Big brother is watching

[wilsmash4food]

I have been a member on AM for a while now, and I have read god knows how many logs/posts/threads for my own reasearch. I have noticed here lately that there have been a lot of threads started by "guys that are new to AM" who were just wondering if anyone had any good sources to get gear. they always ask for folks to PM the info. It struck me strange. I may be paranoid but I think the somebody is posing as a newb to try and get a member to hang himself. Not the DEA or anything but maybe some private anti steroid group. Anabolic to catch a predator or something. Something to think about. :tapedshut:

 

[Kristofer68SS]

"they" have always been watching.

where you been brah?

a cave?

lol

 

[gamer2be08]

I have been a member on AM for a while now, and I have read god knows how many logs/posts/threads for my own reasearch. I have noticed here lately that there have been a lot of threads started by "guys that are new to AM" who were just wondering if anyone had any good sources to get gear. they always ask for folks to PM the info. It struck me strange. I may be paranoid but I think the somebody is posing as a newb to try and get a member to hang himself. Not the DEA or anything but maybe some private anti steroid group. Anabolic to catch a predator or something. Something to think about. :tapedshut:

Ya, dont give any stranger your name or addy lol...

 

[Zero V]

They been here forever, in fact there may be a DEA agent who has even become a prominent member, we wont know. Its a shame they will waste tax dollars to get on here instead of doing something like stopping heroin or cocaine from being used...nope, steroids are pure evil....


Every board has em. And about giving out your address, lol I am sure if they want it they can get it through IP. Still dont volunteer it.

Makes me hate their guts all the more, I hope they get hit by a massive turd dropped out of a passing airplane...

It is a DEA agents job to become your buddy, gain your trust, build a friendship that you value, then slit your throat and put you in jail....

Yeah nice way to maintain a moral police force for something and be the "good" guys. Overpaid useless piece of crap working for BigPharma is more like it, in the roundabout way thats pretty much it.


My slightly Biased-personal view

Big Pharma pays FDA to ban said Item, using FDA standards Federal laws are enforced through DEA.

The only good thing your average person who uses has going for them is the cost ratio it runs to bust someone for buying a couple vials of test in no way is productive nor negates the use of steroids, and then the punishment for a first time bust on someone is so minuscule over steroids its almost pointless....I mean...serious. But if your a dealer, your FUBAR if busted.

Either way there is nothing illegal in my house so, meh doesnt bother me.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

They been here forever, in fact there may be a DEA agent who has even become a prominent member, we wont know. Its a shame they will waste tax dollars to get on here instead of doing something like stopping heroin or cocaine from being used...nope, steroids are pure evil....


Every board has em. And about giving out your address, lol I am sure if they want it they can get it through IP. Still dont volunteer it.

Makes me hate their guts all the more, I hope they get hit by a massive turd dropped out of a passing airplane...

It is a DEA agents job to become your buddy, gain your trust, build a friendship that you value, then slit your throat and put you in jail....

Yeah nice way to maintain a moral police force for something and be the "good" guys. Overpaid useless piece of crap working for BigPharma is more like it, in the roundabout way thats pretty much it.


My slightly Biased-personal view

Big Pharma pays FDA to ban said Item, using FDA standards Federal laws are enforced through DEA.

The only good thing your average person who uses has going for them is the cost ratio it runs to bust someone for buying a couple vials of test in no way is productive nor negates the use of steroids, and then the punishment for a first time bust on someone is so minuscule over steroids its almost pointless....I mean...serious. But if your a dealer, your FUBAR if busted.

Now, tell us how you really feel brah.

Let it ALL out this time.

 

[LichKing]

blame deeerdreee

 

[Troy1982]

<--------- 1984

 

[wilsmash4food]

Heh..Ive started a conspiracy theory. I have much less hostile views on the DEA. On the field agents anyway. Their job is to go and make cases on people. Their personal views or morals have little to do with it. And fortunately (or unfortunately if you are a dealer) they are pretty good. They have to make a paycheck just like everybody else. The problem is with the drug companies. the buck ultimately stops with them to decide what is "safe" for the public. Of course its not profitable for some small private company (C.E.L. is a good example) to succeed because they make a decent product that people want. Then when enough money changes hands in legislature, laws are made. Often times that law benefits whoever has the most to lose, namely the drug companies. After some been counters and pencil pushers make the law, agencies like the DEA have no choice but to enforce it. Either that or find another way to feed their family.

 

[wontstop985]

I hope they get hit by a massive turd dropped out of a passing airplane...

Classic.

 

[T-AD]

Thread saved and forwarded...



:trout:

 

[MarBaSxx]

A good way to be anonymous on the internet is to use a secure VPN for internet and then your ip address is not traced back to you. I use giganews for newsgroup downloads and they have a service called vyprvpn that gives you a anonymous ip to use that cant be tracked and your activity online is safe...its expensive but worth it in my opinion. Also if you have incriminating data on your harddrive i suggest everyone to learn to use trucrypt encryption. LE cannot cracked some of the highest levels of encryption and there are ways to have hidden drives that are undetectable.

 

[C Dub805]

No need to be paranoid......Like a member said, "They have always been watching." The juice world isn't as secretive as many of you would lead others to believe. A simple, public search on the web will yield hundreds of sources from which to purchase LEGIT juice. It's a pretty simple task. The only headache involved is weeding out the fakes that will most certainly surface during your search. I realize we can't name names or identify sources here, but you can contact the juice manufacturers directly and inquire as to who their authorized dealers are.......They will be happy to tell you!

