Will you go see "Religulous"?

[Hurleyboy05]

Don't worry, poll is anonymous.

Here's the trailer:

 

[Omen]

Don't worry, poll is anonymous.

Here's the trailer:

Hmmmm.....A movie about delusional idiots....:think:

:icon_lol: Maybe I'll go watch that one and everytime he makes fun of one of those idiots I'll turn around and scream "you hear that you dumb f*ckers? you're idiots."......:icon_lol:

I was kidding, I'm not gonna waste time or money watching stupid sh*t, I can look out the window.....:hammer:

:smite:

 

[Omen]

:smite: CLICK ON IT AND REPENT!

 

[Zero V]

heh, more dribble for the theaters eh?

Why do people attack it so much? Because it scares them.

 

[Omen]

heh, more dribble for the theaters eh?

Why do people attack it so much? Because it scares them.

Maybe it just pisses us off !

:smite: :smite:

 

[Zero V]

and why is that? because people are happy and content with life for what is to you,no apparent reason other than a belief and faith?

fair warning OP, you start a thread with the word religion on here it gets ugly. Specifically you will see me and omen at it :fool2: as well as a couple others on each side.

I think its all in goodness though, I dont hold grudges. Although because of the last one there are 2 companies on here I wont purchase their products lol.

 

[Omen]

and why is that? because people are happy and content with life for what is to you,no apparent reason other than a belief and faith?

fair warning OP, you start a thread with the word religion on here it gets ugly. Specifically you will see me and omen at it :fool2: as well as a couple others on each side.

I think its all in goodness though, I dont hold grudges. Although because of the last one there are 2 companies on here I wont purchase their products lol.

In a way, you do make sense.

But I had problems with religion before, never seen anything good from it.

Restrictions, slave mentality, sheepism, hate, violence towards non religious people or other religions.

Religion and Laws are for people who can't control/regulate themselves and need "masters" to confine in and follow.

 

[mDeezy]

Bill Maher is hilarious IMO. I'll be seeing it.

 

[Zero V]

In a way, you do make sense.

But I had problems with religion before, never seen anything good from it.

Restrictions, slave mentality, sheepism, hate, violence towards non religious people or other religions.

Religion and Laws are for people who can't control/regulate themselves and need "masters" to confine in and follow.

sometimes yes, sometimes no. There are also those who abuse religion and create cults.

but I dont need someone to guide me, i take every sermon with a grain of salt, test it out so to be to the word.

every one has to find their path in life, I know mine, I know what the afterlife holds for me. But we each share different thoughts and mindsets in life.

I have seen religion fix so many problems, look at Haiti. It used to be a voodoo, human sacrificing country, and now its classified as christian, the people are being fed and clothed, a better leader is in control, etc.

we each have our own paths to follow, now when it comes to pre destination I dont know, i think its plays a hand in some events, but not in others.

but movies like that are stupid potshots by someone who is scared of something different. They are insecure with their own belief, so they try to disassemble and smash whats different.

 

[Dadof2]

In a way, you do make sense.

But I had problems with religion before, never seen anything good from it.

Restrictions, slave mentality, sheepism, hate, violence towards non religious people or other religions.

Religion and Laws are for people who can't control/regulate themselves and need "masters" to confine in and follow.

There are many folks who go to bed with food in their bellies, and medicine for their ailments because of people of faith. You don't see the good because you don't really want to.

As far as restrictions, slave mentality and so forth ask yourself a question: Historically what exist in the absence of religion? The answer is oppression. I don't think that anyone will accuse Stalin's Russia, or modern day China as being bastions of freedom and understanding. Yet, in these countries religion was forced far underground, and practicing a religion could get your imprisoned and killed. According to your worldview Stalinist Russia and modern day China should be the epicenter of freedom and enlightenment.

Equality does not exist in nature. There are differences in intelligence, strength, creativity, and every other measurable characteristic of human beings. If you get down to the brass tacks you can divide humans into the strong and the weak.

Equality only exist in the religious doctrine of some faiths (as in we are all God's children, do unto others, and so forth) In the absence of religious faith of any kind we will always see the strong dominate the weak. Keep in mind this does not necessarily equal the physically strong dominating the physically weak. It just means that there will always be one group of rulers and one group of serfs.

The idea that "all men are created equal" is a religious idea, and when people truly believe and practice this then it is harder to foster an environment where the strong dominate the weak.


As far as the topic of the thread, I generally don't go to the movies so I will not go and see Maher's new flick. I will however watch it when it releases on DVD.

 

[Irish Cannon]

Maybe I'd see it if it was done by some legitimately intelligent people, and not some Hollywood nut-job.

I saw Ben Stein's documentary "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" which I thought was fantastic. I'm a Christian guy, and I enjoy hearing what other people think, but not when it's poorly thought out rants.

Of course there are religious nutcases out there. I understand that. What this guy's trying to do is make ALL Christians look like religious nutcases.

