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German Volume Training

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    If doing a four on/four off/ four on cycle of PH's then on your down month do yo keep the training level high or back up on the ass busting?

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    Originally posted by LCSULLA
    If doing a four on/four off/ four on cycle of PH's then on your down month do yo keep the training level high or back up on the ass busting?
    you would cut back on volume of your lifts while off. Even if you can maintain the high level of intensity and "deeboness" throughout cycle and into your post, one should lay low on the volume however, the intensity of each set should always be a good one. Sage
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    these good for ph cycles or only for real gear? im doing 1T pro cycle for 4 weeks.. two squirts a day..

    also in what order should these exercises be done? exactly how they are shown?

    one more thing, 3 sets of calves? doesnt seem too effective in that respect..
    Last edited by LakeMountD; 02-17-2003 at 01:54 AM.
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    I have a feeling your calves will respond.. try it!
    Yes it will work for someone on ph as well as gear.
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    I have heard mixed results about GVT, some like it while others say it hasnt done much for them. I dont know who to believe, all I know is I prefer going heavier.
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    Originally posted by Rictor33
    I have heard mixed results about GVT, some like it while others say it hasnt done much for them. I dont know who to believe, all I know is I prefer going heavier.
    so you respond better to heavier weights on ph's and gear?
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    im still kind of confused on a few things.. like doing 10 sets of just decline bench? and on the advanced training it says 10 sets of incline... how you supposed to build different parts of your chest ?
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    Well GVT has WORKED WONDERS FOR ME. IN REFERENCE TO THE DECLINE QUESTION. EACH WEEK I CHANGE UP DOING DECLINE ONE WEEK,INCLINE THE NEXT,FLAT THE NEXT.
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    Originally posted by sifu
    Well GVT has WORKED WONDERS FOR ME. IN REFERENCE TO THE DECLINE QUESTION. EACH WEEK I CHANGE UP DOING DECLINE ONE WEEK,INCLINE THE NEXT,FLAT THE NEXT.
    were you on a ph? and so you did 10 sets of 10 reps? and sorry for the newbie question but what kind of gains did you see during your cycle and which ph did ya use? i am bout to buy some t1 pro
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    I wasn't taking a PH at the time just animal pack,creatine,and Z-mass. I did the 10 x 10, I cained 10 pounds in 12 weeks and I lost 2% BF. I was very hungry all the time while on the training.
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    Thumbs up yep yep!


    German Volume Training Worked for Me!
    It helped me realize that my legs are long winded muscles, because they blew up after 3 weeks of this workout and i could see quadcuts for the first time ever, my legs were bigger than they have ever been in my life! This was only a few weeks ago.
    Well, as everyone says the leg workouts are murder. So i pussed out and switched to MAX O/T training just to mix it up and go heavy for awhile. My legs have since lost the mass (or volume) that they were holding while training GVT.
    My chest had the same response. My pecs actually grew and filled out for the first time ever!
    My arms, However, didnt show the same type of response. I got stronger each workout, but they didnt volumize, no pun intended.
    Now that i am on max O/T my arms have increased again and my legs are lacking again. My chest gains have remained for the most part.
    I used both programs as they are originally written.

    So for my first PH cycle i am going to use what i have learned and put together a 4 week program, that will maximize each of my strong points. Using volume on lower body and max O/T on upper body.
    I am starting an lgp- 4grams 1t + 12 grams 4AD on monday.

    My legs are gonna get huge, thanks to German Volume Training.

    See Ya in A month.
    Talk to ya anytime!

    Peace
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    question on the GVT


    after the first body part (Day One) on the sixth day do I still do the same routine?





    Quote Originally Posted by wardog View Post
    Okay boys, since I have had so many questions on it, I will post it here. For me, GVT is one of the BEST routines when I am "on" I have found nothing like it for putting on size. The only issue is by set 8-9 the pump gets painful, but you poush thru it. I suggest anyone going for another good cycle give it a shot.

