Advice for lacking shoulder and arm growth

  1. vision
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    Advice for lacking shoulder and arm growth


    Alright I started lifting like I used to in my early 20s, I'm 28... I was 160 just did a SD cycle and had to cut it short but gained 12 lbs. I know not all of it was good but I'm happy with the results. Except my friggin arms havent grown again... I thought on average your arms should grow an inch with every 10 lbs but mine only went up .25" from 12.75 to 13" arm straight out to the side from my body...

    I've always had this problem even when I weighed 180lbs my arms were 13"... they refuse to grow and I don't know what to do...

    I've tried once a week training per bodypart, tri/bi day, arms after ch or back, sh and arm day, arms every 2 days... nothing works

    They keep getting stronger but not bigger definitely looking misproportionate...

    I can post any more information if needed...

    Thanks for any and all help!!!

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    Long shot but maybe you have a pinched nerve. Although if this was the case I'd think strength wouldn't go up. The only thing I'd suggest is keep trying diffrent training methods until you find one that works. It quite possible your training arms to hard. I've heard of numerous people that stopped training arms directly for a few weeks and experienced new growth.
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    Rule of thumb is 20lbs per inch. And beg my pardon but your stupid for even messing with SD at your size. Prohormones are not a excuse for your dieting and training failures.

    I would like to see your workout routine, exercises used, reps etc. Whats your height, weight, diet, and activity in y our life?
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  4. vision
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    Quote Originally Posted by ITHURTZ View Post
    Rule of thumb is 20lbs per inch. And beg my pardon but your stupid for even messing with superdrol at your size. Prohormones are not a excuse for your dieting and training failures.

    I would like to see your workout routine, exercises used, reps etc. Whats your height, weight, diet, and activity in y our life?
    5'11" 172lbs

    I keep track of my diet with excel for the past 6 months. Its easy because I eat the same things over and over again.

    maintenance is 3200-3400 calories daily
    c/p/f varies slightly from 40/40/20

    right now I'm bulking at 4000-5000 calories daily
    c/p/f varies slightly from 44/34/22

    I have almost all my logs from the past 5-6 years of weight training laying around but right now my schedule is the following:

    Day 1 - Triceps / Biceps

    Day 2 - Thigh / Lower Back / Calves

    Day 3 - OFF / ABS

    Day 4 - Upper Back (Lats, Rhom, Serratus, Traps)

    Day 5 - Chest / Light Shoulder / Triceps

    Day 6 - OFF / ABS

    Day 7 - Thighs / Lower Back / Calves

    Day 8 - Shoulders / Traps / Biceps

    Day 9 - OFF / ABS

    each day I do roughly 4-6 exercises, 3 sets each; Rep range is 8-12; Rest time varies from 30 - 90 seconds.

    For squats I only do 1 set of breathing squats for 20 reps. I do this every thigh day. I just switched to this last month but I have a bad left knee and I may already have reached my limit. I'll find out in 3 days.

    I've cut out all endurance training (running and boxing)
    I've cut out olympic lifts and speed days

    This is a really abnormal cycle, I'll be lessening the volume and probably go back to a 5 day split consisting of Thighs/Pull/Push/LowBack/Power-Speed

    All I can say for my size is that I've always had a high metabolism and in my early 20s I had to go above 5000 calories to gain weight ( I weighed around 135) and its always been difficult to keep it. My goal is to be a lean 180, anymore would be way too freaky.
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    Hmm. Well I hope your getting around the 260g of protein.

    And just in my opinion you seem to be a little all over the place. Set a rep range and stick with it, set a rest time and stick with it as well. 8 reps 4 sets good, 2 min resting periods good.

    May I also suggest throwing out your old routine as in 5-6 years you should already be a super shredded 180. A 4 day workout a week with 3 days rest is always my favorite. If you want to workout a few more extra days try to incorperate heavy (5rep)and light (12rep)

    IE
    Monday:
    Chest/Triceps 4sets 4 exercises 5reps
    flat bench, incline, dips, flies
    close grip bench press, skull crushers, overhead extensions

    Back 4sets 4 exercises 12 reps
    Latpull downs, rows, dumbell rows, rackpulls or deadlifts


    Tuesday:
    Legs 4sets 4 exercises 5 reps
    Squats, legpress, lunges, hamstring curls, calf raises

    Biceps 4sets 4 exercises 5 reps
    Standing barbell curl, standing dumbell curl, reverse curls


    Wednesday:
    Shoulders 4sets 4 exercises 5 reps
    Seated military, seated dumbell overhead, dumbell side s raises, and you can do dumbell or reverse peck deck for the rear deltiod.

