Terrorism anyone?

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  1. How do I address this topic?  I have a strong thought process when dealing with issues of international doctrine and military intervention.  I may be a bit biased...

    What do I think?  There is a concept most in the medical community are familiar with that is called triage (French for sort) that mandates the most help for those that will benefit and sacrificing the few to have more warm bodies at the end.  In the case of Saddam Hussein, the soldiers that will fall shall save others in the future.  Does anyone else remember that he gasses his own people?  This type of savage leadership shows blatant disregard for human value and should be acted on by not only the US but also the international community.  Is he a terrorist?  Only to his own people...

    So, is Bush a domestic terrorist?  I believe the intent of his new doctrines, cabinets, bureaus, and approval of snooping techniques (to be inclusive of electronic monitoring) are honorable but the implementation will no doubt be interpreted very liberally.  This may lead to a deprivation of freedoms we took for granted in the past but will provide a greater shield from future attacks.  Where is the middle ground between providing a safe way of life and depriving the quality of that life that is so characteristic of American ideology?  This will be debated greatly by the leaders of this nation in the coming years so it will be intersting to see where the hammer falls.

    The difference between the citizens of this country being raped, homeless, murdered, starved, and generally violated and Iraq is that over here our government is actually trying to STOP it and NOT sanction or perpetrate it.

    For the record, an anti-government view is acceptable as a right to individual opinion...this is the idea that the nation was founded on.  I do not support this view as I have fought for that flag that so many take for granted and know the luxuries that we enjoy here.

    No doubt YJ's post was meant to provoke thought and provide an alternative view to mainstream thinking.  The mind is like a book...it can only be used when it is open.  Think critically of this post and see the side of those affected by US international doctrine.

    Chemo


  2. Originally posted by YellowJacket



    Im anti-formal government, no matter who's it is.
    With no government, and no laws, someone will eventually come along, kill you, take your possessions, and take the women of your family as their own.

    Government and order would be looking pretty good right about then. You sure anarchy is what you really want?
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  3. Originally posted by SirSavageX


    What do you expect? No problems at all? Perfection? Not going to happen. There are always going to be those unfortunate people who are killed, raped, etc., and there's nothing you can do to completely prevent or stop that. These are the problems we face in a society where freedom is placed very highly, because freedom and order are inherently opposed to one another. There are always going to be the idiots out there. Some sort of balance has to be aimed for. Again, no way to be perfect.


    I just feel that you should take care of your own before you attempt to straigthen out the world. And you might say he is taking care of his own by doing whatever he's *talking* about doing. No. Its in his best interest. He's pissed off at the world because they got us. Yep, for once we DIDNT win. We were assaulted on our playing field. Another country came in, killed thousands of people and he cant handle it. Why not? Got me, hell this country seems to go in to some other country and invade it every year. So he's looking for a stress reliever because this all happened ON HIS watch and that makes him weak. When your own are thriving and successful, then worry about the rest of the country and aiding them and feeding them and keeping their country safe, until them mind your own business and concentrate on what you have to do to keep your job.

    As for sticking our nose where it doesn't belong, our nose belongs anywhere where our national interests are threatened, whether it be a safety issue of our citizens, economical, or what have you.


    Face it, our interests arent being threatened, this isnt about our interests, this is aobut Bush's self-gratification. Bin Laden killed Americans, fine go kill him. Dont take it out on every country that opposes. We're shutting down North Korea's nuke plants.....might threaten the world, yet we are allowed to brew and create them? Ha, what kind of ****ing country is this? Who are we? Why can be do things and other country's can? We like being the big dog huh? Letting everyother country know we're the **** and they're petty no ones. Bush's time as well as this country's is coming very soon....


    Ignore a problem? What good does that do? Eventually, it will spread to you, and oftentimes, it is too late, by that point, to do anything about it.


    Ignoring problems you have nothing to do with keeps your focus where it belongs. Doing a job the American people elected you to do (although he wasnt elected, he was given the job).

    I'm paraphrasing, but all that is necessary for the forces of evil to win, is for enough good men to do nothing. Remember that.


    Good men do nothing. Ignorant men participate.



    First, if they were civilians, it was not intentional. Come on, man, if he was really a terrorist and wanted to harm others he'd break out the nukes, or other serious weapons.


    Oh innocent people were killed... oh well **** it, we'll call in an accident. Maybe North Korea feels threatened so they're pulling out their nukes? Oh wait, they cant, we're shutting them down.

    Terrorism is a violent means to intimidate a country into doing something that you want. That is different than war. Certainly, civilians die in war, and there's nothing you can do to completely prevent that. It is very unfortunate. However, some things must be done.


