FRL - Cost Comparison & The Anabolic Effect Part II

  1. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Royd The Noyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    5,193
    Answers
    0

    Post FRL - Cost Comparison & The Anabolic Effect Part II







    The Cost of Ultra 1-DHEA


    When ForeRunner Labs™ set out to create Alpha Mass we knew there were other options for Ultra 1-DHEA on the market. Consumers adamantly stated the price was just too high. We certainly agreed. But we also felt we could find a way to improve it even further and bring down the cost significantly. During our research we wanted to find a way to induce (increase) the enzymes necessary to create more efficient conversions. We were searching for a dead end. The vast majority of research on sex hormone enzymes is finding ways to decrease the same enzymes we were trying to increase. So while we didn’t find our diamond in the rough, we did find several things to improve “The Anabolic Effect.

    Pharmacokinetics

    Pharmacokinetics is a term used in the research of a substance’s action in the body when we consume that substance from an external source. You will often hear the terms used such as bioavailablity, area under the curve, peak time to concentration, half life, etc, which all fall under the realm of pharmacokinetics. Understanding the pharmacokinetics of prohormones is important in order to understand results. And as we move along you will see how different methods of prohormone administration (oral, lymphatic, orally disintegrating tablets, etc) have significantly different pharmacokinetics in the body.

    The Research

    One of the major drawbacks of the current DSHEA compliant prohormones is the limited research. However, we can utilize the existing research on their active steroid counter parts to understand how the pharmacokinetics of the current prohormones will act once inside the biological environment of your body. In addition, more recent research is available on the now banned prohormones that is also very applicable. A summary of each will be provided in the proceeding sections.

    Standard Oral Encapsulation





    The standard oral encapsulation is the most common delivery form of over the counter supplements you will find. It is simple, cheap, and depending on what’s inside often times very effective. However prohormones, and specifically 1-DHEA, 4-DHEA, & 19-norDHEA and their target hormones are heavily metabolized and excreted in a standard encapsulation.

    Let’s use 19-norAndrostenediol to illustrate the poor bioavailability of oral prohormones. As a brief overview, 19-norAndrostenediol is a one step precursor to 19-nortestosterone, a powerful muscle builder. Alpha Hard is 19-norDHEA a one step precursor to 19-norAndrostenediol.

    Researchers found that the oral bioavailability of 300mg’s of 19-norAndrostenediol when compared to an adjusted dose of nandrolone decanoate (50mg’s) was less than 1% (not adjusted for subject weight) (1) (2). This is why we use to see doses over 1 gram per day with standard oral 19-norAndrostenediol back in the early days of prohormones. And considering the new age prohormones (19-norDHEA) requires one additional conversion step the bioavialability is likely even lower.

    Orally Disintegrating Tablets



    Orally disintegrating tablets were the next generation of prohormones specifically designed to improve bioavailability and make prohormones more cost effective. The power of this delivery lies in the fact that it can avoid first pass metabolism. This is obtained by utilizing a cyclodextrin complex which enables it to pass through the oral mucosa and directly into the blood stream.

    Using the same example as we did for the oral encapsulation (19-norAndrostenediol), we can also determine the bioavailability of a cyclodextrin based orally disintegrating tablet.
    Researchers found that the orally disintegrating tablet bioavailability of 25mg’s of 19-norAndrostenediol when compared to an adjusted dose of nandrolone decanoate (50mg’s) was approximately 69% (not adjusted for subject weight) (1) (2) (3). That is significantly better than your typical oral capsule.

    Still there are some drawbacks to orally disintegrating prohormones. First, peak plasma levels fall off quickly, so dosing often is critical to a successful cycle. Second, the oral mucosa has a limited surface area, so it’s difficult to “megadose” orally disintegrating tablets. And third, prohormone users commonly feel that swallowing them is just as efficient, when in reality they will not avoid first pass metabolism unless they give each dose time to dissolve inside the mouth.

