mandatory flu vaccines?
- 07-16-2009, 05:19 PM
- 07-16-2009, 05:22 PM
07-16-2009, 05:24 PM
07-16-2009, 05:24 PM
07-16-2009, 05:29 PM
1) Government mandated..err, optioned heallth insurance
2) It's now in the government's fiscal self-interest that you do NOTHING that could remotely be detrimental to your health (no more freedom of diet, supplements) since they can claim financial right to your habits.
3) in that progression, mandatory vaccination can then be justified as in the governments (and of course YOUR best interest, comrade) interest.
4) Disobedience will be grounds for imprisonment/fines.
5) do as you're told...or else.
Amazing how this keeps going back to BigPharma.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
07-16-2009, 06:19 PM
The entire viral make-up, pathophysiology and mode of transmission STRONGLY suggest otherwise. Comparing smallpox to HIV is like comparing apples and oranges (especially in terms of being used as a biological weapon). Smallpox is highly contagious via droplet transmission or contact with infectious material. It could kill a given person in roughly a week; HIV is stricktly of blood born pathogen transmission. Even without anti-retroviral treatment, it can take up to 15 years for HIV to destroy your immune system (when certain criteria is met you're then diagnosed with AIDS) to the point where you'll eventually perish due to secondary opportunistic infections.
In other words, there is nothing about the HIV virus that makes it an effective or useful biological weapon.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
07-16-2009, 06:21 PM
07-16-2009, 06:39 PM
My standpoint on the Flu Vaccine is this:
Does everyone need it every year? No
Should certain people at least consider it (i.e. The elderly and healthcare workers)? Yes
Depending on who you talk to, you'll hear a different story and recommendation about yearly influenza vaccination. In my years of experience working in emergency medicine, i've received the flu vaccine every year for the last 9 years; i've NEVER become sick. I can't tell you how many people i've been exposed to as well that were either influenza A or B positive along the way during that time period. I don't think everyone needs it, but for some, it's definitely beneficial to take.
Vaccines save lives. There is no debating that. Are there risks? Sure - there are risks with just about EVERYTHING in life. The benefits of most childhood vaccines without-a-doubt outweigh the risks in every regard. It's not only a matter of individual protection, but also to the general public as well.
The only vaccine i'm still not 100% on-board with is Varicella (chicken pox). Now, i do believe though that if you haven't encountered it by the time you're a young adult, then it most certainly is warranted. Varicella disease in an adult is not only more devastating in symptomatology, but also the mortality rate.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
07-16-2009, 06:43 PM
07-16-2009, 10:44 PM
07-17-2009, 12:22 AM
The only time I took the shot was when I hit Parris Island.
And guess what???
I got sick.
They can try to mandate the flu shot, and if they do I wish them the best of luck if they think they stand a chance in hell at sticking me.
07-17-2009, 03:01 PM
07-17-2009, 03:05 PM
07-17-2009, 03:22 PM
07-17-2009, 03:32 PM
Ah, here we go.
AdamsRole of Immunizations in the Recent Decline in Childhood Mortality and the Changes in the Female/Male Mortality Ratio in Rural Senegal
A. Desgrées du Loû1, G. Pison1, and P. Aaby2
1Laboratoire d'Anthropologie Biologique (UMR 152 du CNRS), Museum National d'Histoire Naturelle, Musée de I'Homme Paris, France.
2Epidemiology Research Unit, Danish Epidemiology Science Center, Statens Seruminstftut Copenhagen, Denmark.
Reprint requests to Dr. G. Pison, Laboratoire d'Anthropologie Biologique (UMR 152 du CNRS), Museum National d'Histoire Naturelle, Musee de I'Homme, 17 place du Trocadero, 75116 Paris, France.
