Selling Ephedra Products
- 05-28-2004, 06:25 AM
Selling Ephedra Products
What would the consequences be of selling Ephedra products now that they are banned? I don't know too much about this. Are they Scheduled drugs like AAS now, or something less, or what? Also I don't know if it's come up, but would it be Taboo to try and sell Ephedra products in the Swap Meet section? Not that I have any (I really don't), but Nor-E has been banned for a while now and I picked up some NYCA in the Swap Meet section a few weeks back. A lot of these retailers have to have a decent stock left of them, even with some of the really good sales in the final few days like 1Fast had. I wonder what will become of all those delicious bottles of Lipo-6?
- 05-28-2004, 07:13 AM
they are not illegal to possess, and are certainly not scheduled.
dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids are considered "adulterated drugs" now. that means the FDA has jurisdiction.
if you care, i have a PDF file of the 363!!!! page ruling in the federal register. i have not read the whole thing. basically, the ruling is primarily designed to ban the SALE of dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids.
*i* would not sell any dietary products containing ephedrine alkaloids, based upon the ruling. FDA cannot go after end USERS. and most probably WOULD not go after individuals selling these adulterated drugs. the ruling is designed for retailer and manufacturer. but they theoretically COULD, as i interpret the ruling.
i don't have time to page through 363 pages on my computer, since it is dialup and loads a page at a time. in short, i would not SELL any ephedrine alkaloid containing dietary supplements (which are now not considerred dietary supplements - they are adulterated drugs)
possession is fine
frankly, if it wasn't in PDF form, i would have a more definitive answer for you. but it just takes too long to read in that form
in brief, the FDA ruling made it an adulterated drug. those are illegal to sell, or to manufacture for sales.
they are not illegal to possess. generally speaking.
- 05-28-2004, 12:10 PM
And transferring possession in a swapping capacity, then, is probably not "illegal." Just like selling a gun through a classified ad in the newspaper is not illegal...and likewise, purchasing an antique bottle of "tonic pills" from the 20's that contain morphine hcl is not illegal.
I wouldn't worry at all about the swap meet.
Now if someone would just unload some Lipo-6 or some Dyma-Burn Xtreme!
05-28-2004, 05:52 PM
brodus, i'm not so sure.
like i said, i haven't read the exact wording, but the issue is whether they refer to selling or distributing. for example, TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, if you are at a party and you are smoking a joint, and you pass the joint ("pass the duchie") to the guy next to you, that is the SAME crime as selling marijuna, in many jurisdictions. it is DISTRIBUTION. not that the prosecutors would necessarily charge you with same.
you are quite possibly right, but who knows. i am not aware of ANY case law on this subject (because it's brand new) , and like i said - the PDF file is too long for me to page to the middle and get the exact wording, which is of course subject to interpretation.
what it would come down to is : is there a ban on distributing, is there a ban on selling, or is there a ban on COMMERCIAL distribution?
again, *i* would not play around with this area of law, without KNOWING EXACTLY what the law says. i am completely certain it is legal to possess. whether or not it is legal to sell, as a private individual, is not determined one way or the other for me, so i would avoid it - discretion being the better part of valor
05-28-2004, 06:59 PM
All I'm saying is that as long as it's legal for people to buy handguns through the want ads and sell real roids on eBay, the last thing you have to worry about is a private, secure transaction for a natrually occurring herb that is brokered through private communication and personal mail. Whatever the technicality is, I can't imagine any police officer wasting time to "bust" someone for "distributing" a few grams of ephedrine alkaloids.
05-28-2004, 07:11 PM
the handgun analogy doesn't make sense. handguns are not an 'adulterated drug' and ARE legal to sell. furthermore, there is specific "gun show exceptioN" written INTO the law to allow private exchange. there is no such statute vis a vis ephedra
it is NOT legal to sell scheduled substances on Ebay, so i don't know what you are tlaking about there.
and i say again, *i* am not saying the FDA would prosecute you. furthermore, selling ephedrine alkaloids is NOT illegal. selling ephedrine alkaloids in DIETARY SUPPLEMENT form IS.
for example, you can sell bronkaid tabs.
again, i think you are misunderstanding what i am saying. i am not saying you WOULD be prosecuted. i am saying you POSSIBLY could. nowhere did i say you would. reread what i said. there is NO case law on this.
furthermore, a POLICE OFFICER could not investigate it, since it doesn't fall under local police jurisdiction, but under the FDA's jurisdiction, so unless they were working in a task force, it's a non-issue.
i repeat my statement: legal to possess, arguably illegal to sell.
and i stand by that.
05-28-2004, 10:44 PM
I hear you...
Cool, I hear you.
"i am not saying you WOULD be prosecuted. i am saying you POSSIBLY could."
True, guns aren't "adulterated drugs." By analogy to the gray area handgun trade (is it illegal for me to "Sell" my shotgun and ammo to my 12 year old cousin? Who's watching? Who would care?) and the auctions listed below, I guess I was weighing how significant "possibly" is, and in this case, I would say it is very insignificant. I would say you'd have to be extremely paranoid to worry about selling a couple bottles of Lipo 6 on the Swap Meet.
Real Roids that WILL sell and not get cancelled (watch the auction if you doubt me):
Andorstenedione Products: (not that anyone would want them, but it is a banned substance)
05-29-2004, 01:13 AM
interesting. my point was strictly to answer his question as to legal or illegal. there are lots of illegal things that people do and don't get caught. but that is not the same thing as saying it's legal.
but i think we understand each other
like, i said... *i* would not sell things that were FDA listed adulterated drugs.
however, this is not the same as saying the FDA is going to care if some guy is selling a couple of bottles of pre-bought MD6.
i agree. the chances they would are very very very very small.
but, from a letter of the law angle, it's still problematic.
possession is totally okey dokey, though.
i would rather not get into the nuances of firearms trade. that is WAY more complex.
as for the ebay stuff... that is amazing that people do that.
05-29-2004, 11:25 PM
I hear you on the problematic end of things...and if I had other things in my house/life that I might worry about from a legal point of view, I certainly wouldn't want to compound it...I guess I'm secretly hoping someone here will sell me their ephedra thermogenic stash!
Re: the auctions--I know, isn't it insane that people sell that stuff on eBay?! I have tracked a bunch of these auctions, and not only did they sell, they got good feedback from different people, and no cancellations. Crazy.
05-30-2004, 09:47 AM
I was hoping a mod could chime in with a "Yay" or "Nay" on whether it's cool to sell Thermogenics w/ ephedra in the Swap Meet section...
05-30-2004, 05:44 PM
i just spent CONSIDERABLED time reading the PDF document. on broadband. i can now state more definititely that selling *or* distributing ***DIETARY supplements*** containing ephedra alkaloids OR ephedrine hcl IS illegal.
those with ephedra alkaloids are considered "ADULTERATED DRUGS"
those with ephedrine hcl, ephedrine sulfate, etc. cannot be legally marketed as dietary supplements because "they are not constituents or extracts of a botanical, nor do they qualify as any other type of dietary ingredient"
note that this does NOT apply to OTC drugs e.g. bronkaid, primatene, etc.
it only applies to dietary supplements (which are now no longer dietary supplements - they are adulterated drugs).
in brief, i don't care what AM decides is their policy, but according to the FDA, selling or distributing the aforementioned products (except for OTC drugs) is illegal, whether done as an individual or a company.
i have the PDF if anybody is interested (in boring themselves..)
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