New to anabolics - which should be my first?

[rsCT]

I've been lifting heavy for the past two years, seeing minimal results. I think overall I've gained about 3-4lbs, which I'm pretty sure is muscle. I eat like a horse on a regular basis hoping this will help (even continuing to increase by 250cals every few weeks).

I would really like to try a cycle of an anabolic steroid but I have no idea where to begin. I've done some research on my own but haven't come up with much. Although, I have seen some talk about Anavar being a good choice for women.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on what you think might be a good fit for me.
I'm 5'3, 123lbs and I'm hoping to put on a decent amount of muscle to compete in fitness or BB. Thanks!

 

[jakellpet]

I would run with Neovar and, erm . . . LHJO? That'll get you jacked!'



GICH!

 

[BestHomeGym]

Definitely LHJO Stacked with Neovar and Trib... If that won't get you jacked, nothing will

 

[Rosie Chee]

I've been lifting heavy for the past two years, seeing minimal results. I think overall I've gained about 3-4lbs, which I'm pretty sure is muscle. I eat like a horse on a regular basis hoping this will help (even continuing to increase by 250cals every few weeks).

I would really like to try a cycle of an anabolic steroid but I have no idea where to begin. I've done some research on my own but haven't come up with much. Although, I have seen some talk about Anavar being a good choice for women.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on what you think might be a good fit for me.
I'm 5'3, 123lbs and I'm hoping to put on a decent amount of muscle to compete in fitness or BB. Thanks!

If you're not gaining you're:
a. NOT eating enough, period, or
b. Not training appropriately.

I am not advocating hormonal use re females, but as far as compounds for females determined to use, the only ones I would recommend are Anavar, Furazadrol, and Winni-V/Winstrol. The dosage is a lot less than that recommended for a male. Sides WILL still occur, albeit not as harsh as if using other compounds, and ALL precautions (aside from those related to 'shutdown' - since a female will not do so) should still be taken.

I think that you should honestly reassess your nutrition and training, as what you have been doing has obviously not been working. I also first recommend using natural Growth Hormone/Testosterone boosters re results, especially if you have been using nothing but the basics for the last 2 years; there's plenty of products that, in conjunction with the appropriate nutrition ad training will get you results (for example, I can gain 3-4lb of lean body mass in a few weeks using only NATURAL products). Give yourself more time before you consider hormonals.

As far as competing, with your statistics Fitness right now would be fine. Figure would also be compatible re competition options. If you want to compete as a bodybuilder re Physique, then a few more years re training and doing everything properly is needed re size.


~Rosie
Team APPNUT

 

[rsCT]

Thanks everyone for your response.

Rosie-what would you recommend for natural boosters? I am wary of trying anabolics so maybe this would be a good first step. Thanks!

 

[Antigravity]

Thanks everyone for your response.

Rosie-what would you recommend for natural boosters? I am wary of trying anabolics so maybe this would be a good first step. Thanks!

I would not recommend anything for a woman that is a test booster because most test boosters are designed on the logic of increasing LH which in turn will increase test output. However in females, an increase in LH would result in an increase of FSH, and estrogen production...

Additionally - diet is important, but its not necessarily quantity, actually its quality of nutrients you consume.

Best,

 

[Rosie Chee]

Thanks everyone for your response.

Rosie-what would you recommend for natural boosters? I am wary of trying anabolics so maybe this would be a good first step. Thanks!

Definitely a better choice. And I recommend a Growth Hormone/Testosterone boosting stack, since females' hypertrophy and leanness occurs regardless of Testosterone levels and more as a result of Growth Hormone levels. You can use may Testosterone boosters and all should work ell enough for you, provided that they are non-hormonal. So far my favourite stack is Activate Xtreme/Drive/IGF-2, and I got awesome results from it.

I would not recommend anything for a woman that is a test booster because most test boosters are designed on the logic of increasing LH which in turn will increase test output. However in females, an increase in LH would result in an increase of FSH, and estrogen production...

Additionally - diet is important, but its not necessarily quantity, actually its quality of nutrients you consume.