Btw, the FEDS don't have time to waste on chicken ****....They go after the BIG DAWGS (big time dealers)! A federal conviction requires a significant amount of the contraband! And, juice isn't illegal in most countries so they certainly aren't (can't) go after manufacturers who sell what is LEGAL in their jurisdictions. It's on the buyer (you) to obey the laws in YOUR country. But, if you think Special Agent Do-Right is going to knock on your door and inquire about the 10ml vial of Test you purchased from some European pharmacy, take a deep breath, grab a beer and relax......Aint gonna happen!!!!!

 

[bigpapa]

they have always been watching. they r everywhere. instead of actually fixing real problems in this country they are concentrating on this ****....o they r on facebook also. if u get a friend request from somebody u dont know and they have like a few friends, odds are it is a some form of government agent.

 

[MarBaSxx]

they have always been watching. they r everywhere. instead of actually fixing real problems in this country they are concentrating on this ****....o they r on facebook also. if u get a friend request from somebody u dont know and they have like a few friends, odds are it is a some form of government agent.

yeah i wouldnt worry about them...as long as you have personal amounts they probably wont bother you...if they want you they will come get you

 

[Zero V]

yeah i wouldnt worry about them...as long as you have personal amounts they probably wont bother you...if they want you they will come get you

On average I meet alot of people who use...(kinda freaked out myself by how common it is....even amongst people of my religion o.0). And they are as relaxed about it as a pothead is about weed. Except they find it much less of a moral issue. Its a product being used for results, not a narcotic used for...getting high. Its a whole different mindset. And even non-users who know about it honestly dont care, they just think its "bad" for them. Where as if it was any other drug, they would be trying to get them to stop, interventions, etc.

I figure half the people forced to enforce it honestly dont care and would rather go after people selling meth and actually ruining peoples lives.

Steroids are more and more becoming accepted.by people. I disapprove of its use in sports myself, but only those lacking a real competitive spirit will use em and they will use em anyways, the rest just want that boost and experience and the benefit of using.

 

[matthew76]

On average I meet alot of people who use...(kinda freaked out myself by how common it is....even amongst people of my religion o.0). And they are as relaxed about it as a pothead is about weed. Except they find it much less of a moral issue. Its a product being used for results, not a narcotic used for...getting high. Its a whole different mindset. And even non-users who know about it honestly dont care, they just think its "bad" for them. Where as if it was any other drug, they would be trying to get them to stop, interventions, etc.

Referring to Steroids vs. Marijuana in terms of use/acceptance amongst Christians and making one seem okay for use for results and the other to het high different in terms of Sins (in the Biblical sense), then that is completely asinine! If one was using Steroids for results such as aesthetic purposes, then (in Biblical sense) that is narcissism and self-lust. A (Biblical) Sin is Sin no matter the justification. Now, if one was using Testosterone/hCG/HGH for nothing more than medical reasons, such a deficiencies, cancer, etc, then it would be considered clean.

 

[Zero V]

Referring to Steroids vs. Marijuana in terms of use/acceptance amongst Christians and making one seem okay for use for results and the other to het high different in terms of Sins (in the Biblical sense), then that is completely asinine! If one was using Steroids for results such as aesthetic purposes, then (in Biblical sense) that is narcissism and self-lust. A (Biblical) Sin is Sin no matter the justification. Now, if one was using Testosterone/hCG/HGH for nothing more than medical reasons, such a deficiencies, cancer, etc, then it would be considered clean.

Never said I agreed with the views, just stating what I have seen mate. Then again I know alot of older mature Christians who actually are not against Marijuana either. Some have seen people kick alcoholism with its use, and other benefits.

Young men and women of the faith often suffer from the need to be "physically" perfect to attract their partner. Hence why I believe most common Christian marriages stand a less or equal the chance of success than secular ones, and yet a marriage between two mature Christians is almost unbreakable by any means.

Same applies to drinking in the faith. A glass of wine ever couple days is in no way getting drunk and is healthy. Yet some will crucify you for it, others accept it. I hate politics in the church, honestly I do. Go there for God, unless someone is blatantly in sin and it is consuming them, their family, or even the church(which happened recently to mine thanks to a pastor who has fallen...)

So steroids...if they are using it for personal reasons, using it safely, and its not an addiction I see it as between them and God. Maybe its for vanity? Maybe its for goals? Is every bodybuilder going to hell out of narcissism? Is every weightlifter who wants a 250, or 300, or 350 bench and uses juice to hit it going to hell? There are Christians who do these things as a lifestyle.

I duno, I may ask myself that question one day if I finally come to the point where I do something. I will seek God myself, and honestly I think he would prefer me staying natural. But the question is, out of the weakness of temptation of the flesh, will he tolerate? Honestly thats what it comes down to, what does he tolerate, because we all fall short of the Glory of God. Its just somethings have far more of a spiritual effect than others do.

The reason we even have divorcement is out of the hardness of our hearts, the reason we used to be able to stone a hoe as well. lol

I claim not to know all about this, and I have stood on harsh opinions and extremist views many times, that I later decided are not really what I feel at heart and disregard. Maybe I am getting old, I dont know.

Steroids dont fall into the obvious and spiritually insulting group of sins to me, thats all I know and feel. Neither does moderate drinking(not-drunk), or bodybuilding.

 

[matthew76]

Steroids dont fall into the obvious and spiritually insulting group of sins to me, thats all I know and feel. Neither does moderate drinking(not-drunk), or bodybuilding.

So do you think it is okay to live outside of His way and still consider yourself a full fledged Christian? And this is not an attack on you, just a question? And if you say you feel it isn't bad, but know for sure that self-lust is bad, then how can you say you are walking in His way?

 

[Zero V]

So do you think it is okay to live outside of His way and still consider yourself a full fledged Christian? And this is not an attack on you, just a question? And if you say you feel it isn't bad, but know for sure that self-lust is bad, then how can you say you are walking in His way?

Presence of the Holy Spirit and conviction it brings...is the main guidance I use. And if I dont feel it at all, I know alot of something is wrong in my life and needs fixed. We are human, we will fall.

