Hardgainer! Help!

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    Hardgainer! Help!


    I bust my ass in the gym take all the right supplements, I eat right and get as much sleep as I can. But my gains still come very slowly. I've tried every workout routine I could get my hands on. Is anyone esle a hardgainer and how did you make progress. Help! I want to GROW!

    Stats: 39 years old, been training for 15 years. 5’11” 190 lbs 6.5% body fat. When I started training I was 145 lbs. Ectomorphic Body Type. I’ve fluctuated over the years. Max 218 12%bf, Best 195 5%bf Lowest (herniated disk in neck) 165 6%bf.

    Diet: Aprox 4000 calories a day, 300 grams of protein. About a gallon of Water daily. Breakfast: Oatmeal and Banana. 5 pack of metrx or myoplex. With 12 cups of skim milk. Dinner Pasta Chicken Salmon Shrimp Vegies Whole wheat rolls. Snack after dinner 3-4 days a week. 2 lean pockets or Ham and Cheese(nonfat) sandwich or a bowl of whole grain cereal. Sometimes peanut butter and crakers. I splurge a few times a week. Pizza, mexican or itallian food.. Deserts on occasion. Maybe once a week..

    Workout:
    Monday Chest and Back
    Incline dumbell 55 x 8, 80 x 8, 105 x 8 (to failure)
    Cable pull downs 150 x 8, 180 x 8, 210 to failure
    Flat bench dumbell 65x8, 90x8, 115 to falure
    Seated row 150x8, 180x8 210 to failure or when form breaks
    Hammer Strength Bench 90x8, 140x8, 180 failure
    Hammer Row 90x8 180x8 270 failure
    Hammer Incline 90x8 150x8 230 failure
    Hammer pulldown 90x8 150x8 230 failure
    Hammer Decline 90x8 180x8 270 failure
    Hammer seated row 120x8 180x8 240 failure
    Cable Chest press 40x8 50x8 60 failure
    Upright row 140x8 180x8 220 failure
    Peck deck 130x8 150x8 170 failure
    Tbar Row 45x8 70x8 90 failure

    Tuesday Arms & shoulders
    Hammer Shoulder Press 90x8 150x8 230 failure
    Hammer Shrugs 180x8 270x8 360 failure
    Barbell curl 60x8 80x8 100 failure
    Side lateral Machine 50x8 70x8 90 failure
    Tricep Machine 90x8 120x8 150 failure
    Machine Curl 50x8 70x8 90 failure
    Cable Side laterals 15x8 20x8 25 failure
    Cable push down 60x8 80x8 100 failure
    Cable curl 110x8 140x8 170 failure
    Dumbell Side laterals 22.5x8 27.5x8 32.5 failure
    Alt Dumbell curls 27.5x8 32.5x8 37.5 failure
    Hammer behind neck press 70x8 90x8 110 failure
    Upright rows 60x8 70x8 80 failure
    Hammer Strength curl 45x8 70x8 70 failure
    Machine dips 210x8 250x8 250 failure

    Wednesday Legs & abs
    Leg press 180x8 360x8 540x8 720 failure
    Seated leg curl 80x8 100x8 120 failure
    Standing calve 100x8 120x8 140 failure
    Hack squat 180x8 270x8 360 failure
    Seated calve 70x12 70x12 70 failure
    Leg Machine Icarian?? 180x8 270x8 360x8
    Seated calve Machine 210x12 210x12 210 faulure
    Leg Extensions 160x8 180x8 200x8 220x8
    Seated calve 70x12 70x12 70 failure
    Hyper extensions 45x8 45x8 45x8
    Roman Chair Leg Lifts 8,8,8

    Thursday: Rest or repeat Monday

    Friday: Rest repeat Monday or Tuesday.

    Sat and Sun: Rest.

    I will generally do chest and back twice a week. These are my most difficult body parts. Arms and Legs Grow nicely. If I need rest I’ll take a week or day off arms or legs. If I’m concentrated on gaining size I won’t do any cardio. I will go two or three months working on gaining mass then I’ll throw in cardio a few times a week for a month or two to bring up my cardio conditioning. I get about 7 hours of sleep on the weekdays and about 9 hours on the weekend..

    Supplements: Currently Hyperdrol, Mass FX, Jungle Warfare, Activate, Creatine. Prework out NOX-CG3 Gakixs 17hd Ephendrine.. Regularly B’s Multis Minerals and some Herbs..

    Tried Many other supplements, spent a small fortune.