Best,

Unless you're a female who has used various Testosterone boosters and had weekly bloods taken that show elevated Estrogen levels, then this is OPINION. I AM a female who has used myriad Testosterone boosters and have had weekly bloods for the last 4 years and my Estrogen levels have NEVER been elevated.

~Rosie
Team APPNUT

 

[Antigravity]

Unless you're a female who has used various Testosterone boosters and had weekly bloods taken that show elevated Estrogen levels, then this is OPINION. I AM a female who has used myriad Testosterone boosters and have had weekly bloods for the last 4 years and my Estrogen levels have NEVER been elevated.

Team APPNUT

Yes and Yes to both your assumptions regarding me(female) + my supplementation experience.

And boosters work as LH and LHRH agonists.

Consider HCG- men use it to stimulate testosterone production.
HCG is a fertility drug for women to stimulate ovulation.
Tribulus/Tongkat Ali et al - all work in the same fashion....

mcb[dot]berkeley[dot]edu/courses/mcb135e/fsh-lh[dot]html

en[dot]wikipedia[dot]org/wiki/Gonadotropin-releasing_hormone

humrep[dot]oxfordjournals[dot]org/cgi/content/abstract/15/9/1965

Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH), also known as Luteinizing-hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) and luliberin, is a tropic peptide hormone responsible for the release of FSH and LH from the anterior pituitary. GnRH is synthesized and released from neurons within the hypothalamus.

FSH and LH
FSH and LH in Females and Males


FSH

LH
Female

* stimulates ovary to produce steroids
o ovary will produce estradiol during follicular phase and progesterone during luteal phase
* surge at midcycle, with LH, triggers ovulation



* stimulates ovary to produce steoroids
* surge at midcycle triggers ovulation
o remember, luteinizing hormone turns the follicle into the corpeus luteum by triggering ovulation

Male

* stimulates Sertoli cells to produce androgen-binding protein (ABP), thereby stimulating spermatogenesis
* FSH also stimulates Sertoli cells to produce inhibin, which provides negative feedback to the anterior pituitary to decrease FSH secretion



* stimulates Leydig cells to produce testosterone
o testosterone provides negative feedback to anterior pituitary and hypothalamus

In the female:

Estrogen:

* Negative feedback:
o occurs during follicular phases when estrogen levels are still low.
* Postive feedback:
o occurs at high concentrations near the end of the follicular phase, estrogen becomes a positive inducer of the anterior pituitary
o positive feedback triggers the anterior pituitary to release more FSH and LH
o more FSH and LH cause the ovary to produce more estrogen
o the ensuing LH surge is responsible for ovulation

Progesterone:

* stimulate secretory and vascular activity of the endometrium, preparing for implantation of an embryo
* secreted by the corpus luteum, after ovulation
* when corpus luteum regresses, progresterone levels fall
o new vasculature in endometrium regresses and the tissue sloughs off.

Below is a medical excerpt expressing what GnRH agonists do to women....

Use of a single bolus of GnRH agonist triptorelin to trigger ovulation after GnRH antagonist ganirelix treatment in women undergoing ovarian stimulation for assisted reproduction, with special reference to the prevention of ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome: preliminary report: Short communication
J. Itskovitz-Eldor,,, S. Kol and B. Mannaerts

1 Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Rambam Medical Center, 2 Faculty of Medicine, Technion-Israel Institute of Technology, Haifa, Israel and 3 NV Organon, Oss, The Netherlands

