Marijuana & Alcohol

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    TO sum it up what im saying is alchol and pot are mostly psychological addictions and that it MOSTLY depends on your personal preference of whatdrug you prefer which will get you addicted. However if you have an addictive personality you will get addicted to anything given enough time(me for example)

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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    TO sum it up what im saying is alchol and pot are mostly psychological addictions and that it MOSTLY depends on your personal preference of whatdrug you prefer which will get you addicted. However if you have an addictive personality you will get addicted to anything given enough time(me for example)
    Any studies to back this up? or is this jsut what you heard?
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    Anyone know what marijuana does to the mouth/teeth? Oh Oh! I do I do! Pick me!


    This one pretty much kicks the **** out of Pot and alcohol.....

    By Candace Hoffmann



    Jan. 21, 2000 (Lake Worth, Fla.) -- People who smoked pot in the '60s may have something to worry about, if the researchers at the UCLA School of Public Health are correct. They find that head and neck cancer, which often takes 30-40 years to develop, may be related to smoking marijuana. Thus, those who smoked pot in their teens and 20s may just now be feeling its adverse effects.

    Published in the December issue of Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention, this is the first statistical study to look at the relationship between marijuana smoking and head and neck cancer -- including cancers of the tongue, throat, mouth, and voicebox.

    The investigators compared a group of 173 patients who had cancer of the head and neck with 176 blood donors without cancer. They asked the subjects questions concerning age, lifestyle, alcohol intake, cigarette smoking, and marijuana use. Adjusting for the effects of alcohol and cigarette use, they found a relationship between the frequency of marijuana use and the disease.

    In other words, the number of marijuana cigarettes smoked and the number of years smoked has a direct relationship on the development of these cancers.

    Pot smokers were 2.6 times more at risk for head and neck cancer than their non-pot-smoking counterparts. "If they used more than one [marijuana cigarette] a day, the risk jumped to 4.9 times more than someone who never smoked," lead author Zuo-Feng Zhang, MD, PhD, says Zhang is director of the Cancer Epidemiology Training Program and professor of epidemiology at the UCLA School of Public Health.

    "I think it makes a lot of sense, because we've known for a long time there's a lot more tar in marijuana -- more than cigarette smoke. So people are being exposed to more carcinogens," Patricia Reggio, PhD. Reggio, who has researched marijuana (cannabinoids) for more than 15 years, reviewed the study for WebMD. She is a member and past president of the International Cannabinoid Research Association.

    A genetic defect may put people at even greater risk, Zhang says. The patients were tested for a genetic defect that predisposes to cancer. Those with the defect who smoked marijuana had a 77-fold higher risk for cancer than those without the defect.

    The study also showed that smoking cigarettes increased a person's risk of head and neck cancer. Additionally, alcohol was found to be a risk factor, but it was not as strong as either the genetic risk or cigarette smoking

    However, since the study involved a relatively small number of people, the researchers may not have had enough information on alcohol. David Arnold, MD, from the University of Miami's Sylvester School of Medicine, states that he and his colleagues have found a significant risk of cancer development if alcohol is also used with marijuana smoking. "Nobody knows why that is. People talk about the alcohol making the cells more [receptive] to the [cancer-causing agent in marijuana] so that it can actually get into the genetic level," he explains. Arnold is a professor of otolaryngology, in the division of head and neck surgery at the University of Miami, Sylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center.

    All in all, Zhang, Arnold, and Reggio agree that this is sobering news for people who smoked pot in the past and those who are smoking it now. They should be forthcoming with their doctors about their recreational drug use. "If they have ever used marijuana, they should see their dentists twice a year to be checked for precancerous lesions," Zhang says. "The message is: Anything you smoke is bad."



    Vital Information:

    A new study has linked past marijuana smoking with an increased risk of cancers of the head and neck.
    More tar is found in marijuana than in cigarettes, so marijuana smokers have more exposure to cancer-causing agents.
    For those who have ever smoked marijuana, a dental visit twice a year can catch precancerous lesions.
    •   
       

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    March 20, 2000 (Baltimore) -- Chronic marijuana smoking may lead to emphysema, a serious disorder in which areas of lung tissue are destroyed and replaced with cysts, according to a paper published in this month's issue of the journal Thorax.

    In the paper, Martin Johnson, MD, of the department of respiratory medicine at Glasgow (Scotland) Royal Infirmary, and colleagues discuss the cases of four men who regularly smoked marijuana but did not smoke much tobacco, and who developed emphysema in the upper areas of their lungs. "Our cases are of particular interest, not just because of their young age, but also because of the unusual pattern of emphysema and the relatively low level of exposure to tobacco smoke compared with that more commonly associated with emphysema," Johnson writes.