    Lipid Soluble Oral Prohormones (lymphatic)





    Lipid soluble prohormones are similar to orally disintegrating tablets because they also attempt to bypass first pass metabolism. They accomplish this very differently however. Fatty acid esters are attached to the prohormone molecule. In the case of ForeRunner Labs™ Ultra 1-DHEA, Ultra 4-DHEA, and Ultra 19-norDHEA we have attached the fatty acid ester known more commonly as the enanthate ester. This drastically increases the lipid solubility (how well it absorbs in fats) compared to an un-esterfied version of the same prohormone (DHEA LogP = 3.2, DHEA Enanthate LogP = 6.3).

    ForRunner Labs™ then dissolves the lipid soluble prohormone into an oil based carrier that contains sesame seed oil, medium chain triglycerides, conjugated linoleic acid, and ethoxylated sorbitan monooeleate. Together this process creates what is known as a Self Emulsifying Drug Delivery System (SEDDS). SEDDS systems have been shown to significantly improve the bioavailability of many drugs and supplements. For example:
    • Increased the bioavailability of exemestane (a.k.a. Aromasin®) 2.9 times (or a relative bioavailability increase of 287%). (4)
    • Increased the Cmax and AUC of curcumin 4.6 and 7.6 times, representing a large bioavailability increase. (5)
    • Increased the bioavailability of Vitamin E approximately 210 to 410% in humans. (6)
    So that leaves us with a lipid soluble prohormone in a SEDDS based system. But as you know ForeRunner Labs™ didn’t stop there. Berberine, rhizoma coptidis, and cobalt were added to increase bioavailability even further. These three supplements also work to drastically inhibit enzymes that break down the prohormone and render it useless. In a recent study berberine was shown to inhibit specific cyctochrome enzymes which enabled the tested drug to increase in bioavailability by approximately 40% (7).

    Together ForeRunner Labs™ has utilized several different pathways to increase the bioavailability of their prohormones. We do not have pharmacokinetic research on this type of formulation; however we believe the bioavailability to be similar to orally disintegrating tablets. In addition, you can use a much larger dose because it doesn’t carry the same limitations as orally disintegrating tablets. Below we have provided a price comparison chart, which includes estimated bioavailability and the cost per active milligram.




    Because of the limited research that’s currently available we will continue to follow up on any research regarding the pharmacokinetics of these prohormones and related compounds. Stay tuned for more on utilizing multiple forms (sublingual/lymphatic) to create the most efficient prohormone cycle.