    Then we're terroists because we threatened force against N. Korea if they didnt shut down there potential products of weapons of mass destructions. And if they didnt, you better believe we'd bomb them, so thats terrorism my friend. Restricting another country's ability to defend themselves, thats also very cowardly.


    Assuming there is a war, it is HIGHLY unlikely that many of our troops will be killed. Our soldiers are just too highly trained, and our technology is just too advanced.


    If [b] Anyone [b/] dies, thats 1 too many for a cause we have nothing to do with. I hear everyday about our highly trained military crashing a helicopter and killing 4 or 5 people.

    On the other side, it is also highly unlikely that many of the Iraqis will be killed. The majority of his armed forces are likely to surrender in the face of a superior enemy, and due to careful planning, civilian casualties will also be cut down a great deal.
    Bush doesnt give a **** about the commoner's best interest, only his. Everyone knew that before he was GIVEN the job. He tried to play hardass as Texas' governor thats why Gore won this election, but because of the communist electoral college, Bush is our new "leader". If Bush keeps on at this rate, this "superior" country will be very weak, look what a couple of planes did, crushed this nation. Imagine what a couple hundred would do. If he continues to look into only his best interests, lives and our "Superiority" WILL be compromised.
  4. Cool


    Anyone who wants anarchy is foolish IMO. Less strict government fine; but anarchy- yea right.

  5. Originally posted by SirSavageX


    With no government, and no laws, someone will eventually come along, kill you, take your possessions, and take the women of your family as their own.

    Government and order would be looking pretty good right about then. You sure anarchy is what you really want?
    Then I say get in your car, pack your lunch and bring it. Thats the way this country was intended from the start. Land of the free? Bull****. I got a ****ing ticket for not wearing my seatbelt. WTF? Who are some petty, $20k a year, nobody cops to tell me I have to wear my sealtbelt? Its my life, I choose to live it the way I want. Sounds childish but its the truth. There's so many ignorant laws out there that oppress everyone. That wasnt the intention of our founders. Its every man for themselves. You have all these politicians coming in, laying down laws, ruining MY life, so it should be my right to take theirs. Sounds ignorant and its pretty far fetched, but this world could exist without government, its more of a powertrip and an ego boost more than anything to be a part of it anyway.
    •   
       


  6. Originally posted by Big H
    Anyone who wants anarchy is foolish IMO. Less strict government fine; but anarchy- yea right.
    If you're going to judge someone based on MY opinions, then get the **** out of this thread son. You have NO credibility and you speak without merit, you're an 18 year old punk, you know **** about how the world works, so before you call people "foolish" for not believing what you do, you'd better do some reading and learining. You say Im foolish and thats the end of your statement, thus your lack of merit. You better be ready to back **** up if you make statements like that, dont let your alligator mouth get your humming bird ass in trouble. That was weak.
    Last edited by YellowJacket; 01-10-2003 at 07:09 AM.

  7. Preventing future attacks and setting the world's woes in order are two very different things. Bush has never said that he's going to heal the world, or that he can heal America from all woes, as that is impossible, what he has said he intends to do is invalidate the the threat that is Saddam. Saddam is a threat to the US and other peoples of the world, including his own, and that ONLY is the point of the US intervention that appears to be soon upon the horizon. The US/Worlds woes and crime and preventing another attack are not even remotley related to each other. 

  8. Originally posted by windwords7
    Saddam is a threat to the US and other peoples of the world, including his own, and that ONLY is the point of the US intervention that appears to be soon upon the horizon. The US/Worlds woes and crime and preventing another attack are not even remotley related to each other. 
    No one said they're related. But if you cant take care of your own people, our national debt, then how does he expect to save the world? None of this would even be happening if his dad werent a piece of ****.

  9. Originally posted by YellowJacket


    I just feel that you should take care of your own before you attempt to straigthen out the world. And you might say he is taking care of his own by doing whatever he's *talking* about doing. No. Its in his best interest. He's pissed off at the world because they got us. Yep, for once we DIDNT win. We were assaulted on our playing field. Another country came in, killed thousands of people and he cant handle it. Why not? Got me, hell this country seems to go in to some other country and invade it every year. So he's looking for a stress reliever because this all happened ON HIS watch and that makes him weak. When your own are thriving and successful, then worry about the rest of the country and aiding them and feeding them and keeping their country safe, until them mind your own business and concentrate on what you have to do to keep your job. [/b]
    He is taking care of his own, to the best of his ability and the powers delegated to the president. BTW, criminal matters such as murder, rape, etc. are largely the job of state and local governments, not the federal government, and not the president.

    You're absolutely right he's pissed. ****in' idiot terrorists killed thousands of our people. I'd say he has a right to be mad, because some 3000 of his fellow citizens were murdered in such a horrid way. I tell ya', I'm pretty pissed, too!