    The men ranged in age from 27 to 46. The 27-year-old had smoked several pipes full of marijuana daily for several years, while the other men smoked from two joints per week to three per day. Tobacco use, which is commonly associated with the development of lung cancer and emphysema, was minimal among all three men. All of them developed the cysts, called bullae, in the upper areas of their lungs, but not in the middle or lower areas.

    The researchers were unable to show that marijuana smoking is a cause of emphysema, but demonstrated that it may play an additive role in the development of bullae. "There is a public perception that marijuana smoking has little adverse effect on physical health. ... We hope that our case reports will stimulate further study into ... potential lung toxicity," Johnson writes.

    Jag Khalsa, PhD, a neuropharmacologist with the Center on AIDS and Medical Consequences of Drug Abuse with the National Institute on Drug Abuse, reviewed the paper for WebMD. "There have been anecdotal reports of the development of these kinds of conditions in chronic marijuana users, and I'm not surprised by these findings," he says. "The idea that people who smoke marijuana don't smoke as much as those who smoke cigarettes and are therefore not at risk of health consequences is erroneous." Because pot smokers try to keep the smoke in their lungs longer, and because marijuana is smoked unfiltered, a few joints may be as harmful as a much larger number of tobacco cigarettes, he says.

    Christopher Gallagher, MD, clinical assistant professor at the University of Pennsylvania Cancer Center, says: "In our clinic we have encountered several young marijuana smokers with no history of tobacco smoking or other significant risk factors who were diagnosed with lung cancer or other ... cancers. It's certainly reasonable to suspect there could be an association with the development of emphysema." Though more study is needed, he says, "for the recreational user with a full life expectancy, the potentially harmful effects of marijuana smoking are a legitimate concern."
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    Now to not bull**** you, I did find an article done the Johns Hopkins Institution that basically said head and neck cancer from Marijuana is a bit over emphasized and may not be as wide spread as researchers previously thought, so be it, the potential is still there whether its as common as you would think. I also find an article that states marijuana is not a gateway drug in the sense that it will lower in effectiveness so much as you are forced to use other drugs, but then I found a study that linked marijuana use to future MDMA and cocaine use, so you decide. Marijuana lowers your sense of judgement (I think we can all agree to that) which leads to you doing things you normally would not do. Like Extacy! Or Xanax! Get what Im saying? I just say a commercial and it stated that 1 in every 3 drivers pulled over and put through a RDT (Roadside Drug Test) came back positive for marijuana. Accidents involving injury has greatly increased from those under the influence of marijuana, gratned I doubt they will ever catch that of alcohol, but thats something I dont want to subject myself to and here's a personal stand:

    If you plan to drink and drink or smoke pot and drive and you crash into me.....you better hope you kill me on the spot.
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    originally post by shpongled on BB.com (sorry if this is duped)
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...p;pagenumber=6


    Bodybuilders seem to have two primary concerns about smoking marijuana: harming their lungs and hormone changes. That is why I put these first.

    There are two ways that smoking tobacco harms the lungs. The first is increasing the risk of lung cancer. The second is by restricting small airways in the lungs, resulting in increased risk of emphysema, bronchitis, and other respiratory illness. These are also the two main concerns people have with marijuana
    smoke.

    Laboratory Research

    Other than the active ingredient, marijuana smoke and tobacco smoke are pretty much the same. But there are differences:

    1. Marijuana smokers inhale a much smaller volume of smoke than tobacco smokers over time. This has already been discussed.
    2. Nicotine hardens the arteries, increasing the risk of heart disease, and breaks down into N Nitrosamine, a cancer causing agent.
    3. THC is a bronchial dilator. I'll discuss that more below.
    4. Tobacco contains Lead 10 and commonly contains radioactive materials that marijuana does not contain. This could be responsible for up to 90% of the cancer causing effects.
    5. The majority of the tar found in marijuana is in the stem, which isn't smoked.

    Something to note on point #5 is that tar hasn't been shown to be a cancer causing agent in cigarettes. Lung cancer is just as high in people who smoke low tar cigarettes, and cigarettes contain many carcinogens that are probably responsible.

    Petri dishes containing THC, tobacco, marijuana smoke, and tobacco smoke have all been analyzed. All four of them cause the cellular changes associated with cancer except pure THC (1).

    Empirical Research

    I'll compare the risk of various ailments for non-smokers, tobacco smokers, and marijuana smokers from the given empirical studies.

    Bronchitis: Non-smokers are the least likely to develop it, followed by marijuana smokers, and then tobacco smokers. People who smoke marijuana and tobacco have the same incidence of bronchitis as those who smoke tobacco alone (2). Also, smoking marijuana daily increases your risk of a minor respiratory ailment by 3% (3). This would mean that smoking on the weekend would have a negligible effect.