    References

    1. Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry method for the analysis of 19-nor-4-androstenediol and metabolites in human plasma: application to pharmacokinetic studies after oral administration of a prohormone supplement. Torrado S, Segura J, Farré M, Ventura R. Barcelona, Spain. : Steroids., 2008, Vols. Aug;73(7):751-9.
    2. Pharmacokinetics of 19-nortestosterone esters in normal men. Belkien L, Schürmeyer T, Hano R, Gunnarsson PO, Nieschlag E. s.l. : J Steroid Biochem. , 1985, Vols. May;22(5):623-9.
    3. Quantitative determination of metabolic products of 19-norandrostenediol in human plasma using gas chromatography/mass spectrometry. Schrader Y, Thevis M, Schänzer W. Cologne, Germany : Drug Metab Dispos., 2006, Vols. Aug;34(8):1328-35.
    4. Oral bioavailability enhancement of exemestane from self-microemulsifying drug delivery system (SMEDDS). Singh AK, Chaurasiya A, Awasthi A, Mishra G, Asati D, Khar RK, Mukherjee R. Pradesh, India : AAPS PharmSciTech., 2009, Vols. 10(3):906-16.
    5. Enhanced Oral Bioavailability of Curcumin via a Solid Lipid-Based Self-Emulsifying Drug Delivery System Using a Spray-Drying Technique. Yan YD, Kim JA, Kwak MK, Yoo BK, Yong CS, Choi HG. College of Pharmacy, Yeungnam University. : Biol Pharm Bull., 2011, Vols. 34(8):1179-86.
    6. Improved bioavailability of vitamin E with a self emulsifying formulation. Julianto T, Yuen KH, Noor AM. University of Science Malaysia, Penang : Int J Pharm, 2000, Vols. Apr 25;200(1):53-7.
    7. Repeated administration of berberine inhibits cytochromes P450 in humans. Guo Y, Chen Y, Tan ZR, Klaassen CD, Zhou HH. People's Republic of China : Eur J Clin Pharmacol, 2011, Vol. Aug 26.
    8. The intracrine sex steroid biosynthesis pathways. Luu-The V, Labrie F. Laval University and Laval University Hospital Research Center (CRCHUL), Quebec, Canada : Progress in Brain Research, 2010, Vols. 181:177-92. PMID: 20478438 .
    9. The human kidney is a progesterone-metabolizing and androgen-producing organ. Quinkler M, Bumke-Vogt C, Meyer B, Bähr V, Oelkers W, Diederich S. Berlin, Germany : J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 2003, Vols. Jun;88(6):2803-9.
    10. Absolute bioavailability of testosterone after oral administration of testosterone-undecanoate and testosterone. Täuber U, Schröder K, Düsterberg B, Matthes H. s.l. : Eur J Drug Metab Pharmacokinet., 1986, Vols. Apr-Jun;11(2):145-9.



    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    Please LIKE FRL on Facebook


  2. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Royd The Noyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    5,193
    Answers
    0


    Part I can be found here for anyone that missed it:

    FRL - Cost Comparison & The Anabolic Effect
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    Please LIKE FRL on Facebook

  3. Registered User
    808rebel's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,079
    Answers
    0


    sweet write-up. Im looking forward to trying one of these out.
    -It's not about what you're doing, it's about how you're doing it.
    •   
       

  4. Board Sponsor
    Board Sponsor
    WhatsaRoid?'s Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    28
    Posts
    3,428
    Answers
    0


    Interesting
    Applied Nutriceuticals Representative
    www.appliednutriceuticals.com

    FACEBOOK FAN PAGE:
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Applie...ls/64122223218
  5. Registered User
    fightbackhxc's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    7,386
    Answers
    1


    Quote Originally Posted by WhatsaRoid? View Post
    Interesting
    Enjoying the write ups
  6. On my grind
    Board Sponsor
    3clipseGT's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  182 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    9,944
    Answers
    1


    Definitely going to be giving these a try at some point during the winter!
    E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns
  7. Registered User
    jbryand101b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    14,599
    Answers
    0


    good stuff.
  8. Registered User
    TheBGRigatoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,024
    Answers
    0


    Thanks for the write up Royd..
    fellas, make sure you check us out on our facebook fan page under ForeRunner Labs
    Advanced Muscle Science/ForeRunner Labs (East Coast Sales Manager)
    "The Strongest On The Market"
  9. Registered User
    TheDarkHalf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  198 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Age
    29
    Posts
    4,398
    Answers
    0


    hoping for a logging opportunity *fingers crossed*
  10. Registered User
    TheBGRigatoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,024
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    hoping for a logging opportunity *fingers crossed*
    nice..looking forward to it
    Advanced Muscle Science/ForeRunner Labs (East Coast Sales Manager)
    "The Strongest On The Market"
  11. Registered User
    MidwestBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,037
    Answers
    0


    Very intriguing read.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
    EvoMuse Rep | This is what we've been workin on... | Inspire to Evolve
  12. Registered User
    prider's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  145 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    72
    Answers
    0


    waitin' 4 some logs
  13. Registered User
    CopyCat's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  187 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Age
    33
    Posts
    6,262
    Answers
    0


    Very nice write-up and comparison.
    ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
    Strongest On The Market
    RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222
  14. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Royd The Noyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    5,193
    Answers
    0


    Just curious but what other information would you guys like to see write ups on? Some things we plan to bring out right now :

    17b - hsd - What are these enzymes, how do they work, and how they interact with several different prohormones.

