HST for me, can i handle the sets?

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  1. Ectomorph man
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    Post HST for me, can i handle the sets?


    I started on a 8 week HST cycle to see how my body reacts to something really new.

    I took a sample workout for today to see how my body reacted and I couldn't complete the sets. the 15 reps really KILL me since I've been focusing on 6-8 reps

    I've since written up a very detailed workout routine, hitting the basic compounds every workout along with other mover muscles hard directly once a week and light indirectly/directly twice a week. For those who don't know, HST focuses on hypertrophy and muscle SIZE not just strength, which I am more interested in size ATM since I am so very small
    This focus is done by having the muscle fatigued every workout but doing a smaller number of sets that adds up over the week.

    Here is my workout routine, now remember this might be a bit different than some people; I know how my body feels after that one HST workout and its very VERY tired heh... i can see it workout tho because its a fatigue tired not a overtrain tired. This seems like a lot of sets, but its not since no exercise goes over 2 sets, and lots of them are just 1 set.

    I have also arranged the exercises to allow indirectly worked muscles some rest period (for now anyway, my body is going to need the rest until i can build up some endurance)

    Give me feedback Abs are assumed everyday of course

    Here is my routine for the first two weeks:

    15 rep target
    Legs, Chest, Back, Calves, Shoulders are Basic compounds
    Traps, Bis, Tris are focus compounds

    Workout A
    ------------
    Squats 2x15
    Stiff Leg DL 1x15
    Flat Press 2x15
    Dips 1x15
    Seated Rows 2x15
    Latbar PullDn 1x15
    Sit Calf Raise 2x15
    Shoulder Press 2x15
    Shrugs 1x15
    DB Curls 2x15

    Workout B
    ------------
    Squats 2x15
    Stiff Leg DL 1x15
    Incline Press 2x15
    Bent Over Rows 2x15
    Latbar Pulldn 1x15
    Stnd Calf Raises 2x15
    Lateral Raises 2x15
    Rear Delt Raise 1x15
    Skullcrushers 2x15
    Tricep Pushdown 2x15
    DB Curls 2x15
    Shrugs 1x15

    Workout C
    ------------
    Squats 2x15
    Stiff Leg DL 1x15
    Flat Press 2x15
    Dips 1x15
    Latbar PullDn 1x15
    Calf Raises 2x15
    Shoulder Press 2x15
    Lateral Raise 1x15
    Rear Delt Raise 1x15
    Tricep Extend 1x15
    DB Curl 2x15
    Pr Curl 1x15

  2. Running with the Big Boys
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    If you cant get 15 reps, you really should drop weight. Do not worry if you look like a wuss, as the weight will increase fast enough. HSt is not about fatigue of the muscle, so working to failure is not your goal. Also, when you do your weeks of 15 reps, try just 2 sets per body part instead of 3. For instance, instead of doing 2 sets of squats and 1 set of deadlift, just do 2 of squats or 1 and 1. When you get to the lower reps, then you can increase sets if you want. Or, if you are really bent doing more sets, you could break them up into a morning and night session.

    BTW, the HST forum has a vast amount of info on possibly every question that could be asked about the program.
  3. Ectomorph man
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    Well I know the people here and I don't know the people there

    I thought hypertrophy was fatigue? i can bang out 15 reps on most things; but damn at the end of this last session i curled a mere 20lbs on Dumbells and i got 14 reps... thats how tired i was... i couldn't even conceive of doing shoulder presses after doing incline benches (why i swap out the flats on days i do shoulder presses)
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    The theory behind this is to start with a weight approximately 25 lbs lighter than what you can actually do for your 15 rep max right? You should easily be able to finish that routine and adapt by the time you actually work with the 15 rep max right? Or am I getting the routine wrong?
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    "Sub-maximal" workouts, why not train to failure

    HST's method of using submaximal weights at the beginning of the cycle is based on the fact that the effectiveness of a given load to stimulate growth is dependant on the condition of the tissue at the time the load is applied. This is a very important concept for natural lifters. It is also based on the need to maintain the health (injury free) of the tissues.