    Emphysema and asthma: Here's the good news. Both of these ailments are due to obstruction of the small airways in the lungs. THC, like an asthma inhaler, causes the small airways to expand, allowing in the clearance of smoke and dirt. Anybody who's had experience with marijuana knows the coughing goes away within the first 5 to 10 minutes. Marijuana's effects peak 30 minuts after smoking it.

    There are multiple studies to back this up. The first was a UCLA report, from a group of researchers that studies nonsmokers, marijuana smokers, tobacco smokers, and smokers of both substances from 1983-1997. The marijuana smokers were heavy smokers, at a minimum of 3-4 joints a day for 15 years. Tobacco smokers showed obstruction of the lung's small airways. However, when the small airway obstruction of marijuana smokers was measured (by measuring the volume of air they can expel in one second), it was the same as with nonsmokers. What's more, users of both substances showed less of a small airway obstruction than tobacco smokers, implying that the marijuana somehow reduced the obstructions (either that, or smokers of marijuana tend to smoke less cigarettes) (4). A 19 year long study in Australia of 268 marijuana smokers (daily to weekly basis) also showed that they had a lower prevalence of emphysema and asthma than the general population (5).

    Lung cancer: There was a study done in the 70's that suggested that marijuana had higher levels than tobacco of benzopyrene, a cancer-causing agent. That is why you commonly hear "marijuana is more likely to cause cancer/has more tar." Studies since then have shown that tobacco actually has higher benzopyrene content, but in all likelihood it just depends on the plant source (6).

    There is also a study showing long-term heavy marijuana smokers to have a higher quantity of precancerous cells. However, there are absolutely no cases of lung cancer that have been linked to marijuana as a primary factor. In fact, the incidence of lung cancer in marijuana-only smokers is the same as in the general population.

    The primary cause of lung cancer is cigarette smoking (which causes about 85% of lung cancer cases) (7). The primary risk among non-smokers is second-hand smoke (about 1.5% of lung cancer cases) (8).

    Conclusion

    Marijuana may increase the risk of bronchitis or infection, may decrease the risk of emphysema and asthma, and has a very small (statistically insignificant) chance of increasing lung cancer.

    Note that using a vaporizer or bong has not been shown to decrease the amount of plant matter to THC ratio. Bongs filter out just as much THC as they do other substances (although THC is not water soluble, many of the other substances in marijuana aren't as well.) With a vaporizer, you are getting the same smoke, just a much larger amount. The primary reason that different methods result in different highs is they deliver different amounts of THC at different speeds. Just as if you take two caffeine pills, the effects will be much different than if you take one and then another an hour later, and that will be different than taking half of one every hour. Since the effects of marijuana come almost immediately it is much more noticable. Some methods result in harsher smoke because the closer the plant is to you, the hotter the smoke will be when inhaled.

    That given, there are some methods to greatly reduce the risk of respiratory problems:

    1. Do not hold the smoke in. This increases the psychoactive effects marginally at best and significantly increases possible damage to your lungs.
    2. Get high quality marijuana. You will inhale less plant matter for the same amount of THC, which is benign.
    3. Also, try to find marijuana that was grown by a friend or someone you can trust. This reduces the likelihood of pesticides that will hurt your lungs.
    4. Consider eating the marijuana. Note that the high is very different (for reasons discussed above); it is much longer lasting and panic reactions and paranoia are much more common.
    5. Limit your intake to one day a week.
    6. Don't smoke cigarettes. Hopefully, that is obvious.

    Thank you for your time.

    David

    Sources:
    1. Leuchtenberger, C., "Effects of Marijuana (Cannabis) Smoke on Cellular Biochemistry of In Vitro Test Systems," p.177-224 in Fehr, K.O. and Kalant, K. (eds), Cannabis and Health Hazards, Toronto: Addiction Research Foundation (1983).
    2. Turner, Carlton E., The Marijuana Controversy, Rockville, MD: American Council for Drug Education (1981).
    3. Plen, M.R., "Health Care Use by Frequent Marijuana Smokers Who Do Not Smoke Tobacco," Western Journal of Medicine 158, p.596-601 (1993).
    4. Tashkin, D.P., "Heavy Habitual Marijuan Smoking Does Not Cause an Accelerated Decline in FEV1 With Age," American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine 155, p.141-48 (1997).
    5. Didcott, P. et al., Long-Term Cannabis Users on the New South Wales North Coast, Canberra: Australian Government Publishing Service (1997).
    6. Harvey, R.G., Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons: Chemistry and Carcinogenicity, Cambridge: Oxford University Press (1991).
    7. Surgeon General. Reducing the Health Consequences of Smoking: 25 Years of Progress. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1989.
    8. National Cancer Institute of Canada. Canadian Cancer Statistics 2000. Toronto, Canada, 2000.
    (Note: Sources are only given when I have them handy. If you want further sources on a certain point, I will be happy to find them. Also note that many of my sources come from anti-drug literature).