    We don't go and invade another country unless we feel there is a damn good reason. Have we made mistakes before? Sure. We recognize those mistakes, learn from them, and try not to repeat them.

    Our country IS thriving and successful. Don't think so? Try living in Afghanistan. You'll quickly learn what success is. In order to keep this success, he must do his best to prevent those that are jealous of our wealth from harming us.


    Face it, our interests arent being threatened, this isnt about our interests, this is aobut Bush's self-gratification. Bin Laden killed Americans, fine go kill him. Dont take it out on every country that opposes. We're shutting down North Korea's nuke plants.....might threaten the world, yet we are allowed to brew and create them? Ha, what kind of ****ing country is this? Who are we? Why can be do things and other country's can? We like being the big dog huh? Letting everyother country know we're the **** and they're petty no ones. Bush's time as well as this country's is coming very soon....
    Our interests aren't being threatened? I'd say when 19 idiots take out two buildings, along with some 3000 people, our interests are threatened.

    It's not about self-gratification. It's about preventing another atrocity such as the one we saw on 9/11.

    We are allowed to keep nukes because we won't misuse them, unlike other radical governments.


    Ignoring problems you have nothing to do with keeps your focus where it belongs. Doing a job the American people elected you to do (although he wasnt elected, he was given the job).
    That's where you're wrong. It does have to do with us. Anything anti-Western has to do with us, because we are basically the Mecca of Western Civilization. Saddam is anti-U.S., and there are many other radical governments and organizations that are just as bad, if not worse.

    He was elected to do this job. Foreign affairs is part of the president's job.


    Good men do nothing.
    The common man does nothing, the good, rational man acts in a rational manner to combat the problem.


    Ignorant men participate.
    Nah, ignorant men don't participate. They are naive, think that it is everyone else's problem, and think they are safe. They do not see the consequences of doing nothing is far greater than doing something.


    Oh innocent people were killed... oh well **** it, we'll call in an accident. Maybe North Korea feels threatened so they're pulling out their nukes? Oh wait, they cant, we're shutting them down.
    Call it an accident, maybe because it was an accident? Dude, if Bush wanted, he could go ape**** and destroy every other country out there.

    North Korea is an extremist state, and a failed state, I might add, that is anti-U.S. That is a threat.


    Then we're terroists because we threatened force against N. Korea if they didnt shut down there potential products of weapons of mass destructions. And if they didnt, you better believe we'd bomb them, so thats terrorism my friend. Restricting another country's ability to defend themselves, thats also very cowardly.
    Threatening of force is not terrorism. Terrorism is the use of force to intimidate a nation.

    A country can defend itself properly without developing nukes.

    [b]
    If Anyone [b/] dies, thats 1 too many for a cause we have nothing to do with. I hear everyday about our highly trained military crashing a helicopter and killing 4 or 5 people.
    See above. It does have to do with us.


    Bush doesnt give a **** about the commoner's best interest, only his. Everyone knew that before he was GIVEN the job. He tried to play hardass as Texas' governor thats why Gore won this election, but because of the communist electoral college, Bush is our new "leader". If Bush keeps on at this rate, this "superior" country will be very weak, look what a couple of planes did, crushed this nation. Imagine what a couple hundred would do. If he continues to look into only his best interests, lives and our "Superiority" WILL be compromised.
    Bush's best interest is to do what the majority of the American people want, in this case, fight terrorism. Otherwise, he'll be out in '04.

    This nation was weak, in that we were naive. Now we know better, and we are only getting stronger. This nation is far from crushed.
    Last edited by Sir Savage; 01-09-2003 at 10:15 PM.

  10. I agree the Bush Sr. dropped the ball on Iraq last time.

  11. Originally posted by YellowJacket


    Then I say get in your car, pack your lunch and bring it. Thats the way this country was intended from the start.
    We were intended to be a free nation, yes, but within reason. The founding fathers did not intend this to be a nation of anarchy, because that is the opposite of civilization. They were building a free civilization.


    Land of the free? Bull****. I got a ****ing ticket for not wearing my seatbelt. WTF? Who are some petty, $20k a year, nobody cops to tell me I have to wear my sealtbelt? Its my life, I choose to live it the way I want. Sounds childish but its the truth. There's so many ignorant laws out there that oppress everyone. That wasnt the intention of our founders.
    Being very close to a libertarian, I agree with this.


    Its every man for themselves. You have all these politicians coming in, laying down laws, ruining MY life, so it should be my right to take theirs. Sounds ignorant and its pretty far fetched, but this world could exist without government, its more of a powertrip and an ego boost more than anything to be a part of it anyway.
    We have only ourselves to blame for foolish laws, because we, the people, are the basis for our government.