 

[Manimalia]

There are many folks who go to bed with food in their bellies, and medicine for their ailments because of people of faith. You don't see the good because you don't really want to.

As far as restrictions, slave mentality and so forth ask yourself a question: Historically what exist in the absence of religion? The answer is oppression. I don't think that anyone will accuse Stalin's Russia, or modern day China as being bastions of freedom and understanding. Yet, in these countries religion was forced far underground, and practicing a religion could get your imprisoned and killed. According to your worldview Stalinist Russia and modern day China should be the epicenter of freedom and enlightenment.

Equality does not exist in nature. There are differences in intelligence, strength, creativity, and every other measurable characteristic of human beings. If you get down to the brass tacks you can divide humans into the strong and the weak.

Equality only exist in the religious doctrine of some faiths (as in we are all God's children, do unto others, and so forth) In the absence of religious faith of any kind we will always see the strong dominate the weak. Keep in mind this does not necessarily equal the physically strong dominating the physically weak. It just means that there will always be one group of rulers and one group of serfs.

The idea that "all men are created equal" is a religious idea, and when people truly believe and practice this then it is harder to foster an environment where the strong dominate the weak.


As far as the topic of the thread, I generally don't go to the movies so I will not go and see Maher's new flick. I will however watch it when it releases on DVD.

we can equate the bold words with religion for the sake of argument. anyways, you saying that secularism leads to oppression is false. one well-known example i can name, that we all would know, who practice peace and equality are buddhists. Not to mention an uncountable number of indigenous peoples worldwide. you're taking a particular and applying it to a whole, which is a fallacy.

and as for the next paragraph, attributes, or "strengths" come from experiences for all living creatures. for you to say that we are born either strong or weak implies that it's through a creator's choice, which is also a fallacy. without our senses, we would be nothing. if one were born unable to smell, touch, see, taste, or feel, they would be an animate-inanimate object. we gain our "strengths and weaknesses" through our environs and endeavors, nothing more. no stimuli/no response.

the idea that "all men are created equal" was NOT rooted in religion, especially a particular. it was written by men for men. religion, loosely from then on in, was given the boot, at least in political functions. that phrase means that all people would be treated equally to keep peace; they wanted to not suffery tyranny, quartering, and who knows what else from britain anymore. so there would be no turmoil in their own land among their own people with britain, as this was a very eventful, and i mean rebellious, time.

get it straight, mayn.

and me, yes, i'm going to see that flick, though i am sure the makers have biases of their own. heck, we all do.

 

[Hurleyboy05]

Here's an article and video I found at monstersandcritics.com:

Bill Maher talks 'Religulous' and the rise of Rationalism - Video
By M&C People Apr 8, 2008, 21:17 GMT

The new movie titled "Religulous" stars "Real Time" host Bill Maher, who along with Larry Charles produced the film. Maher investigates religion.

Maher is a self -proclaimed rationalist and atheist who has made no secret his about his disdain for all organized man-made religions and cults.

Larry Charles issued a statement about the movie:

"An old God, a very buff old God that lives in space decides to create the first man from earth dust, then makes a woman from that man’s rib. They get to live forever if they don’t eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, but the woman is tricked into eating a piece by a talking snake and all future humanity is cursed.

Or, how 'bout this one?

This same space God who lives in the sky and has power over everything decides he wants a son, so he impregnates a woman but she remains a virgin. And, the child can walk on water and raise the dead. But his father, the sky God, sends him on a suicide mission to save humanity. After he dies, he rises from the dead and flies into space to be with his father (who is also him.)

Greek myths? The latest installment of the “Lord of the Rings”? Disney’s new animated movie? No! These are the foundations of Western religion. The tenuous shaky belief systems that our entire civilization rests upon.

What do you believe, why do you believe it, and why do you need to believe it?

Can we be good without God? Is religion a calling or a mental illness? Were Jesus, Moses and Mohammed prophets and visionaries, or crackpot nut cases who today would be put away?

Is religion an obsessive-compulsive disorder?

Comedian, acerbic commentator, raconteur, skeptic, seeker Bill Maher and I set off in search of answers to these questions in a raunchy, rude, irreverent, outrageous, and shocking nonfiction film about the greatest fiction ever told.

Set to the rhythms of “Sympathy for the Devil” and “Jesus Walks,” from the Western Wall to the Vatican, from self-professed messiahs to self professed Pariahs, we will not only expose the hypocrisy and corruption in organized religion but the absurdly hilarious logic that holds it together.

We will talk to clergy, extremists, scholars, politicians, ex-cons, the man on the street and even the man upstairs (that's right, we interview God.)

The funny will be scary, the scary wildly funny. The crazy will seem sane and the sane absolutely and undeniably crazy. All lines are blurred. All bets are off. We will get inside, on top of, behind, and in front of religion."

 

[Manimalia]

Maybe I'd see it if it was done by some legitimately intelligent people, and not some Hollywood nut-job.