    PH's and fatty meals - how much do ph's actually benefit from a fatty meal

    Other ideas?
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    Please LIKE FRL on Facebook

  15. Board Sponsor
    Board Sponsor
    Milas's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Age
    34
    Posts
    5,006
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Just curious but what other information would you guys like to see write ups on? Some things we plan to bring out right now :

    17b - hsd - What are these enzymes, how do they work, and how they interact with several different prohormones.

    PH's and fatty meals - how much do ph's actually benefit from a fatty meal

    Other ideas?
    Dosage and timing optimization

    Additional supplements to increase effectiveness / take advantage of enzyme inhibition
    NeedToBuildMuscle Representative / PowerChews Representative
    AgeForce Representative - www.ageforce.com for hGH Patches!
    Send me a PM with any questions about products & discount codes
  16. Registered User
    fightbackhxc's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    7,386
    Answers
    1


    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Dosage and timing optimization

    Additional supplements to increase effectiveness / take advantage of enzyme inhibition
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Serious Nutrition Solutions | Online Representative
    Growth Factor XT-GROW! Need Cycle Support? Check out Liver XT.
    Follow SNS on Facebook for more promos!
  17. Registered User
    808rebel's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,079
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    PH's and fatty meals - how much do ph's actually benefit from a fatty meal
    I'd definitely wanna read that.
    -It's not about what you're doing, it's about how you're doing it.
  18. Registered User
    MidwestBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,037
    Answers
    0


    All that have been suggested would be great reads and the fatty meals / timing are of particular interest.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
    EvoMuse Rep | This is what we've been workin on... | Inspire to Evolve
  19. Registered User
    CopyCat's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  187 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Age
    33
    Posts
    6,262
    Answers
    0


    And I'm looking forward to the 17b-hsd article.
    ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
    Strongest On The Market
    RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222
  20. Registered User
    TheBGRigatoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,024
    Answers
    0


    Waz up PEEPS? BigRigtoni is for hello to all
    Advanced Muscle Science/ForeRunner Labs (East Coast Sales Manager)
    "The Strongest On The Market"
  21. Pro Virili Parte
    Board Sponsor
    JudoJosh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Age
    29
    Posts
    8,795
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    hoping for a logging opportunity *fingers crossed*
    x2!!!
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  22. Registered User
    fightbackhxc's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    7,386
    Answers
    1


    Quote Originally Posted by TheBGRigatoni View Post
    Waz up PEEPS? BigRigtoni is for hello to all
    supppp big riggg
    Serious Nutrition Solutions | Online Representative
    Growth Factor XT-GROW! Need Cycle Support? Check out Liver XT.
    Follow SNS on Facebook for more promos!
  23. Registered User
    TheBGRigatoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,024
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    supppp big riggg
    living the dream Bro
    Advanced Muscle Science/ForeRunner Labs (East Coast Sales Manager)
    "The Strongest On The Market"
  24. Registered User
    fightbackhxc's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    7,386
    Answers
    1


    Quote Originally Posted by TheBGRigatoni View Post
    living the dream Bro
    at least one of us is hahaha.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions | Online Representative
    Growth Factor XT-GROW! Need Cycle Support? Check out Liver XT.
    Follow SNS on Facebook for more promos!
  25. Registered User
    TheBGRigatoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,024
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    at least one of us is hahaha.
    would not be without all your help cuz..
    Advanced Muscle Science/ForeRunner Labs (East Coast Sales Manager)
    "The Strongest On The Market"
  26. Board Sponsor
    Board Sponsor
    Milas's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Age
    34
    Posts
    5,006
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    x2!!!
    x3!!!!!!!
    NeedToBuildMuscle Representative / PowerChews Representative
    AgeForce Representative - www.ageforce.com for hGH Patches!
    Send me a PM with any questions about products & discount codes
  27. Registered User
    MrKleen73's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  204 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Age
    41
    Posts
    15,561
    Answers
    1


    Very interesting... Why every time I wanna go all natty someone intrigues me with a new and better PH???