I dont think its ok at all to live outside his way, yet I also dont consider using steroids being outside of his way, or the families I know who drink lightly with their dinner(in no way becoming drunkards).

Self lust is always bad. Why do I love the gym? Do I enjoy looking in the mirror and seeing new striations, being bigger, knowing I am stronger, faster? I do enjoy that, but becoming a personal trainer and so on I am making it my life, and the state of my body is also a selling point of my knowledge.

I will say one of the reasons I think I developed tendinitus in both my legs was because I was becoming too vain over my physical accomplishments, and I honestly felt God "alleviated" the source of vainess by knocking me down pretty literally.

Look at the overly simplified view of it...

Supplements then fall into the same field. Steroids are a form of supplementation...on steroids....(pun, get it haha :ntome: ). Just to the extremes that it crosses hormonal boundaries. Now this would make a test booster also lightly included, as well as something that burns fat so you can get that more "sexxy" look.

The entire field of supplementation exists for the purpose of people reaching their physical goals(some is honestly just healthy such as a multi, fish oil, etc). Steroids are just demonized, when in reality they are merely the kings of an empire that exists within our fitness world. Riskier, harsher, yes...


Now at the same time are christians to be fat and lazy? Or are they allowed to reach their potential that God gave them a drive to reach in the first place? I cant not lift, and cant not grow. Its honestly a big part of my life, and one of my forms of "therapy" for myself.

Literal argument: No where in the Bible did it say "Thou shalt not juice and get hyuuuge"

Serious Argument: It is said you should take care of your temple, and obey the laws of the land unless they contradict the laws of God

Argument of contemplation: I know its not a directly forbidden act, but why am I desiring to do it? Are the motives any of the the deadly sins, or are they something less harmful and just natural?

Extremist argument: Using steroids is immoral, illegal, and wrong. Your gona burn in hell!

I bet you could walk into ANY church, and get a form of those 4 arguments...and more. Now who is right? Who is so close to God that their word is dominant?

No one, while God may speak through others and inspire them, and may even use another to bring conviction upon you, it is ultimately you he will be dealing with and him who you will be dealing with.

It is my current belief that while its not the best thing to do while seeking a growing relationship with God, I also dont think its going to utterly destroy you. The truth is, we should always seek to be our best, but the truth is also that we never will be perfect.

 

[matthew76]

I'm sorry, man, but I feel as if you are perverting the Word to suit your own. But hey, it's your life to live, enjoy the ride.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

I'm sorry, man, but I feel as if you are perverting the Word to suit your own. But hey, it's your life to live, enjoy the ride.

yeah, hes the only one doing that.



couldnt help myself.

 

[Zero V]

I'm sorry, man, but I feel as if you are perverting the Word to suit your own. But hey, it's your life to live, enjoy the ride.

Its not perverting it. I am not "justifying" anything, thats perversion. I didnt say using anabolics glorifies God, nor does it further ones walk with God. But I dont see it dragging someone down into hell either...

I am simply trying not to judge something I have not felt personal conviction over. You show me the Christian who has everything 100% right, and I will show you the anti-christ because the only man who got it 100% right was Christ.

 

[matthew76]

It's all good, Zero. We all have an opinion, so it's always cool to hear someone elses'.
On the subject liner, this picture sums it up:

 

[eatbigliftbig]

Yup. I know I am new, so for all you guys know I could be "big brother". But I'll just say this, I'm so pissed of hearing all the anti steroid and anti performance enhancing crap. How many more deaths, diseases, and accidents are cause by alcohol. What about cigarettes. Hell, there are ridiculous side affects and more issues caused with OTC medicines and RXs. It's just frustrating for some one who trains consistent, eats clean, respects their body, and does hours upon hours of research on how to safely and effectively use AS, but can't trust any place for fear that they are one of a million scammers, or selling poison in a bottle. They govt should make this stuff legal and tax it so as to avoid people hurting themselves using UG crap that causes way more issues that legit AS ever would. I don't know how to gain the trust/respect of people on here, but I would really like to know if I could verify some of the sites I've found, or get a source at some point down the line. Any advice for an experienced PH user with many years of lifting under my belt that would like to make the jump to AS.

 

[Zero V]

Yup. I know I am new, so for all you guys know I could be "big brother". But I'll just say this, I'm so pissed of hearing all the anti steroid and anti performance enhancing crap. How many more deaths, diseases, and accidents are cause by alcohol. What about cigarettes. Hell, there are ridiculous side affects and more issues caused with OTC medicines and RXs. It's just frustrating for some one who trains consistent, eats clean, respects their body, and does hours upon hours of research on how to safely and effectively use AS, but can't trust any place for fear that they are one of a million scammers, or selling poison in a bottle. They govt should make this stuff legal and tax it so as to avoid people hurting themselves using UG crap that causes way more issues that legit AS ever would. I don't know how to gain the trust/respect of people on here, but I would really like to know if I could verify some of the sites I've found, or get a source at some point down the line. Any advice for an experienced PH user with many years of lifting under my belt that would like to make the jump to AS.

ITs like this....

I am a good citizen, I pay my taxes. Yeah I hate the government, but thats standard today. I dont hurt anyone, try to help as many as I can, attend church every time I can, do whats right, hold a job, obey the laws, am actually intelligent, etc,etc,etc. But if I get caught using steroids, NONE of that matters, its time to be threatened with fines and possibly even jail time...

So a man is wicked because he uses steroids?

No?

Then why the hell is it illegal?

When birth control pills(yaz) are ruining lives, most prescriptions have a % of users who WILL die from it(its all a math game), etc,etc,etc...

 

[MentalTwitch]

ITs like this....

