Why I Don't believe in natural bodybuilding
03-02-2009 03:06 PM
Why I Don't believe in natural bodybuilding
Why I Don't Believe In Natural Bodybuilding
By: Justin Hayward and Charles Simeone
My name is Justin Hayward. I compete in the National Physique Committee(NPC), which as many people know is the national bodybuilding organization that is most well known. It is the organization where all the best competitors get their pro-cards, and go on to become IFBB athletes. The thing about the NPC versus other organizations is that the NPC is an open competition, meaning there is no drug or polygraph test. There are no rules saying what you are allowed and not allowed to do or take to place well. Many see this as destructive to ones health.
As many of you know, I train and work with athletes that compete in both the NPC as well as in natural organizations. The natural leagues that I'm most familiar with are the OCB and the INBF. These two may be the biggest natural competitions aside from muscle mania, and offer pro cards which offers the possibility to compete on the "natural pro stage" with the WNBF and the IFPA. I have accompanied my athletes to various competitions in these leagues as well as the drug and polygraph tests needed to compete.
I will give specific examples of why I do not believe in these natural organizations. First, lets start with the OCB, the most drug-laden of natural organizations. I accompanied one of my athletes (who was in fact 100% natural- no pro-hormones, steroids or illegal fat burners) to his OCB polygraph test in 2008. He was asked 4 questions- Have you ever taken testosterone, have you ever taken clenbuterol, have you ever taken growth hormone, and have you ever taken lasix. These were the only questions that were asked. This is about 4 out of hundreds of steroids, prohormones, fat burners and other chemicals used for bodybuilding purposes. The conclusion here is that these athletes could take almost any drug they wanted and get through this polygraph test.
The INBF which is a more strict organization, is also flawed when it comes to drug and polygraph testing. My client competed in an INBF competition a few weeks after the OCB show and they accepted the OCB polygraph for his entry. They did not test him again. In both competitions, he placed extremely well in the men's divisions. I also have had a few encounters with top natural pro's who recommend prohormones, using their own experiences with these products as their recommendations. One of these pros is currently one of the most well known natural athletes in the WORLD.
My name is Charles Simeone and I have competed in almost 10 INBF shows, took second in the northeast america and have won 1 overall INBF title. I have been at schows MANY times where athletes have actually told me that they have used compounds such as clenbuterol. Also, the urine test given to athletes are far from strict. The INBF, as Justin said, is one of the toughest natural organizations as far as banned substances, but still they lag in the manner that they test for these drugs. When I was tested for my competitions, I was given a cup and they told me the bathroom was down the hall. This bathroom was nowhere near where they gave me the cup and I easily could have gotten someone else to do it for me. However, there was no need, as I had never taken more than a test booster and always followed the banned substance list.
After I while, I decided that competing on a playing field that was supposed to be even, but was not, was not for me. I have now decided to compete in the NPC. There is no way to know if the winners at these natural organizations are actually natural, so if you are placing well in them anyways, why not compete against bigger and better guys in the NPC? That's the transition I decided to make and will be competing sometime next year.
In conclusion, we are not bashing or discrediting people who really do bodybuild naturally. There are plenty of guys who do this, and good for them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with bodybuilding naturally. However, keep in mind if you plan on competing, if you're stepping on a very competitive stage, that not all of your competition is going to have the same natural mindset that you have. You are not competing on an even playing field, and the outcome may not be fair.
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03-03-2009 02:28 AM
interesting read. I can't believe they're using a polygraph test to test for doping.
We all know that it's hard for drug test procedures to keep up with the times, but this is too ridiculous. As far as Urine tests, I don't know how they think they can use that to detect for let's say Synthetic Growth Hormone.
03-03-2009 02:48 AM
1)There is an assumption made here, which is that everyone tested gets the exact same 4 questions. And that the athlete knows ahead of time which 4 questions these are. (they might be 2-general high-reaching questions and 2 random substance ones)
Originally Posted by sublimejeh
2) In medical testing (for example) as of late they're cutting down on questions for efficiency and finding the few questions that have the highest correlation to the thing tested for (for heart attacks they found 3 questions have the same precision as asking/testing for a 100 different ones)
Testosterone is an obvious one. Anyone on AAS who hasn't ever used testosterone? (very few people) Wouldn't this question alone get 99% of users? If anything, its a qualifying question. If the person tests negative on the testosterone (never used), then there isn't need to go much deeper. If he tests positive for the testosterone (testings goes deeper, when did you use, did you use anything else, etc)...
You're being contradictory...
The point of the polygraph is to test for things that can clear the system fast or there is no urine-test for.
I can't believe they're using a polygraph test to test for doping.
Well that's the point of the polygraph, DOH
As far as Urine tests, I don't know how they think they can use that to detect for let's say Synthetic Growth Hormone.
Between the testosterone question, the urine test and post-winning secondary polygraph... It should catch quite a huge amount of cheaters.
03-03-2009 02:59 AM
On another tangent, I truly feel sorry for people who cheat in natural bodybuilding. That's one sorry person if there ever was one. Why the heck would you go into the organization where its banned, when there's plenty of organizations that are not tested?
To win? Well, what POSSIBLE enjoyement could you get from that? That'd be like entering the special olympics and being happy you won. (not comparing naturals to special kids lol, I'm striving to be a great natural one day, just the advantage of being ON vs. being natural).
It's like, what achievement could you possibly get out of that? It boggles my mind.
The prize? As you know prizes/fame/recognition in bodybuilding are small (and even smaller in natural circles). So it makes absolutely no reason to me why anyone would want to cheat in a natural organization. Just go to the organizations that allow you to use whatever.
I love this page, lol:
03-03-2009 05:43 AM
I still think it's not efficient. Urine can't catch something like SGH. And what guarantee do we have that the polygraph test will..
Originally Posted by Alek
i'm not saying that polygraphs are not useful. They are, and so are urine tests. But I think when dealing with such chemical compounds, surely there's got to be something far more accurate out there.
03-03-2009 06:13 AM
i'm sorry, but the polygraph test is one of the most ridiculous methods for determining whether someone is lying and I can't believe our society still utilizes it.. it doesn't detect lies -- it records fluctuations in breathing patterns, blood pressure and heart rate (all of which can be drastically manipulated) which are then compared to what the patterns are "supposed" to look like when a person is known to be lying -- one polygrapher can come to a completely different conclusion than another -- polygraphers are evaluated on how many confessions they obtain and therefore hold an ulterior motive which comprises the legitimacy of the entire process.. they are not useless, but given the fact that they can put very innocent and honest people in a situation they do not deserve to be in, i am completely against their use.
This site is relevant to my interests.
03-03-2009 07:36 AM
yeah i feel sorry for guys that use banned substances and try to beat out guys that dont use them, thats sad, esp if they lose lol.
03-03-2009 09:04 AM
And your point would be?
Originally Posted by Red Dog
But, seriously, I get what you're saying, and I agree with it... and it still doesn't change anything. Polygraph testing isn't perfect ---> And?
We don't have any better tools in society, and its always used in combination with other tools.
IFBA just announced introducing blood-testing as well. So its urine, blood, and polygraph. And they have it done by WADA (the olympic testing organization).
I think its more of a psychological thing. Scaring people away from trying to cheat, much more so than actually catching them. I like IFBA's whole "hall of shame" page. It makes you think like 10 times longer before you decide to cheat if you know that if you're caught you'll get a photo posted and declared a loser in public etc...
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