Help Me Decide Please

[boffo234]

I belive this falls under Proper Forum Useage

-Aid in creating programs to fit your goals

So here we go

Alright, I have designed 2 routines, both being 5on 2off. I like having 5 on because A.) I'm a meso-endo B.) I recover fast it seems C.) I have too much time on my hands.

Now comes the hard part, deciding which one would work better. My lagging points are my lats and chest, so take that into consideration when helping me choose.

I have put both I.C.E. and Max-OT principles into these routines, compound heavy lifts with 3 sets of a 4-6 rep range, and lighter auxillary lifts with a 2 set 6-8, or failure rep scheme. I find this helps me move up in strength while still growing (or atleast I hope this works). Anyways, here they are.

Monday - Legs
Squat 3x4-6
Leg Press 3x6-8
Stiff legged Deadlifts 2x6-8
Lunges 2x8-10
Standing Calf Raises 2x12-15
45 Degree Calf Raise 2x12-15


Tuesday - Chest and Abs
Flat Barbell Bench 3x4-6
Incline Dumbbell Bench 3x6-8
Weighted Dips (Chest) 2xFailure
Roman Chair Leg-Lifts 3x12-15
Cable Crunches 2xFailure
Trunk Twists 2x30+


Wednesday - Arms
Barbell Curls 3x6-8
Hammer Curls 2x6-8
Preacher Curls 2x6-8
Skullcrushers 3x6-8
Cable Pushdowns 2x8-10
Overhead Dumbell Press 2x6-8
Weighted Dips (Tricep) 2x6-8


Thursday - Shoulders and Abs
Dumbbell Press 3x6-8
Military Press (In Front) 2x6-8
Side Laterals 2x6-8
Roman Chair Leg-Lifts 3x12-15
Cable Crunches 2xFailure
Side Crunches 2x12-15


Friday - Back and Traps
Deadlift 3x4-6
Chins 2xFailure
Lat Pulldowns 2x6-8
Bent Over Rows 2x6-8
Seated Cable Rows 2x8-10
Hyperextensions 2xFailure
Barbell Shrugs 2x8-10
Dumbbell Shrugs 2xFailure



or


Monday - Legs
Squat 3x4-6
Leg Press 2x6-8
SLDL 2x6-8
Lunges 2x8-10
Standing Calf Raise 2xFailure
45 Degree Calf Raise 2xFailure


Tuesday - Chest and Tricep
Flat Barbell Bench Press 3x4-6
Incline Dumbbell Press 3x6-8
Weighted Dips (Chest) 3xFailure
Barbell Pullover 2x6-8
Skull Crushers 2x6-8
Cable Pushdowns 2x8-10


Wednesday - Back, Biceps, and Abs
Deadlifts 3x4-6
Chins 2xFailure
Bent Over Rows 2x6-8
Lat Pulldowns 2x6-8
Hyperextensions 2xFailure
Barbell Curls 3x6-8
Hammer Curls 2x6-8
Roman Chair Leg-Lifts 3x12-15
Cable Crunches 2xFailure
Trunk Twists 2x30+


Thursday - Shoulder and Traps
Military Press (In Front) 3x4-6
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3x6-8
Side Laterals 2x6-8
Barbell Shrugs 2xFailure
Dumbbell Shrugs 2xFailure

Friday - Calves,Forearms, and Abs
45 Degree Calf Raise 3xFailure
Standing Calf Raise 3xFailure
Barbell Wrist Curls 2x8-10
Dumbbell Wrist Curls 2x8-10
Roman Chair Lef-Lifts 3x12-15
Cable Crunches 2xFailure
Side Crunches 2xFailure


With the 2nd routine, I worry my biceps aren't getting worked enough, but I guess with the back excercises it should be fine. But, with the 1st routine I worry about overtraining my triceps with seperate Chest, Shoulder, and Arm days, all working my triceps to some extent. I also worry with the 1st routine, because I do not work my serratus very much (except tosome extent on cable crunches) and I simply love this muscle.

Also, is it smart to have both deadlift AND SLDL, or should I take out the SLDL and add a quad isolation movement in like extensions or front squat?

Thanks for any responses, and sorry for the long post.

 

[shadow_manifest]

If I were you I'd go with the first routine. But I would add leg extensions and leg curls to my legs. personally I like to do arms and chest on the same day and do an ab day. later

 

[YellowJacket]

I would go with number 1 also. I would add another set or 2 to chest and add in dumbell curls for bi's. Both I feel will help you add more mass.

An excellent exercise for lats is a standing pull down... get in front of a cable pulldown machine, put the short-straight bar attachment on. Stand straight up facing the bar, grab it with both hands and pull it down to your waist, keeping your arms straight.

 

[boffo234]

Thanks again for all the advice guys.

 

[Flavor]

Why would you bother leg pressing? Or doing lunges? I would suggest a few changes... maybe something like this.