A new treatment option for patients undergoing ovarian stimulation is the gonadotrophin-releasing hormone (GnRH) antagonist protocol, with the possibility to trigger a mid-cycle LH surge using a single bolus of GnRH agonist, reducing the risk of developing ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome (OHSS) in high responders and the chance of cycle cancellation. This report describes the use of 0.2 mg triptorelin (Decapeptyl®) to trigger ovulation in eight patients who underwent controlled ovarian hyperstimulation with recombinant FSH (rFSH, Puregon®) and concomitant treatment with the GnRH antagonist ganirelix (Orgalutran®) for the prevention of premature LH surges. All patients were considered to have an increased risk for developing OHSS (at least 20 follicles >=11 mm and/or serum oestradiol at least 3000 pg/ml). On the day of triggering the LH surge, the mean number of follicles >=11 mm was 25.1 ± 4.5 and the median serum oestradiol concentration was 3675 (range 2980–7670) pg/ml. After GnRH agonist injection, endogenous serum LH and FSH surges were observed with median peak values of 219 and 19 IU/l respectively, measured 4 h after injection. The mean number of oocytes obtained was 23.4 ± 15.4, of which 83% were mature (metaphase II). None of the patients developed any signs or symptoms of OHSS. So far, four clinical pregnancies have been achieved from the embryos obtained during these cycles, including the first birth following this approach. It is concluded that GnRH agonist effectively triggers an endogenous LH surge for final oocyte maturation after ganirelix treatment in stimulated cycles. Our preliminary results suggest that this regimen may prove effective in triggering ovulation and could be said to prevent OHSS in high responders. The efficacy and safety of such new treatment regimen needs to be established in comparative randomized studies.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Yes and Yes to both your assumptions regarding me(female) + my supplementation experience.

And boosters work as LH and LHRH agonists...

That's all very well. But have you had the BLOODWORK to prove this? Studies and theory do not always carry over into real life and real people. I use myself as an example. As I said, my Estrogen levels have NEVER been elevated and I have used many Testosterone boosters. In saying that, everyone reacts differently to different products and therefore it COULD happen for some individuals. But it is inaccurate to say that Testosterone boosters will do that for every female that uses them.

~Rosie
Team APPNUT

 

[EasyEJL]

Consider HCG- men use it to stimulate testosterone production.
HCG is a fertility drug for women to stimulate ovulation.

HCG action is closest to an artificial source of LH, it does not increase natural production of LH.

Tribulus/Tongkat Ali et al - all work in the same fashion....

Not even close. Quite different than HCG. Fadogia is the only only one that acts similarly.

 

[Antigravity]

HCG action is closest to an artificial source of LH, it does not increase natural production of LH.

Not even close. Quite different than HCG. Fadogia is the only only one that acts similarly.

HCG is used in women to induce ovulation.

Additionaly: It would be foolish for a woman to use an LH agonist, or an LH -analogue to stimulate testosterone, as the female system doesnt work that way.

Testosterone in females comes from the adrenal cortex. Thus something like DHEA would be more useful, to "boost" test levels.

 

[Antigravity]

That's all very well. But have you had the BLOODWORK to prove this? Studies and theory do not always carry over into real life and real people. I use myself as an example. As I said, my Estrogen levels have NEVER been elevated and I have used many Testosterone boosters. In saying that, everyone reacts differently to different products and therefore it COULD happen for some individuals. But it is inaccurate to say that Testosterone boosters will do that for every female that uses them.

~Rosie
Team APPNUT

Im not doubting your personal results... However you cant use your anecdotal experience as a premise for objective information.
Additionally I never stated that I had issues with estrogen- I was only relaying information of possible side effects. Women need to inform themselves - more than just by word of mouth....

Additionally- please show evidence (non -anecdotal) that Test boosters in women do in fact have the same endocrinological effects you are supporting.

 

[Knowbull]

Although its not considered an anabolic per se, DHEA is considered safe and would be a good place to start at 25 mgs daily pre-workout. At that dose it wont jack your hormones around too much and gains can still be realized. Other than that, low dose Anavar has been shown safe for women. JMO

 

[rsCT]

I do have low estrogen levels, indicated by blood testing. My doctor has suggested I remain on birth control but I chose not to since I don't like the way I feel on the medication. So I guess I can't be too sure how I'll respond to natural test boosters.

If I were to go the Anavar route, are there reputable companies online to buy from? I know it can be pricey. I have seen on some sites that they require a minimum purchase (around $200) but I don't want to buy a ton right off the bat.

 

[Antigravity]

If I were to go the Anavar route, are there reputable companies online to buy from? I know it can be pricey. I have seen on some sites that they require a minimum purchase (around $200) but I don't want to buy a ton right off the bat.

asking this is a big no-no....