    I’m busting my ass all year long only to gain 2-3 lbs of muscle…
    Last edited by csdb1; 02-20-2007 at 08:58 AM. Reason: additional information

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    If your not going up in weight, then decondition your muscles,
    Stop for a week, drop the weight to 80% of what your doing now on every set, and work your way up in the smallest of incriments each workout, and try changing to 10 reps instead of 8.
    That really should help. Have you tried a HST routine?
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    HST? Hypertrophy Specific Training.. I read a little about it. It sounds like what Mike Mentzger touted for years. Short intense full body workouts. I've never tried reducing the weight. Sounds unproductive.. Wouldn't rest or time off work just as well. What is the benefit?
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    A lot of bodybuilders decondition. Your training to failure all the time, which IMPO leads to overtraining unless your on a cycle.

    If you have ever taken time off from the gym you might know that you can jump back into the gym and use low weight and still get gains really fast, by deconditioning your muscles your allowing them to respond to a lower intensity of training rather then continuing to over train. Then you can use progressive load(increasing the weight each workout by small incriments) to furthur induce growth.
    These are just a couple of the principles of HST.
    Another principle being full body workouts every 2nd day or 3 days a week using the same overall volume for the week.

    Rest and time off would work, but youd be taking better advantage by working your way back up in weight.
    the HIT style of deconditioning is to lower intensity or volume without taking a break, not sure wich one it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by csdb1 View Post
    I bust my ass in the gym take all the right supplements, I eat right and get as much sleep as I can. But my gains still come very slowly. I've tried every workout routine I could get my hands on. Is anyone esle a hardgainer and how did you make progress. Help! I want to GROW!
    Your effort is commendable, but if it's not paying off quite obviously you're not doing the right thing.

    Stats: 39 years old, been training for 15 years.
    When was your last physical? How are your hormone levels?

    Diet: Aprox 4000 calories a day, 300 grams of protein. About a gallon of Water daily. Breakfast: Oatmeal and Banana. 5 pack of metrx or myoplex. With 12 cups of skim milk. Dinner Pasta Chicken Salmon Shrimp Vegies Whole wheat rolls. Snack after dinner 3-4 days a week. 2 lean pockets or Ham and Cheese(nonfat) sandwich or a bowl of whole grain cereal. Sometimes peanut butter and crakers. I splurge a few times a week. Pizza, mexican or itallian food.. Deserts on occasion. Maybe once a week..
    Get a better handle on your calories. Approximate amounts don't really work and can vary quite a bit.

    Workout:
    Monday Chest and Back
    Incline dumbell 55 x 8, 80 x 8, 105 x 8 (to failure)
    Cable pull downs 150 x 8, 180 x 8, 210 to failure
    Flat bench dumbell 65x8, 90x8, 115 to falure
    Seated row 150x8, 180x8 210 to failure or when form breaks
    Hammer Strength Bench 90x8, 140x8, 180 failure
    Hammer Row 90x8 180x8 270 failure
    Hammer Incline 90x8 150x8 230 failure
    Hammer pulldown 90x8 150x8 230 failure
    Hammer Decline 90x8 180x8 270 failure
    Hammer seated row 120x8 180x8 240 failure
    Cable Chest press 40x8 50x8 60 failure
    Upright row 140x8 180x8 220 failure
    Peck deck 130x8 150x8 170 failure
    Tbar Row 45x8 70x8 90 failure
    Trying to hit every machine in the gym? Relax on the training, and it is not necessary to train to failure all the time. All you're doing is adding a ****load of activity which is going to eat into your calorie surplus. Do the minimum work necessary to grow.

    Tuesday Arms & shoulders
    Hammer Shoulder Press 90x8 150x8 230 failure
    Hammer Shrugs 180x8 270x8 360 failure
    Barbell curl 60x8 80x8 100 failure
    Side lateral Machine 50x8 70x8 90 failure
    Tricep Machine 90x8 120x8 150 failure
    Machine Curl 50x8 70x8 90 failure
    Cable Side laterals 15x8 20x8 25 failure
    Cable push down 60x8 80x8 100 failure
    Cable curl 110x8 140x8 170 failure
    Dumbell Side laterals 22.5x8 27.5x8 32.5 failure
    Alt Dumbell curls 27.5x8 32.5x8 37.5 failure
    Hammer behind neck press 70x8 90x8 110 failure
    Upright rows 60x8 70x8 80 failure
    Hammer Strength curl 45x8 70x8 70 failure
    Machine dips 210x8 250x8 250 failure
    Same advice.

