de-training a muscle?

[dertynasty]

Since this is bodybuilding, where people strive for the most aesthetically pleasing body, and where peoples main goals as bodybuilders are to be as symmetrical and proportional as possible, does there ever come a time where people would feel the need to de-train a muscle in order lose a little size so they can be more proportional?

I have realized in my training recently that my main reason for lack of growth in many if not all areas was because of the mind-muscle connection that I did not have. However my chest has always been larger than any muscle in my body, and I realized it was because i have a great mind muscle connection with it.

My chest is now significantly overpowering the rest of my body and looks un-proportional. People tell me it looks like i have tits or boobs simply because of the fact that the rest of my body isnt up to par with my chest. I am busting my ass very hard to try to get my other body parts to catch up but my arms and shoulders are very stubborn to grow, and i truthfully believe it is because i have a horrible mind muscle connection with them which I am working on improving.

So my question is, would it be wise to start to de-train my chest with very little and lite work, or simply no work at all until my body is proportional again? Also what are other good ways to get my shoulders and arms to respond like crazy? Oh and im currently on a slightly modified HST and have been doing it for 2 cycles now. Thanks guys.



btw... please dont judge me by my avatar, that was post workout and i know how to pose to make myself look best. Also my chest has grown since then.

 

[Rodja]

I would just reduce the volume you currently have. That will be enough to stave off muscle loss, but enough to keep the muscle strong.

As far as bringing up a lagging part, I like to alternate between training the muscle 1x/wk and 2x/wk. Obviously, the intensity will have to be reduced on the 2x/wk sessions, but this is will increase the overload on the muscle and provise a new stimulus for growth. Also, make sure to really focus on the eccentric portion of every lift.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I would just reduce the volume you currently have. That will be enough to stave off muscle loss, but enough to keep the muscle strong.

As far as bringing up a lagging part, I like to alternate between training the muscle 1x/wk and 2x/wk. Obviously, the intensity will have to be reduced on the 2x/wk sessions, but this is will increase the overload on the muscle and provise a new stimulus for growth. Also, make sure to really focus on the eccentric portion of every lift.

I agree. I employ a DC-esque training method, and utilize Gironda movements, famous for their ability to 'shape' muscle. I'm experiencing significant gains in strength, adjacent with proportional muscle gains that I never experienced with DC previously. In this program, only one of the 2x per week training sessions are intense (3-6 reps, @ 85% 1RM), with the other focusing on Gironda movements with extreme mind to muscle connection.

If it helps, I literally focus myself between a set - I look forward, envision the muscle I am working, and will myself to another type of intensity. With mind-to-muscle connection, for aesthetic purposes, you need to have channeled and extremely controlled intensity, qualitatively different than the "I'm going to ****ing kill this DL" intensity.

 

[dertynasty]

I agree. I employ a DC-esque training method, and utilize Gironda movements, famous for their ability to 'shape' muscle. I'm experiencing significant gains in strength, adjacent with proportional muscle gains that I never experienced with DC previously. In this program, only one of the 2x per week training sessions are intense (3-6 reps, @ 85% 1RM), with the other focusing on Gironda movements with extreme mind to muscle connection.

If it helps, I literally focus myself between a set - I look forward, envision the muscle I am working, and will myself to another type of intensity. With mind-to-muscle connection, for aesthetic purposes, you need to have channeled and extremely controlled intensity, qualitatively different than the "I'm going to ****ing kill this DL" intensity.

Yes mullet, this is exactly what I have been doing recently. Before a set I will imagine the muscle that I am trying to hit doing all the work. I focus very hard on that muscle and make sure that I am not just moving the weight from point A to point B but that I am feeling that muscle contract the whole way through and squeezing it as hard as I can at the peak. This is very new to me and is taking me back to when I was first beginning to lift and I used to have a trainer that would make me go so slow with lighter weights and pause at the peak contraction. He actually made my lats begin to grow because I was not able to "feel them" before he trained me. So now I am going back and dropping all the weights in order to establish a strong mind to muscle connection.

