[storm88]

The Split:


Monday- Chest, Arms
Tuesday- Back, Shoulders, Abs
Wednesday- Legs, Neck
Thursday- Chest, Arms
Friday- Back, Shoulders, Abs
Saturday- Legs, Neck
Sunday- Rest Day

Monday - Chest, Arms:


Body Part Exercise Sets* Reps
Upper Pecs Incline Barbell Bench Press 4 15, 12, 8, 6
Lower Pecs Decline Barbell Bench Press 4 15, 12, 8, 6
Biceps Standing EZ-bar Curls 4 15, 12, 8, 6
Triceps Lying EZ-bar Triceps Ext. 4 15, 12, 8, 6
Wrist Flexors Barbell Wrist Curls** 3 12, 8, 6
Wrist Extensors Barbell Reverse Wrist Curls** 3 12, 8, 6


Tuesday- Back, Shoulders, Abs:


Body Part Exercise Sets* Reps
Lats Wide-grip Lat Pulldowns 4 15, 12, 8, 6
Lower Back Hyperextensions** 3 15
Front & Side Delts Seated DB Shoulder Presses 4 15, 12, 8, 6
Rear Deltoid Reverse Fly Machine 4 15, 12, 8, 6
Traps Dumbbell Shrugs 4 15, 12, 8, 6
Abs Crunches** 3 25



Wednesday- Legs, Neck:


Body Part Exercise Sets* Reps
Quadriceps Squats 4 20, 15, 12, 8
Hamstrings Standing Leg Curls 4 20, 15, 12, 8
Gastrocnemius Standing Calf Raises 4 20, 15, 12, 8
Soleus Seated Calf Raises 4 20, 15, 12, 8
Neck Seated Neck Resistance** 3 15
Neck Standing Neck Resistance** 3 15



Thursday- Chest, Arms:


Body Part Exercise Sets* Reps
Upper Pecs Incline Heavy Barbell Bench Press 4 15, 8, 6, 4
Pecs Flat Heavy Dumbbell Bench Press 4 15, 8, 6, 4
Biceps Standing Heavy EZ-bar Curls 4 15, 8, 6, 4
Triceps Lying Heavy Triceps Extensions 4 15, 8, 6, 4
Brachioradialis Standing Heavy Reverse Curls 4 15, 8, 6, 4



Friday- Back, Shoulders, Abs:


Body Part Exercise Sets* Reps
Lats Heavy Barbell Rows 4 15, 8, 6, 4
Lower Back Heavy Deadlifts 4 15, 8, 6, 4
Front and Side Deltoids Heavy Clean and Press 4 15, 8, 6, 4
Rear Deltoid Bent Over Heavy Laterals 4 15, 8, 6, 4
Traps Heavy Barbell Shrugs 4 15, 8, 6, 4
Abs Crunches** 3 25



Saturday- Legs, Neck:


Body Part Exercise Sets* Reps
Quadriceps Heavy Squats 4 20, 12, 8, 6
Hamstrings Heavy Stiff-legged Deadlifts 4 20, 12, 8, 6
Gastrocnemius Heavy Standing Calf Raises 4 20, 12, 8, 6
Soleus Heavy Seated Calf Raises 4 20, 12, 8, 6
Neck Seated Neck Resistance** 3 15
Neck Standing Neck Resistance** 3 15



Bodybuilding.com - Workout Of The Week - What Is The Best Workout For Training Bodyparts Twice Per Week?

[TeamSavage]

Jesus Christ that is a lot of volume. Unless you are on a high-dose cycle or have superhuman genetics, I would cut the volume in half at least. I count about 130 sets per week. I do 45-60 sets per week, and some of the biggest guys on this board do half that.

[PumpingIron]

yea, I admit that I overtrain. And I do always say that you have to figure out what works best for you.

BUT DAMN!!! That's a lot of sets.

[TeamSavage]

Originally Posted by PumpingIron

yea, I admit that I overtrain. And I do always say that you have to figure out what works best for you.

Agreed. I think that the obsession with overtraining on some other boards (such as BB.com) is a bunch of hype and just an excuse not to train hard. As you said, you have to figure out what works best for you. I do a fairly high volume (~9 sets to failure 5x/week, sometimes more on-cycle, sometimes less during P.C.T.) and rarely, if ever, feel like I might be overtraining... for others, it might be too much.

It's pretty easy to know if you're overtraining: feel rundown, can't recover, stop making progress, etc. If this happens, I lay off for 3-4 days and always come back stronger.

All that said, the routine posted above is just ridiculous, IMO. Unless you're a pro on tons of gear or you're an Austrian named "Arnold", that routine will grind you into dust and seriously hinder progress.

Storm88 - Are you primarily concerned with gaining size, gaining strength, or both? If you explain your goals and experience then maybe we can offer specific suggestions.