Monday - Chest and Abs (Alternate the order of the dips and inclines)
Weighted Dips 3x4-6
Incline Dumbbell Bench 3x6-8
Flat Barbell Bench 3x6-8
Weighted Hanging Knee Raises 3x6-8
Cable Crunches 2x8-10
Dumbbell Side Bends 3x6-8

Tuesday - Legs
Full Squat (You should be going ass to grass) 3x4-6
Front Squat 3x6-8
Glute-Ham Raise 3x8-10
SLDL 2x4-6
45 Degree Calf Raise 2x6-15
Seated Calf Raise 2x6-15

Wednesday - Back and Triceps
Bent-over BB/DB Row 3x4-6
Weighted Pull-ups 2x6-8
Seated Cable Rows 2x8-10
Wide Grip Pull-downs 2x6-8
CG Bench (Elbows at your sides) 3x4-6
Incline Cable Rope Extensions 2x6-8
Skullcrushers 2x6-8

Thursday - Shoulders and Abs
Upright Rows 4x6-8
2 Armed Seated Front/Side/Rear DB Raise Superset, weakpoint first 3x8-10 (Match weight and number of reps)
BB/DB Shrugs 2x6-8
DB/BB Shrugs 2x6-8
Cable Crunches 3x6-8
Weighted Hanging Knee Raises 2x8-10
Dumbbell Side Bends 3x6-8

Friday - Biceps and Calves (Alternate order of preachers and inclines)
Wide Grip Barbell Curls 3x6-8
DB Preacher Curls 2x6-8
Incline DB Hammer Curls 2x6-8
45 Degree Calf Raise 2x6-15
Seated Calf Raise 2x6-15
Toe Bounces for 30-60 seconds (Keep your legs straight and jump as hard and high as you can pressing only with your toes, jump again as soon as you land)

 

[boffo234]

Hmmm, that sounds like a very solid routine, do you think the preacher curls will hit the forearm enough? And do you think that back routine is sound enough without DLs?

 

[iron addict]

The second routine is light years ahead of the first. I have a hard time understanding how recovery is to occur when doing (as an example, there is more overlap, but triceps are most obvious.

Tues: Chest abs (LOTS of indirect triceps)

Wed: Arms (Direct tricep work)

Thur: Shoulders and abs (lots of indirect tricep work).

And they grow WHEN??

And yes, I know some guys grow off of routines structured like this. It always amazes me that some can grow like this, and always makes me wonder how much better they would do with proper structuring. MOST people wouldn't gain **** on a routine like this.

Iron Addict

 

[boffo234]

That was one of the things I noticed also

 

[Flavor]

Hmmm, that sounds like a very solid routine, do you think the preacher curls will hit the forearm enough? And do you think that back routine is sound enough without DLs?

Forearms... I forgot about those. All the back/bi/deadlift work should keep your forearm flexors well developed. As for the extensors/brachioradialis, you can add reverse curls or wrist extensions at the end of your bicep work. The back routine should be fine without DL'ing. Just make sure you're retracting your scapula every rep on your back work. Another point: since your lats are lagging, do your back work with a thumblesss grip. It helps deinvolve the biceps and forearms, leaving more work for the lats. Also, a pronated (overhand) grip is superior for focusing on the lats.

Edit: Also, I highly suggest using an over/over grip on your deadlifts if you don't already. Your poundages may drop at first, but your forearms will gain strength quite quickly. It might be a bit 'harder' but the benefits are easy to see.

 

[Lock_n_Load]

I also like to do chest befor back because imo you need your back to press.

my 5/2 off looks like this:

chest
back (light deads)
legs (heavy squats)
shoulders
arms
off
off
chest
back (heavy deads)
legs (light squats)
shoulders
arms
off
off


my lats are lagging so with a whole day for back I can really hit them hard. I do abs 2x/week, try to do cardio 1x/week. Always 5 mins befor wieghts though. I do my calves every day, they lag too.

 

[Flavor]

try to do cardio 1x/week. Always 5 mins befor wieghts though.

Never do cardio less than 2 meals before a workout. Doing it 5 minutes before will burn all your glycogen stores off, leaving you with what to burn for your weight lifting? Protein/muscle fiber! Bad bad bad bad bad.

 

[Lock_n_Load]

Never do cardio less than 2 meals before a workout. Doing it 5 minutes before will burn all your glycogen stores off, leaving you with what to burn for your weight lifting? Protein/muscle fiber! Bad bad bad bad bad.

good i hate cardio anyways.....lol On my leg days is when I usually do 5 mins, legs are a long way from the heart so it has to pump harder to to the blood there.

 

[Flavor]

legs are a long way from the heart so it has to pump harder to to the blood there.

Eh... gravity helps . Just warm them up like you would any other body part: a couple sets of light warmup for blood flow, a couple heavy sets for weight adjustment.