I am a good citizen, I pay my taxes. Yeah I hate the government, but thats standard today. I dont hurt anyone, try to help as many as I can, attend church every time I can, do whats right, hold a job, obey the laws, am actually intelligent, etc,etc,etc. But if I get caught using steroids, NONE of that matters, its time to be threatened with fines and possibly even jail time...

So a man is wicked because he uses steroids?

No?

Then why the hell is it illegal?

When birth control pills(yaz) are ruining lives, most prescriptions have a % of users who WILL die from it(its all a math game), etc,etc,etc...

I'm sorry but your arguements suck. I'd bet if you church knew the way you had these vews they'd shun you. You use religion as a crutch for not feeling meaningful in your life. You seem to be the type of person who uses it to your advantage but do what you want and say it's ok because reason 1,2,3...like the whole working out thing. Its vein, it's a sin therefor you lose.
This is obsurd to me and i'm not even religious but know PLENTY about a few.
Your attitude and views after seeing your morals and views do not mix and would ofend any christian/catholic. I'm guessing that's what you are since someone mentioned it before and you never answered me on what your stand is.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

"they" dont want us bigger, faster and in shape.

the want us fat, out of shape and unhealthy.

In reality, if we are not consuming something, spending money or getting sick(spending money) we are a liablity to this global military industrial complex.

 

[DEA AGENT]

Hello just checking in... Hope everyone is sticking to protein and creatin. Now everyone behave themselves by the way pm me if you need a source. Remember I am always watching...

 

[T-AD]

Hello just checking in... Hope everyone is sticking to protein and creatin. Now everyone behave themselves by the way pm me if you need a source. Remember I am always watching...

Wow. That was just....

 

[Zero V]

I'm sorry but your arguements suck. I'd bet if you church knew the way you had these vews they'd shun you. You use religion as a crutch for not feeling meaningful in your life. You seem to be the type of person who uses it to your advantage but do what you want and say it's ok because reason 1,2,3...like the whole working out thing. Its vein, it's a sin therefor you lose.
This is obsurd to me and i'm not even religious but know PLENTY about a few.
Your attitude and views after seeing your morals and views do not mix and would ofend any christian/catholic. I'm guessing that's what you are since someone mentioned it before and you never answered me on what your stand is.

Long winded piece coming...

My church knows my study of choice personally(outside real school) is Anabolic Pharmacology, even the nurse there knows this. As well as my opinions on it. They dont mind, and I have never been shunned. I know steroid users from multiple churchs(big and small) and they can actually talk pretty openly. We are talking in churchs that have from 50 peeps average to 500 peeps average....you just simply dont know how common this subject is now.

That and you seem to have been so easily fooled into the "demonization" of it, seems big bro did a good job on ya.


My joke nickname has been "The BloodyScientific" in the church, I have a very science based knowledge and often would prefer a bloody end to many scenarios where I perceive wickedness or corruption to be involved. You my friend would be surprised by alot, many Christians are not pushovers anymore. Many of them know the time when the church may have to fight literally for the lives of its members could come in our later lifetime. The church I was just in Thursday, one of the people of the ministry believes in guns and was packing a pistol under his shirt since he had a CC permit, a guy about my age. Another gentleman spoke to me about cycles, and we explained the truth about steroids to a couple girls that came up to us. Read the old testament sometime, where death and blood shed was common....

Shunned? not by any means. Shunning would mean judging. Alcoholism and smoking would be more harshly argued against than some roids. Especially since they see these guys use, then be perfectly fine if not better off afterwards...Using steroids simply has not shown "evil" to anyone or created a sense of "wrongness". Its more of a science most admit they dont understand.

And with this knowledge of who I am, what I believe, and how I act I have been offered spots as a youth leader over 75 kids, been welcomed in churchs, offered to have my spot paid for for missionary trips. You sir, simply have not been in a church long enough to realize its not an organization of judgmental people, its a family. Black sheep accepted as well.

BTW its Vain, not vein.

And above all, I am very happy and proud of the fact I am always trusted. Why? Because I am transparent, hide no dark ends to my means, and pretty much will bend over backwards for anyone in need. Simply because I believe the use of a steroid is not a horrible thing should disqualify me? When more and more people are accepting it, even normal people its just not as "scary" as it was now that truths come out.

The only issue I would see with it is being a good steward of your money, and that is justifying a cycle for 250 bucks, instead of putting it towards something important. Trust me no church keeps me for my money, I am poor. One of the many reasons(health included) I have never ran a cycle yet. Then again many Christians rushed out to pick up a 600$ iphone when it came out, so I dont worry much about it...

I am a Christian, Pentecostal in fact. Which means seeing a mans busted knee heal instantly, or cancer vanish, and the likes are common place. Call religion as you wish, but what happens, happens. How I would take advantage of a church I dont know, I usually give more to a church than I received though I have been blessed a few times by members in times of need. They are my family outside my family. And as me using it to make my life meaningful...trust my my friend, if it was not for Gods laws I would have a good deal of meaning to my life, I simply restrict that meaning now to being just where as before without teaching it would have just been harsh...


Never been one to believe an alien ship flew by, a lil green dude busted a nut in the primordial soup, and over billions of years we evolved from retarded fish frogs into monkeys into humans....yeah....

Your image of Christians is absurdly stiff, more like catholics. Just without the butt raping of lil boys. :stooges:

You seem confused that I am....a human onder:

I think I lost a lil respect for your intelligence after that post...Usually I am the one making wide encompassing comments that borderline extreme views, wtf gtfo out of my spot.

 

[matthew76]

How many cycles have you run, Zero?

 

[Zero V]

How many cycles have you run, Zero?

This has been stated about 20 times.....even in that last post I made.

It rhymes with my name...


