Terrorism anyone?

[Lifeguard]

Originally posted by SirSavageX
 


BTW, even if those death numbers are true (from Vietnam, etc.), Bush had nothing to do with them.

 

  
Exactly

 

LG.  

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by SirSavageX


Ah, allow me to retort.

Iraq has killed thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of its own people, namely, the Curds. Take a look at the videotape of all the women who died in the streets, with their children in their arms, all killed by nerve toxins made and launched by, you guessed it, Saddam.

How many people die in this country everyday from gun shots? How many die of starvation? How many woman are raped in THIS country? Until this country is set and ran properly, how can you stick your nose where it doesnt belong? Exactly, you cant. He cant even deal with thats going on here, so he's going to solve the world's problems? Ha.

Sure, let's sit back, ignore it, and let the rest of the world handle it. None of our business, right?? I believe that's what we did during the majority of WWII, is it not, when Jews were being exterminated by the millions?

Maybe if we would have ignored it, we would still have 2 large buildings in New York and 1,000s of more lives in this country huh? Now everyone here livesi n fear of another attack, and they blame the Al Queda. If it were not for the precious, clueless president of this country, you wouldnt have to live in fear.

And weapons of mass destruction or not, Saddam has repeatedly breached every resolution passed by the UN, and repeatedly provoked war. That, coupled with the oppression and killing of his own people, is more than enough reason to take him out.

So I ask you this.... who are we to interject? Oh thats right, the ruler of the free world

As for Bush being a terrorist, absurd. How many of our people has he had gassed or exterminated?? None. Has he planned unprovoked attacks on civilians in other countries?? Nope.

He hasnt? He didnt drop those mysterious bombs a few months ago that landed in a civilian camp and I think I remember killing members of a wedding in a foreign country? Planned or not, attacks against a country in YOUR BEST INTEREST is terrorism. We all know why he wants a war with Iraq, not because they have weapons of mass destructions (because they dont, or so our OWN inspectors say) its because Saddam threatened the life of his father....

[/b]BTW, even if those death numbers are true (from Vietnam, etc.), Bush had nothing to do with them. [/B]

No he didnt then, but he's doing the same thing as they formers were. Hes sticking his nose where it does not belong, sending US troops over there to be killed. What a stand up guy.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by DarCSA
Kill em all and let god sort em out!!!!

Typical American attitude.....

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by Lifeguard
 

  
Exactly

 

LG.  

Hes the leader of this country. Hes like every other leader in this country. He provokes worthless "attacks" on other countrys for what, Im not sure he even knows.

[YellowJacket]

By the way, the poster isnt saying only Bush is a terrorist, its saying America is, and Bush talks terrorist this and terrorist that, and he's the leader of this "great nation" so he is in fact the new terrorist.

[DarCSA]

Originally posted by YellowJacket

Typical American attitude.....

You don't think so. Why not do it? It solves the problem fast and has little repercussions. Take it to them and whip their ass.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by DarCSA


You don't think so. Why not do it? It solves the problem fast and has little repercussions. Take it to them and whip their ass.

Or going to solve the problem by the means your trying to prevent? Maybe you should run for president....

[DarCSA]

Originally posted by YellowJacket


Or going to solve the problem by the means your trying to prevent? Maybe you should run for president....

I planned on it one day. Someone has to set this nation on its ear. There has to be a leader and I have never been a follower. Time to kick ass and take names. I will persue it with intensity and vigor to solve the problems that lie before us. Time to straighten this bitch up and set her straight. Uncle Sam is pisssed with Mother Liberty and is going to make her see the real picture not the cubist style that she has been forced to admire for too long. Realism is here baby and it is time to see the light.

[Sir Savage]

Originally posted by YellowJacket


How many people die in this country everyday from gun shots? How many die of starvation? How many woman are raped in THIS country? Until this country is set and ran properly, how can you stick your nose where it doesnt belong? Exactly, you cant. He cant even deal with thats going on here, so he's going to solve the world's problems? Ha.