Body building is definitely not about weight lifting, they are two seperate things all together. I can curl 100 lbs but my arms are not 18 inches as they should be if I am curling that weight. Im not saying strength isnt important, its just the way you go about it.

So i think im going to continue training chest the same, but just try much harder on my other lagging parts. Why bring down something that I'm obviously doing well on. I just wish it was a Tad bit smaller.

 

[Rodja]

Yes mullet, this is exactly what I have been doing recently. Before a set I will imagine the muscle that I am trying to hit doing all the work. I focus very hard on that muscle and make sure that I am not just moving the weight from point A to point B but that I am feeling that muscle contract the whole way through and squeezing it as hard as I can at the peak. This is very new to me and is taking me back to when I was first beginning to lift and I used to have a trainer that would make me go so slow with lighter weights and pause at the peak contraction. He actually made my lats begin to grow because I was not able to "feel them" before he trained me. So now I am going back and dropping all the weights in order to establish a strong mind to muscle connection.

Body building is definitely not about weight lifting, they are two seperate things all together. I can curl 100 lbs but my arms are not 18 inches as they should be if I am curling that weight. Im not saying strength isnt important, its just the way you go about it.

So i think im going to continue training chest the same, but just try much harder on my other lagging parts. Why bring down something that I'm obviously doing well on. I just wish it was a Tad bit smaller.

Kinda arbitrary don't you think?? I do sets with 115 and my arms are maybe 16".

 

[CryingEmo]

Kinda arbitrary don't you think?? I do sets with 115 and my arms are maybe 16".

Yeah, I curl 135 x 10-12, 155 5-6, and My arms are 17 cold...

 

[arizonanewbie]

Yeah, I can F@#$ for three straight days and my coque is only 3". Strength and size are clearly not directly proportional.

 

[EmAzing]

Since this is bodybuilding, where people strive for the most aesthetically pleasing body, and where peoples main goals as bodybuilders are to be as symmetrical and proportional as possible, does there ever come a time where people would feel the need to de-train a muscle in order lose a little size so they can be more proportional?

So my question is, would it be wise to start to de-train my chest with very little and lite work, or simply no work at all until my body is proportional again? Also what are other good ways to get my shoulders and arms to respond like crazy?

Are there different approaches to decreasing ( or reshaping) the size of a muscle in men vs women?

For example, I had a trainer who used the technique doing something like 200 free standing lunges with no weights to reduce the size of quads- basically, burn them out.


It seems to be effective for her, but I was curious on any other experiences on this.

 

[Rodja]

Are there different approaches to decreasing ( or reshaping) the size of a muscle in men vs women?

For example, I had a trainer who used the technique doing something like 200 free standing lunges with no weights to reduce the size of quads- basically, burn them out.


It seems to be effective for her, but I was curious on any other experiences on this.

That is basically switching the focus to other muscle fibers within the muscle. Instead of focusing on increasing the size of the Type IIa and Type IIx (which is usually the case with bodybuilding), that is designed to stress the Type I fibers (aka the endurance or "red" fiber).

 

[EmAzing]

That is basically switching the focus to other muscle fibers within the muscle. Instead of focusing on increasing the size of the Type IIa and Type IIx (which is usually the case with bodybuilding), that is designed to stress the Type I fibers (aka the endurance or "red" fiber).

wow Rodja, thank you! That's awesome to know!

How can I learn more about this, and design a workout to focus on certain aspects using this technique?

 

[Rodja]

wow Rodja, thank you! That's awesome to know!

How can I learn more about this, and design a workout to focus on certain aspects using this technique?

Do a google search on muscle fiber types.

Quick synopsis-
Type IIx-'white' fibers, anaerobic, thicker, and used for power
Type II2-"pink" fibers, intermediate, can be somewhat converted to the other fiber types
Type I-"red" fibers, aerobic, thinner, use for endurance

Low reps-Type IIx
Moderate reps-Type IIx and IIa
High reps-Type IIa and Type I

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Kinda arbitrary don't you think?? I do sets with 115 and my arms are maybe 16".