I love the study of it, I keep books about it(like Seth Roberts Anabolic Pharmacology), research it in medical journals, follow logs, review results, read tests, study it almost like its school. I inspired me to go into pharmacology or chemistry, but I do not have the ability to go down those paths do to money/time issues, so it remains a side source of study.

I plan to cycle, got a few bottles of PH/DS around, and have sources for anything I would ever want if I so desired it.

Of course, this is all if I seem to live that long, sometimes I think my body may trump me first...

Across all the boards I see, all the users I know in person, its simply a fascinating field of study.

EDIT: It also leads to studying our adrenals, and every other bit of physiology we can control as humans. The future, if we are so allowed to continue to exist, is going to be a crazy place. We still know only a little about the human physiology. We know a dangsite more than we did 100 years ago, but somethings are still not 100% known, such as steroids and other reactions in our bodies.

 

[carpee]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Zero V again."
:bigok:

 

[MentalTwitch]

ok, well you guys are safe in the church i forgot about that. It's not that im ignorant at all to your religion or how "advanced" you think you are and so cutting edge and modern. That's EXACTLY what my point was. You have lost all values of what religion truely was and is supposed to be, say it's ok to do what you're doing and then use religion to your leverage when needed.
You talk openly about cycles, that real classy you do that in a church. Illegal discussions about illegal use of non-perscribed drugs...wow.
It's a mind **** trying to talk to religious people. I am glad many think they are open minded now but i just can't agree you(not specifically you) are.
That is one major issue i have with religion(s), "this is literal" "this is metaphorical" come one, pick one. How do you know which is which? Because each religion has a book, often translated and interpreted many 100s of years ago.
I'd rather not keep having these petty arguements, mainly because it'll never get anywhere.
Also, i could care less if you lost respect for me. It's a public board, deal with it. If you think these types of conversations can be handled well online in a forum you are mistaken and obviously don't care to heard an outside perspective that threatens your "beliefs" I can rip religion down in a heartbeat in your head in a scientific manner and all you will respond with is garbage like, prove it, i know it/he there, how do you know, etc etc. I know all the arguements because i studied for a year Creationism vs Evolution. It encompassed about 4-6 religions and aspects of them. Not need though since most of them repeat eachother or have the same story, characters and endings.
long winded response...oops that was supposed to be at the start, im an idiot...( that really annoyed me when you typed that, its reading on the screen.)

I may or may not pop back in here, if i do i may not respond. Not out of fear or disrespect but laziness and respect to you, do whatever makes you happy.

 

[JIXXER]

This is sssooo not where I parked my car......:why:

 

[Zero V]

ok, well you guys are safe in the church i forgot about that. It's not that im ignorant at all to your religion or how "advanced" you think you are and so cutting edge and modern. That's EXACTLY what my point was. You have lost all values of what religion truely was and is supposed to be, say it's ok to do what you're doing and then use religion to your leverage when needed.
You talk openly about cycles, that real classy you do that in a church. Illegal discussions about illegal use of non-perscribed drugs...wow.
It's a mind **** trying to talk to religious people. I am glad many think they are open minded now but i just can't agree you(not specifically you) are.
That is one major issue i have with religion(s), "this is literal" "this is metaphorical" come one, pick one. How do you know which is which? Because each religion has a book, often translated and interpreted many 100s of years ago.
I'd rather not keep having these petty arguements, mainly because it'll never get anywhere.
Also, i could care less if you lost respect for me. It's a public board, deal with it. If you think these types of conversations can be handled well online in a forum you are mistaken and obviously don't care to heard an outside perspective that threatens your "beliefs" I can rip religion down in a heartbeat in your head in a scientific manner and all you will respond with is garbage like, prove it, i know it/he there, how do you know, etc etc. I know all the arguements because i studied for a year Creationism vs Evolution. It encompassed about 4-6 religions and aspects of them. Not need though since most of them repeat eachother or have the same story, characters and endings.
long winded response...oops that was supposed to be at the start, im an idiot...( that really annoyed me when you typed that, its reading on the screen.)

I may or may not pop back in here, if i do i may not respond. Not out of fear or disrespect but laziness and respect to you, do whatever makes you happy.

I understand your point, but over specialize and you breed in weakness....

Illegal? Something is only illegal if this government says it is, this government is no longer a governing power of Morality, it has lost that right. Its a corrupted, failed, joke of a system allowing the wealthy and well connected to keep in control of things and push personal agendas....When they deem it illegal, does not make it illegal to many anymore. The governments voice weakens every week, and I haven an inkling we wont have to suffer hearing for too many more years...Hell I might even be moving out of this country. What is the government? To many a bane, so if a wicked ruling power(tyrant) declares something illegal, then what merit does this declaration have? Our legal system is a joke. While I respect cops, and various low level agents/agencies, the higher ups are pure bullcrap and deserve to be tried for treason and hung publically.

If a wicked man asks me to do not, I will not consider his wishes, but will seek for any wisdom among the workings of his corrupted heart, for even the dark have knowledge. And if I find something of importance, I may make a personal choice to agree that that said task should be avoided, but if I find no merit in it, I will feel nothing to disregard it as nothing more than the wind.

You give too much credit to believing people respect what this government has to say. The only reason most listen is fear or mindlessness....Break those damn chains around your mind that say you have to obey. I still do what is morally right, dont get me wrong. Not gona rob anyone, murder anyone, cheat anyone, steal a car, etc. Freedom is too "over-moderated" to be called freedom anymore. But it is a nice fake freedom that has a sweet taste, but some of us recognize that bitter aftertaste and know its artificial...