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    I just say a commercial and it stated that 1 in every 3 drivers pulled over and put through a RDT (Roadside Drug Test) came back positive for marijuana.




    Woopidty doo. I don't listen to those commercials they are all b.s. You know for a Steroid user you shouldn't either, what are you gonna do start listening to the anti-steroid commericals if they start coming on t.v?? Have you ever thought that maybe a lot of those people who were tested and found to have marijuana also had alchol in their system??? I bet you a lot more then you think.
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     I also find an article that states marijuana is not a gateway drug in the sense that it will lower in effectiveness so much as you are forced to use other drugs, but then I found a study that linked marijuana use to future MDMA and cocaine use, so you decide.
    Its pretty subjective... and the same could be said about alcohol, cigarettes, etc...  I think the corelation is pretty absurd...


    Marijuana lowers your sense of judgement (I think we can all agree to that) which leads to you doing things you normally would not do. Like Extacy! Or Xanax! Get what Im saying?


    no, YJ, I dont... I have a great deal of respect for your opinions and knowledge... but I must disagree... i think saying something like that is exactly like saying "Steroids make people go nuts and hurt people". Its all in the hands of the user... if you expect (or subconsciously want) to go into roid rage, and you pop some gear... guess what? odds are great that you will go off on someone... I think the same is there with drinkers and pot smokers... and frankly, every pot smoker I know (myself included) is more likely to sit on the couch playing video games than go out and raise hell... but in all fairness, I dont know EVERY pot smoker in the world.. so my experience may be unique...

    There HAS to be some personal accountability.

    I also think its incredibly wrong to compare marijuana to Exctasy.. i dont know what Xanax is, so I cant comment on that... but then again.. this is my own opinion... certainly not the only view...
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    1. Marijuana smokers inhale a much smaller volume of smoke than tobacco smokers over time. This has already been discussed.
    First off, Im not on a crusade to stop everyone from smoking pot, do what you gotta do, we all have our interests, I like to bodybuild


    But I dont agree with this. This may have been the case in the 80's or early 90's, but I think new research (which, Im going after now) will show that smoking pot these days has increased dramatically and the rate at which it is smoked has increased just as much. People are smoking pot like they would smoke cigarettes, so this is merely one man's opinion. And I went and ahead and checked his resources also and the primary informatin he copied word for word are from sites that seemingly treat marijuana like water. They note all of the positive benefits of smoking pot (oxymoron) and I guess they just forgot to list the negative ones, oops.



    2. Nicotine hardens the arteries, increasing the risk of heart disease, and breaks down into N Nitrosamine, a cancer causing agent.
    True. But how many pot smokers do you know who also smoke cigarettes?? I know a ****load. In fact, the same John Hopkins Journal says people who are physically addicted to marijuana actually take up cigarette smoking to relieve the stress because of the expense of marijunana in some places and the legality issues behind purchasing pot. So they go hand in hand in my opinion.


    4. Tobacco contains Lead 10 and commonly contains radioactive materials that marijuana does not contain.
    So that makes marijuana good right?


    5. The majority of the tar found in marijuana is in the stem, which isn't smoked.
    How does this guy know? Now hes going to give lessons on how to smoke pot? Guess he's never taken on to the head or put the end of a blunt in to a bong and smoked that huh? Tool box.


    Bronchitis: Non-smokers are the least likely to develop it, followed by marijuana smokers.
    No ****. But there is that potential there to develope this, who gives a **** if its lower than cigarettes, its still there.

    Also, smoking marijuana daily increases your risk of a minor respiratory ailment by 3% (3).

    Wait....didnt he say above the volume of smoke is much less for those who smoke pot as opposed to cigarettes? Now hes talking about smoking pot everyday? Oh god....



    Marijuana may increase the risk of bronchitis or infection, may decrease the risk of emphysema and asthma, and has a very small (statistically insignificant) chance of increasing lung cancer.
    Gonna need to see those statistics before you talk about them.


    1. Do not hold the smoke in. This increases the psychoactive effects marginally at best and significantly increases possible damage to your lungs.


    Awww....now what fun is that??

    2. Get high quality marijuana.


    High quality aye? Boy, I'll have to wait until that goes on sell at Walmart, that **** is expensive. This guy is a total tool box. Pot is illegal dumbass.....I dont think you have much of a choice, there's not a catalog to choose out of. This must be his simple guide to smoking pot.

    3. Also, try to find marijuana that was grown by a friend or someone you can trust. This reduces the likelihood of pesticides that will hurt your lungs.
    Or better yet, go buy you some seeds and start a greenhouse in your back yard!