    German Volume Training
    By Charles Poliquin


    Supersets and tri-sets allow you to perform a lot of work in a short period of time. The rest-pause method allows you to use heavier weights, so you can recruit the higher threshold muscle fibers, and eccentric training enables you to overcome strength plateaus. The bottom line is that almost any training method will work (provided you do it with intensity!), at least for the few weeks it takes for your body to adapt to it. There is, however, one training system that stands above all the rest. It's brutally hard, but I've found it to be a very effective way to pack on muscle fast!

    In strength-coaching circles, this method is often called the "ten sets method." Because it has its roots in German-speaking countries, I like to call it German Volume Training. To the best of my knowledge, this training system originated in Germany in the mid-'70's and was popularized by Rolf Feser, who was then the National Coach of Weightlifting. A similar protocol was promoted by Vince Gironda in the U.S., but regardless of who actually invented it, it works.

    In Germany, the ten-sets method was used in the off-season to help weightlifters gain lean body mass. It was so efficient that lifters routinely moved up a full weight class within 12 weeks. It was the base program of Canadian weightlifter Jacques Demers, Silver Medalist in the Los Angeles Olympic Games. Jacques was known in weightlifting circles for his massive thighs, and he gives credit to the German method for achieving such a spectacular level of hypertrophy. The same method was also used by Bev Francis in her early days of bodybuilding to pack on muscle.

    The program works because it targets a group of motor units, exposing them to an extensive volume of repeated efforts, specifically, 10 sets of a single exercise. The body adapts to the extraordinary stress by hypertrophying the targeted fibers. To say this program adds muscle fast is probably an understatement. Gains of ten pounds or more in six weeks are not uncommon, even in experienced lifters!

    Goals and Guidelines
    The goal of the German Volume Training method is to complete ten sets of ten reps with the same weight for each exercise. You want to begin with a weight you could lift for 20 reps to failure if you had to. For most people, on most exercises, that would represent 60% of their 1RM load. Therefore, if you can bench press 300 lbs for 1 rep, you would use 180 lbs for this exercise.

    For lifters new to this method, I recommend using the following body-part splits: Day 1: chest and back, Day 2: legs and abs, Day 3: off, Day 4: arms and shoulders, Day 5: off.

    When using this program or any other, for that matter, you should keep a detailed journal of the exact sets/reps and rest intervals performed, and only count the repetitions completed in strict form. Here are a few more guidelines to ensure optimal progress:

    Rest Intervals: When bodybuilders start with this method, they often question its value for the first several sets because the weight won't feel heavy enough. However, there is minimal rest between sets (about 60 seconds when performed in sequence and 90-120 seconds when performed as a superset), which incurs cumulative fatigue. (Interestingly enough, you might find you get stronger again during the eighth and ninth sets. This is because of a short-term neural adaptation.) Because of the importance of the rest intervals, you should use a stopwatch to keep the rest intervals constant. This is very important, as it becomes tempting to lengthen the rest time as you fatigue.

    Tempo: For long-range movements such as squats, dips, and chins, use a 4-0-2 tempo; this means you would lower the weight in four seconds and immediately change direction and lift for two seconds. For movements such as curls and triceps extensions, use a 3-0-2 tempo.

    Number of Exercises: One, and only one, exercise per body part should be performed. Therefore, select exercises that recruit a lot of muscle mass. Triceps kickbacks and leg extensions are definitely out, squats and bench presses are definitely in. For supplementary work for individual body parts (like triceps and biceps), you can do 3 sets of 10-20 reps.

    Training Frequency: Because this is such an intense program, it'll take you longer to recover. In fact, if you're familiar with the writings of Peter Sisco and John Little, you'll find that the average "Power Factor Rating" of the 10-sets method is about 8 billion. Consequently, one training session every four to five days per body part is plenty.