    Abs 5 reps hanging leg raises, crunches be it decline bench or cable


    Thursday:
    Back 4sets 4 exercises 5reps
    Latpull downs, rows, dumbell rows, rackpulls or deadlifts 12 reps
    Bicep 12 reps


    Friday
    Chest and tri light 12 reps


    Sat
    Legs ab light 21 reps

    Otherwise just take the heavy weights and do 8 reps 4 times a week

    IMO atleast, for now.
  6. vision
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    [QUOTE=ITHURTZ;1068614]Hmm. Well I hope your getting around the 260g of protein.

    And just in my opinion you seem to be a little all over the place. Set a rep range and stick with it, set a rest time and stick with it as well. 8 reps 4 sets good, 2 min resting periods good.

    May I also suggest throwing out your old routine as in 5-6 years you should already be a super shredded 180. A 4 day workout a week with 3 days rest is always my favorite. If you want to workout a few more extra days try to incorperate heavy (5rep)and light (12rep)
    [QUOTE]

    Yea on maintenance I hover around 300g of protein. Bulking I'm over 350g.

    My rest time I'm just trying something new. I found that if I'm trying to stay in a certain rep range that if I increase the weight I cannot stay in the same rep range. So if I get 3 sets of 12 reps the following week I'll lower the rest time by 30 seconds. When I can do 3 sets of 12 with 30 seconds rest I increase the weight and go back to 90 seconds rest. I like it and it seems to be working and although I may not be increasing the weight at least I'm increasing the overall intensity of the workout. It also helps keep me motivated which is probably the most important aspect.

    My routines have helped me get stronger throughout the years and I was definitely on my way to 180lbs but I did have some set backs. Girls, yea put on some muscle and their jumping all over ya, kinda hard to say no. Biggest set back was when I broke my foot and twisted my knee playing football. I couldn't workout consistently or run for about 18 months due to stress fractures.

    Then a lot of people I care about got sick all at once and I dropped to 140lb. I was so weak my gf sat on me and i couldnt get her off when I used to have her sit on my back so I could do pushups.

    I'm back now and all is good but I've always had a problem with arm size. I've always stuck to core lifts because guys said the arms will follow but mine haven't so I'm not understanding why.

    Thanks for your input bro, I'll probably start that workout next week. I'll let you know how it turns out!
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    Haha compound lifts aint goint to make them grow, you have to hit them! These 18's didnt come back heavy rows and pullups. They came from 130-140lb bb curls and 65-70lb dumbell curls.


    I found that if I'm trying to stay in a certain rep range that if I increase the weight I cannot stay in the same rep range.

    Theres your problem! You cannot go anywhere if you stay in the same rep, same rep means no higher weights= no muscle.

    Ill use me for a example. I switched back to 5reps because I didnt like 7. But I will base it off the 7 reps. When I did flat bench it looked something like this

    135x20
    225x7
    260x7
    275x7
    280x5. Being my rep goal then was 7, I would work on that 280lbs until I reached the 7 rep mark, THEN add on another 5lbs until I was repping 285x7 then add on another 5 etc etc.

    People may say muscles adapt, well if you dont increase the weights yes its true. So if your rep goal is say 10reps, I dont know what you bench so Ill make itup

    135x15 warmup
    225x10
    235x10
    245x10
    255x6 you would then spend your following weeks doing your last set at 255lbs until you reached the 10rep mark. Add another 10lbs and rep out 265 until you reach 10. Your pretty much garanteed growth. But you have to push yourself beyond the limit.I hope this makes sense.
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    what arm exercises are you doing? I found that my arms added size very quickly after I incorporated straight bar curls in the 6-8 rep range and close grip bench press for triceps in the 6-8 rep range as well.

    For shoulders, I noticed the greatest difference when I started doing rear delt work, IME most people leave these out and shouldnt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ITHURTZ View Post
    Haha compound lifts aint goint to make them grow
    BS!

    If you do only variations on squats, benches, deadlifts, dips and pull-ups, and nothing more, but are continually adding weight to the bar over time and taking in enough Kcals, there is no way you're arms aren't going to grow - no way!

    Ask any ranked powerlifter how often they do curls or "hit the Bi's" and they are going to laugh in your face. Ever seen someone who can squat mid-400s or greater, bench low 300s or greater and DL high 400s or greater who has 13" upper arms? Why is that...?

    In contrast, how many guys do you see in the gym week-in and week-out doing curl variations for years who have added nothing to their arms (or any other part of their physique, for that matter?) Why is that...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-bone2 View Post
    BS!

    If you do only variations on squats, benches, deadlifts, dips and pull-ups, and nothing more, but are continually adding weight to the bar over time and taking in enough Kcals, there is no way you're arms aren't going to grow - no way!

    Ask any ranked powerlifter how often they do curls or "hit the Bi's" and they are going to laugh in your face. Ever seen someone who can squat mid-400s or greater, bench low 300s or greater and DL high 400s or greater who has 13" upper arms? Why is that...?

