Please advise: Training problem that may be common to others also
- 01-16-2007, 09:13 PM
Please advise: Training problem that may be common to others also
First a bit of background. I'm 24 5'10 190+ about 12% I'd guess (maybe less). I've been as bug as 202 at 5-7% or 240 at god only knows, maybe 17%
I've been on a break recently but the problem now is no different than it was in my hardcore training days (mostly unnatural) - Absolutely NO muscular stamina.
I'll use bench for an example:
I would do something like say 110 dumbells for 6-7 on bench then go like 90's for 5 then by my 4-5 set I am lucky to handle 60-70 for 5 (this is just to make a point, I don't mean literally 5th set of the same movement). Or like today now after a break, I did 185 for 9 then by my third set I got 135 for 5 (to compare I did 135 for 20 in my warmups today - just a few minutes prior).
Also say I did 185 for 8, I could probably have done 225 for 7 but would have needed to go down to 155 or much lower to get 12-15.
I know this suggests fast twitch muscle but to be honest, considering all the things I have taken in the past, I never reached the size of strenght of someone who was a fast twitch or sprinter type. Overall I am not genetically gifted at all and have needed every advantage (legal or not) to get any results.
My question is: Should I go with my tendancy and do a DC type routine where I do very hard and heavy for a short workout OR should I fight uphill to fix the problem even if it means using absolutely useless weight at the end of the workout? My goals are superficial gains/looks so overall power only matters to me in relation to the amount that is needed for size. Do you think fixing this issue will help my growth or will using wieghts that are only conditionally heavy because i am tired be a waste of effort?
thank you all in advance because this is beyond my knowledge.
- 01-16-2007, 09:25 PM
A few things to consider:
Rest intervals. Keep them consistent to within 15 or so seconds. The duration of the rest period will significantly impact your ability to perform at maximal effort with said weight. Adapt and or adjust your rest interval to the work you are looking to perform.
I believe (not an expert) that genetic predisposition (fast twitch/slow twitch fibers) contributes significantly to the type of work that you can perform most efficiently.
Periodization and adaptation play a big role in performance. If you are accustomed and conditioned to low volume high intensity, high volume work will be quite the adjustment (the inverse as well). I always recommend periodization (still not an expert).
Preworkout nutrition can be a significant factor in performance. Targeting nutrients around workouts can enhance performance and recovery (future performance).
01-16-2007, 10:14 PM
Thanks man. I like to consider myself very knowledgable in most areas and don't know anyone personally in my life that can answer this question with any sort of scientific basis so anything anyone knows is a huge help.
As far as nutrition / rest intervals, I'll admit I don't micro manage them but suffice to say after 9+ years training I've tried darn near every combo. In general it just seems that I'm not meant for bodybuilding type workouts but at the same time am naturally weak so am not build for powerlifting.
I am really wondering what kind of periodization to do. I like lyle mcdonalds (SP) periodization for bodybuilding because it doesn't focuss 100% on one range at a time and neglect the others 100% but he never wrote the promised part 4 and no one else I've read wrote a similiar multi-focuss program.
It just makes me wonder if fixing this issue with my endurance could be the key to finally growing or if it will only make me loose more muscle.
01-21-2007, 12:56 PM
I actually think your overall nutrition could be lacking. If you post your entire nutritional regimen for a days time then we can all critique it.
As far as the workouts go...try to do a couple of weeks of 15-20 reps as heavy as possible or try to incorporate a Vince Gironda style of training. That should help with the muscular endurance and oxygen delivery. That in turn should help you with your short and intense workouts.
If you try the higher reps...then use the exact same exercises that you are using now. The after you do the higher reps for 2-3 weeks, go back to the way you were training before.
01-21-2007, 12:59 PM
You could also try decreasing the weight and making sure that you are getting in the 8-12 rep range. You may have to start you first set with 135 then 145 then 155. If you get all the weight at 12 reps then move the weight up SLIGHTLY in the next workout and continue that until you are getting into heavier weights in that range. If you are getting less than 8 reps its too heavy...and more than 12 its too light.
01-21-2007, 01:06 PM
Diet could be something too, right now I know it is off but I am just getting back inot the gym and into nutrition as well. I'll be starting a new plan that looks similiar to this:Originally Posted by EvilGenius
630 16oz milk w prot + fruit = 56 - 50 - 4
900 - 2x pb/ sugar free jelly + cott = 70 - 70 - 20
1230 - ckicken sand = 40 - 40 - 5
400 chick sand = 40 - 40 - 5
730 shake = 60 - 60 - 4
830 turkey and bread = 60 - 40 - 10
1100 turkey and pb = 60 - 5 - 14
total about 400 prot. 400 carb 65-70 fat
01-21-2007, 01:26 PM
Another thing to consider is a lowered intensity on your first set. Along with all the things B5150 mentioned, it could very well be that you are starting off too close to your 1RM for a high/medium amount of reps.
To use your bench example, start off with 165
01-21-2007, 01:39 PM
Ha talking about these low numbers is a killer. Oh well soon enough strength will be back...
Really the question is do you think its worth doing things to fix this? Will changing it up and making my body get more muscular endurance result in new growth?
01-21-2007, 01:44 PM
Nutrition is a big part of it. It looks like you arent taking in enough carbs. Just make sure that when you add the carbs to your diet you make them low gi carbs with a lot
This is a one day plan for me. You'll have to adjust the amounts to suit your body weight.
5 egg whites
1 scoop protein
1 cup oatmeal or fiber one cereal
1/4 cup blueberries
8oz Fat free milk
1/2 cup oatmeal
2 scoops protein
1 tbsp peanut butter
8 oz grilled salmon
1/2 cup black beans
1 cup brocolli
1 scoop protein
3 scoops Protein
1/2 cup white rice uncooked
8 oz chicken breast
small salad of baby spinach leafs
Casien Protein shake
You may feel a little more energetic throughout the day and your workouts should improve a little biut after the first 2-3 weeks.
01-21-2007, 01:47 PM
I'll consider that but high carbs mess me up bad, even 400 is sometimes a problem. I usually feel better and get stronger on lower.
Really the question I was asking all along isn't how to fix it (though I have learned more perspectives and thank everyone) but really SHOULD I bother fixing it and will it pay off asthetically?
01-21-2007, 01:50 PM
I think that the change will caus enew growth. the higher reps and lower weight will cause your body to build more capillaries which in turn cause more blood flow and help oxygen to reach the muscle. When you have more capillaries and you go back to heavier weights you will experience a better pump and less fatigue. Hence new muscle growth.
01-21-2007, 01:51 PM
Actually with my nutrition regimen I dont take in as many carbs as you do but the carbs Im eating have more of an effect energy wise bc they stay in the bloodstream longer.
01-21-2007, 01:52 PM
Thanks - I'll tweek the diet some and force my body to get more reps for a bit...Originally Posted by EvilGenius
All the working out stuff is so complicated for people with bad genetics like some of us have...
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