I saw Ben Stein's documentary "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" which I thought was fantastic. I'm a Christian guy, and I enjoy hearing what other people think, but not when it's poorly thought out rants.

Of course there are religious nutcases out there. I understand that. What this guy's trying to do is make ALL Christians look like religious nutcases.

i don't know you, irish. but i'm sure you haven't spent exhaustive hours looking into the life of Bill Maher. and i'm even more sure that you haven't matched intellect with him. well, fairly sure.

and his "poorly thought-out rants" are likely not that at all. they're likely very thought-out, so as to anger those with religion. and give the guarantee of humor to the secular. heck, it's really all we got. i guess that a lot of both will go see this film as a result of that tactic.

he's not trying to make all RELIGIONS look nuts, he's simply questioning them. you must admit that in a world where most everything is provable, the death of religion shouldn't come as a shock. but i guess if those who have faith guessed right, they'll be the lucky ones. me, i wish i would have been born into a family that had faith. it was beyond my control, though, i reckon.

 

[Manimalia]

heh, more dribble for the theaters eh?

Why do people attack it so much? Because it scares them.

i'm not afraid of your particular belief; i'm afraid i may be missing out on something that could be so much bigger than what you believe. or so much smaller. i just don't know. i grow tired of wondering where i come from. i have no room to fear of where i am going.

and by the way, you're afraid of us if we're afraid of you. not us, but the idea of us. faith has been/will be shaken for all people at sometime. it has to be. for if you were certain of your creator at all times, it would not be faith, which is a belief in/trust in/loyalty to God. and every man is with sin, and sin is being unloyal to your creator. and sin comes from putting yourself before God, which is denouncing him, or, breaking the treaty, so to speak.

you can be fairly certain. that is what faith is. but you must keep that word "fairly" in front of certain. don't discount the inevitable effect we have on you as well.

you know, you're born of a God and son. Who/what fathered them? and who/what fathered him/it? And how do we know if we were given these answers, heck, even instilled with these answers, that an outside party just used some hypnotism of some sort on us? And how do we know that the REAL test is for us to find reason in this Godfilled world (perhaps all the evidence that would suggest your side was merely planted to further seed out the faithies)? And it'll be US who go to a better place where there are a lot of cool/hot girls with long legs that wear pizza for clothes, and the pizza doesn't make you fat, and the beer is ever-flowing?

 

[Omen]

we can equate the bold words with religion for the sake of argument. anyways, you saying that secularism leads to oppression is false. one well-known example i can name, that we all would know, who practice peace and equality are buddhists. Not to mention an uncountable number of indigenous peoples worldwide. you're taking a particular and applying it to a whole, which is a fallacy.

and as for the next paragraph, attributes, or "strengths" come from experiences for all living creatures. for you to say that we are born either strong or weak implies that it's through a creator's choice, which is also a fallacy. without our senses, we would be nothing. if one were born unable to smell, touch, see, taste, or feel, they would be an animate-inanimate object. we gain our "strengths and weaknesses" through our environs and endeavors, nothing more. no stimuli/no response.

the idea that "all men are created equal" was NOT rooted in religion, especially a particular. it was written by men for men. religion, loosely from then on in, was given the boot, at least in political functions. that phrase means that all people would be treated equally to keep peace; they wanted to not suffery tyranny, quartering, and who knows what else from britain anymore. so there would be no turmoil in their own land among their own people with britain, as this was a very eventful, and i mean rebellious, time.

get it straight, mayn.

and me, yes, i'm going to see that flick, though i am sure the makers have biases of their own. heck, we all do.

Buddhism still has a "god" and they believe in "supernatural" powers/cycles.

Norway is Secular, there is no opression, Netherlands is secular, there is no oppression, Dadof2 is also taking "the worst" of "secularism" China and Russia, two f*cked up countries.

And not all men are created equal, rights wise, maybe, other than that, No.

Guns don't kill people, religion kills people :smite:

 

[whiskers]

If you want a good religion movie watch zeitgeistmovie.com

 

[Rick28]

The answer is no for me.

 

[Manimalia]

Buddhism still has a "god" and they believe in "supernatural" powers/cycles.

Norway is Secular, there is no opression, Netherlands is secular, there is no oppression, Dadof2 is also taking "the worst" of "secularism" China and Russia, two f*cked up countries.

And not all men are created equal, rights wise, maybe, other than that, No.

Guns don't kill people, religion kills people :smite:

Well, there is not an absolute creator for them. That's why I picked Buddhists.

And yes, not all men are equal. From birth, there are small genetic differences. But when we look at the minds of men, it all comes from what they do after they're conceived. Heck, even their bodies (I drink synthol).

That last sentence, I ain't touchin' it. hahah.

 

[joeflex73]

As an atheist, I'll watch it.