What do you expect? No problems at all? Perfection? Not going to happen. There are always going to be those unfortunate people who are killed, raped, etc., and there's nothing you can do to completely prevent or stop that. These are the problems we face in a society where freedom is placed very highly, because freedom and order are inherently opposed to one another. There are always going to be the idiots out there. Some sort of balance has to be aimed for. Again, no way to be perfect.

As for sticking our nose where it doesn't belong, our nose belongs anywhere where our national interests are threatened, whether it be a safety issue of our citizens, economical, or what have you.

Maybe if we would have ignored it, we would still have 2 large buildings in New York and 1,000s of more lives in this country huh? Now everyone here livesi n fear of another attack, and they blame the Al Queda. If it were not for the precious, clueless president of this country, you wouldnt have to live in fear.

Ignore a problem? What good does that do? Eventually, it will spread to you, and oftentimes, it is too late, by that point, to do anything about it.

I'm paraphrasing, but all that is necessary for the forces of evil to win, is for enough good men to do nothing. Remember that.

So I ask you this.... who are we to interject? Oh thats right, the ruler of the free world

First of all, as I said, anytime our interests are threatened, we have a right to intercede. Second, it is not just us who would intercede, but a global coalition through the UN. We are not the only ones that wish to see this man and regime go.

He hasnt? He didnt drop those mysterious bombs a few months ago that landed in a civilian camp and I think I remember killing members of a wedding in a foreign country? Planned or not, attacks against a country in YOUR BEST INTEREST is terrorism. We all know why he wants a war with Iraq, not because they have weapons of mass destructions (because they dont, or so our OWN inspectors say) its because Saddam threatened the life of his father....

First, if they were civilians, it was not intentional. Come on, man, if he was really a terrorist and wanted to harm others he'd break out the nukes, or other serious weapons.

Terrorism is a violent means to intimidate a country into doing something that you want. That is different than war. Certainly, civilians die in war, and there's nothing you can do to completely prevent that. It is very unfortunate. However, some things must be done.

He doesn't want a war with Saddam simply because Saddam made an attempt on Bush Sr.'s life. Before 9/11, Georgie didn't really give a rat's ass about Saddam. At least, not like he does now. That is because he now sees what a threat extremist states and organizations from that part of the world are.

No he didnt then, but he's doing the same thing as they formers were. Hes sticking his nose where it does not belong, sending US troops over there to be killed. What a stand up guy.

Assuming there is a war, it is HIGHLY unlikely that many of our troops will be killed. Our soldiers are just too highly trained, and our technology is just too advanced.

On the other side, it is also highly unlikely that many of the Iraqis will be killed. The majority of his armed forces are likely to surrender in the face of a superior enemy, and due to careful planning, civilian casualties will also be cut down a great deal.

[Big H]

Wow, I'm speechless. Except it fails to tell about all the countries we have aided that practiced democracy.

The WORST thing to do is to be isolated YJ. I agree we don't need to get involved in other people's probelms, especially those that involve war, but we do need ALLIES. And living in isolation isn't going to work; remember WW2? Anyway, we need to react with force, becuase the worst thing we can do is to sit back and take it like that ***got clinton did.

[Chemo]

How do I address this topic?  I have a strong thought process when dealing with issues of international doctrine and military intervention.  I may be a bit biased...

What do I think?  There is a concept most in the medical community are familiar with that is called triage (French for sort) that mandates the most help for those that will benefit and sacrificing the few to have more warm bodies at the end.  In the case of Saddam Hussein, the soldiers that will fall shall save others in the future.  Does anyone else remember that he gasses his own people?  This type of savage leadership shows blatant disregard for human value and should be acted on by not only the US but also the international community.  Is he a terrorist?  Only to his own people...