 

[rsCT]

I was asking that as a general question, not - can you supply me with names and web addresses.

 

[Antigravity]

I was asking that as a general question, not can you supply me with names and web addresses.

I know...but, read the board rules regarding your question.

 

[rsCT]

You're right. I guess that was a bit border-line on my part

 

[EasyEJL]

anavar is one of the hardest to find a legitimate supplier for

 

[rsCT]

anavar is one of the hardest to find a legitimate supplier for

I have heard the same. Well, looks like I have a little more homework to do before deciding on anything. I really appreciate all of the replies.

 

[EasyEJL]

If you can find true pharmaceutical, its probably worth it. if its underground, its moderately unlikely that its actually anavar

 

[Rosie Chee]

Im not doubting your personal results... However you cant use your anecdotal experience as a premise for objective information.
Additionally I never stated that I had issues with estrogen- I was only relaying information of possible side effects. Women need to inform themselves - more than just by word of mouth....

Additionally- please show evidence (non -anecdotal) that Test boosters in women do in fact have the same endocrinological effects you are supporting.

I am in support of females being fully informed of all decisions that they make re supplementation, nutrition, and training, etc., as there is far too much INaccurate information and mindsets out there in relation to all areas.

My comment "Studies and theory do not always carry over into real life and real people" was not in reference to any particular study. It was saying that, regardless of theory, theory, if it is available, does not always transfer. As for studies, you are capable of looking for yourself, if you are so determined to advocate against Testosterone boosters for women.


~Rosie
Team APPNUT

 

[Antigravity]

I am in support of females being fully informed of all decisions that they make re supplementation, nutrition, and training, etc., as there is far too much INaccurate information and mindsets out there in relation to all areas.

My comment "Studies and theory do not always carry over into real life and real people" was not in reference to any particular study. It was saying that, regardless of theory, theory, if it is available, does not always transfer. As for studies, you are capable of looking for yourself, if you are so determined to advocate against Testosterone boosters for women.


~Rosie
Team APPNUT

Im not advocating against any supplements. Actually- I think there are a myriad of supplements that women overlook due to the sheer amount of inaccurate/nonapplicable information.
I understand that your contributions to this site are via logging supplements- to present an open-minded platform, encouraging women in safe and openminded supplementation.
I have the same goal- to inform women of the multitude of possibilities in female supplementation, however a lot of supplements are designed with men's endocrine systems in mind, and although there is a lot of information you can apply to women as well, there are certain aspects regarding using supplements + the endocrine that a woman needs to educate herself.

DHEA for example aromatizes in a man, however in a woman produces an increase in testosterone.

 

[dpfisher]

I don't want to hijack this thread too bad but is there some reason you don't hear about women using GH/IGF more? If I was a woman that's probably what I would do since I wouldn't want the androgenic sides.

 

[EasyEJL]

a number use GH

 

[jakellpet]

I don't want to hijack this thread too bad but is there some reason you don't hear about women using GH/IGF more? If I was a woman that's probably what I would do since I wouldn't want the androgenic sides.

agreed. This would be a far safer route for women. I would love to see a female run a GH/IGF log on AM.

 

[rsCT]

I don't want to hijack this thread too bad but is there some reason you don't hear about women using GH/IGF more? If I was a woman that's probably what I would do since I wouldn't want the androgenic sides.

It's interesting that you mention that. I've been reading about GH/IGF being used as an alternative and women responding really well. I guess it's another thing on my list to look in to more.

 

[Irish Cannon]

Sounds like you just really need to train harder. If you actually do "eat like a horse" then there is no reason you shouldn't be growing unless your training just isn't up to par.

In addition, if you were, again, "eating like a horse" and not gaining fat OR muscle, chances are you're not eating as much as you thought. If you were stimulating your muscle tissue enough, you'd be adding muscle. If you were NOT stimulating your muscle tissue enough, you would more likely be packing on fat.

Adjust your training. Adjust your diet. Take an herbal test booster if you want. Stay away from the anabolics.