Agreed. For me, weight should always come secondary to the most channeled intensity one can muster with two, very controlled motions: eccentric on concentric.

For aesthetic purposes, every single rep should be an exercise in focus. I feel, at least, with any type of training one dominant thought should permeate:

"It is not how much I move, but how I move it"

 

[dertynasty]

Ok well it looks like rodja didn't get my point about the amount of weight you push being irrelevant to your muscle size. I might have worded that poorly so let me try again.

There are people with amazing mind to muscle connections who will be able to lift much less than a person without that same "connection to their muscles" and still make better gains. HOWEVER, when you put 2 people side by side with perfect mind-muscle connection and they use the same tempo on their rep speed, the person who is lifting more will in fact be the bigger one.

ON THE OTHER HAND - take someone like myself with 16.5 in arms who lacks good mind muscle connection with their arms and put me next to someone who has the same arm size but with perfect mind muscle connection. That person should in theory be able to curl much less weight than I and have equal size proportions.

I really hope this cleared up my statement.

Oh and since you said your arms were 16in maybe.... It might be beneficial to drop the weight and really focus on your contraction and rep speed as well. Because I KNOW for a fact that if you are curling 115 lbs... with PERFECT form and a very controlled and slowed tempo, and getting a maximum contraction and squeeze at the top.... your arms would be bigger than 16 inches. You will probably argue this until the moon turns blue but until you try it, you will be doing the same thing that I have done for the past 6 years. It's taken me a while but at least i've caught on now.

Oh and mullet your right... its definitely not about how much you move, its about how well you move it and progressively bumping the weight when the time is right. In theory you should be able to stop at any point of your movement and pause for a second; if not, the weight is too heavy.

 

[Rodja]

Ok well it looks like rodja didn't get my point about the amount of weight you push being irrelevant to your muscle size. I might have worded that poorly so let me try again.

There are people with amazing mind to muscle connections who will be able to lift much less than a person without that same "connection to their muscles" and still make better gains. HOWEVER, when you put 2 people side by side with perfect mind-muscle connection and they use the same tempo on their rep speed, the person who is lifting more will in fact be the bigger one.

ON THE OTHER HAND - take someone like myself with 16.5 in arms who lacks good mind muscle connection with their arms and put me next to someone who has the same arm size but with perfect mind muscle connection. That person should in theory be able to curl much less weight than I and have equal size proportions.

I really hope this cleared up my statement.

Oh and since you said your arms were 16in maybe.... It might be beneficial to drop the weight and really focus on your contraction and rep speed as well. Because I KNOW for a fact that if you are curling 115 lbs... with PERFECT form and a very controlled and slowed tempo, and getting a maximum contraction and squeeze at the top.... your arms would be bigger than 16 inches. You will probably argue this until the moon turns blue but until you try it, you will be doing the same thing that I have done for the past 6 years. It's taken me a while but at least i've caught on now.

Oh and mullet your right... its definitely not about how much you move, its about how well you move it and progressively bumping the weight when the time is right. In theory you should be able to stop at any point of your movement and pause for a second; if not, the weight is too heavy.

You are also assuming that I am training for hypertrophy and I focus on the eccentric portion of every lift because this is where the majority of the microtrauma occurs.

 

[dertynasty]

You are also assuming that I am training for hypertrophy and I focus on the eccentric portion of every lift because this is where the majority of the microtrauma occurs.

Yes, another true fact which is pretty well known. Oh you don't train for hypertrophy? my bad.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

You are also assuming that I am training for hypertrophy and I focus on the eccentric portion of every lift because this is where the majority of the microtrauma occurs.

Everybody is training for hypertrophy. Myofibrillar (strength) or sarcoplasmic (aesthetic) hypertrophy are the two types.

 

[Rodja]

Everybody is training for hypertrophy. Myofibrillar (strength) or sarcoplasmic (aesthetic) hypertrophy are the two types.

Smart-ass.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Smart-ass.