[storm88]

Originally Posted by TeamSavage

Agreed. I think that the obsession with overtraining on some other boards (such as BB.com) is a bunch of hype and just an excuse not to train hard. As you said, you have to figure out what works best for you. I do a fairly high volume (~9 sets to failure 5x/week, sometimes more on-cycle, sometimes less during P.C.T.) and rarely, if ever, feel like I might be overtraining... for others, it might be too much.

It's pretty easy to know if you're overtraining: feel rundown, can't recover, stop making progress, etc. If this happens, I lay off for 3-4 days and always come back stronger.

All that said, the routine posted above is just ridiculous, IMO. Unless you're a pro on tons of gear or you're an Austrian named "Arnold", that routine will grind you into dust and seriously hinder progress.

Storm88 - Are you primarily concerned with gaining size, gaining strength, or both? If you explain your goals and experience then maybe we can offer specific suggestions.

Ok man thanks for the involved response. Ive been doing a classic split - hit each body part directly one a week. However, I read an article (i think a found it on here) that said that is one of the worst ways to train. Something along the lines of not stimulating growth synthesis often enough. So I decided to give a twice a week routine a try. On my previous routine I felt like a couldve been training a lot more often even though I was going to failure on every set.

My goal at this point is just to gain mass. Im currently on a bulk. At some point down the road, two or three years, I hope to try some fitness modeling.

[storm88]

And yes I agree, bb.com will label anything overtraining.

[TeamSavage]

I wouldn't call hitting each muscle once/week "one of the worst ways to train", but I agree that there are advantages to hitting each muscle more frequently. When you do this, however, you have to reduce the volume accordingly. In general, you don't want to spend more than an hour in the gym on any given day (less is more), especially if you're working out 5-6 days a week.

Have you looked into DoggCrapp (DC) training at all? Do a search and check it out. It's high frequency (each group worked 3x every ~9 days) but low volume and incorporates many other interesting techniques.

Also, check out Glenihan's routine here:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/worko...hlight=routine
Notice that he's only doing 3 sets/group, so even though he's working 4-5 groups in a single session, he only does 12-15 sets/session. He lifts 3 days/week, for a total of 36-45 sets/week. You could use hit split but increase to 4 days/week, thus hitting each group twice/week.

[spatch]

Crikey! look at that volume

no more than 20 sets per muscle per month IMO.

if you want to hit each muscle more than 1x a week, try this, ol' chap...

split- Push/Leg/off/Pull/off... hits each muscle 6x per month.

3 sets of each lift

push chest/delts/tri's (add forearm work if you like)
Incline bench
DB shoulder press
CG decline bench
-or-
Military barbell press
Flat bench
overhead tri. DB extensions

Legs (incorporate 3 sets of ab work at end of session)
Front squats
Seated leg curls
Standing calf raise
-or-
Squats
SLDL's
seated calf raise

Pull Back thickness/width/biceps (add grip work if you wish)
Barbell rows
pullups
Straight bar curls
-or-
Deadlifts
Pulldowns to front of head
Incline seated alt. DB curls

[storm88]

Originally Posted by TeamSavage

I wouldn't call hitting each muscle once/week "one of the worst ways to train", but I agree that there are advantages to hitting each muscle more frequently. When you do this, however, you have to reduce the volume accordingly. In general, you don't want to spend more than an hour in the gym on any given day (less is more), especially if you're working out 5-6 days a week.

Have you looked into DoggCrapp (DC) training at all? Do a search and check it out. It's high frequency (each group worked 3x every ~9 days) but low volume and incorporates many other interesting techniques.

Also, check out Glenihan's routine here:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/worko...hlight=routine
Notice that he's only doing 3 sets/group, so even though he's working 4-5 groups in a single session, he only does 12-15 sets/session. He lifts 3 days/week, for a total of 36-45 sets/week. You could use hit split but increase to 4 days/week, thus hitting each group twice/week.

I checked out DoggCrapp and I dont think itd be a good fit for me. It seems a bit too complicated with the static pauses, fascia stretching etc. As for Glenihans routine, I need to workout more than 3 times a week for my sanity. Are there any effective routines that hit each bodypart more than once a week and involve lifting upwards of 5 times a week? Ill be coming home for break tomorow and Ill be home for over a month. What if I only follows the routine in my first post for a month and took a week off afterwards to recover?

[storm88]

Is the first routine really even that much volume? It comes out to 12 sets a week for chest, shoulders and 6 sets a week for tris, bis. When I was trainingeach bodypart once a week i was doing 12-16 sets/week for chest and 9 sets/week for bis and tris and I definitely didnt feel like i was overtraining.

