real distinguished abs

Doubravkody

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How do ya get em?
Right now, im doin rufly only 60 crunches and 60 situps a night
but doing my push ups, and other arm muscles that require balance an tightness i notice my abs working, but is their anything in particular I should do to get real defined nice abs, besides sit ups/ crunches?
or should I just do more of them?
Right now my abs arnt bad but their not real defined, and really their only not bad because im a scrawny mo fo.
Any suggestions I'd appreciate :)
 
Rodja

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Diet and cardio. Your abs are not seen until you have a low bodyfat %.
 
EasyEJL

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bb.com has a nice roundup of articles right now about abs
 

Doubravkody

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well my abs are seen, and i do have a low body ft %
im jus wonderen how you see those guys that are built, their heavy, and they still have real defined abs?
 
SteelEntity

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if it takes cutting down to the point of where your ribs are bulging out to see your abs then you simply need to build up the muscle, just like everything else. The muscle you have the easier it is to stay cut and defined.
 
Ubiquitous

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I built mine with high rep and high frequency.. now I just work abs a few times a week if that. Prior to this maintenence, I was on a mission with my core.. YOu can definitely train abs every day and produce good results. Keep with it.. patience... then diet.
 
rpen22

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I built mine with high rep and high frequency.. now I just work abs a few times a week if that. Prior to this maintenence, I was on a mission with my core.. YOu can definitely train abs every day and produce good results. Keep with it.. patience... then diet.
How many exercises would you do per day when you were building? Were they all bodyweight exercises or did you use weighted also?
 
Ubiquitous

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I did an absurb amount of crunches and leg raises/side raises per day. To balance out I did hypers. All BW... once in a while I'd do weighted cable crunches.. but not so often.
 

PumpingIron

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There are two main factors, muscle size and body fat.

Building them up is good, but be careful of over training. They are a smaller muscle group so you can train them much more often.

I personally had the same approach as Ubi. I did BW exercises daily. There was a point in my life when I did 1000 crunches every other day. But I was stupid then.

But some people have stellar abs without even working them and just using them as stabalizers during big lifts.

Nowadays I think a moderate approach is best. I do one exercises every training session untilizing my abs directly. I usually shoot for about 48 to 125 total reps, depending on the exercise. Hanging Leg Raises, Decline Crunches, Swiss ball Hyper extending crunches, V-Ups, and bench crunches/leg bends are my exercises of choice nowadays..

But the biggest thing to remember is to really concentrate on the muscle throughout each and every rep.
 
rpen22

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I really just need to build mine right now. I'm not at a low body fat percentage right now and don't expect to see them, but I will be when I diet back down for competition. Thanks for the tips guys.
 

MakaveliThaDon

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I did an absurb amount of crunches and leg raises/side raises per day. To balance out I did hypers. All BW... once in a while I'd do weighted cable crunches.. but not so often.

You should really work your abs with weight more. Not just once in a while. IMO it should be the bulk of your ab work. Your abs ARE a muscle, why wouldn't you train them like one? I mean to work your biceps you wouldn't stand and do 100 unweighted curls would you? Same goes for abs IMO.
 

PumpingIron

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You should really work your abs with weight more. Not just once in a while. IMO it should be the bulk of your ab work. Your abs ARE a muscle, why wouldn't you train them like one? I mean to work your biceps you wouldn't stand and do 100 unweighted curls would you? Same goes for abs IMO.
Smaller muscle groups are tricky. I see calves being the same way...

One way is to work them more often with lower weight, i.e, BW exercises.

Another way is to work them less often with weighted exercises.

Although, I feel that I get a better workout doing hanging leg raises than I do with pretty much any weighted exercise.
 

MakaveliThaDon

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Although, I feel that I get a better workout doing hanging leg raises than I do with pretty much any weighted exercise.

I combine the two, and do WEIGHTED hanging leg raises, lol :)
 
jminis

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how do you do that? sounds cool, but do you attach ankle weights or what? just seems hard to balance a dumbbell for these...
Ankle weights or small med balls which bring in even more core muslces and also adductors.
 

PumpingIron

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Nice, I wanna give that a try tomorrow...

How big of a medicine ball would you say to start with?
 

MakaveliThaDon

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Nice, I wanna give that a try tomorrow...

How big of a medicine ball would you say to start with?
Yep, that's what I use, medicine ball, put it between your legs and hold it between your knees. I started with the 6 pound medicine ball. Cuz that's the lightest in the gym, lol.
 
