mandatory flu vaccines?

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    In regards to the original topic of this thread, does anyone here sincerely think that any vaccination will ever be mandatory? Let alone a flu vaccine. I can see how if a vaccine for something like cancer or Alzheimers was discovered that it could possibly (not even probably) be made mandatory, but the flu? Get real.


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    This is one of those topics that will be debated for many years to come. There is still no significant statistical research or clinical-based evidence that supports many of the current theories that are out there (i.e. vaccinations causing autism). At this point, the benefits of many vaccines (not all of them) continue to clearly outweigh the risks, imo.

    I think there needs to be more research done in regard to environmental and food additive factors on the potentiation of disease development as well. It seems they're finally picking up on that as a possibility. Many people seem to be pointing the "bad finger" at vaccines right now with some kind of unsubstantiated proof that translates into "a means to an end" of some disease states. I'm fairly confident they'll never prove anything significant in that regard; at least in my lifetime. Immunology and Virology in general are filled with so many intangibles alone it's amazing. In essence, there are so many possibilities as to the development of certain disease processes; as well as the factors that can further potentiate their manifestation and development.

    I'm not sure why so many people always assume there is no risk to a given intervention of prevention in medicine? Much of that risk (as is with many things) is documented, as well as unknown due to the limitations we have in modern medicine, science, and technology. We all take a risk everyday when we get into our cars and drive to work. This entire issue is not only of individual health significance, but also to public/community health as well.

    When (not if) the next catastrophic pandemic virus emerges, we'll all be thankful we have the medical technology available that's capable of helping to prevent the possibility of our own extinction...

    D - As always, i respect your views here brother. It is very important to get both sides of the story to make a well informed decision, and i very much advocate that. I just personally don't buy into many of the theories that are of current note based on what they have to support it. There are too many possibilities to debunk at this point to say anything for certain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam23294 View Post
    In regards to the original topic of this thread, does anyone here sincerely think that any vaccination will ever be mandatory? Let alone a flu vaccine. I can see how if a vaccine for something like cancer or Alzheimers was discovered that it could possibly (not even probably) be made mandatory, but the flu? Get real.

    It's very much a real possibility. In all honesty, i don't see it happening (at least anytime soon), but if something were to come along that was a serious threat to public/national health, it very well could become reality.

    Making the yearly influenza vaccine mandatory is ridiculous at this point, but if the next "1918 spanish influenza" were to come along (and it will one day), it will most definitely become a different story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    ... D - As always, i respect your views here brother. It is very important to get both sides of the story to make a well informed decision, and i very much advocate that. I just personally don't buy into many of the theories that are of current note based on what they have to support it. There are too many possibilities to debunk at this point to say anything for certain.
    Same here bro, I don't buy it either. The little hamster is always running in my head though, lol, thinking about all the things that he's not supposed to talk about.

    As you say though, time will tell.
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    Yep, still on the fence about childhood vaccines. Seems like every time we go to the pediatrician there's several new vaccines being offered. We stick only to the quasi-mandatory ones.

    I disagree with Dr. D's statement about the US having the highest rate of autism. It's actually Scotland that has the highest, somewhere on the order of 1 in 83 births. Currently, I go with the theory that insufficient Vitamin D is the major factor in autism and we see higher autism and MS rates in northern latitudes. Vit D is one of the key modulators of the immune system so being deficient may open one up to the risks mentioned in Dr. D's article.

    Coupled with chronic Vit D deficiency, IMO chronic omega 3 deficiencies play a major role in developmental disabilities in children and even adults. I think this is why the populace seems to be getting dumber by the hour, but that's just my conspiracy theory

    Needless to say, my 2 year old gets lots of sunshine and cod liver oil everyday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Yep, still on the fence about childhood vaccines. Seems like every time we go to the pediatrician there's several new vaccines being offered. We stick only to the quasi-mandatory ones.

    I disagree with Dr. D's statement about the US having the highest rate of autism. It's actually Scotland that has the highest, somewhere on the order of 1 in 83 births. Currently, I go with the theory that insufficient Vitamin D is the major factor in autism and we see higher autism and MS rates in northern latitudes. Vit D is one of the key modulators of the immune system so being deficient may open one up to the risks mentioned in Dr. D's article.