    Overload Mechanism: Once you're able to do 10 sets of 10 with constant rest intervals, increase the weight on the bar by 4% to 5%, and repeat the process. Refrain from using forced reps, negatives, or burns. The volume of the work will take care of the hypertrophy. Expect to have some deep muscle soreness without having to resort to set prolongation techniques. In fact, after doing a quad and hams session with this method, it takes the average bodybuilder about five days to stop limping.

    Beginner/Intermediate Program: Phase 1
    This is a sample routine based on a five-day cycle. Once you've used this method for six workouts per body part, it's time to move on to a more intensive program for a three-week period.

    Day 1: Chest and Back
    Exercise Sets Reps Tempo Rest Interval
    A-1 Decline Dumbbell Presses,
    Semi-Supinated Grip
    (palms facing each other) 10 10 4-0-2 90 seconds
    A-2 Chin-Ups (palms facing you) 10 10 4-0-2 90 seconds
    B-1 Incline Dumbbell Flyes 3 10-12 3-0-2 60 seconds
    B-2 One-Arm Dumbbell Rows 3 10-12 3-0-2 60 seconds


    Notes: Rest 90 seconds between each "A" exercise and each superset; rest 60 seconds between each "B" exercise and each superset. Incidentally, I only recommend three sets of ten in this program for the "B" exercises. The "B" exercises constitute supplementary work, and doing ten sets of them would result in overtraining.

    Day 2: Legs and Abs
    Exercise Sets Reps Tempo Rest Interval
    A-1 Back Squats 10 10 4-0-2 90 seconds
    A-2 Lying Leg Curls 10 10 4-0-2 90 seconds
    B-1 Low-Cable Pull-Ins* 3 15-20 2-0-2 60 seconds
    B-2 Seated Calf Raises 3 15-20 2-0-2 60 seconds


    (*Take a weightlifting belt and buckle it. Attach it to the low pulley of a cable crossover machine. Lie down on your back in front of the machine, and hook your feet in the belt. Then pull your knees towards your chest.)

    Notes: Rest 90 seconds between each "A" exercise and each superset; rest 60 seconds between each "B" exercise and each superset.

    Day 3: Off
    Day 4: Arms and Shoulders
    Exercise Sets Reps Tempo Rest Interval
    A-1 Parallel Bar Dips 10 10 4-0-2 90 seconds
    A-2 Incline Hammer Curls 10 10 4-0-2 90 seconds
    B-1 Bent-Over Dumbbell
    Lateral Raises* 3 10-12 2-0-X 60 seconds
    B-2 Seated Dumbbell
    Lateral Raises 3 10-12 2-0-X 60 seconds



    (*While seated on the edge of a bench with your torso bent over, raise the dumbbells out to the side, making sure the top two knuckles (the ones closest to your thumb) are in line with your ears at the top of the movement.)

    Notes: Rest 90 seconds between each "A" exercise and each superset; rest 60 seconds between each "B" exercise and each superset. "X" in the tempo means to move as fast as possible, keeping the weight under control.

    Day 5: Off
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    Old school bump

    Anyone ever use a typical split with GVT? I'm thinking something like this:

    M: Back, Bis, Traps
    W: Legs
    F: Chest, Tris, Delts

    Cardio, abs, calves on T and Th

    Any thoughts on this for a recomp?
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    This is my humble opinion___I've been lifting for 20 years and I have not tried anything quite like this but I can see how this would work...it makes sense...people are soo stuck on heavy weights ALL the time and the bottom line is to stimulate the muscle (by any means necessary)...I've gained around 100 lbs since I've been training so I guess you can say I've been around the block a time or two....I will give this a go right away.
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    Pman, I'm 2 weeks in with a simple 3 day split. 1 movement follows GVT sets and rest rules. And then I do 1 additional movement per bodypart for 3-5 sets of 10. And that's it.

    I noticed significant recomp right away. And after 2 weeks, I'm sure my bf has dropped while my weight stayed the same. Not to mention that I've really backed off on overall time in the gym and only 2 or 3 light 20 min cardio sessions per week.

