Everything & Anything DC!!!!!!!!!!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by pantherdude63 View Post
    What i meant was a sub for 30 degree incline smith press on the chest, shoulders, etc. day. So you think i should just do flat bench? The incline isnt adjustable does that matter or can i just do it at a 45 degree angle.
    Not sure I understand 100%, but you could just use the 45 degree angle bench. Its probably going to work your delts a bit at that angle but just stay focused on the contraction.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Not sure I understand 100%, but you could just use the 45 degree angle bench. Its probably going to work your delts a bit at that angle but just stay focused on the contraction.
    The workout for dc that i found has you doing a 3 day split mon.-chest, shoulders, tri., back width, back thickness
    wed-bic.,forearms,calves,hams.quad s.
    fri.-same as mon. and so on.

    It has two dif. chest workouts: smith machine 30 degree incline press and incline hammer strength press. I just wondered if any of you guys could tell me any other things I could do for chest on that day with the equip I have. Im even open to flat bench if somebody can help me out on the warmup/work sets. Thanks.
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  3. Dat, i agree with you also...in a sense. What is your training philosophy? Whom do you follow/admire/template your training routines from?

    Maybe a routine you like and believe in?

    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Your assumptions are incorrect.

    I enjoyed reading Ayn Rand's novels. I even agree with a lot of her "philosophy". But I never worshipped at the cult of Ayn Rand like so many who initially read her works, got excited, assumed themselves to be "John Galt" and thumbed their nose at the rest of the world.

    I enjoyed reading Dante's original now defunct thread many years ago. I have practiced many of the methods that comprise the core of DC training throughout the years usually during strength building phases as oppossed to tissue building phases in my training.

    I even posted Dante's original "Cycle for Pennies" thread (now hard to find since he went around insisting all copies be deleted from the net) in zip format earlier in the thread:

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exerc...ml#post1087323

    But I don't worship at the cult of DC. I don't care for the air of superiority. I don't get excited about these concepts that clearly did not originate with DC.

    The @sshole who jumped all over DW over at IM is not unique. Most of them are that way...they think of themselves as "John Galt" and thumb their nose at the rest of the world.

    You don't need that site. All you need is the origininal long-assed thread "Cycle for Pennies" which I provided.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    Dat, i agree with you also...in a sense. What is your training philosophy? Whom do you follow/admire/template your training routines from?

    Maybe a routine you like and believe in?
    You need periods where you are attempting to build strength. These time periods seriously tax the central nervous system though and won't build much mass.

    I primarily design my routines for hypertrophy resulting from "overcompensation of protein synthesis" & ideal Time Under Tension.

    Some of this is described by Greg Bradley-Popovich as follows:

    During the process of protein synthesis in any cell, energy is consumed in the form of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the body's energy currency. Muscle contraction, like protein synthesis and the vast majority of other physiological processes, also consumes ATP. The moments of ATP shortage during protein synthesis (as a result of ATP being used for intense muscular contractions) are hypothesized to be of paramount importance. Supposedly, an unknown signal would report to the muscle cell nuclei ordering them to send more protein-building instructions back out into the cell. It is proposed that when a trained muscle attempts to "catch up" on its protein synthesis during rest, it inadvertently overshoots resulting in a supercompensation, or net increase, in the amount of muscle protein. The concept of this competition for energy, called the ATP Deficit Theory, is somewhat analogous to the glycogen supercompensation characteristic of trained muscles.

    Evidently, to promote muscle hypertrophy, the activity must be demanding enough to produce this effect. Low intensity endurance training will not sufficiently deplete ATP stores available for protein synthesis. ATP can actually regenerate itself that quickly. Conversely, if the tension time of a set is too brief apparently under 45 seconds (although this is debatable) while implementing very heavy weights ATP is taken up quickly, but not in proportion to muscle fatigue; again resulting in lack of ATP store depletion allocated for protein synthesis. This may explain why power and Olympic lifters increase strength (via skill acquisition/adaptive coordination) without the characteristic hypertrophy of bodybuilders. Hence, in order to maximize muscle growth, it is best that sets last at least 45 seconds, but not so long (over 2 minutes) as to promote a high endurance capacity and potential overuse atrophy.