In early 1987, immunizations were introduced to an isolated area of eastern Senegal where there had previously been no regular immunizations. Since immunizations were the only change introduced in the area during this period, this allowed the authors to study the impact of immunizations on mortality in different age groups and the possible interaction with sex differences in mortality. They compared mortality rates for the 6 years before and the 6 years after the introduction of immunization. Neonatal mortality declined 31% (95% confidence interval (Cl) 17 to 43); between 1 and 8 months of age, the reduction was 20% (95% Cl -2 to 37); and between 9 and 59 months of age, mortality declined 48% (95% Cl 39 to 56). Excluding acute measles deaths, the reduction was 16% (95% Cl –8 to 35) between 1 and 8 months of age and 32% (95% Cl 20 to 43) between 9 and 59 months of age. The decline was stronger in villages that maintained high coverage after the initial national campaign, whereas mortality increased again in the villages where the coverage declined. Since the reduction in mortality was most marked after 9 months of age, measles immunization is likely to have been the most important vaccination. Both female and male mortality declined but not equally quickly. The reduction in mortality in the neonatal period was significantly greater in males than in females, resulting in an increase in the female/male mortality ratio from 0.64 (95% Cl 0.50 to 0.83) to 0.96 (95% Cl 0.71 to 1.30), p = 0.04. After 9 months of age, the reduction in mortality was somewhat greater in females than in males, resulting in a decrease in the female/male mortality ratio from 1.04 (95% Cl 0.85 to 1.28) to 0.79 (95% Cl 0.62 to 1.02), p = 0.10. Am J Epidemiol 1995;142:643–52.
The Historic PES Legend
07-17-2009, 03:46 PM
Just speaking for myself, I'm starting to realize that I must be more careful when endorsing or fostering absolutes. Consider that we are all programed to assume certain things (preconceptions) right from birth. It's called parental scripting. Our parents were scripted too, and social scripting demonstrates this obviously in the change of morals/mores from 1 generation to the next. Whether good or bad, intentional or unintentional is irrelevant, that's a whole other issue that revolves around various opinions. The truth of it is all that really counts beyond opinion or preference, no matter what it turns out to be. Sometimes I have taken up for a cause, only to find out later that I were very, very in error. The negative ripple is impossible to erase.
Study this issue in more depth, my friend. I believe you may discover that you have changed your mind with additional research.
07-17-2009, 03:57 PM
Opening your children up to disease that has been all but eradicated is selfish in my eyes. A 100% preventable disease can lead to death.
The Historic PES Legend
07-17-2009, 04:16 PM
If you've got kids and you really give a damn about them, dig up the numbers that aren't readily paraded in the press and educate yourself with a fat dose of statistical reality. That's all I'm sayin' bro.
Check it out:
07-17-2009, 04:25 PM
That MMR Causes Autism
Two studies have been cited by those claiming that the MMR vaccine
causes autism. This section summarizes those studies and lists their critical
The first Wakefield paper
In 1998, Andrew Wakefield and colleagues published a paper in The
Lancet titled “Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis,
and pervasive developmental disorder in children.”(1) Wakefield’s hypothesis
was that the MMR vaccine causes a series of events that include
intestinal inflammation, loss of intestinal barrier function, entrance into
the bloodstream of encephalopathic proteins, and consequent development
of autism. In support of his hypothesis, Dr. Wakefield described 12
children with neurodevelopmental delay (8 with autism). All of these
children had gastrointestinal complaints and developed autism within 1
month of receiving MMR.
About 90% of children in England received MMR at the time this
paper was written. Because MMR is administered at a time when
many children are diagnosed with autism, it would be expected that
most children with autism would have received an MMR vaccine, and
that many would have received the vaccine recently. The observation
that some children with autism recently received MMR is, therefore,
expected. However, determination of whether MMR causes autism is
best made by studying the incidence of autism in both vaccinated and
unvaccinated children. This wasn’t done.
Although the authors claim that autism is a consequence of gastrointestinal
inflammation, gastrointestinal symptoms were observed after, not
before, symptoms of autism in all eight cases.