 

[Dadof2]

we can equate the bold words with religion for the sake of argument. anyways, you saying that secularism leads to oppression is false. one well-known example i can name, that we all would know, who practice peace and equality are buddhists. Not to mention an uncountable number of indigenous peoples worldwide. you're taking a particular and applying it to a whole, which is a fallacy.

and as for the next paragraph, attributes, or "strengths" come from experiences for all living creatures. for you to say that we are born either strong or weak implies that it's through a creator's choice, which is also a fallacy. without our senses, we would be nothing. if one were born unable to smell, touch, see, taste, or feel, they would be an animate-inanimate object. we gain our "strengths and weaknesses" through our environs and endeavors, nothing more. no stimuli/no response.

the idea that "all men are created equal" was NOT rooted in religion, especially a particular. it was written by men for men. religion, loosely from then on in, was given the boot, at least in political functions. that phrase means that all people would be treated equally to keep peace; they wanted to not suffery tyranny, quartering, and who knows what else from britain anymore. so there would be no turmoil in their own land among their own people with britain, as this was a very eventful, and i mean rebellious, time.

get it straight, mayn.

and me, yes, i'm going to see that flick, though i am sure the makers have biases of their own. heck, we all do.

I didn't say that secularism leads to oppression. Secularism doesn't have to lead to oppression, it certainly could, but so could religion. Atheism can and often does lead to oppression though.

Stalin's government was not secular, it was atheist
Modern day China is not secular, it too is atheist
America is a good example of a secular government.

If I wished I could load this post full of quotes from atheist with the common theme being "people of faith should not be allowed to do_________". Dawkins, Harris, and even Maher have all started sentences with those words. This attitude is found all over the works of atheist authors, and this attitude has been put into practice by atheist governments throughout history.

As far as being born strong or weak, I don't think I said or implied this. Remember I am not only talking about the physical attributes of people. For instance who are the strong and powerful in our country? Seeing as how far we as a species have come along the powerful people in our society are powerful due to wealth and status, neither of which necessarily are the result of genetics.

Paris Hilton - very "important", dumb as a bag of hammers

John McCain - could be president, old, arthritic and one foot in the grave

Barak Obama - could be president, probably benches 200 tops

Bill Gates - arguably one of the most powerful men on the planet, my 6 year old could kick his a$$

I am using humorous examples, but you get my point.

The strong today are the CEO's who can't run a company in the ground fast enough, whereas the weak are the ones who will pay for their (the CEO's) crimes.


Whether or not you or I believe that the founders of the US were religious men or not is irrelevant. I am certain that for every source that you can cite backing up your belief, I can cite one that will refute it.

What is glaringly obvious though is that our country was founded on Judeo-Christian thought. The phrase "all men are created equal" is at the very least agnostic in thought, and not at all atheist in nature (as any good atheist will tell you that we most certainly were not created).


John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

 

[Hurleyboy05]

This tends to be my favorite John Adams quote:

"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it." - John Adams

Think of the lives that could have been saved without all the holy wars/cleansings of our past. Very, very sad.

 

[Dadof2]

This tends to be my favorite John Adams quote:

"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it." - John Adams

Think of the lives that could have been saved without all the holy wars/cleansings of our past. Very, very sad.

Well, either John Adams was schizophrenic or he meant something else when he said this. Or perhaps you are unitentionally misquoting Mr. Adams, as I suspect that you pulled this gem off of an atheist website.

Here is the actual quote:


'Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"'"But in this exclamati[on] I should have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without Religion, this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell."

 

[Hurleyboy05]

Well, either John Adams was schizophrenic or he meant something else when he said this. Or perhaps you are unitentionally misquoting Mr. Adams, as I suspect that you pulled this gem off of an atheist website.

Here is the actual quote:


'Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"'"But in this exclamati[on] I should have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without Religion, this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell."

Actually, I "pulled this gem" from a study done in my history lecture at my private high school, several years back. It stuck in my mind as one of the most profound sentences I had ever come across. If you really think about it, just about every war is somehow religion driven (whether to eradicate it, or force it upon) So if religion itself had never been contrived, would these wars have happened? Would there be a "cause" to fight for? Sure, there's territory and money, but these are physical things that can be explained. You can't explain a holy war, it's just a feeling that is acted upon.

 

[Dadof2]

Actually, I "pulled this particular gem" from a study done in my history lecture at my private high school, several years back. It stuck in my mind as one of the most profound sentences I ever came across. If you really think about it, just about every war is somehow religion driven (whether to eradicate it, or force it upon) So if religion itself had never been created, would these wars have happened? Would there be a "cause" to fight for. Sure, there's territory and money, but these are physical things that can be explained. You can't explain a holy war, it's just a feeling that is acted upon.

No matter where the quote came from, the person who presented it to you did so with the intent of misquoting John Adams.

Your assertion that all wars are religous in nature is also quite incorrect. Wars are fought for resources. At best religion is used to motivate the masses to march to their deaths for the benefit of powerful men (who probably do not believe what they teach, how many Muslim Imam's join their young disciples in suicide missions?).