    You can't really apply the external load based simply on the capacity to do so, and expect to the muscle to respond the way you want it to (growth). Too much weight too soon, even though you can lift it, will not always result in an optimal hypertrophic response. Not only that, but the greater the load, the greater the response to build resistance to it, and/or get injured.

    Why not just do as many reps as possible (A.K.A. train at “100% intensity”, or “train to failure”) for every increment/workout instead of changing it only every 2 weeks? Because when using sufficient frequency to stimulate rapid hypertrophy, you tend to get CNS burn out. Fortunately, it isn’t necessary to train at “100% intensity” to grow quickly. This is a very unpopular statement to experienced lifters who have prided themselves on torturous workouts. They take pride in their toughness and in their willingness to self inflict nauseating exhaustion workout after workout. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS. As long as it is not taught as the correct way to train for “growth”.

    HST incorporates ever increasing loads in order to stay ahead of the adaptive curve. This curve is set by the tissues level of conditioning at the time the load is applied. This is as much an art as a science. Because we can't do a biopsy of the muscles every time we train, we have to guess how much, how hard, and how often, based on the available research an the "feeling" of the tissue at the time. Why use submax weights? Because using max weights eventually stops working, and simply increases the risk of injury.

    Why not just do as many reps as possible (A.K.A. train at “100% intensity”, or “train to failure”) for every increment/workout instead of changing it only every 2 weeks? Because when using sufficient frequency to stimulate rapid hypertrophy, you tend to get CNS burn out. Fortunately, it isn’t necessary to train at “100% intensity” to grow quickly. This is a very unpopular statement to experienced lifters who have prided themselves on torturous workouts. They take pride in their toughness and in their willingness to self inflict nauseating exhaustion workout after workout. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS. As long as it is not taught as the correct way to train for “growth”.

    So why not train one maximal day only, then utilize "complete rest" thus preserving adaptive energies?

    There is no need to preserve "adaptive energies". This is a false notion. These adaptive energies are, in reality, the ability of the CNS to recover voluntary strength. Early "thinkers" noticed the effect of stress on health and compared that to the effects of heavy resistance exercise on strength and came to the conclusion that there was some pool of "adaptive energies" that was limited. Use it all up and you can't recover. What they had not realized was that there are fundamental differences between mechanical loading and Selye's stress model. This caused them to confuse the limitations of the CNS with the resilience of muscle tissue.

    Muscle tissue, as indicated earlier, has been shown to recover amidst continued loading. Take for example "synergistic ablation" studies. In these studies the gastrocnemius of an animal is cut so that the standing load is placed almost entirely on the soleus. In these studies the animal’s soleus is subject to a dramatic increase in load during every waking hour. There is no "rest between sets or workouts" or any kind of sets or workouts for that matter. There is no time off to allow "adaptive energies" to do their magic. Nevertheless, the soleus will double in size and weight within days. The muscle literally grows and adapts to the new "environment" while being continually loaded. Now I'm not suggesting that people have this done to get their stubborn calves to grow, but it does illustrate an important point. Which is - the muscle can adapt while it is being loaded, or trained. The tissue does not necessarily need time off. The central nervous system, on the other hand, does need time off. The amount of time off it needs depends on how much "fatigue" was induced.

    Please try to avoid "forced reps". During the concentric phase push on the weight but make sure it goes up "quickly". If you are doing an exercise that requires a partner, and he can no longer lift the weight up quickly, you're done.