 

[MentalTwitch]

I don't have a direct ahtred fror religion as i'm more respectable and understanding than that.
You seemed to ignore my major points and listed your views on the government.
While, oddly enough, i agree our system is corrupt and garbage...It was more a point that how you act in church and ignore what falls into legal activities. Wether you agree with them or not. So you don't think shooting a man is illegal? It's ok, just some silly rule?
Either way as i said, i'd rather try not to keep these non-sense posts going. It's clear resolution will never occur(not just between us) so it's really a matter of you mental state, who places better arguements and so on. Nothing based factualy.
Although, isn't being religion part of respecting government seeing as it's what our country was built on? I know most republicans are religious and feel the country should be under those beliefs.

 

[Zero V]

I don't have a direct ahtred fror religion as i'm more respectable and understanding than that.
You seemed to ignore my major points and listed your views on the government.
While, oddly enough, i agree our system is corrupt and garbage...It was more a point that how you act in church and ignore what falls into legal activities. Wether you agree with them or not. So you don't think shooting a man is illegal? It's ok, just some silly rule?
Either way as i said, i'd rather try not to keep these non-sense posts going. It's clear resolution will never occur(not just between us) so it's really a matter of you mental state, who places better arguements and so on. Nothing based factualy.
Although, isn't being religion part of respecting government seeing as it's what our country was built on? I know most republicans are religious and feel the country should be under those beliefs.

I agree the back and forth, as it has been done many a time by many persons on this board, is pointless. Not that anyone is the better, its just that free will and individual beliefs will always clash amongst some.

As for the last part though that you asked of me, technically it can be. God said to obey those he places in charge, but he also has brought about the overthrow of those in charge once they become wicked. It was Gods will we overthrew British rule, and became a powerful nation. Today though, with ungodly people running the nation, it is different. Gods laws are above the lands laws. The federal law comes second, period. Now the federal systems beliefs and laws clash with many of Gods, I can no longer count myself bound to them. Free men choose their leaders, and I choose not the ones we have.

Even most republicans are corrupt. I am neither a conservative or a liberal(hate liberals period). I am extreme in my own rights on some subjects, and very common in other beliefs. If I fall into anything, its a constitutionalist. I want it restored to its former glory. I do not hate America, but I hate the slothful and wicked spirit it has adopted, and the corrupt ruling power....

If that answers the question, and as being illegal....like I said, legality is really a personal moral choice if you have no binding feelings to a system. Its common place today to hate the government, its crumbling is eventual. The only task is to stay out of jail in which you could be placed by people who have no right or just means to judge you guilty of an illegal act, for they themselves are of a corrupt system.

Wise men are few anymore, and none of them become politicians, no most of them become what appears to be peasants, but they lay the groundwork of tomorrow under the ruse of fools, and will only reveal themselves when the time is ordained to them.

 

[MarBaSxx]

Long winded piece coming...

My church knows my study of choice personally(outside real school) is Anabolic Pharmacology, even the nurse there knows this. As well as my opinions on it. They dont mind, and I have never been shunned. I know steroid users from multiple churchs(big and small) and they can actually talk pretty openly. We are talking in churchs that have from 50 peeps average to 500 peeps average....you just simply dont know how common this subject is now.

That and you seem to have been so easily fooled into the "demonization" of it, seems big bro did a good job on ya.


My joke nickname has been "The BloodyScientific" in the church, I have a very science based knowledge and often would prefer a bloody end to many scenarios where I perceive wickedness or corruption to be involved. You my friend would be surprised by alot, many Christians are not pushovers anymore. Many of them know the time when the church may have to fight literally for the lives of its members could come in our later lifetime. The church I was just in Thursday, one of the people of the ministry believes in guns and was packing a pistol under his shirt since he had a CC permit, a guy about my age. Another gentleman spoke to me about cycles, and we explained the truth about steroids to a couple girls that came up to us. Read the old testament sometime, where death and blood shed was common....

Shunned? not by any means. Shunning would mean judging. Alcoholism and smoking would be more harshly argued against than some roids. Especially since they see these guys use, then be perfectly fine if not better off afterwards...Using steroids simply has not shown "evil" to anyone or created a sense of "wrongness". Its more of a science most admit they dont understand.

And with this knowledge of who I am, what I believe, and how I act I have been offered spots as a youth leader over 75 kids, been welcomed in churchs, offered to have my spot paid for for missionary trips. You sir, simply have not been in a church long enough to realize its not an organization of judgmental people, its a family. Black sheep accepted as well.

BTW its Vain, not vein.

And above all, I am very happy and proud of the fact I am always trusted. Why? Because I am transparent, hide no dark ends to my means, and pretty much will bend over backwards for anyone in need. Simply because I believe the use of a steroid is not a horrible thing should disqualify me? When more and more people are accepting it, even normal people its just not as "scary" as it was now that truths come out.

The only issue I would see with it is being a good steward of your money, and that is justifying a cycle for 250 bucks, instead of putting it towards something important. Trust me no church keeps me for my money, I am poor. One of the many reasons(health included) I have never ran a cycle yet. Then again many Christians rushed out to pick up a 600$ iphone when it came out, so I dont worry much about it...

I am a Christian, Pentecostal in fact. Which means seeing a mans busted knee heal instantly, or cancer vanish, and the likes are common place. Call religion as you wish, but what happens, happens. How I would take advantage of a church I dont know, I usually give more to a church than I received though I have been blessed a few times by members in times of need. They are my family outside my family. And as me using it to make my life meaningful...trust my my friend, if it was not for Gods laws I would have a good deal of meaning to my life, I simply restrict that meaning now to being just where as before without teaching it would have just been harsh...


Never been one to believe an alien ship flew by, a lil green dude busted a nut in the primordial soup, and over billions of years we evolved from retarded fish frogs into monkeys into humans....yeah....