    Yes, the world could exist without government, but civilization could not. We would quickly revert back to a hunter-gatherer type society. That is basically what anarchy is.

  12. Originally posted by SirSavageX


    He is taking care of his own, to the best of his ability and the powers delegated to the president. BTW, criminal matters such as murder, rape, etc. are largely the job of state and local governments, not the federal government, and not the president.
    Well if he cant and doesnt have the athority to prevent it in America, how the hell's he going to do it in other countries? By threatenening them? No one takes this dumbass serious anymore, he's all talk.

    You're absolutely right he's pissed. ****in' idiot terrorists killed thousands of our people. I'd say he has a right to be mad, because some 3000 of his fellow citizens were murdered in such a horrid way. I tell ya', I'm pretty pissed, too!


    So other countries dont have the right to be pissed at him and the US? Scroll back up and look at the number of lives we've taken, you expect other countries to sit there and take it because we're the "supreme dominate country" At least the Al Queda is doing something to make the playing field fair.

    We don't go and invade another country unless we feel there is a damn good reason. Have we made mistakes before? Sure. We recognize those mistakes, learn from them, and try not to repeat them.


    Every time we've invaded a country its been pointless and all for not, jsut got a few hundred troops killed here and there, no big deal, he doesnt care, its not his life.

    Our country IS thriving and successful. Don't think so? Try living in Afghanistan. You'll quickly learn what success is. In order to keep this success, he must do his best to prevent those that are jealous of our wealth from harming us.


    If we were truly thriving and successful, we wouldnt be trying to step on other countries for petty reasons. The reason we are doing well is BECAUSE of those other countries that provide us with the necessities we need to live and what do we give them in return? Some products and a couple missles.



    Our interests aren't being threatened? I'd say when 19 idiots take out two buildings, along with some 3000 people, our interests are threatened.


    I agree and maybe Bush should think about this next time he wants to attack another country, he might win the battle, but he'll NEVER win the war. Theres too many countries that hate us now and out to get us or aid those who will get us..... we'll have Bush to thank in a couple years

    We are allowed to keep nukes because we won't misuse them, unlike other radical governments.


    Whos to say we wont misues them? And if we did say that, who would stop us? No one. We're the big dog of the world and we want it to be known, thats lame. Who's to judge a radical goverment? I think our government is radical? Everyone is so blind by what they here on television and what theyre being told by our goverment.



    That's where you're wrong. It does have to do with us. Anything anti-Western has to do with us, because we are basically the Mecca of Western Civilization. Saddam is anti-U.S., and there are many other radical governments and organizations that are just as bad, if not worse.


    LoL...theres a hundred countries that are Anti-US. Even the UN is backing out, everyone's tired of our ****. Tired of our desperation to get back the respect we lost when we lost the Trade Centers. Get over it, they got the better of us. End of story. If anyting it should open the goverment's eyes to listen to them. That was the whole point anyways. Instead of listening, Bush is out to kill more people, like a 6 year old on the playground. You're not going to win the world's favortism by bombing and raiding them

    He was elected to do this job. Foreign affairs is part of the president's job.


    And what a great job he's doing. "If they dont agree with us, we'll just kill some of their people and threaten their rights and ability to defend themselves"



    A country can defend itself properly without developing nukes.


    So uhhh......any idea why we have them?


    This nation was weak, in that we were naive. Now we know better, and we are only getting stronger. This nation is far from crushed.
    This nation is still weak, always will be. Bush keeps making enemies for us and we'll have to reap the concenquesnces of HIS actions and thats bull****. Thats what this lovely goverment is doing for us all. We elected Gore and got Bush and look what he's doing for us? We're living in fear because of that piece of ****. Congrats if you voted for him, you've ****ed us all.

  13. Originally posted by CROWLER
    HA HA HA this thread is FUNNY ****.

    I seem to agree with about every OTHER post I WONDER why that is.
    If you have something intelligent to add then add it, otherwise shut the **** up. You've got a problem with me, its obvious by your smartass posts, this isnt the thread to act like a school girl in. Maybe you should go back to bb.com.
  14. Cool


    Originally posted by YellowJacket

    If you're going to judge someone based on MY opinions, then get the **** out of this thread son. You have NO credibility and you speak without merit, you're an 18 year old punk, you know **** about how the world works, so before you call people "foolish" for not believing what you do, you'd better do some reading and learining. You say Im foolish and thats the end of your statement, thus your lack of merit. You better be ready to back **** up if you make statements like that, dont let your alligator mouth get your humming bird mouth in trouble. That was weak.
    Easy tiger, I wasn't referring to you. And sure, I could easily argue why anarchy wouldn't work. But now it is bed time.