    Fatigue actually "decreases" the damage caused by eccentric reps. The fibers have to be actively contracting while lengthening in order to cause the "right" kind of microtrauma.
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    Originally posted by Bean


    I thought hypertrophy was fatigue?
    What is hypertrophy?
    hypertrophy - n - A nontumorous enlargement of an organ or a tissue as a result of an increase in the size rather than the number of constituent cells

    In other words, muscle hypertrophy is the enlarging of the muscle fibers as opposed to an increase in the number of muscle fibers (hyperplasia).
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    Hey Custom, very nice, so you don't want to go to failure, and the idea is to keep working your muscles but to only truly stress them once in a while right? I like the idea, it's worth a shot
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    Originally posted by goin_big
    Hey Custom, very nice, so you don't want to go to failure, and the idea is to keep working your muscles but to only truly stress them once in a while right? I like the idea, it's worth a shot
    Pretty much, yes. The idea is to progressively increase the load amount approximatly every 48 hours, which according to Bryan Hacock and the followers of HST, works wonders. His site is actually one of the most informative Ive come across. It would do anyone alot of good just to read up on the basic priciple of HST to get a better grasp (doesn't take very long to get the jist of it and is explained much better than I could do it). Im not affiliated w/it or anything, I just really think its a great program. www.hypertrophy-specific.com
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    actually I think you've explained it better in this thread than his site does, the site is kinda confusing
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    Originally posted by custom


    Pretty much, yes. The idea is to progressively increase the load amount approximatly every 48 hours, which according to Bryan Hacock and the followers of HST, works wonders. His site is actually one of the most informative Ive come across. It would do anyone alot of good just to read up on the basic priciple of HST to get a better grasp (doesn't take very long to get the jist of it and is explained much better than I could do it). Im not affiliated w/it or anything, I just really think its a great program. www.hypertrophy-specific.com
    increase the load amount approximatley every 48 hours? so your suposed to increase the weight each workout? what if for example you cant hit 15 when upping the weight? I'm really confused on how progressin works on this routine...and when exactly you are suposed to increase the weight.

    I've read through the site many times, and am still considering doing it, just want to make sure I do hst right.
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    how are you able to increase the weight every 2 days while keeping the rep range the same???? i mean, that is very good strength gain.....i'm missing something
  13. Ectomorph man
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    actually i'm not going to failure; tho i think i did get too close on this last workout, i've adjusted my target weights accordingly for my next workout, so hopefully i won't be too dead

    and i got confused about hypertrophy... while hypertrophy is the actual enlarging of the muscle, you get there by muscle fatigue and throwing your system out of whack all the time... also by going to fatigue, not to failure

    thx for the clarification custom

    this is new and I'm not too keen on GVT or HIT and volume training i've been doing forever, so its time for something new, looks very promising and i encourage all to experiment with it..
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    yea guys, if u try this let us all know how it went. im now considering this. esp. if someone can compare it to HIT methods.
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    after you complete your 8 week cycle and take your week off.....
    how do you progress your weight for the beginning of your next cycle? just up everything from your previous cycle by 5 pounds?
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    I think there's a little confusion here. You aren't gaining strength every 48 hours, rather you're working your way back up to a set max. You don't increase weight until after you complete the 6-8 week cycle. Here's an example: Right now your 15 rep max on curls is say 100 lbs. This would be divided into 2 weeks, 6 workout days. Day 1 you'd do 75, then day 2 80, then day 3 85, day 4 90, day 5 95, day 6 100. These days are of course 48 hours apart. When you do the 100 for 15 for the last day it should no longer be your 15 rep max, although you would still do it for 15, and then move on to your 10 rep days.
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    Originally posted by Zen_Lifter
    how are you able to increase the weight every 2 days while keeping the rep range the same???? i mean, that is very good strength gain.....i'm missing something
    I think goin-big hit n this but hee is the jist: You do not increase from your max every other day. Say you have a 15 rep max on bench of 150, and your increase in weight between each workout is 5 pound. On the last Friday of the second week of 15's, you will be doing 150 for 15. So actually you start out liike this:
    M: 125 W:130 F:135 M:140 W:145 F:150
    you would then go to 2 weeks of reps of 10. YOur 10 rep max on bench might be 185, so it would look like this:
    M: 160 W: 165 F:170 M:175 W:180 F:185
    So really, you are working up to your max, not building on it every session. When I looked at this, I never thought it owuld work because I was not 'going heavy' but let me tell you, this really does work. Alos, suppose your 5 rep max for bench is only 200, which is not that much more than the 185. It would look like this:
    M:175 W:180 F:185 M:190 W:195 F:200
    Notice that you are overlapping weight here from one week to the next, so in actuallity, your muscle could be doing the same amount of weight as a session last week, but w/lower reps. This is also fine, as long as you increase each week. After your cycel is over, take a week off. Then just take one week to determine your new maxes, take another week off, and then start over again. I am attaching my homemade excel spreadsheet if anyone wants to use it. It is when I was just starting after a life-threatening illness, so as you can see, the wieghts are very low.
    Or, there is a nice calculator on the HST web site.