The second Wakefield paper
In 2002, Wakefield and coworkers published a second paper examining
the relationship between measles virus and autism.(2)
The authors tested intestinal biopsy samples for the presence of measles
virus genome from children with and without autism. Measles virus
genome was detected by reverse-transcriptase polymerase chain reaction
(RT-PCR) and in situ hybridization. Seventy-five of 90 children with
autism were found to have measles virus genome in intestinal biopsy
tissue as compared with only 5 of 70 control patients. On its surface, this
was a concerning result. However, this paper was also critically flawed.
• Measles vaccine virus is live and attenuated. After inoculation, the
vaccine virus probably replicates 15-20 times. Measles vaccine virus
is likely to be taken up by specific cells responsible for virus uptake
and presentation to the immune system (termed antigen-presenting
cells or APCs). Macro****es, B cells, and dendritic cells (DC) are
different types of APCs. Because all APCs are mobile, and can travel
throughout the body (including the intestine), it is plausible that a child
immunized with MMR would have measles virus genome detected in
intestinal tissues using a very sensitive assay (such as RT-PCR). To determine
if MMR is associated with autism one must determine if the
finding is specific for children with autism. Therefore, children with
or without autism must be identical in two ways. First, children with
or without autism must be matched for immunization status (i.e., receipt
of the MMR vaccine).
Second, children must be matched for the length of time between receipt
of MMR vaccine and collection of the biopsy specimen. Although
this information was clearly available to the investigators and
critical to their hypothesis, it was specifically omitted from the paper.
• Because natural measles virus is still circulating in England, it would
have been important to determine whether the measles virus genome
detected in these samples was natural measles virus or vaccine virus.
Although primers are available to distinguish these two types of virus,
the authors chose not to use them.
• RT-PCR is a very sensitive assay. Laboratories that work with natural
measles virus (such as the lab where these studies were performed)
are at high risk of getting false positive results. No mention is made
in the paper as to how this problem was avoided.
• As is true for all laboratory studies, the person who is performing the
test should not know whether the sample is obtained from a case or a
control (blinding). Because no statement is made in the method section,
it is unclear that blinding of samples occurred.
The Historic PES Legend
07-17-2009, 04:53 PM
What They Don’t Tell You About Vaccination Dangers Can Kill You or Ruin Your Life
By Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.
After 30 years of intensive research, much has been learned about how brain cells work and what goes wrong when disease arises. One of the great enigmas has been the connection between vaccinations and certain brain disorders such as:
* Gulf War Syndrome
More common neurodegenerative diseases (Parkinson’s disease, Alzheimer’s dementia and ALS)
As we learned more and more about how brain cells should work, we discovered that often normal processes, such as metabolism, could result in the accumulation of powerful chemical byproducts, called free radicals, that have the capacity to destroy these cells.
Free radicals, basically, are very reactive particles that bounce all around the cell damaging everything they touch. Most originate during the process of metabolism but can also arise from toxin exposure, irradiation and toxic metals. Because they are so destructive, cells have a network of defenses designed to neutralize them. This antioxidant network is composed of numerous components that include vitamins, minerals and special chemicals called thiols (glutathione and alpha-lipoic acid).
What Causes the Free Radicals
The idea that free radicals play a major role in all of the conditions listed above is now proven--the big question is why are so many free radicals being generated? In the case of autism, ADD and ADHD many came to support the idea that mercury derived from vaccines was the source of the radicals. And it was known that mercury could cause free radicals to be generated in large numbers within the brain. Evidence connecting mercury to the autism spectrum disorders, neurodegeneration and the Gulf War Syndrome is strong, but not exclusive.
Interestingly, all of these diseases also share another common event--over activation of a portion of the immune system.
It is important to appreciate that only a certain part of the immune system is overactive, because other parts, such as cellular immunity, are actually diminished. In some instances, as with the childhood disorders, the problem is congenital and in others it develops as a result of many factors such as aging, toxin exposure, poor nutrition and excessive vaccination itself. Mercury can impair immune function as well.