So, is Bush a domestic terrorist?  I believe the intent of his new doctrines, cabinets, bureaus, and approval of snooping techniques (to be inclusive of electronic monitoring) are honorable but the implementation will no doubt be interpreted very liberally.  This may lead to a deprivation of freedoms we took for granted in the past but will provide a greater shield from future attacks.  Where is the middle ground between providing a safe way of life and depriving the quality of that life that is so characteristic of American ideology?  This will be debated greatly by the leaders of this nation in the coming years so it will be intersting to see where the hammer falls.

The difference between the citizens of this country being raped, homeless, murdered, starved, and generally violated and Iraq is that over here our government is actually trying to STOP it and NOT sanction or perpetrate it.

For the record, an anti-government view is acceptable as a right to individual opinion...this is the idea that the nation was founded on.  I do not support this view as I have fought for that flag that so many take for granted and know the luxuries that we enjoy here.

No doubt YJ's post was meant to provoke thought and provide an alternative view to mainstream thinking.  The mind is like a book...it can only be used when it is open.  Think critically of this post and see the side of those affected by US international doctrine.

Chemo

[Sir Savage]

Originally posted by YellowJacket



Im anti-formal government, no matter who's it is.

With no government, and no laws, someone will eventually come along, kill you, take your possessions, and take the women of your family as their own.

Government and order would be looking pretty good right about then. You sure anarchy is what you really want?

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by SirSavageX


What do you expect? No problems at all? Perfection? Not going to happen. There are always going to be those unfortunate people who are killed, raped, etc., and there's nothing you can do to completely prevent or stop that. These are the problems we face in a society where freedom is placed very highly, because freedom and order are inherently opposed to one another. There are always going to be the idiots out there. Some sort of balance has to be aimed for. Again, no way to be perfect.

I just feel that you should take care of your own before you attempt to straigthen out the world. And you might say he is taking care of his own by doing whatever he's *talking* about doing. No. Its in his best interest. He's pissed off at the world because they got us. Yep, for once we DIDNT win. We were assaulted on our playing field. Another country came in, killed thousands of people and he cant handle it. Why not? Got me, hell this country seems to go in to some other country and invade it every year. So he's looking for a stress reliever because this all happened ON HIS watch and that makes him weak. When your own are thriving and successful, then worry about the rest of the country and aiding them and feeding them and keeping their country safe, until them mind your own business and concentrate on what you have to do to keep your job.

As for sticking our nose where it doesn't belong, our nose belongs anywhere where our national interests are threatened, whether it be a safety issue of our citizens, economical, or what have you.

Face it, our interests arent being threatened, this isnt about our interests, this is aobut Bush's self-gratification. Bin Laden killed Americans, fine go kill him. Dont take it out on every country that opposes. We're shutting down North Korea's nuke plants.....might threaten the world, yet we are allowed to brew and create them? Ha, what kind of ****ing country is this? Who are we? Why can be do things and other country's can? We like being the big dog huh? Letting everyother country know we're the **** and they're petty no ones. Bush's time as well as this country's is coming very soon....

Ignore a problem? What good does that do? Eventually, it will spread to you, and oftentimes, it is too late, by that point, to do anything about it.

Ignoring problems you have nothing to do with keeps your focus where it belongs. Doing a job the American people elected you to do (although he wasnt elected, he was given the job).

I'm paraphrasing, but all that is necessary for the forces of evil to win, is for enough good men to do nothing. Remember that.

Good men do nothing. Ignorant men participate.

First, if they were civilians, it was not intentional. Come on, man, if he was really a terrorist and wanted to harm others he'd break out the nukes, or other serious weapons.

Oh innocent people were killed... oh well **** it, we'll call in an accident. Maybe North Korea feels threatened so they're pulling out their nukes? Oh wait, they cant, we're shutting them down.

Terrorism is a violent means to intimidate a country into doing something that you want. That is different than war. Certainly, civilians die in war, and there's nothing you can do to completely prevent that. It is very unfortunate. However, some things must be done.

Then we're terroists because we threatened force against N. Korea if they didnt shut down there potential products of weapons of mass destructions. And if they didnt, you better believe we'd bomb them, so thats terrorism my friend. Restricting another country's ability to defend themselves, thats also very cowardly.