  15. Who deleted my 2 posts?

    You can see on of them 3 posts up what I posted. Infact it was quoted by Y/J so obviously it was deleted.

    What was wrong with what I posted?


    Y/J why you taking this personal?

    I expressed an opinon that is all.

    Obviously in threads that go back and forth usually you many times agree with every other post.

    I think this can be said for a number of other posters on this thread.

  16. Originally posted by YellowJacket


    If you have something intelligent to add then add it, otherwise shut the **** up. You've got a problem with me, its obvious by your smartass posts, this isnt the thread to act like a school girl in. Maybe you should go back to bb.com.
    Ok now I have reposted what I had and it has been deleted again.

    Anyone tell me what is wrong with what I said?

    BDC do me a favor and look at what I posted.

    If you agree I should leave this board I will.

    Y/J why you getting personal?

    I have agreed with you on a few other threads.

    I am sorry if I do not agree with you on this one.

    That is what makes this country GREAT.

    Check the thread I don't think ANYONE agreed with you.

  17. Originally posted by pjorstad
    That picture is a piece of crap and i would use it to wipe my ****ing ass and the people that believe what it says can kiss it!


    That picture is bull**** propoganda for one reason as lifeguard pointed out. Secondly iraq deserves what they get because they did some horrible things in kuwait and have a madmen as a leader. Also as far as vietnam, while i felt we were stupid for going in the war to get ourselves killed and am against us ever having gone there for SELFISH reasons but our GOAL was with good intentions at least.



    FUNNY HOW I DON"T SEE A ****ING PICK OF BIN LADEN ON THERE OR THE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR PENTAGON BEING BLOWN UP!

    EXACTLY bro Karma for you and all who agree.

    Check your first post in this thread to see if I gave you Karma.


    EXACTLY bro

    Karma for you and all the other people I agree with!!!!!!!!!

  18. Originally posted by CROWLER
    Who deleted my 2 posts?

    You can see on of them 3 posts up what I posted. Infact it was quoted by Y/J so obviously it was deleted.

    What was wrong with what I posted?


    Y/J why you taking this personal?

    I expressed an opinon that is all.

    Obviously in threads that go back and forth usually you many times agree with every other post.

    I think this can be said for a number of other posters on this thread.
    Think about what you post next time. If you agree with someone, agree with them, dont ever tell someone you dont agree with that they have their head up their ass. And if you do, they'll be deleted once more. This isnt a bb.com debate, post something intellgent as Chemo, SSX, WW7 and the others have, not "You have your head shoved up your ass" You're jsut embarassing yourself.

  19. Originally posted by CROWLER

    EXACTLY bro Karma for you and all who agree.

    Wow your karma means a lot to me

  20. YJ I really have to agree with you.

    In the last century the US has really messed its self up.  We've concerened our selves with foreign matters while allowing our country to go to hell.  Right now were throwing sh*t at Afghan and Iraq claiming they are dangerous and worthy of war but not to long ago we were praising these countires and **** over weapons by the shipful in our war againsts the commies and other countries.  Had we never got involved in Iran or felt like arming the Taliban to fight the Soviets we wouldn't have these problems to clean up.

    Also if we wished to imporve the quality of life in the US, statistically terrorism would be a very low priority.  But no one gets political prestige from improving health, controlling alcohol and smoking, or making safer auto transportation, they get it from bombing the hell our of country just to waste a few $bil. and create a few a new enemies.

    IMO the US could use a few decades of isolationism, just get things in order within the borders and then we can worry about a few rats running around in the desert.

  21. Originally posted by CROWLER




    Bro you deleted a post where I said:


    HA HA HA this thread is FUNNY ****.

    I seem to agree with about every OTHER post I WONDER why that is.


    What is wrong with that???

    I think you are getting too personal, but this is MY opinon OK???
    And I also deleted the other one where you said "I agree with everyone who doesnt have their heads shoved up their ass" Why is this thread funny? It was intended as a joke? Oooh! I know you're trying to be a smartass, sorry I didnt catch on.

  22. Originally posted by YellowJacket


    Well if he cant and doesnt have the athority to prevent it in America, how the hell's he going to do it in other countries? By threatenening them? No one takes this dumbass serious anymore, he's all talk.
    He's the Commander In Chief of the armed forces, so he can help prevent attacks and such through the use of military force.


    So other countries dont have the right to be pissed at him and the US? Scroll back up and look at the number of lives we've taken, you expect other countries to sit there and take it because we're the "supreme dominate country" At least the Al Queda is doing something to make the playing field fair.
    Other countries have a right to be pissed off all they want, but that doesn't mean their feelings are justified.