How Vaccines are Made
Basically, vaccines contain either killed viruses or bacteria, germ components, toxic extracts or live organisms that have been made less virulent--a process called attenuation. To stimulate an enhanced immune reaction against these organisms, manufacturers added powerful immune-stimulating substances such as squalene, aluminum, lipopolysacchride, etc. These are called immune adjuvants.
The process of vaccination usually required repeated injections of the vaccine over a set period of time. The combination of adjuvants plus the intended organism triggers an immune response by the body, similar to that occurring with natural infections, except for one major difference. Almost none of these diseases enter the body by injection. Most enter by way of the mucous membranes of the nose, mouth, pulmonary passages or GI tract. For example, polio is known to enter via the GI tract. The membranes lining these passages contain a different immune system than activated by direct injection. This system is called the IgA immune system.
It is the first line of defense and helps reduce the need for intense activation of the body’s immune system. Often, the IgA system can completely head off an attack. The point being that injecting organisms to induce immunity is abnormal.
Because more and more reports are appearing citing vaccine failure, their manufacturers’ answer is to make the vaccines more potent. They do this by making the immune adjuvants more powerful or adding more of them. The problem with this approach is that in the very young, the nutritionally deficient and the aged, over-stimulating the immune system can have an opposite effect--it can paralyze the immune system.
This is especially prevalent with nutritional deficiency.
An early attempt to vaccinate Africans met with disaster when it was discovered that many were dying following vaccination. The problem was traced to widespread vitamin A deficiency among the tribes. Once the malnutrition was corrected, death rates fell precipitously.
Another problem we see with modern vaccines is that the immune stimulation continues over a prolonged period of time.
This is because of the immune adjuvants. They remain in the tissues, constantly stimulating immune-activating cells. With most natural infections the immune activation occurs rapidly, and once the infection is under control, it drops precipitously. This, as we shall see, is to prevent excessive damage to normal cells in the body.
What Happens to the Brain With Vaccination?
It seems the brain is always neglected when pharmacologists consider side effects of various drugs. The same is true for vaccinations. For a long time no one considered the effect of repeated vaccinations on the brain.
This was based on a mistaken conclusion that the brain was protected from immune activation by its special protective gateway called the blood-brain barrier. More recent studies have shown that immune cells can enter the brain directly, and more importantly, the brain’s own special immune system can be activated by vaccination.
You see, the brain has a special immune system that operates through a unique type of cell called a microglia.
These tiny cells are scattered throughout the brain, lying dormant waiting to be activated. In fact, they are activated by many stimuli and are quite easy to activate. For our discussion, activation of the body’s immune system by vaccination is a most important stimuli for activation of brain microglia.
Numerous studies have shown that when the body’s immune system is activated, the brain’s immune cells are likewise activated. This occurs by several pathways, not important to this discussion. The more powerfully the body’s immune system is stimulated the more intense is the brain’s reaction. Prolonged activation of the body’s immune system likewise produces prolonged activation of the brain’s immune system.
Therein lies the danger of our present vaccine policy.
The American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Academy of Family Practice have both endorsed a growing list of vaccines for children, even newborns, as well as yearly flu shots for both children and adults. Children are receiving as many as 22 inoculations before attending school.
What Happens When the Brain’s Immune System is Activated?
The brain’s immune system cells, once activated, begin to move about the nervous system, secreting numerous immune chemicals (called cytokines and chemokines) and pouring out an enormous amount of free radicals in an effort to kill invading organisms. The problem is--there are no invading organisms. It has been tricked by the vaccine into believing there are.