    Coupled with chronic Vit D deficiency, IMO chronic omega 3 deficiencies play a major role in developmental disabilities in children and even adults. I think this is why the populace seems to be getting dumber by the hour, but that's just my conspiracy theory

    Needless to say, my 2 year old gets lots of sunshine and cod liver oil everyday.
    I'm a huge advocate of Vitamin D myself. The role it plays in immune system functioning/regulation alone is very commendable (especially in terms of auto-immunity based diseases), but there is still so much they don't understand. The benefits they're finding that Vitamin D holds in terms of gene expression alone within the body should compel the push of more extensive and widespread clinical-based research of disease prevention.

    The current guidelines for daily Vitamin D intake are a joke; especially to those that live in more seasonal northern lattitudes. The compiled geographic data that demonstrates the prevelance of certain auto-immune based diseases is very interesting.

    Here is a good read along these lines:

    http://journals.cambridge.org/downlo...9e7b504bdd5319

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    It's not too hard to follow the inevitable thought process...

    1) Government mandated..err, optioned heallth insurance
    2) It's now in the government's fiscal self-interest that you do NOTHING that could remotely be detrimental to your health (no more freedom of diet, supplements) since they can claim financial right to your habits.
    3) in that progression, mandatory vaccination can then be justified as in the governments (and of course YOUR best interest, comrade) interest.
    4) Disobedience will be grounds for imprisonment/fines.
    5) do as you're told...or else.

    Amazing how this keeps going back to BigPharma.
    Hi DSade can you care to explain your point ?
    Here in Canada government is way more implicated in health care than what Obama even plan for. And there's no such catastrophic scenario as you predict.

    Plus from what I read Obama plan is mainly to create a government competitor to put pressure for the price to go down. Right now there's no real competition.

    Freedoom of choice is great and you'll probably still have a lot after the plan. Yet does someone have freedom when he can't afford an assurance or does not have a job that paid for it ?

    You may not like taxes, but is the hidden cost of health care that company passes on customer of pretty every product much better ? Health care did play a big role in GM going out of the window.

    At least if it's regulated the cost of health care should go down. Right now USA have one of the less efficient per dollar health care in the world, is that really something to be proud of ?

    Can you please provide me reading material that support your position because so far everything that I have read point to the fact that Obama health care is in the good direction but too little too late...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    How so? Government stepping into free enterprise, printing money at will... which domino is not ready to fall?
    I'm not sure if it's the right quote but from my understanding USA government is not putting free money in the economy. At lot of the money went into grantee fund in order for the existing money to move freely enough for the economy to run. What you have to understand is that a lot of company have to pay their worker every two week even if they get paid for the end product only very latter. So bank lending have a real effect on the normal economy.

    Also it's really more number money than anything else. A lot of that money have been loaned in complicated system that make it less desirable to just put it in the economy. That money is also schedule to be removed from the economy by buying it back with very long term very low interest bond or other mechanism - a few of them which been approved by the congress recently.

    Yes printing money make the US dollar less desirable and lower it's value. However USA have an importing economy balance that mean it buy more than it sell to other country. In that case a low us dollar make big competitive advantage for local companies... That is a big headache for Canada who try to keep it's dollar low to stay concurrent with USA.

    You also have to keep in mind that USA is as for now the international currency of choice so everything adapt to us dollar. This being said some country are not happy with that China being the first.

    Lastly the US debt is mainly to other US citizen or institution so it's self contained and not that be with that respect. Interest on debt stay in the US economy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    The current guidelines for daily Vitamin D intake are a joke; especially to those that live in more seasonal northern lattitudes. The compiled geographic data that demonstrates the prevelance of certain auto-immune based diseases is very interesting.
    Interesting about vitamin D ...
    Just wanted to ask what's your view on vitamin D from sun vs oral route...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pho3NiX View Post
    Interesting about vitamin D ...
    Just wanted to ask what's your view on vitamin D from sun vs oral route...
    You might get rickets without it!

    Seriously though, it has about the same utility as Reishi mushrooms, which contain provitamin D2, same immune principle.
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