What you are doing here is ignoring the obvious benefits of religion while magnifying the negative, this is the initial reason why I jumped into this thread.

Using your, and Omen's logic I can make a case that science is the most dangerous entity known to man. Science has given us knives, swords, guns, bombs, chemical weapons, biological weapons, and even nuclear weapons. These weapons created by evil scientist have killed more people than religion ever has, and could potentially be the cause for the extinction of the human race.

Does anyone actually think that the preceeding statement is rational? Probably not, but is there an element of truth to it? Yes there is. Science is not evil, it saves far more lives than it takes, but if I had an anti-science agenda to push I could use this logic quite successfully. Science isn't evil, but could there exist an evil scientist?

However, this science argument that I just made mirrors the anti-religious argument that is so frequently parroted. People of all faiths have done far more good than evil. This of course ties into the point that nothing is in and of itself evil, and that anything can be used for good or evil.

 

[Manimalia]

I didn't say that secularism leads to oppression. Secularism doesn't have to lead to oppression, it certainly could, but so could religion. Atheism can and often does lead to oppression though.

Stalin's government was not secular, it was atheist
Modern day China is not secular, it too is atheist
America is a good example of a secular government.

If I wished I could load this post full of quotes from atheist with the common theme being "people of faith should not be allowed to do_________". Dawkins, Harris, and even Maher have all started sentences with those words. This attitude is found all over the works of atheist authors, and this attitude has been put into practice by atheist governments throughout history.

As far as being born strong or weak, I don't think I said or implied this. Remember I am not only talking about the physical attributes of people. For instance who are the strong and powerful in our country? Seeing as how far we as a species have come along the powerful people in our society are powerful due to wealth and status, neither of which necessarily are the result of genetics.

Paris Hilton - very "important", dumb as a bag of hammers

John McCain - could be president, old, arthritic and one foot in the grave

Barak Obama - could be president, probably benches 200 tops

Bill Gates - arguably one of the most powerful men on the planet, my 6 year old could kick his a$$

I am using humorous examples, but you get my point.

The strong today are the CEO's who can't run a company in the ground fast enough, whereas the weak are the ones who will pay for their (the CEO's) crimes.


Whether or not you or I believe that the founders of the US were religious men or not is irrelevant. I am certain that for every source that you can cite backing up your belief, I can cite one that will refute it.

What is glaringly obvious though is that our country was founded on Judeo-Christian thought. The phrase "all men are created equal" is at the very least agnostic in thought, and not at all atheist in nature (as any good atheist will tell you that we most certainly were not created).


John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress[/QUOTE/]


yeah, i had started to type something. got as far as the Dec. of Ind. and then i just backspaced. nothing to really say, except:

atheists are secular. secular is fundamental. my word covered a lot more ground.

you merely re-affirmed your position on the whole "strong/weak" factor. environs/endeavors bring stimuli which causes response. end.

the Dec. of Ind., yes, WAS written with words that reminded men of their creator, if they believed. no argument there.

you wrote all that for not much of anything. sounded clever, though.

 

[Hurleyboy05]

No matter where the quote came from, the person who presented it to you did so with the intent of misquoting John Adams.

I found this quote on my own during my history class. No one purposely misquoted this to me, especially someone at a PRIVATE high school as I mention above.

Your assertion that all wars are religous in nature is also quite incorrect. Wars are fought for resources. At best religion is used to motivate the masses to march to their deaths for the benefit of powerful men (who probably do not believe what they teach, how many Muslim Imam's join their young disciples in suicide missions?).

Heres some commonly known religiously driven wars of the past: The Muslim Conquests, the French Wars of Religion, the Crusades, the Reconquista, heck even the Jihad still fight for religious reasons today!

What you are doing here is ignoring the obvious benefits of religion while magnifying the negative, this is the initial reason why I jumped into this thread.

I am not ignoring the benefits of religion, only choosing not to focus on them (which is what many Christians seem to ONLY focus on) So, I bring up the other side.

Using your, and Omen's logic I can make a case that science is the most dangerous entity known to man. Science has given us knives, swords, guns, bombs, chemical weapons, biological weapons, and even nuclear weapons. These weapons created by evil scientist have killed more people than religion ever has, and could potentially be the cause for the extinction of the human race.

Did God not create these people in the beginning, knowing that this was going to be the outcome of his creation? If he is all knowing, and created the process of thought in man, then isn't he to blame for any and all wrong doing that has ever happened from the beginning of the earth??? Might sound a bit extreme but really stop and think about that one.

Does anyone actually think that the preceeding statement is rational? Probably not, but is there an element of truth to it? Yes there is. Science is not evil, it saves far more lives than it takes, but if I had an anti-science agenda to push I could use this logic quite successfully. Science isn't evil, but could there exist an evil scientist?