Unlike the body’s immune system, the microglia also secrete two other chemicals that are very destructive of brain cells and their connecting processes. These chemicals, glutamate and quinolinic acid, are called excitotoxins. They also dramatically increase free radical generation in the brain. Studies of patients have shown that levels of these two excitotoxins can rise to very dangerous levels in the brain following viral and bacterial infections of the brain. High quinolinic acid levels in the brain are thought to be the cause of the dementia seen with HIV infection.
The problem with our present vaccine policy is that so many vaccines are being given so close together and over such a long period that the brain’s immune system is constantly activated. This has been shown experimentally in numerous studies. This means that the brain will be exposed to large amounts of the excitotoxins as well as the immune cytokines over the same period.
Studies on all of these disorders, even in autism, have shown high levels of immune cytokines and excitotoxins in the nervous system. These destructive chemicals, as well as the free radicals they generate, are diffused throughout the nervous system doing damage, a process called bystander injury. It’s sort of like throwing a bomb in a crowd.
Not only will some be killed directly by the blast but those far out into the radius of the explosion will be killed by shrapnel.
Normally, the brain’s immune system, like the body’s, activates quickly and then promptly shuts off to minimize the bystander damage. Vaccination won’t let the microglia shut down. In the developing brain, this can lead to language problems, behavioral dysfunction and even dementia.
In the adult, it can lead to the Gulf War Syndrome or one of the more common neurodegenerative diseases, such as Parkinson’s disease, Alzheimer’s dementia or Lou Gehrig’s disease (ALS).
A recent study by the world-renowned immunologist Dr. H. Hugh Fudenberg found that adults vaccinated yearly for five years in a row with the flu vaccine had a 10-fold increased risk of developing Alzheimer’s disease. He attributes this to the mercury and aluminum in the vaccine. Interestingly, both of these metals have been shown to activate microglia and increase excitotoxicity in the brain.
Direct Effect of the Cytokines
Various cytokines have been used to treat cancer patients as well as other common diseases.
Studies of the effects of these cytokines on brain function reveal some very close parallels to the diseases we have been discussing. For a more in-depth study of these effects I suggest you read my article appearing in the Journal of the American Nutriceutical Association (volume 6 [fall], Number 4, 2003, pp 21-35) and in the summer issue 2004 of the Journal of the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons.
One can see:
* Language difficulties
* Memory problems
* Low-grade fevers
* Mood alterations
* Difficulty concentrating
* A host of other behavioral problems
In the child, brain immune over-activation has been shown to be particularly damaging to the amygdala and other limbic structures of the brain. This can lead to unusual syndromes such as the loss of "theory of mind" and " Alice in Wonderland syndrome." It has also been shown to damage the executive functions of the frontal lobes.
In essence, what is lost is that which makes us social human beings, able to function in a complex world of ideas and interactions.
Several studies have indeed shown elevated levels of cytokines in autistic children. It is also interesting to note that these cytokines, especially interleukin-1ß and tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-a) dramatically increase the damage produced by excitotoxins. So, what we see is a viscous cycle of immune activation, excitotoxin and cytokine excretion, and free radical production. The latter starts the cycle all over again.
The Role of Autoimmunity and Viral Persistence
Studies in autistic children have shown that a state of immune attack on the brain is occurring. Similar findings are seen with neurodegenerative diseases and the Gulf War Syndrome. It must be appreciated that this autoimmunity was triggered by the vaccinations and by organisms contaminating the vaccinations. Once started, the immune reaction cannot stop, thus triggering all the destructive reactions I have discussed.
Dr. Garth Nicolson has shown a direct connection between mycoplasma contamination of vaccines and the 200 percent increased incidence of ALS in Gulf War veterans. The disorder is produced by the same mechanism described above.
Another, even more common, problem is the use of live viruses in vaccines. The reason live viruses can be used is that they are weakened by passing them through a series of cultures--a process called attenuation. These attenuated, non-disease-causing viruses are then injected in hopes of stimulating the body to produce an immune attack.
The problem with this idea is two-fold.