    As for the number of lives we've taken, they have all been for what we felt at the time was a good reason. In the case of Vietnam, our aim was to stop the spread of Communism, and thus, stop oppression. Did we make mistakes? Sure. Did some of our soldiers act less than soldierly? Of course. However, all of our mistakes were made with good intentions, and we've never done anything like Al Qaida has done.

    Al Qaida made the playing field fair? How so? By blind siding us and killing thousands?


    Every time we've invaded a country its been pointless and all for not, jsut got a few hundred troops killed here and there, no big deal, he doesnt care, its not his life.
    What is one time that we invaded a country, for truly no reason?


    If we were truly thriving and successful, we wouldnt be trying to step on other countries for petty reasons. The reason we are doing well is BECAUSE of those other countries that provide us with the necessities we need to live and what do we give them in return? Some products and a couple missles.
    We're not trying to step on other countries. We are trying to protect our citizens and maintain some stability of the global economy, of which, we are all a part of.

    Other countries don't give us necessities to live. I'd say that's a pretty inaccurate description of our part in the global economy. If anything, we give others the necessities to live. The companies in our economy probably make more contributions to the world than most other economies combined. Add to that, the fact that our government gives out billions in foreign aid to help other countries.


    Whos to say we wont misues them? And if we did say that, who would stop us? No one. We're the big dog of the world and we want it to be known, thats lame. Who's to judge a radical goverment? I think our government is radical? Everyone is so blind by what they here on television and what theyre being told by our goverment.
    Have we misused them yet? Nope. Why wouldn't we? We don't have a government bent on destroying another civilization.



    LoL...theres a hundred countries that are Anti-US. Even the UN is backing out, everyone's tired of our ****. Tired of our desperation to get back the respect we lost when we lost the Trade Centers. Get over it, they got the better of us. End of story. If anyting it should open the goverment's eyes to listen to them. That was the whole point anyways. Instead of listening, Bush is out to kill more people, like a 6 year old on the playground. You're not going to win the world's favortism by bombing and raiding them
    Yes, there are many that are anti-U.S. to an extent, but nothing like Iraq and a few others. They are not as extreme. The main problem lies with extremist regimes such as Iraq, North Korea, and extremist organizations, such as Al Qaida.

    And there are MANY other countries that care about this situation and want to see Saddam gone. We live in a world economy now, so if we get ****ed up, everyone gets ****ed up. That, if nothing else, has many countries on our side.

    Yes, they got the best of us that one instance. But how hard is it to get the "best" of someone when you blind side them??


    And what a great job he's doing. "If they dont agree with us, we'll just kill some of their people and threaten their rights and ability to defend themselves"
    I think it's more like "If they threaten us, we will use force against them." Nobody is taking away anybody's right to defend themselves. North Korea has a good military, and is very capable of defending itself.


    So uhhh......any idea why we have them?
    Yes, we developed them and used them so we would not have to invade Japan in WWII and face hundreds of thousands of more casualties. Since that point, we have had them, and developed them further, mostly due to the communist, Soviet threat of the Cold War.


    This nation is still weak, always will be. Bush keeps making enemies for us and we'll have to reap the concenquesnces of HIS actions and thats bull****. Thats what this lovely goverment is doing for us all. We elected Gore and got Bush and look what he's doing for us? We're living in fear because of that piece of ****. Congrats if you voted for him, you've ****ed us all.
    The only way we are weak is that the commoner is ignorant. Granted, that is a big weakness. And we wonder why the government takes away our freedoms.

    Anyway, Bush isn't making anymore enemies than we didn't already have. These people have hated us for a long time, for absurd reasons.

    I'm very happy that Gore didn't win. That's all we need is another idiot liberal in the white house. The terrorists wouldn't need to sneak into the country to perform their deeds, Gore would invite them into the Whitehouse to have ****ing coffee!

    And even though I am basically a Libertarian, I loathe Harry Brown. He's so soft on terrorism it's disgusting.

    So yes, I voted for Bush, because he was the lesser of three evils. Turns out, because of the circumstances we are now in, he's the right man for the job.

  23. Originally posted by weissmuller
    YJ I really have to agree with you.

    In the last century the US has really messed its self up.  We've concerened our selves with foreign matters while allowing our country to go to hell.  Right now were throwing sh*t at Afghan and Iraq claiming they are dangerous and worthy of war but not to long ago we were praising these countires and **** over weapons by the shipful in our war againsts the commies and other countries.  Had we never got involved in Iran or felt like arming the Taliban to fight the Soviets we wouldn't have these problems to clean up.
    How has our country "gone to hell"?? Yes, we praised those countries, because, at the time, they were the lesser of two evils. But because we employed Afghan rebels, the Soviets were driven out, and the empire collapsed soon after. Mistake? Dunno. Like I said, lesser of two evils.