    So far, my 2 weeks says your opinion is right on. I'm just wondering if my body is going to adapt and see a plateau over the next week or 2. I plan maybe a 4-6 week run to really give it a shot.
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    celc5___I'm sure you will plateau thats why we change routines about every 4 to 6 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    Old school bump

    Anyone ever use a typical split with GVT? I'm thinking something like this:

    M: Back, Bis, Traps
    W: Legs
    F: Chest, Tris, Delts

    Cardio, abs, calves on T and Th

    Any thoughts on this for a recomp?

    ive been doing this type of split for nearly 11 weeks, works great. i am just wondering how long to run it for. a general rule would be if its not brok, why fix it? i do agree with the appetite thing. not supp loading right now either just aminos, multi, and an occasional nos supp.
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    I survived 5 weeks before I hit the wall. But, yes, the primary lifts did increase for 5 weeks. On the 6th week, I almost blacked out during squats while keeping the rest periods at 1 minute.

    Recomp was pretty good for me, although I think this would make a much better bulking routine. Post workout, I was hungry, hungry, hungry!

    I recommend this for an ON cycle routine and I plan to try it that way myself this winter or next spring. GVT will control the amount of weight that I lift on cycle, so I won't be tempted to add 50 or 60 pounds to my bench and tear up my shoulders
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    Bump! GVT makes men!
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    Year old bump
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    This seems way too complicated for me. Maybe I'm just dumb.
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    7 month bump
    Couldn't decide to bump or create a new thread for this question: for those that have done GVT and Gironda's 8x8 system (or know what it is)....opinions? results?
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    Quote Originally Posted by schizm View Post
    7 month bump
    Couldn't decide to bump or create a new thread for this question: for those that have done GVT and Gironda's 8x8 system (or know what it is)....opinions? results?
    GVT is very good for hypertrophy. You only need to know how many people view the article to know how successful it was.

    Some people find their level of maximal strength drops a little bit once they finish the mesocycle, of course this will come back and then some when you move back into an intensification phase.

    I like constructive comments on routines. One big thing with GVT feedback on forums is so many people change it and make it sound like they are still doing the same routine. The rep and set structure, exercise selection and rest periods are like that for a reason.

    I have seen people doing two chest exercises both on 5 x 10 instead of one exercise for 10 x 10. Single muscle workouts rather than antagonistic pairing, completely changing the five day microcycle, all sorts of alterations.

    To quote Poliquin, it is like putting blueberries in an apple pie and still calling it an apple pie, it just isn't true.

    From a personal perspective, I gained mass on GVT. It was effective without a doubt. I just find the programme so boring to stick with, I didn't look forward to going to the gym as much and by the third workout I was already anxious to change it because it was getting tedious. That is psychological feedback though. If I wanted to put mass on quickly, I would be happy to use it again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    GVT is very good for hypertrophy. You only need to know how many people view the article to know how successful it was.

    Some people find their level of maximal strength drops a little bit once they finish the mesocycle, of course this will come back and then some when you move back into an intensification phase.

    I like constructive comments on routines. One big thing with GVT feedback on forums is so many people change it and make it sound like they are still doing the same routine. The rep and set structure, exercise selection and rest periods are like that for a reason.

    I have seen people doing two chest exercises both on 5 x 10 instead of one exercise for 10 x 10. Single muscle workouts rather than antagonistic pairing, completely changing the five day microcycle, all sorts of alterations.

    To quote Poliquin, it is like putting blueberries in an apple pie and still calling it an apple pie, it just isn't true.