    Wednesday Legs & abs
    Leg press 180x8 360x8 540x8 720 failure
    Seated leg curl 80x8 100x8 120 failure
    Standing calve 100x8 120x8 140 failure
    Hack squat 180x8 270x8 360 failure
    Seated calve 70x12 70x12 70 failure
    Leg Machine Icarian?? 180x8 270x8 360x8
    Seated calve Machine 210x12 210x12 210 faulure
    Leg Extensions 160x8 180x8 200x8 220x8
    Seated calve 70x12 70x12 70 failure
    Hyper extensions 45x8 45x8 45x8
    Roman Chair Leg Lifts 8,8,8
    Same advice.

    Thursday: Rest or repeat Monday

    Friday: Rest repeat Monday or Tuesday.

    Sat and Sun: Rest.
    Same advice.

    [QUOTE]I will generally do chest and back twice a week. These are my most difficult body parts. Arms and Legs Grow nicely. If I need rest Iíll take a week or day off arms or legs. If Iím concentrated on gaining size I wonít do any cardio. I will go two or three months working on gaining mass then Iíll throw in cardio a few times a week for a month or two to bring up my cardio conditioning. I get about 7 hours of sleep on the weekdays and about 9 hours on the weekend..

    Supplements: Currently Hyperdrol, Mass FX, Jungle Warfare, Activate, Creatine. Prework out NOX-CG3 Gakixs 17hd Ephendrine.. Regularly Bís Multis Minerals and some Herbs.Tried Many other supplements, spent a small fortune.
    You could have saved your money.

    Iím busting my ass all year long only to gain 2-3 lbs of muscleÖ
    Well if your stats are correct you might want to consider a couple things. One, you're getting old, so get your hormones checked. Your recovery ability is likely not on par with what it was when you were 18, you can't train like an 18 year old or even a 25 year old anymore. You're training to failure all the time. This means you will get better at training to failure, not that you will grow. Two, if your training has been effective, you have to also consider the possibility that you're nearing your genetic limits. For strength or size, gains become harder to closer you get to your limits. That's the way of things.

    My advice:

    One, track your calories better. Know exactly what's going in and what you're burning on a daily basis. Or as close to exactly as is humanly possible.

    Two, simplify. Go zen for God's sake and get off the damn machine circuit before you kill yourself. Stop doing so many different sets and reps of so many different exercises, and do a reasonable amount of work concentrating on a few exercises, 1-2 per muscle group. Try a 5x5 routine or HST (it's not related to anything Mentzer has done). At the very least you'll maintain, and the energy you save by not working yourself to failure a trillion times a day will add to your caloric surplus and may help gains come quicker.

    Three, drop the supplements. A multi vitamin and some fish oil is a good basis. Some creatine on top of that wouldn't hurt. Anything else is gravy and not likely to make too much of a difference for gains or general health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by csdb1 View Post
    I bust my ass in the gym take all the right supplements, I eat right and get as much sleep as I can. But my gains still come very slowly. I've tried every workout routine I could get my hands on. Is anyone esle a hardgainer and how did you make progress. Help! I want to GROW!
    Sorry, but I can't help but to call people out when they talk like this. Bear with, but I don't believe there are hardgainers, just people who set too high of goals, with poor plans of action. So here's my little, rhetorical questionaire for 'hardgainers':


    1) How slow is poor progress?
    2) Do you log your progress? If not, what authority do you have to make such statements on your progress?
    3) What's the right food and right supplements, as opposed to the wrong food and the wrong supps?


    Whenever you hear a 'hardgainer' post, they're all the same: Essentially the 'hardgainer' states he's doing everything 'right' and inquires what he's doing wrong. The answer (based on hardgainer logic) is quite simple: he's doing nothing wrong! So how can you be doing something wrong if you're doing everything right? Hmmmmmmm.


    Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now. My guess is you are 1) Overtraining 2) Expecting unrealistic results. PM me your email address, I have an ebook written by Menzter that I think you should read.


    regards,

    thesinner
    Athletic Xtreme Rep
    Bob@athleticxtreme.com
    IFFI
    Ask me about the Athletic Xtreme Product Line
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    You can train to failure every set... if you cut your volume and do about 1/5 the sets you do now.

    In Pumping Iron, Arnold emphasizes that its the last few reps in a set that build muscle. Not going to failure wont force your body to adapt, and thus build more muscle/strength.
  

  
 

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