    Also, about the same time, Iran had gone through that whole Islamic revolution thing. Remember the U.S. Embassy? Yeah. So picking between the lesser of two evils again. Iraq over Iran.

    It's so easy to look back now and say "We were stupid." But what was the alternative? There are no easy choices.


    Also if we wished to imporve the quality of life in the US, statistically terrorism would be a very low priority.  But no one gets political prestige from improving health, controlling alcohol and smoking, or making safer auto transportation, they get it from bombing the hell our of country just to waste a few $bil. and create a few a new enemies.
    It is apparent to me, from this passage, that you have very little knowledge of politics. Politicians get prestige anytime they "save" the public from a "threat". That can be from outside the country, or inside the country. It can be health related, etc. Does the prohormone bill mean anything to you? A couple of Congressmen are attempting to "save the children" with their anti-prohormone bill. This gives them prestige among the people they represent, because they are ignorant and truly believe these reps. have saved their kids from a dangerous threat.

    How does the goverment improve the quality of life in a capitalistic society?? It's free enterprise, a free economy. YOU improve your quality of life through hard work and achievement.

  24. Christ, have I really been debating for over two hours?? Damn, I must go work out now.

  25. Originally posted by SirSavageX


    He's the Commander In Chief of the armed forces, so he can help prevent attacks and such through the use of military force.


    Yes and put his ass on a plane and fly him over there to fight and I think his mind would change real quick.

    As for the number of lives we've taken, they have all been for what we felt at the time was a good reason. In the case of Vietnam, our aim was to stop the spread of Communism, and thus, stop oppression. Did we make mistakes? Sure. Did some of our soldiers act less than soldierly? Of course. However, all of our mistakes were made with good intentions, and we've never done anything like Al Qaida has done.


    First off NOTHING justifies taking another person's life. No one on this earth can do that and get away with it. A good reason to take someone's life, thats hilarious. There's no such thing as a good reason to kill someone. Those dirty ****ers killed 1,000's of Americans, nothing justifies that, but it served its purpose. Its pretty ****ty a country has to kill that many people just to be listened to huh?

    Al Qaida made the playing field fair? How so? By blind siding us and killing thousands?


    The playing field is fair now because we think about what we do everyday. Americans now value their lives more than ever. We pay attention to petty countries because we now see what they're capable of. We've oppressed so many countries for so long, maybe times are changing?



    What is one time that we invaded a country, for truly no reason?


    I'll give you a few. How many times have we went into a country and set up shop to prepare to raid a boarding country? a ****load of times. How many countries do we have "bases" in now to prepare for attack? Many. And if they dont let us in their country to set up bases, they better fear for their lives huh? No one questions or contradicts America by god, you'll feel the wrath of George Bush



    We're not trying to step on other countries. We are trying to protect our citizens and maintain some stability of the global economy, of which, we are all a part of.


    But dont you see? By taking these steps, there's psycho's out there in planes ready to crash into buildings. Bush is killing off his own country by trying to prove himself.

    Other countries don't give us necessities to live. I'd say that's a pretty inaccurate description of our part in the global economy. If anything, we give others the necessities to live. The companies in our economy probably make more contributions to the world than most other economies combined. Add to that, the fact that our government gives out billions in foreign aid to help other countries.


    Whoa! So we dont get foods, oils, automobiles, soliders, etc from other countries, could have fooled me.



    Have we misused them yet? Nope. Why wouldn't we? We don't have a government bent on destroying another civilization.


    Oh we havent misused them? What about all those tests we've ran to test our nukes out aye? The Barbi Islands will be a wasteland for 30,000 more years. What about when we nuked Japan? I thought you said earlier a country can defend itself without the use of nukes? Guess we cant. We have a goverment bent on letting everyone know we're in charge.


    Yes, there are many that are anti-U.S. to an extent, but nothing like Iraq and a few others. They are not as extreme. The main problem lies with extremist regimes such as Iraq, North Korea, and extremist organizations, such as Al Qaida.


    Another double standard. Your critical of other countries who do the same ignorant **** as we do. What gives us the right to do it and not them? Try to see this beyond what you hear on TV and beyond YOUR best interest.

    Yes, they got the best of us that one instance. But how hard is it to get the "best" of someone when you blind side them??


    I wouldnt say "blind side" we had it coming. The US government knew of Bin Laden, and didnt do anything about him, so their own ingorance cost a lot of American's their lives. And besides, what do you expect Afghanistan to do? I doubt we'll let them make missles or plans to do anything on their own.


    I think it's more like "If they threaten us, we will use force against them." Nobody is taking away anybody's right to defend themselves. North Korea has a good military, and is very capable of defending itself.