    From a personal perspective, I gained mass on GVT. It was effective without a doubt. I just find the programme so boring to stick with, I didn't look forward to going to the gym as much and by the third workout I was already anxious to change it because it was getting tedious. That is psychological feedback though. If I wanted to put mass on quickly, I would be happy to use it again.
    I have no doubt of it's effectiveness & have seen the variations...It's been a while since I've attempted it, usually wind up forcing some reps near the end and tweaking something...might hop back on it...although I'm only able to get to the gym M-F...so would have to tailor it to some degree...I'll post up a seperate thread on Gironda's 8x8 system for opinions...as it's somewhat similar in nature to GVT...question though, I do favor the pairing of antagonist muscle groups and doing A1, B1 back and forth for the 10 sets...but if I recall correctly didn't Poliquin 'allow' for say all 10 set of say bench presses with 60 sec rest b/t sets then working rows for 10 sets...if one wasn't wanting or able to go back and forth, bench, row, bench, row, etc...? My gym really isn't set up to 'allow' me to hop back n forth b/t the 2 as such...
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    This is like the first thread ever at AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Manback View Post
    This is like the first thread ever at AM
    Glad I could help be a part of history then!
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    Quote Originally Posted by schizm View Post
    Glad I could help be a part of history then!
    You and me are friends because of our user names.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Manback View Post
    You and me are friends because of our user names.
    Muhwhha, nice! Tool-approved!...
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    Quote Originally Posted by schizm View Post
    I have no doubt of it's effectiveness & have seen the variations...It's been a while since I've attempted it, usually wind up forcing some reps near the end and tweaking something...might hop back on it...although I'm only able to get to the gym M-F...so would have to tailor it to some degree...I'll post up a seperate thread on Gironda's 8x8 system for opinions...as it's somewhat similar in nature to GVT...question though, I do favor the pairing of antagonist muscle groups and doing A1, B1 back and forth for the 10 sets...but if I recall correctly didn't Poliquin 'allow' for say all 10 set of say bench presses with 60 sec rest b/t sets then working rows for 10 sets...if one wasn't wanting or able to go back and forth, bench, row, bench, row, etc...? My gym really isn't set up to 'allow' me to hop back n forth b/t the 2 as such...
    This question surprised me as it doesn't sound like something he would say. I looked into it and went through some of the articles on GVT and AGVT as well as GVT revisited.

    Everything I found involves supersets in the programme except one sentence which implies straight sets is a possibility. Here it is "When bodybuilders start with this method, they often question its value for the first several sets because the weight won't feel heavy enough. However, there is minimal rest between sets (about 60 seconds when performed in sequence and 90-120 seconds when performed as a superset), which incurs cumulative fatigue"

    So, in theory you could do it in straight sets. Personally I would be very surprised if Charles still said this as there reasons behind antagonistic supersetting including decreasing the drop off curve on both exercises.

    If you have the option, I would say do it as written. I have done GVT in commercial gyms and would use one piece of equipment for both exercises i.e., dumbbell bench press and dumbbell chest supported rows.

    I hope this helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    This question surprised me as it doesn't sound like something he would say. I looked into it and went through some of the articles on GVT and AGVT as well as GVT revisited.

    Everything I found involves supersets in the programme except one sentence which implies straight sets is a possibility. Here it is "When bodybuilders start with this method, they often question its value for the first several sets because the weight won't feel heavy enough. However, there is minimal rest between sets (about 60 seconds when performed in sequence and 90-120 seconds when performed as a superset), which incurs cumulative fatigue"

    So, in theory you could do it in straight sets. Personally I would be very surprised if Charles still said this as there reasons behind antagonistic supersetting including decreasing the drop off curve on both exercises.

    If you have the option, I would say do it as written. I have done GVT in commercial gyms and would use one piece of equipment for both exercises i.e., dumbbell bench press and dumbbell chest supported rows.

    I hope this helps.
    Sorry to have made you go searching thru everything to find where I got that...I should have referenced it...The thought did cross my mind to do say benches then BB or DB row and that would be fine...just that when it comes to being able to a pulldown/chin move then it's opposite bench move...or Squats/leg curls, it tricky to do in my gym....check the Gironda 8x8 thread to see what I did...
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    Cortisol control:ReduceXT/Test Boost:DAA (bulk&caps)/Pump/N.O.:Agmatine(bulk & caps)/Test/sleep support:ZMA **RB** Est Post #22
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