    Kleen scrathes chin and ponders...
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Olympus Labs Rep - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/252598-kleen-olympus-labs.html
  28. Registered User
    TheBGRigatoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,024
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Very interesting... Why every time I wanna go all natty someone intrigues me with a new and better PH???

    Kleen scrathes chin and ponders...
    Don't u just hate that chit
    Advanced Muscle Science/ForeRunner Labs (East Coast Sales Manager)
    "The Strongest On The Market"
  29. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Royd The Noyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    5,193
    Answers
    0


    Should see a couple of logs popping up late next week hopefully. I want to get more here... Workin on it.
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    Please LIKE FRL on Facebook

  30. Registered User
    TheBGRigatoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,024
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Should see a couple of logs popping up late next week hopefully. I want to get more here... Workin on it.
    hope your feeling better Royd
    Advanced Muscle Science/ForeRunner Labs (East Coast Sales Manager)
    "The Strongest On The Market"
  31. Board Sponsor
    Board Sponsor
    Milas's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Age
    34
    Posts
    5,006
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Should see a couple of logs popping up late next week hopefully. I want to get more here... Workin on it.
    WORK HARDER!!!
    NeedToBuildMuscle Representative / PowerChews Representative
    AgeForce Representative - www.ageforce.com for hGH Patches!
    Send me a PM with any questions about products & discount codes
  32. Registered User
    oufinny's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  218 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    32
    Posts
    5,941
    Answers
    0


    I am really curious about this 19-nor product, is this supposed to be a lot like the dienelone products out now or vastly different? What kind of shutdown are you looking at from this? I like the science, nice to see it is not ridiculously priced either.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
  33. Registered User
    MrKleen73's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  204 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Age
    41
    Posts
    15,561
    Answers
    1


    Quote Originally Posted by TheBGRigatoni View Post
    Don't u just hate that chit
    YES and NO, I love it because I said the only stuff I will mess with from now on will be DHEA based products, and well... I think you know what I'm saying.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Olympus Labs Rep - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/252598-kleen-olympus-labs.html
  34. Registered User
    TheBGRigatoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,024
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    YES and NO, I love it because I said the only stuff I will mess with from now on will be DHEA based products, and well... I think you know what I'm saying.
    MANIMAL
    Advanced Muscle Science/ForeRunner Labs (East Coast Sales Manager)
    "The Strongest On The Market"
  35. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Royd The Noyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    5,193
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    I am really curious about this 19-nor product, is this supposed to be a lot like the dienelone products out now or vastly different? What kind of shutdown are you looking at from this? I like the science, nice to see it is not ridiculously priced either.
    It's quite a bit different than dienelone products on paper. But shutdown is probably similar as they both bind to the AR to a high degree. The results will be fairly dry muscle gains, good joint health, and awesome recovery.
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    Please LIKE FRL on Facebook

  36. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Royd The Noyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    5,193
    Answers
    0


    Deserving of a bump now that Alpha Bulk is out. Many of the same concepts apply to Alpha Bulk.
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    Please LIKE FRL on Facebook

  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. FRL - Cost Comparison & The Anabolic Effect
    By Royd The Noyd in forum Forerunner Labs
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-05-2011, 09:56 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-13-2010, 02:42 PM
  3. CEL FORMESTANE Dosage for anabolic effect?
    By Ubiyca in forum Supplements
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-11-2009, 10:21 PM
  4. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-07-2008, 11:03 AM
  5. Cost comparison of cutting supps
    By jweave23 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-04-2003, 01:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in