However, this science argument that I just made mirrors the anti-religious argument that is so frequently parroted. People of all faiths have done far more good than evil. This of course ties into the point that nothing is in and of itself evil, and that anything can be used for good or evil.

 

[b unit]

it's good to see omen and zero back together

you guys make a great team

how about you 2 do a road trip together, drive from NY to LA, non stop :lol:

 

[b unit]

i'll watch that movie online when it's avaliable, looks interesting.

 

[Omen]

it's good to see omen and zero back together

you guys make a great team

how about you 2 do a road trip together, drive from NY to LA, non stop :lol:

We can be drug buddies like "fear and loathing in las vegas"! :hammer:

We team up together and fight together, as one, for a divided country, Good and godless VS Evil and Religious.

:smite:

 

[Omen]

ATTENTION:

I am Omen, the son of god, but I'm really also god, no really. I want you all to go to church on sunday, where fashion shows will be held EVERY SUNDAY! You can even waste your money and donate it so the church can either take the money or give it to people who are too lazy to work! Also, your kids might get raped by their priest and filmed! sign them up for after school church "activities"....if you know what I mean!! and their chances of being the star in one of our movies INCREASES DRAMATICALLY! SIGN THEM UP TODAY!

I brought you the Crusades, KKK, 9/11, Beheadings, genocide, religious wars, oppression, fatwa's against cartoonists, Priest/child porn, burning women alive because they're witches and you never what else I will bring, stay tuned for more BLESSINGS FROM GOD!

I have the power to send you all to heaven and end ALL of your suffering, including little jessica that got raped and filmed in church, but ...it's a test! that's all! best of luck everyone....

[ame="http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=cqi5F5MqqTQ"]YouTube - very creepy, disturbing children's cartoon, banned from TV[/ame]

Yeah, god and religion really make a lot of sense......

Goodness comes from the person, not from an imaginary energy accumulation (god) or racist extremist teachings(religion).

To a FREE SECULAR SOCIETY!

 

[Dadof2]

I found this quote on my own during my history class. No one purposely misquoted this to me, especially someone at a PRIVATE high school as I mention above.

Well as I pointed out to you the quote that you presented was only partial. The entire quote, which was found in a letter from Adams to Jefferson, has a completely different context when read in its entirety


Heres some commonly known religiously driven wars of the past: The Muslim Conquests, the French Wars of Religion, the Crusades, the Reconquista, heck even the Jihad still fight for religious reasons today!

Or like I said religion is used as a way to motivate people to fight for people who they would not normally be persuaded to fight for. Why do you think the Catholic Church promised immediately entry into heaven to those who fought in the Crusades? There is absolutely no precedent within Christianity for "Holy War". The Catholic Church was quite aware of this, but this did not stop them from telling illiterate common people who could not afford or read a Bible otherwise.

I am not ignoring the benefits of religion, only choosing not to focus on them (which is what many Christians seem to ONLY focus on) So, I bring up the other side.

What is the bad side of Christianity? When Jesus was asked what was most important He replied "love God and love your neighbor". Where is the negative in this? Unfortunately men will do what they will, and if someone is going to commit an atrocity in the name of Christ who is at fault this man or the entire corporate body of the Christian faithful? This brings us back to my science analogy, does one bad scientist make science evil?



Did God not create these people in the beginning, knowing that this was going to be the outcome of his creation? If he is all knowing, and created the process of thought in man, then isn't he to blame for any and all wrong doing that has ever happened from the beginning of the earth??? Might sound a bit extreme but really stop and think about that one.

I have answered this question in another thread quite thoroughly (weren't you in Alaska for a while? You may have missed it). If you really want to open this can of worms again we can, but it will have to wait until I have more time to sit in front of this computer.

 

[Dadof2]

To a FREE SECULAR SOCIETY!

You already live in a free secular society. :fool2:

If you stated your opinions about God in a theocracy, like say Iran, your life would be in danger.


edit:

or malaysia

Malaysian blogger to be detained for two years: wife

 

[Omen]

You already live in a free secular society. :fool2:

If you stated your opinions about God in a theocracy, like say Iran, your life would be in danger.

or malaysia

A secular society where religion DOES influence A lot, including Politics, by not taxing churches, yeah......sure....fair secular society, I think not :hammer:

Trust me I lived/been to other countries, one where it was a threocracy, I know exactly what you're talking about because I personally faced problems over there, for me personally, America is the best place in the world, but that doesn't mean it's perfect.

I don't criticize my country because I hate it, but because I want to see it become better, I am not blinded by my patriotism that I can't see what's wrong.

But live anywhere else, I'm 99% sure the answer will be f**k NO!

 

[Dadof2]

A secular society where religion DOES influence A lot, including Politics, by not taxing churches, yeah......sure....fair secular society, I think not :hammer:

Trust me I lived/been to other countries, one where it was a threocracy, I know exactly what you're talking about because I personally faced problems over there, for me personally, America is the best place in the world, but that doesn't mean it's perfect.