Your image of Christians is absurdly stiff, more like catholics. Just without the butt raping of lil boys. :stooges:

You seem confused that I am....a human onder:

I think I lost a lil respect for your intelligence after that post...Usually I am the one making wide encompassing comments that borderline extreme views, wtf gtfo out of my spot.

didnt really read your whole post but between the big bang and now there is pretty hard data showing exactly what happened in our universe and what happened on earth for humans to exist and none of which has anything to do with religion. you would think someone as scientific as yourself wouldnt be such a fool to believe the bible and all that nonesense.

 

[Zero V]

didnt really read your whole post but between the big bang and now there is pretty hard data showing exactly what happened in our universe and what happened on earth for humans to exist and none of which has anything to do with religion. you would think someone as scientific as yourself wouldnt be such a fool to believe the bible and all that nonesense.

Do you understand the true big bang theory, or just the generalized public view of it?

And the Big Bang theory kinda supports God, the entire universe came from a single "source" hmmmm onder: They can tell through (I think this is it) a radio telescope that they BELIEVE the universe is moving away from a central source. Also science can technically accept the theory of a white hole. A white hole could be used by God when he created the universe to allow the time to start in certain spots while keeping other spots timeless. If Earth was the center of this white hole, the entire universe could be allowed to age a millions of years while earth was merely hours old. And as the event horizon closes in, God could end it in our universe and let everything go into a standard scale of time. The use of the white hole in that theory is of course in relation to the fact God controls everything and it does not have to end the way it does naturally or be of natural size.

Science, and scientific theory can be argued both ways on God my friend.


Still no proof of evolution, especially in humans. Funny how they ramble on about it yet cannot seem to find all the millions of fossils that would HAVE to exist to support it.



Now you tell me you think beliving in God is crazy, yet scientists who say "A more recently proposed view of black holes might be interpreted as shedding some light on the nature of classical white holes. Some researchers proposed that when a black hole forms, a big bang occurs at the core, which creates a new universe that expands into extra dimensions outside of the parent universe.[7][8] See also Fecund universes."

I mean, humans have never went past the moon in person, and no probe has even gotten between two galaxies even yet....

I witnessed a an explanation in a planetarium of how much humans even know about outer space, and its a joke. What humans can even see because of the blocking of certain stars/universes is so small, we cannot even count it a science in light of reality.

And as the big bang theory having "hard data"....tell me, do we have samples of the source area in space, readings from that area, core samples of anything found in the "center" ? Do we have timed experience of what its like to be adrift in that area, do we have...oh wait we have no hard data, just speculation by a creature easily consumed with its own pride and ego......

And yet science cant explain instant healing of injuries such as broken bones/torn muscles, regrowing of missing organs/body parts, instant death to cancer in the body, and many other things that I have personally witnessed and many others have in church.

Talk about science all you want, and as someone who delves into it personally I can see its limitations. Science is just a tool to understand Gods workings.

 

[MentalTwitch]

You my dear friend Zero, just stepped into my territory...you way of manipulation on the theories and such is offensive. Now i thought we agreed to disagree on ways to accept life? Lucky for you i have work and can not sit here for to long to type. Either way i'm sure this will marinate long enough for me to come back and make a few points.
I'll say though, you are correct in A FEW MINOR aspects or random theories placed that some can put a God spin on them.
People think the big bang is the end all say all to how the earth started, while it's maybe the most advanced and reearched theory we have there are a few more. For the average human to say they grasp and understand the theories, concepts and formulas is obsurd. You really have to be a phycisist or the alike to comprehend it.
As far as evolution goes, well now your more into my mind an territory. I am beyond used to hearing why this and that aspect of evolution can not exist and i will be more than happy to defend anything(or try) you throw at me within reason.
I ask these though...
Where did the grand canyon come from?
How did the earth get covered in water?(world wide flood)
I have an extensive amount of knowledge and questions to ask if the evolution issue continues. The begining of the universe is as much of a theory as your god theory, i DO feel though science has made leaps and bounds proving a begining outside of a higher power unseen.

 

[Zero V]

You my dear friend Zero, just stepped into my territory...you way of manipulation on the theories and such is offensive. Now i thought we agreed to disagree on ways to accept life? Lucky for you i have work and can not sit here for to long to type. Either way i'm sure this will marinate long enough for me to come back and make a few points.
I'll say though, you are correct in A FEW MINOR aspects or random theories placed that some can put a God spin on them.
People think the big bang is the end all say all to how the earth started, while it's maybe the most advanced and reearched theory we have there are a few more. For the average human to say they grasp and understand the theories, concepts and formulas is obsurd. You really have to be a phycisist or the alike to comprehend it.
As far as evolution goes, well now your more into my mind an territory. I am beyond used to hearing why this and that aspect of evolution can not exist and i will be more than happy to defend anything(or try) you throw at me within reason.
I ask these though...
Where did the grand canyon come from?
How did the earth get covered in water?(world wide flood)
I have an extensive amount of knowledge and questions to ask if the evolution issue continues. The begining of the universe is as much of a theory as your god theory, i DO feel though science has made leaps and bounds proving a begining outside of a higher power unseen.

I only was responding to the other fella, and on the evolution aspect there is nothing you could try on me that Biology teachers and others of the profession has not. And while I am not a physics major, I do love the study of space and its beauty and spent quite alot of time enveloped in books on it. And that was all before God came into my life like he is. I studied dinosuars, believed in evolution, etc. Then having had God do things literally and instantly to me that no one else could "set up" I realized alot. To think that this world, nay, this universe works on a single plane of existence is very narrow minded.

The human mind is rarely used to its potential, and I tell you those who do use it to its potential are not physics engineers, or the likes, but those who develop the the unknown and queer things we relate to lore and myth. Humans seek to understand what is seen, when ultimately our peril and salvation is in the unseen.

As for debating evolution, I have done it quite a few times on here, just look up on old thread if you want to go full debate lol. Done it with quite a few of the people I have alot of respect for and find intelligent, still always has the same outcome. Always has, always will...well not always.

