overtraining with combined splits.

[lifted]

hey bro's. i need ur input on some things.

my split goes like this:

Mon.--chest, shoulders, triceps
wed.--legs
thurs.--back, biceps

now i know that the lower back muscles take the longest to heal. but im worried about over training them. ie, on leg day, i do squats, deads, raises, and puke afterwards

on back day, i do rows, etc. but i have to deadlift the bar with rows at first to pick up the weight, ya know? so this would mean that im working them out again. this is no good.

so, i thought about just combining my deads with back day, but this wouldnt give me enough time to work my biceps. and i need to work my biceps when doing back because they get a workout as well with doin rows and such.

as u can tell, im an ecto-meso and have to be weary about overtraining, long training times, etc. at least for now i do.

any sugg's?

thx a lot.

 

[LunaHotel]

Obviously, your spinal erectors do get worked extensively twice in the week. Bent-over rows require them to be contracted quite thoroughly during the whole set.

IMO you need your spinal erectors STRONG. Now, in my experience, if you want a muscle to grow in mass AND strength, then you really need to let it recuperate completely. But if I am not mistaken, powerlifters train the same muscle more than once a week and those guys are STRONG.

So my take on this is that as long as you give your erectors a couple days and when you do your back day you don't feel them give way under the weight, you're gonna be just fine. If you need them BIG as well as strong, then it's a different thing... In that case, there is nothing else to do but to change the routine, although I wouldn't know HOW... :|

 

[LakeMountD]

i would do something more like this (for me that is)..

day 1- your monday
day2-off
day 3-your wednesday
day4-off
day5-your thursday
day6-off
day7-off

and then start over... and hell i even have an extra rest day in between the day 3 and 4... i grow best off of this... i train for size however not strength.. i also eat a shitload of protein and food... if yoru a quick recoverer i would stick with what i have above and hell you might even be able to make day 7 your new day 1... i use HIT as well.. everyones different remember that

 

[lifted]

oops, i messed that up. i did mean back/biceps on friday, not thursday. i used to work a 4-day split, seperating my back day on sunday and my biceps on thursday. hectic schedule lately along with actually trying to enjoy this summer made me switch, heh.

lately ive been running an evey other week sort of thing like this: on back/bicep day, i would only do lat bar pull-downs, and then the corresponding week i would do the rows. it gives me more of a break than doing both deads and rows each week. but still, im not moving up my poundages as much as i liked. but better safe than sorry, i guess.

oh well, i guess u cant have everything in life.

thx for ur input guys, apreciatte it. anyone else?

 

[LakeMountD]

ok i see.. well put it this way.. there are usually two reasons for not moving up in poundages on lifts.. either your overtraining or not eating enough, its rarely anything else.. if your not already taking in 250 g or more in protein then i suggest you do that.. i mean hell im 180 lbs and im taking in about 350g.. i also keep my calories around 3000 or more.. so far so good..

 

[lifted]

yea ur right, i just like to be extra safe, ya know?

im at 205-210 now and eat around 400-425g's /day. talk about a pain in the a$$. i also am eating around 5600cals/day now. i try to follow a ratio of 30/40/30 to the best of my ability, but sometimes its friggin hard man. esp. when ur eating this much, i doubt it matters that much to eat the exact ratio that u lay out anyhow.

thats what iget from partying since i was 14 all the way to about 20 yrs. old. i got descent frame size, but i had to do a lot of catching up.

 

[Supa Freek 420]

I'd follow Lake's suggestion as well in changing your routine around.

Legs/Push/Pull or Pull/Push/Legs would be a good split IMO.

 

[lifted]

new split:

sun: legs
mon: chest, shoulders, triceps
thur: back, biceps

thx for everyone's help and opinions.

 

[lifted]

BUMP for another question...........

i noticed that i have some pretty big holes in the back of my shoulders due to not working out my rear delts.

so my question is, what exc. can i do to help these babies out?

keep in mind that i can no longer raise my arms behind my back. its just impossible now.

so id take that i cannot do any rear lat raises correct?

plz help, i can use em for ashtrays now.

thx

 

[LunaHotel]

You can do them with a shoulder-high cable apparatus, standing up. That way you can begin the range of motion at high effort with the rear delt in full extension, and only contract to "parallel". Keep elbows bent. Hope you get my meaning... Is it just me or describing an exercice with a keyboard is a little cumbersome?

Also, bent-over rows on back day can be very helpful here.

 

[lifted]

You can do them with a shoulder-high cable apparatus, standing up. That way you can begin the range of motion at high effort with the rear delt in full extension, and only contract to "parallel". Keep elbows bent. Hope you get my meaning... Is it just me or describing an exercice with a keyboard is a little cumbersome?

Also, bent-over rows on back day can be very helpful here.

thx, but im not sure what u mean. are u reffering to a tricep push or pull-down type of cable? ie, the cable coming up when when pulled, or down? i agree its a pain to get ur point across.

i already do rows, but no help there.

thx.

 

[LunaHotel]

OK, you stand between two cable stacks, like for doing cable crossovers. Set the pulley at shoulder height. Grab the left-side handle with your right hand, and versa-vice. Step forward a little bit if you need to. Now you are ready to do the equivalent of Bent-Over Lateral Raises, except that now the point of maximum effort is going to be in the middle of the rep, and you don't need to go "above parallel" as it were.

Hm, I wish I could draw it.

 

[lifted]

hehe, ok i gotcha now. good stuff.

btw, i like ur signature. i agree. the next day, if i dont feel soreness, i feel ripped off.