I don't criticize my country because I hate it, but because I want to see it become better, I am not blinded by my patriotism that I can't see what's wrong.

But live anywhere else, I'm 99% sure the answer will be f**k NO!

There is a lot wrong with our country right now, but it stems from our leaders abandoning our Constitution more than anything else. There will never be a perfect country, because people are not perfect, but our country is pretty damned good.

 

[bryan4980]

sometimes yes, sometimes no. There are also those who abuse religion and create cults.

but I dont need someone to guide me, i take every sermon with a grain of salt, test it out so to be to the word.

every one has to find their path in life, I know mine, I know what the afterlife holds for me. But we each share different thoughts and mindsets in life.

I have seen religion fix so many problems, look at Haiti. It used to be a voodoo, human sacrificing country, and now its classified as christian, the people are being fed and clothed, a better leader is in control, etc.

we each have our own paths to follow, now when it comes to pre destination I dont know, i think its plays a hand in some events, but not in others.

but movies like that are stupid potshots by someone who is scared of something different. They are insecure with their own belief, so they try to disassemble and smash whats different.

You do realize that due to the fact at one point the people of Haiti were forced to practice Christianity they developed Santeria in which they use the names of Christian Saints in an effort to make it look like Christianity but is still closer to Voodoo.

 

[bryan4980]

i'm not afraid of your particular belief; i'm afraid i may be missing out on something that could be so much bigger than what you believe. or so much smaller. i just don't know. i grow tired of wondering where i come from. i have no room to fear of where i am going.

and by the way, you're afraid of us if we're afraid of you. not us, but the idea of us. faith has been/will be shaken for all people at sometime. it has to be. for if you were certain of your creator at all times, it would not be faith, which is a belief in/trust in/loyalty to God. and every man is with sin, and sin is being unloyal to your creator. and sin comes from putting yourself before God, which is denouncing him, or, breaking the treaty, so to speak.

you can be fairly certain. that is what faith is. but you must keep that word "fairly" in front of certain. don't discount the inevitable effect we have on you as well.

you know, you're born of a God and son. Who/what fathered them? and who/what fathered him/it? And how do we know if we were given these answers, heck, even instilled with these answers, that an outside party just used some hypnotism of some sort on us? And how do we know that the REAL test is for us to find reason in this Godfilled world (perhaps all the evidence that would suggest your side was merely planted to further seed out the faithies)? And it'll be US who go to a better place where there are a lot of cool/hot girls with long legs that wear pizza for clothes, and the pizza doesn't make you fat, and the beer is ever-flowing?

If it was truly faith and about believing why is it that the believers are scared of the non-believers? I know the answer I will get is that it is their duty to try to convert everyone and if they don't they are just as guilty or something like that. I would think that non-believers would have less of an issue with religion if the religious or believers just went about their business and if someone wants to believe they will. Granted some do this but too many do not. Which may in fact turn more away from religion. So could trying to convert others to Christianity actually be turning others away from Christianity and if so does that make you sinner because you are effectively keeping people from being saved.
BTW I do not intend to watch the movie it does not appear very entertaining.

 

[bryan4980]

Actually, I "pulled this gem" from a study done in my history lecture at my private high school, several years back. It stuck in my mind as one of the most profound sentences I had ever come across. If you really think about it, just about every war is somehow religion driven (whether to eradicate it, or force it upon) So if religion itself had never been contrived, would these wars have happened? Would there be a "cause" to fight for? Sure, there's territory and money, but these are physical things that can be explained. You can't explain a holy war, it's just a feeling that is acted upon.

You ever think that religion might just be an excuse for the war? I think it was more about power and control, using religion just made it easier to convince the masses of their "supposed" just cause.

 

[bigrobbierob]

I want to see it. I always enjoy it when someone takes the piss out of religeon.

 

[whiskers]

You ever think that religion might just be an excuse for the war? I think it was more about power and control, using religion just made it easier to convince the masses of their "supposed" just cause.

excellent comment.
you'd love zeitgeist

think about it:
What does every government want?
They want you to behave, and they want your money.
What does (almost) every relgion want?
They want you to behave, and they (forgive me)...they want your money.

If there is a policeman standing by, it is very unlikely that you'd do something wrong. But what if there arent any police around? What would stop you? (besides a conscience) an invisible man recording your every move for which you will be held accountable.

I by no means wish to offend anyone btw.
But would religion not be an excellent invention and tool for a government to control its populace?


another vid I would recommend for those interested in this thread is: "Why Wont God Heal Amputees?" its on youtube. its only ten minutes long.

 

[bryan4980]

excellent comment.
you'd love zeitgeist

think about it:
What does every government want?
They want you to behave, and they want your money.
What does (almost) every relgion want?
They want you to behave, and they (forgive me)...they want your money.

If there is a policeman standing by, it is very unlikely that you'd do something wrong. But what if there arent any police around? What would stop you? (besides a conscience) an invisible man recording your every move for which you will be held accountable.