Regardless of beliefs, mankind wont live forever. Too self destructive, and by trying to play god humans are creating more powerful and deadly threats to our own kind...

Long term pointless debate, is my territory as well my dear friend

But I am about to go do the one thing we both agree on and love, Lift my backend off. I will hit this thread up again tonight lol

 

[matthew76]

These lyrics apply here:




No one is going to win over the next when discussing religious theory. We can only tolerate the next man's opinion, or set ourselves ablaze in hatred for such.

Have a nice day!

 

[chocolatemilk]

The human experience is just too odd and eerie for me to believe there is no "intelligence" behind it's inception.

 

[MentalTwitch]

ugh, well once again i'd rather not get into to much of a debate because as you agreed it is a never ending circle.
While i'm sure you have had plenty of run ins with biology and evolution the concepts must be to great for you to grasp. Which i find odd because of the concept on life you do have.
I am almost 100% i could provide more evidence in evolution than you could comprehend. What was the last class you took on bilogy, let alone focused on evolution?
I am always confused when i hear or see people mention "theres no evidence for evolution, you can't ......" and so on. While in my head i say, what evidence do you have? Besides a book which most religions have. Considering all events could have been stories since no one was present for a large amount of the stories. It tends to end up more towards mythical feeling.
You say that the race trys to find more and more out about our universe....well of course. It's something massively interesting to explore. As far as no accomplishments or nothing to show for things...heres a few minor recent ones in the world of science...

- A scientist/Dr(please excuse me while his name a credentials slip my mind) i can ty to find out for you ASAP though. He just created a helmet, the "God Helmet" This helmet is wired to trigger a section of your brain that creates things that may not exist a sort of.."feeling" His recent studies, he was able to trigger people to think there was a presence in a room with them while they were fully blind folded. Out of body experiences were reported as well as visually seeing themselves acting out, feeling fire, air, people etc...

- The element/atom is on the verge of being discovered proving gravity is a true and driving force. Check out the Ring Theory of Gravity and thats what is will be along side of in development.

- Recently another fossil was found to put us furture back the time line, Now i HATE WITH A PASSION wikipedia but this is just to give a starting point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardipithecus

-Carbon dating is cool but have you ever heard of A40 to K40 dating?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon–argon_dating

I could add alot more but i will wait.

I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered. Wether we get into a debate or not, i'd like to know the answers. Not a bunch of jove talk, simple non-evassive words. I'll even add another and adjust one...
-How did the earth flood?(get covered in water)
-How did human composition turn to salt.
-How did the fossils get arranged chronilogicaly in the earths crust?


You've been talk to "talk"(type) well, not in the sense of correct grammer either. The sense of arrticulating words in ways you need them to be....Ex.

The human mind is rarely used to its potential, and I tell you those who do use it to its potential are not physics engineers, or the likes, but those who develop the the unknown and queer things we relate to lore and myth. Humans seek to understand what is seen, when ultimately our peril and salvation is in the unseen.

That sir, is an as$-backwards statement. It's easier to think that someone/thing created us in the blink of an eye than it is to grasp concepts of the universe, you seem to think the oppsite.

Regardless of beliefs, mankind wont live forever. Too self destructive, and by trying to play god humans are creating more powerful and deadly threats to our own kind...

While i agree we are our own worst enimies for a well maintained future civilization i do not think we are "playing god/s" Man is simply testing, investigating and interpreting what is available rather than a non-existent force or presence.

Also, i have asked before and not recieved an answer, but i'm ok with that. Just incase you may have overlooked it though...What religion/orginization do you "side/stand" with?

Again, i hope no one choses to attack Zero or I over the issues at hand. We are simply talking and picking brains i guess. Everyone can live life how they want.

 

[MentalTwitch]

The human experience is just too odd and eerie for me to believe there is no "intelligence" behind it's inception.

Do you think animals think the same way? Monkeys? They have brains that are frequently advancing. Just because they begin to understand they are a more advanced organism does not mean there is a basis for a deity. This is not an insult, but because one can not understand something or is weka minded does not meanone should give up.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Do you think animals think the same way? Monkeys? They have brains that are frequently advancing. Just because they begin to understand they are a more advanced organism does not mean there is a basis for a deity. This is not an insult, but because one can not understand something or is weka minded does not meanone should give up.

Well exactly.. you're calling us humans more advanced organisms. IMO, we are a little too advanced. That is the weird and creepy part the fact that we are "advanced". That's why I said the "human" experience, to leave every thing including other animals out.

 

[MentalTwitch]

Well exactly.. you're calling us humans more advanced organisms. IMO, we are a little too advanced. That is the weird and creepy part the fact that we are "advanced". That's why I said the "human" experience, to leave every thing including other animals out.

Ok, sooo either you're saying adma and eve are wierd because they just appeared...or, you too don't believe in evolution and the fact we came from ancestoral beings that were extremely primative.
Why leave out everything else?

This is a general statement, not direct to choc. milk, do the religious followers believe sperm is human? Where does the sould begin? I have always wondered how you gained a defining line on that.

 

[Zero V]

I dont have the time at this very second to fully respond(some things you asked, such as my faith were answered and just overlooked, but I will restate em all-which is Christian, Pentecostal). But I will later today or in the morrow. And as for me not being able to comprehend, I doubt that. Outside of physics I love science and understand it all, and have heard all the evidence you could ever spew. My last Bio class was in college, and the crazy lady spoke alot about evolution as part of what we are.

And dont think I hold anything against you either, this is simply a dance I am quite used to performing. And every once in awhile, I must admit it is not an endless cycle, for I have had successful conversions of others to the faith and they receive salvation.

 

[matthew76]

The God Delusion... read it.