Assuming there is a war, it is HIGHLY unlikely that many of our troops will be killed. Our soldiers are just too highly trained, and our technology is just too advanced.

If [b] Anyone [b/] dies, thats 1 too many for a cause we have nothing to do with. I hear everyday about our highly trained military crashing a helicopter and killing 4 or 5 people.

On the other side, it is also highly unlikely that many of the Iraqis will be killed. The majority of his armed forces are likely to surrender in the face of a superior enemy, and due to careful planning, civilian casualties will also be cut down a great deal.

Bush doesnt give a **** about the commoner's best interest, only his. Everyone knew that before he was GIVEN the job. He tried to play hardass as Texas' governor thats why Gore won this election, but because of the communist electoral college, Bush is our new "leader". If Bush keeps on at this rate, this "superior" country will be very weak, look what a couple of planes did, crushed this nation. Imagine what a couple hundred would do. If he continues to look into only his best interests, lives and our "Superiority" WILL be compromised.

[Big H]

Anyone who wants anarchy is foolish IMO. Less strict government fine; but anarchy- yea right.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by SirSavageX


With no government, and no laws, someone will eventually come along, kill you, take your possessions, and take the women of your family as their own.

Government and order would be looking pretty good right about then. You sure anarchy is what you really want?

Then I say get in your car, pack your lunch and bring it. Thats the way this country was intended from the start. Land of the free? Bull****. I got a ****ing ticket for not wearing my seatbelt. WTF? Who are some petty, $20k a year, nobody cops to tell me I have to wear my sealtbelt? Its my life, I choose to live it the way I want. Sounds childish but its the truth. There's so many ignorant laws out there that oppress everyone. That wasnt the intention of our founders. Its every man for themselves. You have all these politicians coming in, laying down laws, ruining MY life, so it should be my right to take theirs. Sounds ignorant and its pretty far fetched, but this world could exist without government, its more of a powertrip and an ego boost more than anything to be a part of it anyway.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by Big H
Anyone who wants anarchy is foolish IMO. Less strict government fine; but anarchy- yea right.

If you're going to judge someone based on MY opinions, then get the **** out of this thread son. You have NO credibility and you speak without merit, you're an 18 year old punk, you know **** about how the world works, so before you call people "foolish" for not believing what you do, you'd better do some reading and learining. You say Im foolish and thats the end of your statement, thus your lack of merit. You better be ready to back **** up if you make statements like that, dont let your alligator mouth get your humming bird ass in trouble. That was weak.

[windwords7]

Preventing future attacks and setting the world's woes in order are two very different things. Bush has never said that he's going to heal the world, or that he can heal America from all woes, as that is impossible, what he has said he intends to do is invalidate the the threat that is Saddam. Saddam is a threat to the US and other peoples of the world, including his own, and that ONLY is the point of the US intervention that appears to be soon upon the horizon. The US/Worlds woes and crime and preventing another attack are not even remotley related to each other. 

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by windwords7
Saddam is a threat to the US and other peoples of the world, including his own, and that ONLY is the point of the US intervention that appears to be soon upon the horizon. The US/Worlds woes and crime and preventing another attack are not even remotley related to each other. 

No one said they're related. But if you cant take care of your own people, our national debt, then how does he expect to save the world? None of this would even be happening if his dad werent a piece of ****.

[Sir Savage]

Originally posted by YellowJacket


I just feel that you should take care of your own before you attempt to straigthen out the world. And you might say he is taking care of his own by doing whatever he's *talking* about doing. No. Its in his best interest. He's pissed off at the world because they got us. Yep, for once we DIDNT win. We were assaulted on our playing field. Another country came in, killed thousands of people and he cant handle it. Why not? Got me, hell this country seems to go in to some other country and invade it every year. So he's looking for a stress reliever because this all happened ON HIS watch and that makes him weak. When your own are thriving and successful, then worry about the rest of the country and aiding them and feeding them and keeping their country safe, until them mind your own business and concentrate on what you have to do to keep your job. [/b]

He is taking care of his own, to the best of his ability and the powers delegated to the president. BTW, criminal matters such as murder, rape, etc. are largely the job of state and local governments, not the federal government, and not the president.