    In contrast, how many guys do you see in the gym week-in and week-out doing curl variations for years who have added nothing to their arms (or any other part of their physique, for that matter?) Why is that...?
    Powerlifting has no relevence here. I hope someone benching 700lbs and squating 900 has big strong arms. I know plenty of people who bench low 3's and have **** arms. I know a guy that did 405 and was curling 45lb dumbells.

    And to your last comment, isnt that about 99% of people that go to the gym? And your kinda pissing me off, go back to the teeny forum on bb.com

    Oh and btw, I Mid 3 bench and squat and mid 4 rackpull. 18" guns. NEXT
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    Quote Originally Posted by ITHURTZ View Post
    Oh and btw, I Mid 3 bench and squat and mid 4 rackpull. 18" guns. NEXT
    Aren't you special? And a know it all at only 23! Proportionately at 6'2", 18" arms aren't that big a deal junior. I'm 5" shorter, pull what you rack pull from the floor, for reps, and arms only .25" less than your "guns." And if that's you in your avatar, I'm at considerably less BF, proportionally speaking.

    Anywho, thanks for proving my point.
  12. vision
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    Anywayz, back to me

    You took me a little too literally when I said I do compound exercises. My routines revolve around compound exercises and I do of course do arm work. I just meant that I'm by no means one of those guys that spends an hour doing all sorts of DB curls and whatever that other one is where your arm rests against the inside of your thigh.

    My arm exercises right now are

    Triceps

    JM Press (greater stress on my triceps than tricep press)
    Skull Crushers
    Pushdowns
    Overhead Dumbbell Extensions (done on chest day)

    Biceps

    BB Curls (just got back to 105 today woohoo!!!) (Chest Day)Zottman Curls (Arm Day)
    Reverse Zottman Curls (Arm day)
    DB Preacher Curls (Back Day)
    Reverse BB curls (Arm day)

    I hit these exercises throughout the week

    For shoulders I have a heavy day and lateral work on chest days. I do work my rear deltoids first, it helps my rotators.

    But for the record my arms went up to 13.25 the past couple days so I'm happy!!

    I just haven't been in a bodybuilding mindset in a long time making it difficult to figure out what to do..
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    Quote Originally Posted by vision View Post
    Anywayz, back to me
    haha... sorry just had to laugh
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    Build up your shoulders, your body will limit the size of your arms relative to your shoulders. Heavy deads and rows or my new fave, the clean and press.

    Your triceps make up a lot of your arm, build that up with close grip bench and skull crushers. But remember, that muscle is used a lot in the other compound exercises, so isolation exercises should be limited so it gets some rest. Don't neglect the brachialis by doing concentration curls, change to heavy hammer curls with good form.

    I agree, heavy compounds will make ALL of your body grow. Don't worry about your bicep 'peak' when you have 13" arms. If you have a thick back and shoulders, your arms will quickly 'keep up'. You don't see anybody with sticks for forearms, 19" guns and no shoulders.

    Look into Rippetoe's 'Starting Strength' program. You are eating enough to support some good growth and he has been able to pack the pounds onto others with the program by doing heavy compounds. They are the basis for all good routines.

    X
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    Id also combine your bis on back, or 48hrs before or after back.

    Having problems with rotators? Fix the problem early by doing some cuban rotations, internal roations and external rotations. High reps 20-25. The subscapularis, teres minor, infraspinatus and supraspinatus may be small muscles, but when strong make a WOOOOOLLRD of a difference. I wish I did them religiously like the doc told me almost 2 years ago. Doing them now though
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    Quote Originally Posted by vision View Post
    ...I found that if I'm trying to stay in a certain rep range that if I increase the weight I cannot stay in the same rep range. So if I get 3 sets of 12 reps the following week I'll lower the rest time by 30 seconds. When I can do 3 sets of 12 with 30 seconds rest I increase the weight and go back to 90 seconds rest. I like it and it seems to be working and although I may not be increasing the weight at least I'm increasing the overall intensity of the workout.
    Instead of decreasing your rest interval try making some micro-weights and using them to increase the weight in small amounts.

    This was originally posted by Trance in Dave Draper's forum. I have made these micro-weights and use them often to keep the poundages moving upward.

    Many times we’ve all reached sticking points in our weight lifting where the weight is more than our current strength. Or at least the available plates are just too much for that next increase. My smallest regular sized Olympic plates are 2.5 lbs, and to balance out the bar that’s a 5 lb increase in a possible new weight increase. While it may be impossible to make that 5 lb increase, it may be possible to push through the new threshold an additional pound or two at a time. Unfortunately, I don’t have any 1 lb plates.

    Of course, this problem has already been solved by using what are termed "micro-weights". Through the technique of "microloading", weight increases can be accomplished with micro-weights as small as an ounce up to any weight increase up to the aforementioned 2.5 lb plates most all of us already have.