I by no means wish to offend anyone btw.
But would religion not be an excellent invention and tool for a government to control its populace?


another vid I would recommend for those interested in this thread is: "Why Wont God Heal Amputees?" its on youtube. its only ten minutes long.

I agree with your use of the word almost, not all religions want your money and power. Your conscience shouldn't be the only thing stopping you from doing something wrong neither should religion, you should want to do the right thing because it is right or because it is the honorable thing to do. If you are doing it because you are practicing cya are you really doing the right thing?
Religion has already been used as a tool to control the peons and is still to some degree.
I'll have to check out that movie.

 

[Irish Cannon]

I think a lot of you would enjoy reading The Problem of Pain by CS Lewis

 

[glg]

I have seen religion fix so many problems, look at Haiti. It used to be a voodoo, human sacrificing country, and now its classified as christian, the people are being fed and clothed, a better leader is in control, etc.

Which Haiti are you talking about? The one wher gangs are roaming the streets, kidnapping, raping. Where an attempted coup is the game of the week?

Our founding fathers seperated church & state for a very good reason that still applies.

I can't think of one nation, that is even close to a theocracy (I include the Vatican city) , that is moral, ethical and concerned for it's citizens well being.

Now as for the movie I'll rent it when it comes out on DVD like I did Michael Moore's oieces and other similar psuedo-documentaries. I go to the movies for entertainment more than enlightment.

 

[whiskers]

By the way, Zeitgeist Addendum also comes out on friday

its gonna be a good day

 

[Hurleyboy05]

By the way, Zeitgeist Addendum also comes out on friday

its gonna be a good day

Not for the ...ahem... close minded community

 

[RobInKuwait]

I'm an atheist.

I probably won't see the movie. I try not to be militant about not believing in god. I used to be, but I find that when people find out I'm an atheist, it can be very intimidating and/or disturbing to people who are religious.

I actually appreciate many of the "family values" that religion often brings with it and find that they often coincide with my values. In my own head I'm in an unholy alliance with the religious right.....at least in politics and with family activities. :smite:

 

[whiskers]

I'm an atheist.

I probably won't see the movie. I try not to be militant about not believing in god. I used to be, but I find that when people find out I'm an atheist, it can be very intimidating and/or disturbing to people who are religious.

I actually appreciate many of the "family values" that religion often brings with it and find that they often coincide with my values. In my own head I'm in an unholy alliance with the religious right.....at least in politics and with family activities. :smite:

At times I can see positive things about religion, but the majority of the time it makes me want to foam from the mouth with fury haha.
(I live in Utah....)

I actually grew up mormon and almost went on a mission. But thanks to a bad ass philosophy professor, information I ran into by pure chance, and an open mind, I was able to free my head from my ass

 

[RobInKuwait]

At times I can see positive things about religion, but the majority of the time it makes me want to foam from the mouth with fury haha.
(I live in Utah....)

I actually grew up mormon and almost went on a mission. But thanks to a bad ass philosophy professor, information I ran into by pure chance, and an open mind, I was able to free my head from my ass

I think I would go crazy living in Utah....you're a better man than me.

I credit Ayn Rand. She was my little blue pill.

 

[Tyler1]

I'm an atheist.

I probably won't see the movie. I try not to be militant about not believing in god. I used to be, but I find that when people find out I'm an atheist, it can be very intimidating and/or disturbing to people who are religious.

I actually appreciate many of the "family values" that religion often brings with it and find that they often coincide with my values. In my own head I'm in an unholy alliance with the religious right.....at least in politics and with family activities. :smite:

Most athiests think they're smarter or took some gigantic leap in thought by having faith that there is no God. Most conversations about religion with an athiest end with them making some kind of statement about the other groups IQ.

 

[Tyler1]

ATTENTION:

I am Omen, the son of god, but I'm really also god, no really. I want you all to go to church on sunday, where fashion shows will be held EVERY SUNDAY! You can even waste your money and donate it so the church can either take the money or give it to people who are too lazy to work! Also, your kids might get raped by their priest and filmed! sign them up for after school church "activities"....if you know what I mean!! and their chances of being the star in one of our movies INCREASES DRAMATICALLY! SIGN THEM UP TODAY!

I brought you the Crusades, KKK, 9/11, Beheadings, genocide, religious wars, oppression, fatwa's against cartoonists, Priest/child porn, burning women alive because they're witches and you never what else I will bring, stay tuned for more BLESSINGS FROM GOD!

I have the power to send you all to heaven and end ALL of your suffering, including little jessica that got raped and filmed in church, but ...it's a test! that's all! best of luck everyone....

YouTube - very creepy, disturbing children's cartoon, banned from TV

Yeah, god and religion really make a lot of sense......

Goodness comes from the person, not from an imaginary energy accumulation (god) or racist extremist teachings(religion).

To a FREE SECULAR SOCIETY!

Wow, this is a disturbing post. .