Ubiquitous

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You should really work your abs with weight more. Not just once in a while. IMO it should be the bulk of your ab work. Your abs ARE a muscle, why wouldn't you train them like one? I mean to work your biceps you wouldn't stand and do 100 unweighted curls would you? Same goes for abs IMO.
Who are you to tell me what I should do with my abs? I disagree.. I don't want my abs bigger and therefore should not train them like my biceps (which I do want bigger). I think it depends on your goals Makaveli. I have very well developed abs.. As PI said, some people don't even do direct ab work and have phenomenal abs.. should they do weighted movements as well? I don't think so.

To each their own.

As I stated, I do maintenence training with abs now. If I was a PL'er, or a person with underdeveloped abs, then yes... I would do weighted movements with abs.
 
xtraflossy

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how do you do that? sounds cool, but do you attach ankle weights or what? just seems hard to balance a dumbbell for these...
I remember I used to just grab a 20lb dumbell with my feet, and sit on the edge of a bench, grab the sides, and stick my feel out, and then contract my knees to my chest.
It just seemed easier then strapn' up weights to your ankles and doing leg raises.

the angle at witch you hold your torso when you pull your knees up (sticking your legs out on the way down) seemed t oemphasise different areas (upper, lower, mid).

Its harder to explain , but VERY easy to feel where these angles/possitions are.

I might actually get back into doing them again now that Ive been reminded of em. :head:
 

PumpingIron

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Another thing I used to do but haven't in quite a while are dragon raises...i think they are called...

you used a decline bench, backwards. Like Sly in Rocky 4
 
xtraflossy

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Another thing I used to do but haven't in quite a while are dragon raises...i think they are called...

you used a decline bench, backwards. Like Sly in Rocky 4
lol- I just used a flat bench,..
that way, I could start out at a 90degree angle, and slowly lean back as my set progressed.

.. But I do shout ADRIANNNNN!,.. when Im finishing my last rep
 
xtraflossy

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Occasionally, I let let slip "Mommmmmmy" :p
.. one time there was a "Snap, crackle POP- Rice Crispies!"
:icon_lol:
 
BigVrunga

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Smaller muscle groups are tricky. I see calves being the same way...

One way is to work them more often with lower weight, i.e, BW exercises.

Another way is to work them less often with weighted exercises.

Although, I feel that I get a better workout doing hanging leg raises than I do with pretty much any weighted exercise.
great posts guys and I couldnt agree more - some muscle groups - abs and calves specifically for me, need a directed, high rep pounding to see maximal results from training.

3 sets of 8-10 work miracles for chest, back, etc, but for calves I dont see any results until Im pounding them into the ground. Usually Ill do 10 rep sets with a weight I can do for 20 reps, but with a 15 sec stretch inbetween each set until I get to 100. I put over 1" on those pathetic bastards one summer with that routine.

Abs are the same, while working them with weights defintely shows results, training them with body weight supersets 3-4 days a week seems far more productive. My favorites are a legraise, crunch with legs up, frogs, and oblique crunches.

BV
 

jlowsho

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Great posts on a lame ass thead. Why is this in the Bulk section? Seriously, I get this question 50 times per week. Diet and genetics is the same answer.

Where does your body store fat? On most guys it's under your belly button first and foremost. If you can't see your abs - you need to diet more. Period. Abs need to be done once - twice a week AT MOST. But it's not gonna make them show up if your fat.

Next time - try to post this in the right section. Or mods - move the damn thing.
 

PumpingIron

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Great posts on a lame ass thead. Why is this in the Bulk section? Seriously, I get this question 50 times per week. Diet and genetics is the same answer.

Where does your body store fat? On most guys it's under your belly button first and foremost. If you can't see your abs - you need to diet more. Period. Abs need to be done once - twice a week AT MOST. But it's not gonna make them show up if your fat.

Next time - try to post this in the right section. Or mods - move the damn thing.
I disagree with you. Abs can be hit more often than once or twice a week. I would put my core up against most and I hit it 5 days per week now, both directly and indirectly everyday.
 
BigVrunga

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I disagree with you. Abs can be hit more often than once or twice a week. I would put my core up against most and I hit it 5 days per week now, both directly and indirectly everyday.
Personal experience aside, Id agree with you just based on your avatar pic.


Great posts on a lame ass thead. Why is this in the Bulk section? Seriously, I get this question 50 times per week. Diet and genetics is the same answer.

Where does your body store fat? On most guys it's under your belly button first and foremost. If you can't see your abs - you need to diet more. Period. Abs need to be done once - twice a week AT MOST. But it's not gonna make them show up if your fat.