    4. Consider eating the marijuana.
    Um yea. Im not even touching this one.

    5. Limit your intake to one day a week.
    But you said earlier if you smoke it everyday and it will lower your risk of a minor respiratory ailment by 3%.... so there goes that argument and massive contradiction.

    6. Don't smoke cigarettes. Hopefully, that is obvious.
    Oh boy, I think this guy was stoned out of his mind when he wrote this.
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    Originally posted by pjorstad


    Woopidty doo. I don't listen to those commercials they are all b.s.
    Umm....statistics are BS huh? Can I get an invitation to the dream world you live in? You are very clueless my friend and you've proved it in this thread.

    You know for a Steroid user you shouldn't either, what are you gonna do start listening to the anti-steroid commericals if they start coming on t.v??
    I use steriods? Oh. Steriods are illegal my friend, I wouldnt do such a thing and if I did, I wouldnt announce it on the internet much like you have. And this isnt about steriods, this is about pot and my credibility or what I do in my spare time is not on trial here. So stay on topic or get the **** out.


    Have you ever thought that maybe a lot of those people who were tested and found to have marijuana also had alchol in their system??? I bet you a lot more then you think.
    Very possible. So that makes it acceptable? or better? No, Im anti-alcohol and pot my friend.
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    Oh boy, I think this guy was stoned out of his mind when he wrote this. [/B]
     

    hehe... perhaps!
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    Originally posted by Anxed


    Its pretty subjective... and the same could be said about alcohol, cigarettes, etc...  I think the corelation is pretty absurd...
    Yes they could, you're right, thus proving my other points about how alcohol and cigarettes are both worthless in society too....



    no, YJ, I dont... I have a great deal of respect for your opinions and knowledge... but I must disagree... i think saying something like that is exactly like saying "Steroids make people go nuts and hurt people".
    Whoa....now you're going way out of context. People dont begin steriods use for a high or for euphoric pleasure. Pot is a mental issue, it effects much areas of the body, steriods and marijuana are not comparable in no way other than the legal ramifications.


    Its all in the hands of the user... if you expect (or subconsciously want) to go into roid rage, and you pop some gear... guess what? odds are great that you will go off on someone...
    Wouldnt that be nice? All in the nads of the user... if only we could control ourselves while drunk or stoned.....but wait, wouldnt that defeat the whole purpose of getting that way? Roid rage is a myth. If you're an *******, you're an *******, artificial hormones dosnt climax this any more.

    I think the same is there with drinkers and pot smokers... and frankly, every pot smoker I know (myself included) is more likely to sit on the couch playing video games than go out and raise hell... but in all fairness, I dont know EVERY pot smoker in the world.. so my experience may be unique...
    I know a lot that do. But I know a lot that get real hungry and drive to a fast food place. Ahh, driving while stoned......oh boy.

    There HAS to be some personal accountability.
    Yes there does, but how often do you see that? ****, I hardly see it with sober people doing a job, let alone a stoned guy.

    I also think its incredibly wrong to compare marijuana to Exctasy.. i dont know what Xanax is, so I cant comment on that... but then again.. this is my own opinion... certainly not the only view...

    No one compared them. Only gave reference to MDMA as a future drug for pot smokers. I think its unfair to compare pot toe anabolic steriods too.
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    Umm....statistics are BS huh?

    No but they are when they are hidden in media b.s like i mentioned(purposely not mentioning that a lot of those people pulledover had some alchol in them too probably)




    No, Im anit-alcohol and pot my friend.
    hmmm i would have thought otherwise with your ranting and raving of the new beer, which is why i came to say that marijuana is better for your bodybuilding goals then alchol.
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    Originally posted by pjorstad

    No but they are when they are hidden in media b.s like i mentioned(purposely not mentioning that a lot of those people pulledover had some alchol in them too probably)
    No media BS. It was a commercial funded by a non-profit organization.

    hmmm i would have thought otherwise with your ranting and raving of the new beer, which is why i came to say that marijuana is better for your bodybuilding goals then alchol.

    Dont think I even mentioned anything about new beer... I mentioned about mixing vodka in the new sugar free red bull if thats your thing....... nothing about new beer. You see, you dont even get facts straight on references from this board, how do you expect us to listen to you when you say "I heard". No way man.
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    fter hearing about them on another board, sure enough, went to my grocery store and picked up a couple cases. Good for that energy boost when cutting (if you're cutting carbs) or on Keto ( ) They're good too, not to mention if you plan on going out and drinking on the weekends, I dont know if anyone has mixes red bull with vodka but holy ****.....its very good....and this will limit as many carbs as possible.....