First, we now know that in far too many cases these viruses escape the immune system and take up residence in the body--for a lifetime. A recent autopsy study of elderly individuals found that 20 percent of the brains contained live measles viruses and 45 percent of the other organs contained live measles viruses. Similar findings have been described in autistic children and the measles virus is identical genetically to the one used in the vaccine.
The second problem is that most of these viruses were found to be highly mutated. In fact, different mutations were found among viruses in various organs in the same individual.
This has been a secret kept from the public.
These attenuated viruses undergo mutation brought on by the presence of free radicals in the tissues and organs and they can mutate into virulent, disease-causing organisms. Recent studies have confirmed this frightening finding. In fact, a large percentage of Alzheimer’s disease patients have live viruses in their brain as compared to normal individuals.
Once these live viruses are injected, they cannot be removed. Because the viruses stay in the body, they will be under constant free radical exposure, which can increase during times of stress, illness, exercise and with aging. It is the free radicals that cause the virus to mutate.
In essence, the viruses can exist in the brain, or any organ, either silently and slowly producing destruction of the brain or spinal cord or producing sudden disease once the virus mutates to a highly lethal form.
We have seen that the policy of giving numerous vaccinations to individuals, especially infants and small children, is shear idiocy.
A considerable number of studies have shown conclusively that such a practice can lead to severe injury to the brain by numerous mechanisms. Because the child’s brain is undergoing a period of rapid growth from the third trimester of pregnancy until age 2 years, his or her brain is at considerable risk from this insane policy.
We have also seen that live-virus vaccines and contaminated vaccines hold a special risk in that the viruses tend to persist in a substantial number of individuals and that free radicals can cause the latent viruses to transform by genetic mutation into disease-causing organisms later in life.
It is vital that anyone scheduled for vaccination follow a schedule that allows no more than one vaccine every six months, allowing the immune system time to recover.
Live-virus vaccines should be avoided.
This was recently illustrated by the switch from the live polio vaccine to the killed virus. All cases of polio after the introduction of the vaccine, in the developed world, came from the vaccine itself. This was known from the beginning.
Finally, it is vital that anyone undergoing vaccination should start nutritional supplementation and adhere to a healthy diet before vaccination occurs. Vaccine complications are far fewer in individuals with good nutrition.
07-17-2009, 11:55 PM
In regards to the original topic of this thread, does anyone here sincerely think that any vaccination will ever be mandatory? Let alone a flu vaccine. I can see how if a vaccine for something like cancer or Alzheimers was discovered that it could possibly (not even probably) be made mandatory, but the flu? Get real.
07-18-2009, 01:08 AM
This is one of those topics that will be debated for many years to come. There is still no significant statistical research or clinical-based evidence that supports many of the current theories that are out there (i.e. vaccinations causing autism). At this point, the benefits of many vaccines (not all of them) continue to clearly outweigh the risks, imo.
I think there needs to be more research done in regard to environmental and food additive factors on the potentiation of disease development as well. It seems they're finally picking up on that as a possibility. Many people seem to be pointing the "bad finger" at vaccines right now with some kind of unsubstantiated proof that translates into "a means to an end" of some disease states. I'm fairly confident they'll never prove anything significant in that regard; at least in my lifetime. Immunology and Virology in general are filled with so many intangibles alone it's amazing. In essence, there are so many possibilities as to the development of certain disease processes; as well as the factors that can further potentiate their manifestation and development.
I'm not sure why so many people always assume there is no risk to a given intervention of prevention in medicine? Much of that risk (as is with many things) is documented, as well as unknown due to the limitations we have in modern medicine, science, and technology. We all take a risk everyday when we get into our cars and drive to work. This entire issue is not only of individual health significance, but also to public/community health as well.
When (not if) the next catastrophic pandemic virus emerges, we'll all be thankful we have the medical technology available that's capable of helping to prevent the possibility of our own extinction...
