How badly am I depriving my delts by...

**Zero Tolerance** · 03-06-2008, 07:48 PM

I have shoulder injuries which won't allow me to press anything with my palms facing forward. The best I can do is press with my palms facing in (toward my face).

How badly am I depriving my delts because of this? Do I have any hope of developing alright? I already have a decent build but I kinda fear everything else growing out of proportion compared to my delts.

I can't do upright rows, either.. What I do instead of that is - basically a VERY wide upright row.. I kinda stand slumped a bit on a dumbell rack and lift a dumbell from below my waist (palms facing behind me) - up to my jaw - and back down again.

I also can't do side laterals either... I used to have no problem with 80lb dumbells - now I can't do 20lbs without running into problems. It's depressing... I'll have to experiment with cables for those...

Dagron · 03-06-2008, 08:05 PM

Just destroy your medial delts lateral raises. LOTS of lateral raises. Sure it's not ideal but it will more than suffice if you do them with enough intensity.

**Zero Tolerance** · 03-06-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagron

Just destroy your medial delts lateral raises. LOTS of lateral raises. Sure it's not ideal but it will more than suffice if you do them with enough intensity.

Well.. I can't do regular side lateral raises (bent at the elbow).. I'll give what you suggested a try - which seems to be more of a straight-out-armed lateral raise.... I still have a feeling I won't be able to do them.....

Dagron · 03-07-2008, 07:45 AM

What exactly did you do to your shoulder that you can't effectively do a lateral raise? I've had rotator cuffs, medial head of the biceps ruptures (that one ruled) and dislocations and I've always been able to still do lat raises in lieu of presses...

**Zero Tolerance** · 03-07-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagron

What exactly did you do to your shoulder that you can't effectively do a lateral raise? I've had rotator cuffs, medial head of the biceps ruptures (that one ruled) and dislocations and I've always been able to still do lat raises in lieu of presses...

Impingement. Both shoulders... My bone structure is the problem..

Dagron · 03-08-2008, 09:43 AM

Oh shat, that's no good... I have no idea what to do to work around an impingement, by it's nature I'm not even sure that you can. Take a look at the pics on this site and see if it doesn't give you some idea of what precisely it is and what you could do to help it heal.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/980215ap/fongemie.html

**BigVrunga** · 03-08-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Impingement. Both shoulders... My bone structure is the problem..

Had the same thing - my brother did to and we're built very similar. His was a lot worse than man, and he had ART (Active Release Technique) therapy which helped him heal - now he's back to nearly 100% but we both still have to be very careful.

I was able to heal my impingement on my own, with advice from my brother and a friend that was majoring in physical therapy. Do a search there's a thread from a while ago talking about in detail.

Here's some stuff that helped a lot:

1.)Ice your delts down 2x a day for 10 minutes a session. Once in the AM and once right after you train.

2.)Perform rotator exercises and shoulder stretches before *every* upper body training session.

http://familydoctor.org/online/famdo...uries/265.html

Stretch your shoulders a lot too, at least a few times a day.

3.)Whenever you train, if you start feeling 'that pain' in your shoulder - that deep,'not the good kind of burn' feeling in your shoulder, kill the set immediately. Stretch, then stop doing the exercise.

4.)Supplements like Fish oil, Glucosamine, MSM, Hyaluronic Acid, and Cissus Quadrangularis can help.

Good luck bro!
BV

**Zero Tolerance** · 03-10-2008, 01:18 PM

Thank you for the advice! I'm guessing that at best, I "may" never be able to do very heavy military presses anymore. At least with my palms facing forward.. With my palms facing in, am I doing anything worthwhile?

**BigVrunga** · 03-10-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Thank you for the advice! I'm guessing that at best, I "may" never be able to do very heavy military presses anymore. At least with my palms facing forward.. With my palms facing in, am I doing anything worthwhile?

I used to think the same thing bro, but I'm back to doing military's and clean and presses regularly. "Heavy" for me is 8 reps though, with shoulder exercises I never go below that.

I think you're still hitting the delts with palms in, you may want to try lighter sets of arnold presses - they work really well and can actually help heal the shoulder.

I remember reading that 12-15 reps is actually beneficial for soft tissue recovery - no doubt because more blood is pumped into the area - which in the shoulder's case is crucial. Its such a tightly woven network of ligaments and tendon that bloodflow is constricted, which often leads to injury if you're prone to it. That's why proper warmups are really important.

Even since my impingement episode, Ive been doing 10-15 minutes of cardio preworkout just to get blood moving. It's really helped - I get nicer/longer lasting pumps too.

**Dadof2** · 03-12-2008, 07:59 PM

I do not know the nature of your shoulder injury, but do you think that you could do hang cleans? Hang cleans are a great mass builder.

**BigVrunga** · 03-13-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

I do not know the nature of your shoulder injury, but do you think that you could do hang cleans? Hang cleans are a great mass builder.

If he's got impingement, anykind of overhead pressing is going to be a *****. Olympic style cleans would actually be better as the joint recouperates, as the momentum from pulling the weight from the floor helps puts less stress on the shoulder.

Hang cleans do work them harder though...

**Zero Tolerance** · 03-22-2008, 03:22 AM

Thanks, guys.. I will look into hang cleans. I've never even seen them done before.. Odd.. I'll also try the higher reps and cardio....

luxxor · 03-22-2008, 10:37 AM

I've been training for 20 yrs and personally have NEVER had a direct shoulder training routine and my shoulders are one of my best body parts. People need to remember that the shoulders take a HUGE beating on chest and back workouts alone - that is, if you are training properly. And dont forget that if you are a heavy squatter, your shoulders can get stimulated too - believe it or not. The only thing I do for shoulders is heavy side delt raises on chest day and then rear delt raises on back day. Try it... maybe if you just give the shoulders a break, they just might respond...

**Zero Tolerance** · 03-24-2008, 04:19 PM

I'm with ya, there.. My delts are proportionate to the rest of my body without much direct work. In fact, they probably stand out a bit.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by luxxor

I've been training for 20 yrs and personally have NEVER had a direct shoulder training routine and my shoulders are one of my best body parts. People need to remember that the shoulders take a HUGE beating on chest and back workouts alone - that is, if you are training properly. And dont forget that if you are a heavy squatter, your shoulders can get stimulated too - believe it or not. The only thing I do for shoulders is heavy side delt raises on chest day and then rear delt raises on back day. Try it... maybe if you just give the shoulders a break, they just might respond...

Newlife4me · 03-24-2008, 04:32 PM

I've got a similar issue atm, finally going to break down and see a doc next week, no shoulder presses of any sort, but I'm still able to hit Lat. raises with limited pain.

Been really holding off on going to see someone, really worries me about taking time off ect. And loosing the gains I've been able to achieve. Hopefully, it isn't anything serious and I won't have to take significant time off.

DBinMD · 03-24-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance

I have shoulder injuries which won't allow me to press anything with my palms facing forward. The best I can do is press with my palms facing in (toward my face).
It's depressing... I'll have to experiment with cables for those...

I agree, stuff like this can be real depressing. I've got a couple of injuries that keep me from everything I want to do, but I manage to do what's most important to me.

I'm also of the opinion your shoulders can get a great workout from the rest of your upper body movements. I think the advice for doing no less than 6-8 reps is good, too.

What about concentrating on using dumbbells?

DB

ongoingsaga · 04-01-2008, 04:24 PM

not sure about the impingement, but I'm familiar with rotator cuff problems.

You might try cables. At least when my shoulder was killing me, I could still find a height and a pulling angle somewhere that would wo