    The taste is very close to that of the sugar version...... A+





    Sorry idon't drink so ithought red bull was an alcholic drink. Regardless though you do mention mixing it with vodka and others were mentioning alcohol hence whatstarted the whole anti-alchohol statement.
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    Originally posted by pjorstad

    Sorry idon't drink so ithought red bull was an alcholic drink. Regardless though you do mention mixing it with vodka and others were mentioning alcohol hence whatstarted the whole anti-alchohol statement.

    Honest mistake. I only said this after the rants on other boards (where I orginally heard of this new product). So to save people some extra calories when going out to drink, it was a minor suggestion.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    [B]

    Yes they could, you're right, thus proving my other points about how alcohol and cigarettes are both worthless in society too....
    hmmm.. I agree with the cigarette issue, but I dont with the alcohol... anything in excess is damaging... Im not condoning alcohol, either.. but I do think it has its place in society...

    Whoa....now you're going way out of context. People dont begin steriods use for a high or for euphoric pleasure. Pot is a mental issue, it effects much areas of the body, steriods and marijuana are not comparable in no way other than the legal ramifications.
    i wasnt comparing the 2 as them being similar drugs...eh.. i guess you missed my point .. but you are right... they are not comparable in any way.. but I do think there is a minimalist attitude amongst bodybuilders about steroids and their effects, yet somehow alcohol and pot are damned... but thats another rant, and probably too off topic for this thread...


    Wouldnt that be nice? All in the nads of the user... if only we could control ourselves while drunk or stoned.....but wait, wouldnt that defeat the whole purpose of getting that way? Roid rage is a myth. If you're an *******, you're an *******, artificial hormones dosnt climax this any more.
    I dunno, man.. i dont know who you are referring to about the "purpose of getting that way", but the only people I know that intend to get "out of control" are those that would abuse anything they could, or they are kids that shouldnt be drinking anyway... and really, ive never know anyone to get out of control after smokin dope...  I do believe "roid rage" is a myth... but I also believe that with some people it has a placebo effect... but again... this is way too off topic...

    I know a lot that do. But I know a lot that get real hungry and drive to a fast food place. Ahh, driving while stoned......oh boy.
    oh, im sure it happens all the time... is that the result of responsible use? no...

    Yes there does, but how often do you see that? ****, I hardly see it with sober people doing a job, let alone a stoned guy.
    of course thats the problem with our society... drive drunk and get in a wreck, its the alcohols fault... have sex and have a baby.. its the weed's fault... eat fast food and become obese... its the restaurants fault...

    I dont think everyone can ever see eye to eye with the drinking, etc when dealing in the world of bodybuilding... and rightfully so... but for me... life is a balance... I never plan on being a competitive bodybuilder... thats my choice... my life is fulfilled through art and design... I love bodybuilding.. I love looking the way I do, its an extention of my art... but I also enjoy taking part in life... going out for a drink with the "soon-to-be" wife... what is disheartening is that most "obsessed" bodybuilders that I speak to (especially on message boards) have this self-righteous attitude about drinking, or smoking herb (*cough* *cough* Layne Norton)...

    everyone can agree that drinking and smoking pot isnt gonna prolong yer life... but I do believe that with responsible use... you can enjoy life in moderation and still obtain your goals in bodybuilding...
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    Originally posted by Anxed


    hmmm.. I agree with the cigarette issue, but I dont with the alcohol... anything in excess is damaging... Im not condoning alcohol, either.. but I do think it has its place in society...
    Ah yes, it does in deed have uses. Look how many people die from being killed by drunk drives, look at how many people die from alcohol poisoning, look at how many women are raped by drunks or while they're drunk, look at how many people commit suicide while intoxicated, ahh, the enjoyment of alcohol. People use it as an escape from reality, thats weak, get a hobby.


    oh, im sure it happens all the time... is that the result of responsible use? no...
    Responsible use? Holy **** its a controlled, ILLEGAL substance, the only "responsible" use is non at all.


    of course thats the problem with our society... drive drunk and get in a wreck, its the alcohols fault... have sex and have a baby.. its the weed's fault... eat fast food and become obese... its the restaurants fault...
    Once again, you compare apples to oranges. People who consume alcohol and wreck, do so because they are intoxicated, poeple who eat fast food dont get fat from the food, they get fat because they wont get off their fat lazy asses and take the stairs occasionally, I wouldnt compare a drug which has killed millions to eating fast food and not being physically active. No one said weed leads to sex, which leads to pregnancy, thats ignorance. Thus drinking and driving is ignorance, and those who choose to do it, I sincerly hope you run off a road and hit a tree and mutalate your body and die slowly, I mean that from the bottom of my heart. And I hope Im there in the other lane to witness it.