    About the Author:

    Dr. Greg Bradley-Popovich holds dual master's degrees in Exercise Physiology and Human Nutrition from West Virginia University as well as a doctorate in Physical Therapy from Creighton University. He is the Director of Clinical Research at Northwest Spine Management, Rehabilitation, and Sports Conditioning in Portland, Oregon.


    Some of this is further described in the section titled "Repetition Submaximal Resistance Method for Hypertrophy Training" from the book Fitness and Strength Training for All Sports : Theory, Methods, Programs by Jurgen Hartmann, Harold Tunnemann. This book is a translation of work originally published in former East Germany and details East German research and training techniques. It is a very interesting read.

    Another solid reference is Science and Practice of Strength Training, Second Edition by Vladimir M. Zatsiorsky.

    Muscle fiber make up & activation sequence is important.

    Making the target muscle do all of the work by carrying the load throughout the set is paramount. For instance the very bottom and very top of a DB press for chest takes too much load off of the pecs (it almost amounts to mini-breaks at the top and bottom).

    Anyway this is a thread about D.C. training so back at it guys.

  5. Bradley-Popavich is referring to anaerobic glycolysis in the below quote. From my understanding ATP production is lower in anaerobic glycolysis vs aerobic but it occurs several times faster. And it is regulated by an isoenzyme known as hexokinase. What I am trying to say is that I just dont understand how "supercompensation" is possible. In my head it makes more sense to occur during aerobic gycolysis when actual ATP levels are much higher (how it would occur in this state I have no idea either).

    Interesting concepts though. TUT is something a lot of people ignore, but I notice from experienced lifters with quality physiques they tend to do mid range of motion lifts (for example not coming close to lock out on a DB press and not lowering all the way either).

    I even see this in some cutler videos and one cannot argue with his level of hyperthrophy.

    During the process of protein synthesis in any cell, energy is consumed in the form of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the body's energy currency. Muscle contraction, like protein synthesis and the vast majority of other physiological processes, also consumes ATP. The moments of ATP shortage during protein synthesis (as a result of ATP being used for intense muscular contractions) are hypothesized to be of paramount importance. Supposedly, an unknown signal would report to the muscle cell nuclei ordering them to send more protein-building instructions back out into the cell. It is proposed that when a trained muscle attempts to "catch up" on its protein synthesis during rest, it inadvertently overshoots resulting in a supercompensation, or net increase, in the amount of muscle protein. The concept of this competition for energy, called the ATP Deficit Theory, is somewhat analogous to the glycogen supercompensation characteristic of trained muscles.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post

    ...Interesting concepts though. TUT is something a lot of people ignore, but I notice from experienced lifters with quality physiques they tend to do mid range of motion lifts (for example not coming close to lock out on a DB press and not lowering all the way either).

    I even see this in some cutler videos and one cannot argue with his level of hyperthrophy.
    The process was not completely understood when the East Germans were discussing it amongst themselves and here we are years later and we still don't have a much better or more accurate picture of exactly how this occurs.

    A few years ago I actually attepted to determine IF D.C. training maintained sufficient time under tension to induce "super compensation". Specifically I wanted to see if the rest pause technique had the effect of continuing to deplete ATP stores or if the break meant that ATP stores were beginning to be restored.

    I (under a different name) had this conversation with someone high in the DC camp. I didn't get very far because apparently "TUT is for pussies..." or so I was told.

    What I "determined" for myself was that a DC training set could work (to bring about ATP deficit w/ sufficient TUT) if the number of reps were kept a little higher & the rest that was taken for "rest pause" was short (maybe 9 seconds or less). The tendency to take longer breaks restored some energy levels and that violated what I wanted to accomplish.

    Unfortunately it is real difficult to squeeze out several reps with just several seconds reps ...so I found drop sets to be perfect.

