at the heart of the scandal, was obtained several years ago from Patrick Arnold, an Illinois supplement maker who introduced the top-selling prohormone androstenedione, or andro. Conte told investigators he bought his supply of the clear from Arnold for $450. The Food and Drug Administration declared THG an unapproved new drug in October shortly after Olympic drug testers revealed it publicly.
• A testosterone cream came from a Dr. Renna in Texas. Christian Renna, a Dallas anti-aging doctor with a Hollywood and professional athlete clientele, said last week that he knows Conte ``tangentially'' but declined to comment further. Two sources said that Conte had a prescription for testosterone. It is unclear if Conte had more than one source for testosterone, and if he did, whether investigators know who those sources are.
Conte is alleged to have told investigators that he bought the masking agent epitestosterone from a separate source and that someone Arnold knows mixed it with the testosterone cream.
Arnold, a chemist who heads LPJ Research in Seymour, Ill., declined to comment. ``It's a hot potato,'' he said.
Renna said he was ``more than puzzled'' by the allegation. ``I know Mr. Conte tangentially, but this is the first I've heard of that. Since this is going to be a public thing, I had better not make any comment,'' he said.
Renna has developed hormone-replacement therapies for movie stars, movie directors and professional athletes.
The physician, who has offices in Dallas and Santa Monica, ``has changed the lives of many people to include Hollywood's top personalities and producers, high-powered corporate executives, and professional athletes,'' states a Web site for Custom Formulary, an online pharmacy Renna founded.
Renna's athlete clients are professional football, basketball, hockey and baseball players, according to the Web site. News reports have described his work with film director Oliver Stone and actors Nick Nolte, Mickey Rourke and Chuck Norris.
Arnold's claim to fame -- andro -- is a steroid precursor that the body converts into testosterone and estrogen. Former A's and St. Louis Cardinals slugger Mark McGwire used it in 1998, when he broke Roger Maris' season home run record. It was banned by the FDA in March.
Conte is one of four men indicted on charges of giving performance-enhancing drugs to elite athletes. The others are Balco's vice president, James Valente; Barry Bonds' personal trainer, Greg Anderson of Burlingame; and Remi Korchemny, a track coach from Castro Valley. All have pleaded not guilty.
06-14-2004, 12:58 PM
So froma legal standpoint, how is what he did, IF HE DID IT AND THEY CAN PROVE IT, any different than what Designer Supps does now? Selling unclassified substances pre-ban?
06-14-2004, 02:11 PM
That thread is crazy, Bruce is a ****in crazy bastard, I cant believe that guy owns a company and is calling people drug addicts and nazi's for no reason. Haha, he got pissed as hell when I said I was going to never buy from him and more from PA. His "article" on 6oxo saying his was better was hilarious.
06-14-2004, 02:50 PM
He wants to make everything personal because in an objective argument, in business, in science, etc., he has no leg to stand on. Anyone who has to resort to those infantile tactics and playground insults is certainly in a very bad spot if they are over the age of 15.
06-14-2004, 03:05 PM
The difference (and I am guessing) would be that I sell supplements to everyone, I dont sell them specifically for the reason of beating drug tests. Whoever it was that made THG and sold it to Conte did so because they new it could not be tested for at the current level of testing by any sport/olympics. That was one of teh reasons for choosing that compound.
06-14-2004, 08:34 PM
There is a law prohibiting supplying "performance-enhancing" substances?
What is this law? Why isn't the owner of GNC in jail? (Creatine & whey protein.)
06-14-2004, 10:49 PM
I hear you sledge, and I follow your rationale, and you are open about what you sell, and this was secretive...but legally speaking, what law was broken by the provider?
From my reading, the supplier isn't in hot water; they're only interested in getting all the information they can from the alleged supplier about the activities. BALCO was at the center of the conspiracy, and they seem to be in the hot water.
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