    I dont think everyone can ever see eye to eye with the drinking, etc when dealing in the world of bodybuilding...
    Im talking real life brother, no relation to bodybuilding. Its wrong in bodybuilding for the reasons mentioned above. Other than that, its none of my business, do what ya gotta do, if that gets you off, have at it, but if you choose to not be in control of yourself and perform ignorance acts, may God implement the worst possible punishment on you....I mean that also.

    but I also enjoy taking part in life... going out for a drink with the "soon-to-be" wife...
    If this is "life" to you and that makes you happy, more power to you, you choose to drive and slam into my kid or my family member, I will likely slit your throat, sounds childish on my part yes, but I take this **** seriously, lost a mother and father at 17 to a drunk, ignorant piece of **** who now resides as a prosecutor for the state, served 6 years......double murder, and served 6 years, think before you act.
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    Responsible use? Holy **** its a controlled, ILLEGAL substance, the only "responsible" use is non at all.




    How ironic YOU say that





    Anyways my intentions for the whole debate were strictly based on bodybuilding. Not on Health, not on what gets you more messed up, what makes you a worse driver etc. In that way i would say marijuana and alchohol are probably similiar. B

    But when it comes to bodybuilding goals plain and simple marijuana has actual advantages as said earlier in the thread. Alchohol has none for the goals of bodybuilding. Now just as a cautionary marijuana will shut your motivation down fast so it is a double edged sword and thats why im glad im not doing it at this critical time in my life but i certainly won't chock it off my list PERMANENTLY or when im more comfortable with my physique as it won't be a big deal if my motivation goes down, ill be sporting a A+ body.
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    Originally posted by pjorstad


    How ironic YOU say that
    I failed to see the irony in this, as Im not a steriods user or pot smoker. If I were to do steriods, once again, there is no comparison.


    But when it comes to bodybuilding goals plain and simple marijuana has actual advantages as said earlier in the thread.
    My point exactly, as SAID, not referenced.
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    I must send an apology goes out to Anxed, sorry brother, got a little to emotional on this on, in no way were the psycho statements meant for you.... you have my respect man, if you were offended, I apologize, wasnt the intentions.
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    I failed to see the irony in this, as Im not a steriods user or pot smoker. If I were to do steriods, once again, there is no comparison.


    Because your saying illegality and using illegal substances is irresponsible, hence using illegal anabolics you MUST feel the same way or else your logic falls apart like jay cutler forgetting clomid after a heavy cycle.
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    Originally posted by pjorstad

    Because your saying illegality and using illegal substances is irresponsible, hence using illegal anabolics you MUST feel the same way or else your logic falls apart like jay cutler forgetting clomid after a heavy cycle.
    The cute analogies are terrible....third I dont condone the use of any illicit drugs, AAS, Weed, etc. If I choose to use AAS, thats my own personal choice, I'll say it again slow for you....

    If you want to drink, smoke pot, use AAS, **** 16 year old girls, do what you gotta do, your personal life is none of my business, jsut be careful when you do it and DONT profess it's use in a bodybuilding atmoshere, because it serves NO purpose.
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    If you want to drink, smoke pot, use AAS, **** 16 year old girls, do what you gotta do, your personal life is none of my business, jsut be careful when you do it and DONT profess it's use in a bodybuilding atmoshere, because it serves NO purpose.

    So as it stands now you can quoted as being anti-steroid and believing it serves no purpose in bodybuilding?? or was that just grouped in their and not part of the conclusion?
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    Well not this is way off topic, but sense we're talking about bodybuilding and controlled drugs again, I'll say this....

    Anabolic Steriods Serve their purpose in bodybuilding. Pot doesnt (I shouldnt have to explain this, but I will) anabolic steriods give you the ability to achieve gains you normally wouldnt or that would normally take you an extreme amount of time......marijuana, well it makes you hungry I guess
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    Yj i probably stand in agreement with you in a way. I tend to agree that weed and alchohol are probably best not taken but my main driving force is the lesser of two evils for bodybuilding. The problem is i haven't smoked weed on a regular basis since ive got into weight training so its hard for me to say if it will necessarily hurt you. All my experience tells me it has positive points if used with caution in mind[ knowing that it may cause a marked decrease in motivation{one can argue that is a question of willpower though} ]


    Sorry i had to do the dantebattista effect there
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    marijuana, well it makes you hungry I guess

    heh. Seriously for an ectomorph with no hunger that is a very SERIOUS PRO for me. Besides as i mentioned it can help with insomnia and it helps with stress. Now it can make you stressed out not being on it but maybe not do it everyday and youll be ok and won't have to wrry about severe mental withdrawls. Remember less stress = less cortisol = more muscle which is critical for a hardgainer like me.
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    Originally posted by pjorstad



    heh. Seriously for an ectomorph with no hunger that is a very SERIOUS PRO for me.
    But this is where you slip up. Ectomorph classification has nothing to do with being hungry, etc. Its a the body type, frame size, and common characteristics are inability to gain weight because of an increased metabolism. I know plenty of ecto's that eat probably double that I do, they jsut cant keep weight becuase its being metabolized seemingly instantly. So pot for an ecto is laughable really, its not that they're not hungry its that when they eat, it being processed very quickly.