D - As always, i respect your views here brother. It is very important to get both sides of the story to make a well informed decision, and i very much advocate that. I just personally don't buy into many of the theories that are of current note based on what they have to support it. There are too many possibilities to debunk at this point to say anything for certain.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
07-18-2009, 01:18 AM
Making the yearly influenza vaccine mandatory is ridiculous at this point, but if the next "1918 spanish influenza" were to come along (and it will one day), it will most definitely become a different story.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
07-18-2009, 11:33 AM
07-18-2009, 05:59 PM
Yep, still on the fence about childhood vaccines. Seems like every time we go to the pediatrician there's several new vaccines being offered. We stick only to the quasi-mandatory ones.
I disagree with Dr. D's statement about the US having the highest rate of autism. It's actually Scotland that has the highest, somewhere on the order of 1 in 83 births. Currently, I go with the theory that insufficient Vitamin D is the major factor in autism and we see higher autism and MS rates in northern latitudes. Vit D is one of the key modulators of the immune system so being deficient may open one up to the risks mentioned in Dr. D's article.
Coupled with chronic Vit D deficiency, IMO chronic omega 3 deficiencies play a major role in developmental disabilities in children and even adults. I think this is why the populace seems to be getting dumber by the hour, but that's just my conspiracy theory
Needless to say, my 2 year old gets lots of sunshine and cod liver oil everyday.
07-18-2009, 06:41 PM
The current guidelines for daily Vitamin D intake are a joke; especially to those that live in more seasonal northern lattitudes. The compiled geographic data that demonstrates the prevelance of certain auto-immune based diseases is very interesting.
Here is a good read along these lines:
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
07-25-2009, 01:13 PM
Here in Canada government is way more implicated in health care than what Obama even plan for. And there's no such catastrophic scenario as you predict.
Plus from what I read Obama plan is mainly to create a government competitor to put pressure for the price to go down. Right now there's no real competition.
Freedoom of choice is great and you'll probably still have a lot after the plan. Yet does someone have freedom when he can't afford an assurance or does not have a job that paid for it ?
You may not like taxes, but is the hidden cost of health care that company passes on customer of pretty every product much better ? Health care did play a big role in GM going out of the window.
At least if it's regulated the cost of health care should go down. Right now USA have one of the less efficient per dollar health care in the world, is that really something to be proud of ?
Can you please provide me reading material that support your position because so far everything that I have read point to the fact that Obama health care is in the good direction but too little too late...
07-25-2009, 01:42 PM
Also it's really more number money than anything else. A lot of that money have been loaned in complicated system that make it less desirable to just put it in the economy. That money is also schedule to be removed from the economy by buying it back with very long term very low interest bond or other mechanism - a few of them which been approved by the congress recently.
Yes printing money make the US dollar less desirable and lower it's value. However USA have an importing economy balance that mean it buy more than it sell to other country. In that case a low us dollar make big competitive advantage for local companies... That is a big headache for Canada who try to keep it's dollar low to stay concurrent with USA.
You also have to keep in mind that USA is as for now the international currency of choice so everything adapt to us dollar. This being said some country are not happy with that China being the first.
Lastly the US debt is mainly to other US citizen or institution so it's self contained and not that be with that respect. Interest on debt stay in the US economy.
07-25-2009, 01:51 PM
07-29-2009, 01:03 AM
Similar Forum Threads
- By airvine91 in forum Male Anti-Aging MedicineReplies: 3Last Post: 03-21-2015, 10:28 PM
- By keithdolby in forum Male Anti-Aging MedicineReplies: 4Last Post: 11-09-2009, 08:19 PM
- By neoborn in forum General ChatReplies: 0Last Post: 03-20-2009, 02:20 AM
- By ex_banana-eater in forum General ChatReplies: 2Last Post: 06-24-2003, 07:29 AM
- By Dwight Schrute in forum Weight LossReplies: 12Last Post: 01-29-2003, 05:35 PM