You're absolutely right he's pissed. ****in' idiot terrorists killed thousands of our people. I'd say he has a right to be mad, because some 3000 of his fellow citizens were murdered in such a horrid way. I tell ya', I'm pretty pissed, too!

We don't go and invade another country unless we feel there is a damn good reason. Have we made mistakes before? Sure. We recognize those mistakes, learn from them, and try not to repeat them.

Our country IS thriving and successful. Don't think so? Try living in Afghanistan. You'll quickly learn what success is. In order to keep this success, he must do his best to prevent those that are jealous of our wealth from harming us.

Face it, our interests arent being threatened, this isnt about our interests, this is aobut Bush's self-gratification. Bin Laden killed Americans, fine go kill him. Dont take it out on every country that opposes. We're shutting down North Korea's nuke plants.....might threaten the world, yet we are allowed to brew and create them? Ha, what kind of ****ing country is this? Who are we? Why can be do things and other country's can? We like being the big dog huh? Letting everyother country know we're the **** and they're petty no ones. Bush's time as well as this country's is coming very soon....

Our interests aren't being threatened? I'd say when 19 idiots take out two buildings, along with some 3000 people, our interests are threatened.

It's not about self-gratification. It's about preventing another atrocity such as the one we saw on 9/11.

We are allowed to keep nukes because we won't misuse them, unlike other radical governments.

Ignoring problems you have nothing to do with keeps your focus where it belongs. Doing a job the American people elected you to do (although he wasnt elected, he was given the job).

That's where you're wrong. It does have to do with us. Anything anti-Western has to do with us, because we are basically the Mecca of Western Civilization. Saddam is anti-U.S., and there are many other radical governments and organizations that are just as bad, if not worse.

He was elected to do this job. Foreign affairs is part of the president's job.

Good men do nothing.

The common man does nothing, the good, rational man acts in a rational manner to combat the problem.

Ignorant men participate.

Nah, ignorant men don't participate. They are naive, think that it is everyone else's problem, and think they are safe. They do not see the consequences of doing nothing is far greater than doing something.

Oh innocent people were killed... oh well **** it, we'll call in an accident. Maybe North Korea feels threatened so they're pulling out their nukes? Oh wait, they cant, we're shutting them down.

Call it an accident, maybe because it was an accident? Dude, if Bush wanted, he could go ape**** and destroy every other country out there.

North Korea is an extremist state, and a failed state, I might add, that is anti-U.S. That is a threat.

Then we're terroists because we threatened force against N. Korea if they didnt shut down there potential products of weapons of mass destructions. And if they didnt, you better believe we'd bomb them, so thats terrorism my friend. Restricting another country's ability to defend themselves, thats also very cowardly.

Threatening of force is not terrorism. Terrorism is the use of force to intimidate a nation.

A country can defend itself properly without developing nukes.

[b]
If Anyone [b/] dies, thats 1 too many for a cause we have nothing to do with. I hear everyday about our highly trained military crashing a helicopter and killing 4 or 5 people.

See above. It does have to do with us.

Bush doesnt give a **** about the commoner's best interest, only his. Everyone knew that before he was GIVEN the job. He tried to play hardass as Texas' governor thats why Gore won this election, but because of the communist electoral college, Bush is our new "leader". If Bush keeps on at this rate, this "superior" country will be very weak, look what a couple of planes did, crushed this nation. Imagine what a couple hundred would do. If he continues to look into only his best interests, lives and our "Superiority" WILL be compromised.

Bush's best interest is to do what the majority of the American people want, in this case, fight terrorism. Otherwise, he'll be out in '04.

This nation was weak, in that we were naive. Now we know better, and we are only getting stronger. This nation is far from crushed.

[windwords7]

I agree the Bush Sr. dropped the ball on Iraq last time.