    Actually a lot of successful physiques were built utilizing TUT even if they don't know it. For instance Dorian Yates who trained HIT style doesn't lock out his legs in heavy leg presses. At the top he keeps them slightly bent and if he needs a quick break to get his breath back he puts his hands on his knee caps to help support the weight but his muscles are still under tension.

    As for the bottom position in exercises such as DB presses a lot depends on the bone structure of the bodybuilder. If the guy has shorter arms particularly forearms then when he gets the DBs to chest level his upper-lower arm angle is still close to 90 degrees so tension stays on his pecs. BUT a guy with long forearms hits that 90 degree upper-lower arm angle serveral inches before chest level. This long-armed guy will lose tension on the pecs if he goes to chest level & a lot of the load will shift to his shoulders.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post

    Unfortunately it is real difficult to squeeze out several reps with just several seconds reps ...so I found drop sets to be perfect.

    Actually a lot of successful physiques were built utilizing TUT even if they don't know it. For instance Dorian Yates who trained HIT style doesn't lock out his legs in heavy leg presses. At the top he keeps them slightly bent and if he needs a quick break to get his breath back he puts his hands on his knee caps to help support the weight but his muscles are still under tension.

    As for the bottom position in exercises such as DB presses a lot depends on the bone structure of the bodybuilder. If the guy has shorter arms particularly forearms then when he gets the DBs to chest level his upper-lower arm angle is still close to 90 degrees so tension stays on his pecs. BUT a guy with long forearms hits that 90 degree upper-lower arm angle serveral inches before chest level. This long-armed guy will lose tension on the pecs if he goes to chest level & a lot of the load will shift to his shoulders.
    Yeah its not often that you see drop sets incorporated into popular programs such as DC. It should also be mentioned in your example once the long armed lifter gets the DB's to the chest they are able to "spring load" out of the hole so to speak. Taking the pec muscle even further out of the lift. I know from experience.

  8. reps to you dat...

    also, I like Ayn Rand's writings too

  9. if i cant do any form of squat (lower back problem, yet Dead lifts dont bother it, the compression on the lower left is terrible) and im afriad lounges would put to much pressure on one side...

    i use 2 different leg presses as of now, with 2 different stances, what do yall reccommend as a 3rd exercize

    nothing can go on the shoulders for legs....

    sorry if this is soo off topic, figured its the best place to ask.

  10. Crazy, try doing hack squats.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Crazy, try doing hack squats.
    x2!

  12. anyone have any feedback/progress from only a years or so out on DC? i only find larger Bodybuilders starting off on it, and not anyone already huge lol

  13. Quote Originally Posted by T H E O R E M View Post
    anyone have any feedback/progress from only a years or so out on DC? i only find larger Bodybuilders starting off on it, and not anyone already huge lol
    I've got a log going. It's only been 3 weeks. I'm no huge so it should help you.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  14. Quote Originally Posted by T H E O R E M View Post
    anyone have any feedback/progress from only a years or so out on DC? i only find larger Bodybuilders starting off on it, and not anyone already huge lol
    What specifically would you like to know? I had Dc'd back in the day, and ended up getting out of the gym for a few years, because of injury, or life getting in the way. Lost ALL my gains..


    I have been back at it, for the last year, and made some good progress.

    It is not for everyone.. It is certainly not for the people who switch their routine every few weeks. It is something that needs to be done over time.. I can't see myself training any other way.. There is a TON of variation built into the program, and it can always be evolving with different exercise choices, rep-ranges, etc.

  15. So what EXACTLY is the cruise phase 1-2weeks? I'm looking and can't really get an answer. Im just finishing up my 3rd week of DC and soon will be on my fourth then "cruseing"

    Im not real sure as to what I should be doing?
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    So what EXACTLY is the cruise phase 1-2weeks? I'm looking and can't really get an answer. Im just finishing up my 3rd week of DC and soon will be on my fourth then "cruseing"

    Im not real sure as to what I should be doing?
    Cruising is usually done for 2 weeks, but if your body is really wore out, then i'd go for 4. For your cruise, just don't do rest pauses and don't train to failure. You can still keep weight heavy and reps low, just don't train all out hardcore. If you're on rep 5 or 6 and think you can pump out a couple more, stop there.