Next time - try to post this in the right section. Or mods - move the damn thing.
Is someone a little testy this morning? :D You are right, diet is primary in exposing the abs - but a great looking midsection can most certainly be sculpted like any other muscle group.

Personally, I feel intense ab training helps burn fat in that area to a degree. There are a ton of conflcting opinions on that - but I know if I make abs a focal point in my training I definitely look a little leaner in the midsection. Diet and all other factors being the same.

BV
 

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I have seen results with making abs a focal point in training, BUT i think the rest of my phyque suffers, and being a competitor I'd much rather have say - split ham strings rather than the most defined abs. I prefer ab training with heavy weight and little rest.

I think worry about abs is completely asinine. Your only trying to impress people for vanity reasons. If you want to impress me - show me the wheels. OH, you've spent 3 hours in the gym a day doing curls, bench and crunches? Go model for ambercombie. Ya know? Don't think your a bodybuilder.
 

jlowsho

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I disagree with you. Abs can be hit more often than once or twice a week. I would put my core up against most and I hit it 5 days per week now, both directly and indirectly everyday.
why? You said yourself you hit it indirectly everyday. What's the point of working them 5 times a week? Are they getting bigger or better? My guess is if you lost 1% of bf you'd think they were 1000xs better than what they are now and you can do that without working abs at all.

like some one said before they are muscle tissue, so train them like any other muscle. What other muscle do you work directly 5 times a week'?
 

PumpingIron

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No I am. I'll put my wheels up against most too, I'll direct you towards a few pics if need be.

But you are not hearing all of what I am saying. I hit them with one exercise, after every workout.

Focusing only on abs for a full day is stupid in my book, but hitting them daily works just fine.
 

PumpingIron

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Oh and you can work calves every day as well.
 
BigVrunga

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why? You said yourself you hit it indirectly everyday. What's the point of working them 5 times a week? Are they getting bigger or better? My guess is if you lost 1% of bf you'd think they were 1000xs better than what they are now and you can do that without working abs at all.

like some one said before they are muscle tissue, so train them like any other muscle. What other muscle do you work directly 5 times a week'?
Calves.

Focusing only on abs for a full day is stupid in my book, but hitting them daily works just fine.
Agreed - I dont think I could devote a full workout to ab training but 5-10 min 4-5 days a week works really well for me.

Bodyfat is definitely key in ab definition but it doesnt mean you should ignore ab training. For one thing, consistent traing and doing vacuums whenever you think of it makes you just look better when you're standing at rest, keeps your midsection tight.

BV
 

PumpingIron

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why? You said yourself you hit it indirectly everyday. What's the point of working them 5 times a week? Are they getting bigger or better? My guess is if you lost 1% of bf you'd think they were 1000xs better than what they are now and you can do that without working abs at all.

like some one said before they are muscle tissue, so train them like any other muscle. What other muscle do you work directly 5 times a week'?
I missed this one. But a lot of waht I do in the gym is driven by my diet and lack of cardio. Meaning I don't do cardio and have a great diet. So, training a small muscle group ED works for me, to maintain that low BF and make them extrememly visible.

I don't think dropping 1% BF will make that much of a difference, as I normally flucate between 7% and 10% and now what a difference in BF will do. I see that building the muscle the way I do it works for me and over time my abs get taller and taller. I never said it was the way everyone should do it.
 

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I missed this one. But a lot of waht I do in the gym is driven by my diet and lack of cardio. Meaning I don't do cardio and have a great diet. So, training a small muscle group ED works for me, to maintain that low BF and make them extrememly visible.

I don't think dropping 1% BF will make that much of a difference, as I normally flucate between 7% and 10% and now what a difference in BF will do. I see that building the muscle the way I do it works for me and over time my abs get taller and taller. I never said it was the way everyone should do it.
Well I'm glad you added this in here. Because your results are built soley on anecdotle evidence and none on science. Try to reproduce your results with an untrained individual. My opinions aren't opinions at all, but what works and what science says works.

If your abs really got taller and taller all the time I'm sure you would put most IFBB pros to shame. If you got down to 5% bf you would be amazed at your abs. Working a muscle group with one exercise a day isn't going to do anything after your muscles adapt to the stress you sease to grow. This is science and can't be argued.

Muscle also has to recover. Your not A. introducing any new stress and B. Aren't giving it time to recover. I agree abs and calves can be worked more frequently, but it goes beyond common sense OR ESPECIALLY science to say that you can work a muscle group every day and contantly grow.

This logic is flawed to say the least. People some times see good results DESPITE what they do. Just because it works for you - goodie. But it proves more that you have good genetics than anything or you know how to cycle your steriods better than most pro's do.
 