    Against who? We have the greatest Military in the world, why do we have to make nukes? Surely not for ****s and giggles. I think us having nukes is jsut to say we do, so other countries will fear us. N. Korea is just lelveling the playing field by having some of their own, nothing wrong with that.


    Yes, we developed them and used them so we would not have to invade Japan in WWII and face hundreds of thousands of more casualties. Since that point, we have had them, and developed them further, mostly due to the communist, Soviet threat of the Cold War.


    We used nukes to kill thousands upon thousands of people, why cant Korea use them to get what they need done done? Oh wait another double standard. Its ok for us to do it, but no one else.


    The only way we are weak is that the commoner is ignorant. Granted, that is a big weakness. And we wonder why the government takes away our freedoms.


    Just the beginning of communism my friend.

    Anyway, Bush isn't making anymore enemies than we didn't already have. These people have hated us for a long time, for absurd reasons.


    Not true. Everyone is sick of our ****. We're constantly wanting war with someone and expecting to be backed up EVERY time. Thats bull****.

    I'm very happy that Gore didn't win. That's all we need is another idiot liberal in the white house. The terrorists wouldn't need to sneak into the country to perform their deeds, Gore would invite them into the Whitehouse to have ****ing coffee!


    Tell me this, how many terrorist attacks occured on America when Clinton was president? None. Maybe we need him back. Maybe he'd do his job. And the terrorists obviously had no trouble sneaking as Bush is our leader although he knew of the Al Queda's activity, just neglected to do anything, probably had a hunting trip or something that weekend, oh well, he and his family are ok, thats all that matters.

    So yes, I voted for Bush, because he was the lesser of three evils. Turns out, because of the circumstances we are now in, he's the right man for the job.
    What a great job he's doing. Indirectly killing his own people. We should all praise him

  26. **** it, Life's too short to be told what to do all your life. Im from WV, Im already in the negative. Capitalism suppresses my options in life bcause I come from a low income family, thats bad enough. Then I have to pay a fine for not wearing a seatbelt while driving MY car. When does it end? It doesnt until the day you die. People got created equal to you, rule YOUR Life. They tell YOU what to do and you will do it, whether you want to or not. **** that, you can have your petty country and its powertriping government. ****, wont even be able to use pro hormones in a month or 2, why? **** it, why not! Something else to restrict in this country to insure you're not enjoying life.

  27. This thread has progressed with amazing speed and thought. I have to say our president is not like the great leaders of the distant past. Leaders, kings, and emperors of the past used to fight side by side with their troops. They even led them into battle. Their purpose was to rally and spur the troops into a winning spirit of unconditional surrender. I know that we must act as a global cooperative now, so we must deal with the feelings of other countries in this horrible transgression. In acting globally we need to take into account the actions of others as we dwell on this problem. We need to hear both sides of the story whether we believe what they have to say or not. We now have to consider a war on two fronts besides the Iraqi problem. North Korea is no laughing matter either. They have the possible backing of the Chinese government. This is a time of concern and deep thought in the history of our nation. We should proceed with caution into these endeavors. We are a strong nation with a head strong population. We need to look at this with great concern and an open mind. Our nation is not in peril but standing once again on the brink of political and social greatness. The mind is our greatest ally in going into this war if we must have it. Fear is not an option. Like the British Prime Minister said be prepared for the backlash if you do not stand with us. We are ready for the fight and we are going to whoop some ass so be ready you have been forewarned.

  28. You know if it was up to me id ****ing drop a hydrogen bomb on all the major cities in iraq and north korea and china all at one instance just so they get the message :P

    That truly is the only way to solve. But because bush is gonna be a wussy about things and let things get out of control like wussy clinton and wussy Bush Sr we are gonna have a lot ofproblems on are hands in the future.

  29. Originally posted by pjorstad
    You know if it was up to me id ****ing drop a hydrogen bomb on all the major cities in iraq and north korea and china all at one instance just so they get the message :P

    That why it will never be up to you. Once a bomb like that is dropped in this day and age, WW3 is inevitable and the world WILL come to an end. This isnt even a consideration. But I agree that Bush either needs to put up or shut up. Quit threatening countrys, do something or keep your ****in mouth shut

  30. Originally posted by YellowJacket



    That why it will never be up to you. Once a bomb like that is dropped in this day and age, WW3 is inevitable and the world WILL come to an end. This isnt even a consideration. But I agree that Bush either needs to put up or shut up. Quit threatening countrys, do something or keep your ****in mouth shut
    Ok so since you are a mod you can tell a member to keep your ****in mouth shut.

    But I can not say "I agree with everyone who doesnt have their heads shoved up their ass" or you will delete it???

    Why I did NOT direct this at anyone.

    Your post was directly at a member.

    What is up with that sensorship???
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