    Microloading works by increasing resistance by very small amounts -- half a pound, one pound, two pounds, etc. While it’s not much weight in the grand scheme of things, it may be just enough to stimulate your system into lifting more than it did the workout before. Microloading works by adding steady increases, however small, to your workouts.

    There are a few companies already selling micro-weights. One of the more popular sources is PDA (Piedmont Design Associates). They sell a fractional plate in a variety of different weight sizes. While PDA’s products are always of the highest quality, the one drawback is they can also be rather expensive. Their complete fractional plate collection is no different. Great quality, high price.

    Another solution that is commonly suggested is using magnets or large industrial bolt washers. In addition to trying to find the desired weight or sizes, the problem with these is that it can be a bit cumbersome to achieve the weights needed using these in any quantity. Magnets near the weights we are wanting can also become rather expensive as well.

    One of the better ways, and at ridiculously low costs, is using a simple chain and spring link combination, like this:



    Of course, this isn’t exactly an original idea on my part, but you can accomplish the principle of providing yourself with micro-weights at an affordable cost, and I can provide the actual part numbers and weights involved from my construction.

    All you need is the desired length(s) of 5/16 " chain, and the spring links as shown in the photo above.

    From "Home Depot", the part numbers are:

    #163630, 5/16 inch Chain, $2.03 per foot
    #150178, Spring Link, $0.97 each, multitude of colors for the fashion conscious



    Important: Each individual link of the 5/16" chain weighs exactly 1.5 ounces.

    The smallest loop you can make to fit an Olympic bar is 6 links. This will weigh 9 ounces, plus 1 ounce for the spring link, brings a total weight of 10 ounces.

    Now, of course, you can add additional links to have a multitude of microweight loads based on the length of the chain you choose to use. Just remember that each link is 1.5 ounces, and calculate the desired weight you want from there. You might want to make a number of sets of varying microweight sizes.

    One tip, if you don’t have the equipment at home to cut the chains to your desired weight sizes (lengths), the personnel at Home Depot will more than happily cut your chain to the desired sizes at the time of purchase. I’m sure any Lowe’s or other hardware stores will do the same for you.

    Another tip, if you’re using more than 7-8 links in your chain, you can twist the chain links before you attach the second end of the chain to the spring link to take up the slack before you slide it over the Olympic bar to help keep it snuggly on the bar, and lessen the rattling … or not.



    There you have it, a set of adjustable microweights, for less than $5-7 at most any hardware store.
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    I use these micro weights to get over sticking points. The only thing was the Home Depot guy was a little pissy having to cut that much chain.


    I am also looking for a way to incorporate bands into my rack.

    Good stuff.

    X
  18. vision
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    Heavy deads and rows or my new fave, the clean and press.
    Yea Heavy Deads have been my primary exercise for a long time. Now that my knee is better I'm trying to get back to full squats. I love the Clean, my roommate was a strength coach and really helped me perfect my form.

    Unfortunately, I strained my rotator rock climbing so I had to cut out cleans, weighted pullups and weighted dips. I've been doing a lot of work on my rotator and its all better now so the first exercise I'm putting back in my routine is the Clean.

    My upper back day almost always starts with BB rows. Since I starting lifting again I noticed I lost a lot of thickness. Its affecting my placement of the BB on my squats right now. I'd love to get it back.

    Id also combine your bis on back, or 48hrs before or after back.
    Yea thats pretty much what I do. I don't do a lot of bicep work at once, I spread it out over the week.

    Instead of decreasing your rest interval try making some micro-weights and using them to increase the weight in small amounts.
    Yea I love that idea, I read about micro weights a while back and was gonna incorporate them into my bench. My plateau has always been 245 but not because of strength, it hurt my shoulder really bad. I've swallowed my ego and stopped doing heavy bench, I do light weight burn out sets at the end of my chest routine. Everyone looks at me funny because the weight is so light LOL. And no I don't care.
  19. vision
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post

    I am also looking for a way to incorporate bands into my rack.

    X

    elitefts has an Exercise Index on the left hand side of their site. Look under Band Exercises Its the 18th one from the top. They have some interesting uses for bands with other exercises too.
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    While you can't beat datBtrue's micro-weights on cost, you can obtain them for a very good price from Iron Woody, especially the chrome factory seconds.

    http://www.ironwoodyfitness.com/fractionals.php
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-bone2 View Post
    While you can't beat datBtrue's micro-weights on cost, you can obtain them for a very good price from Iron Woody, especially the chrome factory seconds.

    http://www.ironwoodyfitness.com/fractionals.php
    Great find t-bone!

    Scroll down that page to the bottom to find those Olympic Chrome Fractional Plates (2nd's) you were talking about...that is an awesome price. Cool bro....thanks for the heads up on the whole site.
  

  
 

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