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I think you proved my point more than you intended to also by stating you don't do cardio because your diet is so good. I'm the same way, but just because we dip toward the ectomorphic sectrum and have good will power doesn't mean that what we are doing is ideal. It just means we know our bodys well enough to know how to get a certain result.

What I do and what I say to do are two different things some times. I hate to do cardio and usually don't unless contest preping, but do I tell my clients to do it? Asolutely. Why? Because that's the way normal people work. Just because I usually don't doesn't mean I SHOULD recommend it to every one.
 

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I guess my point is that - instead of saying "this is the way it is, and this is what's gonna work." a more correct way to put your anecdotel high jinx should be "this is what worked for me, here's a few ideas for you to try."
 

PumpingIron

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I completely understand what you are saying. And I believe that you are thoroughly correct. But I am intruducing new stress as the rep scheme, amount and the actual exercise is changed every day. I am giving it time to rest as 2 days are taken off every week.

I never disagreed that dropping BF will make them pop out more. That is a universal truth, so I don't know why you keep saying this...

But I used to train the way you stated and I see better result like this. So yes I am basing it off of experience, as well as science. I am not saying this is the only way...I don't see why you are arguing...I feel like I am defending myself here, when I don't see why I should be.
 

PumpingIron

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I guess my point is that - instead of saying "this is the way it is, and this is what's gonna work." a more correct way to put your anecdotel high jinx should be "this is what worked for me, here's a few ideas for you to try."
If thats not what I said, my apologies, becuase it is what I meant, sans the smart ass attitude.
 

PumpingIron

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I think you proved my point more than you intended to also by stating you don't do cardio because your diet is so good. I'm the same way, but just because we dip toward the ectomorphic sectrum and have good will power doesn't mean that what we are doing is ideal. It just means we know our bodys well enough to know how to get a certain result.

What I do and what I say to do are two different things some times. I hate to do cardio and usually don't unless contest preping, but do I tell my clients to do it? Asolutely. Why? Because that's the way normal people work. Just because I usually don't doesn't mean I SHOULD recommend it to every one.

And you made a very valid point here, without knowing it. Everyone is different and will respond differently. Whether it be training, diet, supplementation, rest, etc.

Should people only train abs the way I do...no

Should they only do it your way...no

They should figure out what works best for them.
 

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Well I apologize as well if I came off as attacking you personally that certainly was not my intention at all.
 

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And you made a very valid point here, without knowing it. Everyone is different and will respond differently. Whether it be training, diet, supplementation, rest, etc.

Should people only train abs the way I do...no

Should they only do it your way...no

They should figure out what works best for them.
i agree... but being a trainer and a competitor I guess I have a biased opinion on what works and what doesn't simply becuase I've taken normal people and made them into successful figure or bb competitors as well.

I think for that reason I may have had an uncalled for ego in entering this topic
 

PumpingIron

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Well, I have taken myself to what I believe is a good physique that will do very well when I step on stage next year. Which is most likely where my ego comes from.

I see you just joined...you should definitely stick around bro, it's good to have people like you around here.
 

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I try to make it over here from time to time. I find it hard some times finding things that interest me enough to post on. What Association are you doing your competition through? (thanks for the welcome btw, after a heated discussion even)
 

PumpingIron

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I enjoyed it...It's what open forums should be like.

And I enjoy all facits of this board, from diet to training to A A S, to other supplementation, so it's not too hard for me to find things to discuss...plus it's always great to find someone who knows what they are talking about.

But I'm going to compete NPC.
 

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good stuff. I hope you have a better experience with them than some do. They are very beaurocratic at times. Depending on who the promotor/judges are.
 

PumpingIron

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Yea, politics does play a role with them. I'm hoping to be just so good that there is no way they can screw up the placings...
 

jaydee

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For nice abs, I would hit them 3 times a week. Do about 7 sets of fast crunches to burnout with about a minute rest in between. Do them fast and touch your elbows to your knees. Should add up to about 350 all up. Throw in some alternating sumo elbow to knee crunches after them - 3 sets of failure with a minute rest and thats about all you should need. If that doesnt work, I would check your diet.
 

PumpingIron

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For nice abs, I would hit them 3 times a week. Do about 7 sets of fast crunches to burnout with about a minute rest in between. Do them fast and touch your elbows to your knees. Should add up to about 350 all up. Throw in some alternating sumo elbow to knee crunches after them - 3 sets of failure with a minute rest and thats about all you should need. If that doesnt work, I would check your diet.
Why should you do them fast? All that leads to is lower back problems and baad form...
 

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