    Sorry, I cannot seem to attach the excel sheet or convert it to a zip file.
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    Here we go, I just made this up in excel. Type in your 15, 10, and 5 rep maxes on day six and it will figure out your weights for you. Enjoy, and custom if you don't like any of the figures feel free to change them.
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    I was thinking about trying HST out but whats holding me back is the fact that most of the weeks arent "working sets" ie if your 15 rep max for squats is 200, whats the point of only doing 180 for 15. I guess I come from the school of thought that muscles need to be worked harder than what theyre accustomed to. How is working them at a weight less than what their potential is, going to benefit. Ive read through the site and must be missing something. Could anyone explain to me in plain 3rd grade english how this works? Ive read the success stories and all so it must work. I would just like to understand the "how"
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    Their theory is that your muscles do not need to be worked to failure every workout. After you do the 2 weeks your 15 rep max should be easier and therefore no longer be your max, so that when you do the next 6 weeks you can add 5-10 lbs on to each lift, and if you can continue to do this every 6 weeks you should get stronger right? Well anyways, it sounds interesting. I'm going to be giving it a try soon to. I was a bit skeptical, but I gotta do something new. All I can say is give it a try and see what happens.
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    I guess it cant hurt to try huh? Although on some exercises for those first few workouts, I think my pride might be hurt a little
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    I hear that, but if anyone says anything to me I'll just turn and scream "THE SKY IS FALLING AND JUMP TO THE FLOOR" they won't bug me again, lmfao
  23. Ectomorph man
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    well the theory behind HST is progressive load, throwing your body out of whack; thats why you do the 15reps in the first 2 wks, 10reps in the next 2 wks, 5 reps in the next 2 wks, then 5s again or negatives, etc

    i prolly don't know what i'm talking about hehe
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    Originally posted by Cruehead
    I was thinking about trying HST out but whats holding me back is the fact that most of the weeks arent "working sets" ie if your 15 rep max for squats is 200, whats the point of only doing 180 for 15. I guess I come from the school of thought that muscles need to be worked harder than what theyre accustomed to. How is working them at a weight less than what their potential is, going to benefit. Ive read through the site and must be missing something. Could anyone explain to me in plain 3rd grade english how this works? Ive read the success stories and all so it must work. I would just like to understand the "how"
    It a tough mentality to get past, I know, but give it a real try and you wont be disapointed. I guess you could sum everything up by the progressive load principle and not giving the muscle a chance to adapt to the stresses that are being put on it.
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    Didnt read much of this, but if you're having trouble recovering drop any double set exercises. I would do that every so often that the training was catching up on me.
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    If you have a good look around the HST site you`ll find everything you need in order to setup up a HST Programme.
    ALL of the questions which have been posted here are answered there by people who have experience with HST.
    You just have read.
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    Hey custom, one question for you. During the one week of strategic deconditioning, do you do cardio or do you actually just lay around
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    Id do it longer than 1 week. I do two weeks. No training whatsoever since my legs get muscular training from running.
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    Hmmm, I'll prolly do a week, 2 weeks off would kill me, but thanks for the advice.
  30. Ectomorph man
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    yes i always found i started losing a lot more weight after 2 weeks vs 1 week
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