    Besides as i mentioned it can help with insomnia
    So can GHB. Point is, you can sleep, smoke some pot, wow. Insomnia is a chronic ailment, usually night a one night deal, so do you advocate smoking pot everytnight until its gone? No, I'd hope not. Insomnia is one of the more weaker arguments as to the benefits of marijuana.


    and it helps with stress.
    So does yoga. If you deal with stress by drinking or smoking pot, you emphasize the common stereotype perfectly, so this falls right into my arugments. There are better ways to deal with stress, run, walk, get a hobby, smoking pot isnt an ideal alternative.


    Remember less stress = less cortisol = more muscle which is critical for a hardgainer like me.
    Gonna pretend I didnt read this one

    Orange juice also has been shown to suppress cortisol. Smoke a blunt, drink a glass of orange juice, not a hard decision if you value your freedom and over all health.
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    But this is where you slip up. Ectomorph classification has nothing to do with being hungry, etc. Its a the body type, frame size, and common characteristics are inability to gain weight because of an increased metabolism. I know plenty of ecto's that eat probably double that I do, they jsut cant keep weight becuase its being metabolized seemingly instantly. So pot for an ecto is laughable really, its not that they're not hungry its that when they eat, it being processed very quickly.

    Thats nice but in order for a ecto to gain he has to have an appetite(something i do not have)! Weed will surely do this.

    Sorry but for me this pro alone is PLENTY even if there wasn't any others.




    Your right though about the insomnia part. Smoking it every night would happen VERY fast if you smoke it before bed and in fact when you stop it will lead to severe insomnia(I experienced this actually) so i retract what i say there
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    I must send an apology goes out to Anxed, sorry brother, got a little to emotional on this on, in no way were the psycho statements meant for you.... you have my respect man, if you were offended, I apologize, wasnt the intentions.
     

    sent you a PM... no worries, man... I totally understand... but I will respectfully bow out of this thread...
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    Originally posted by Anxed


     

    sent you a PM... no worries, man... I totally understand... but I will respectfully bow out of this thread...
    And I will follow your lead and do the same....
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    Yj, I just wanted to add that I agree with everything you said on this thread. I drank booze for years, and smoked pot, did organic mescalin, qualudes and speed. But then I grew up, and realized how much more productive my life was without all that crap, and never looked back. Haven't even had a beer in over 10 years. You have my greatest respect for your strong stand on these issues.
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    Cool


    If anyone would like, I took part in a research experiment done on rats that explains drug addiction (mainly Heroine and Cocaine) and I could type up a bunch of stuff on that if you think it's relevant.
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    Originally posted by pjorstad

    Thats nice but in order for a ecto to gain he has to have an appetite(something i do not have)! Weed will surely do this.

    Sorry but for me this pro alone is PLENTY even if there wasn't any others.

    Your right though about the insomnia part. Smoking it every night would happen VERY fast if you smoke it before bed and in fact when you stop it will lead to severe insomnia(I experienced this actually) so i retract what i say there
    So you're saying smoking weed as a sleep aid for insomnia symptoms is bad because of the potential frequency, but smoking in attempt to gain appetite (for an ecto no less, who should be eating tons regardless) is acceptable? Not sure I get that... besides, lack of appetite is a ***** excuse for smokin mj... if you are trying to bodybuild, and know you should be eating... just ****ing eat it's not rocket science. Put food in mouth, chew, swallow. Whatever happened to discipline?

    Got glaucoma? Dying of cancer? Or do you just like smoking weed. There are only a few reasons for it that I can see, and trying to apply it to bodybuilding is silly and pointless. Just opinions, not addressing you personally Pjorstad.
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    o you're saying smoking weed as a sleep aid for insomnia symptoms is bad because of the potential frequency

    Maybe, but more importantly when you stop smoking the weed then the insomnia will come back and stronger then ever making stopping at night very very hard( I know trust me). So in the end you didn't cure the insomnia, you just caused it to worsen when you get off and the fact you become dependant on it at night. This applies for alchohol too though probably.


    If you used it for appetite enhancement that could cause you to increase frequency which could lead to demotivation in the end. I guess it all comes down to mindpower. THe stronger you are motivated the less doing weed will bother you. Im sure there are people that can smoke it every day(except before the workout) and actually not lose any motivation for workouts. I bet i could do it at this point after all the hard work ive put in. there is no way in hell i would stop for ANYTHING.
  

  
 

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