  17. i got legs today

    i already did leg presses, and squats (back feeling better)

    but i dont have access to a smyth rack or anything, what exercises can i have for my 3rd, exercise?

    i gotta goto the gym in an hour if yall could help me out lol

  18. Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    i got legs today

    i already did leg presses, and squats (back feeling better)

    but i dont have access to a smyth rack or anything, what exercises can i have for my 3rd, exercise?

    i gotta goto the gym in an hour if yall could help me out lol
    Leg Extensions would be good. Or if you have a leg press machine, if it's like the one at my gym, it can be changed to a hack squat machine real quick Hack squats would be the best option IMO.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    Leg Extensions would be good. Or if you have a leg press machine, if it's like the one at my gym, it can be changed to a hack squat machine real quick Hack squats would be the best option IMO.
    leg extentions are no good DC training, its only compound movements,

    at this point i dont have that kind of leg press,.....

    i only have a squat rack, (but dit squats already)
    normal leg press (cybex) which i did already.
    and im left with one other thing,

  20. Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    leg extentions are no good DC training, its only compound movements,

    at this point i dont have that kind of leg press,.....

    i only have a squat rack, (but dit squats already)
    normal leg press (cybex) which i did already.
    and im left with one other thing,
    You obviously haven't done much research into DC. There are NO OFFICIAL "DC approved" exercises. ANY exercise can be utilized into DC training. It is just better to do compound movements because they build the most mass. Leg extensions build quality mass as well. Use 'em or don't, whatever.

  21. So bass, what would be a good example? Like a 5day split with say 9 sets per body part?
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  22. In regards to feedback I ran one 4 week blast with DC. It was mostly just a learning experience (finding weights, rest pauses, stretches, etc) however I do feel I had a few positive benefits even on a caloric/carb deficit. The primarily benefit was:

    Quads - Must have been the high reps but it seemed to "bring out" my quads more in terms of pop and vascularity.

    I definitely want to revisit DC when it comes time for a bulk.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    You obviously haven't done much research into DC. There are NO OFFICIAL "DC approved" exercises. ANY exercise can be utilized into DC training. It is just better to do compound movements because they build the most mass. Leg extensions build quality mass as well. Use 'em or don't, whatever.
    i have jason wojos DC training video, nowhere in there does he mention leg extentions, ive also done a lot of reading on it.

    most people who do DC training use compound movements for legs, and other body parts

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    So what EXACTLY is the cruise phase 1-2weeks? I'm looking and can't really get an answer. Im just finishing up my 3rd week of DC and soon will be on my fourth then "cruseing"

    Im not real sure as to what I should be doing?
    my understanding is that for your cruise you do whatever you want, including taking time off, just dont do anything like smells of DC. I believe 4weeks is just a guideline, after 6months i was up to 8weeks before hitting a cruise, and for that one week I'd work out once or twice with body weight execises.

    the beauty of DC is that you can personalize the program to suit how you respond to it.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    i have jason wojos DC training video, nowhere in there does he mention leg extentions, ive also done a lot of reading on it.

    most people who do DC training use compound movements for legs, and other body parts
    Ya, leg extensions are not really an optimal choice.. There is no "approved" list, but there is definitely preferred movements, and exercise selection is key.

    As for your cruise it is really up to YOU... Are you ready for a cruise? Do you feel burned out? Is your log book suffering?

    I usually will take off totally for a few days, then go in and do light workouts, etc. They usually last me 7-10 days.

    I can usually last 6-10 weeks before needing a cruise, depending. I have really lasted a while on this last blast, by implementing a few "planned days off" through out.. Like i'll take a friday off when i feel it is needed, and it will do the trick.

    The point of a cruise is recovery. Both physically and mentally.
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