[TeamSavage]

Originally Posted by storm88

I checked out DoggCrapp and I dont think itd be a good fit for me. It seems a bit too complicated with the static pauses, fascia stretching etc. As for Glenihans routine, I need to workout more than 3 times a week for my sanity. Are there any effective routines that hit each bodypart more than once a week and involve lifting upwards of 5 times a week? Ill be coming home for break tomorow and Ill be home for over a month. What if I only follows the routine in my first post for a month and took a week off afterwards to recover?

Yeah, I understand working out for the sanity part. I workout 5x/week just because I love hitting the gym and it calms me down for the entire day.

You don't have to adopt Glenihan's routine exactly, but it's an example of the type of volume you should be doing per workout. For instance, you could use his routine ("A" chest, shoulder, back, tri; "B" bi & legs) but do it 4-5 days per week.

Another option that I've used is to workout 5-6x/week with a push/pull/legs split:

Push: chest, shoulders, tris
Pull: back, biceps, forearms, abs
Legs: quads, hams, calves, deads

So you'd do each of the above workouts 2x/week. But for each muscle group, you'd only do 3 sets of 4-10 reps. So for example, on one "Push" day you might do incline press, shoulder press, and skull crushers. On the second "Push" day later that week you might do decline press, lateral raises, and dips. These are just examples, you get the idea.

The important point is that if you're working out 5-6x/week, you should be doing AT MOST 9-12 sets per day. The 22 sets/day in the original routine you posted is just crazy.

[storm88]

Damn I really hate having to analyze all this sh*t. I was I could just hit the gym and throw up some weights. I guess part of the reason I wanted to do this routine was to see if overtraining has been exaggerated on these and other forums. I mean, the more work you throw at it your body should eventually adapt right?

Anways, I remember seeing a routine of a bodybuilder that I really liked. I think it was something like the classic chest/tri, back/bi, shoulders, legs split...but towards the end of the week there was a a bi/tri day so you could hit arms twice a week. This might be good because I feel like my bis are 100% two days after lifting them.

[SoMdHunter]

Originally Posted by storm88

Anways, I remember seeing a routine of a bodybuilder that I really liked. I think it was something like the classic chest/tri, back/bi, shoulders, legs split...but towards the end of the week there was a a bi/tri day so you could hit arms twice a week. This might be good because I feel like my bis are 100% two days after lifting them.

That is the routine I was going to offer up to you. I workout 4 days a week, but can easily go with 5. You can do a Chest/Tri, Back/Bi, off, Legs/Abs, Shoulders/Traps for a 4 day routine, or do each one each night and add in an Arm day at the end. This hits the bis/tris twice, but they may be a bit tired when you go back to a back/bi routine again. I know mine are.

[spatch]

Originally Posted by storm88

Is the first routine really even that much volume?

Is the pope catholic?

Originally Posted by storm88

It comes out to 12 sets a week for chest, shoulders and 6 sets a week for tris, bis. When I was trainingeach bodypart once a week i was doing 12-16 sets/week for chest and 9 sets/week for bis and tris and I definitely didnt feel like i was overtraining.

Remember, Bi's get hit with back work and Tri's with delt/chest work. 12 Sets a week for chest and shoulders is WAY too much.

[storm88]

Originally Posted by SoMdHunter

That is the routine I was going to offer up to you. I workout 4 days a week, but can easily go with 5. You can do a Chest/Tri, Back/Bi, off, Legs/Abs, Shoulders/Traps for a 4 day routine, or do each one each night and add in an Arm day at the end. This hits the bis/tris twice, but they may be a bit tired when you go back to a back/bi routine again. I know mine are.

Yeah thats it. Can you give me some more detail as far as sets/reps/exercises? What day do you suggest I add the arm workout? Also, hows this routine working out for you? Thanks

[SoMdHunter]

Originally Posted by storm88

Yeah thats it. Can you give me some more detail as far as sets/reps/exercises? What day do you suggest I add the arm workout? Also, hows this routine working out for you? Thanks

Here is an example of my 4 day routine:

Mon: Back/Bi 4-5 exercises for back, and 2 dedicated just to bi's

Tue: Chest/Tri 4-5 execises for chest, and 2 dedicated just to tri's

Wed: Off

Thur: Legs/Abs 4-5 sets for legs (quads, hams, calves...you pick which exercises you want) and 3 sets for abs

Fri: Shoulders/traps 4-5 sets for shoulders and 2-3 sets of shrugs for traps.


If you want to do a 5 day routine, move legs to Wed, Shoulders/traps to Thurs and do arms on Fri. For arms, I'll do 4 sets for tri's and 4 sets for bi's. I always take the weekend off. If I have hit arms really hard on Fri, I notice I am a bit weaker on Mon for back/bi again, so I don't do it often.

I've tried lots of various routines, and this one works very well for me. The trick is every 8 weeks or so, I change exercises and vary the order. It makes a huge difference.
Let me know if you need more info.....

[vinnys025]

Originally Posted by SoMdHunter

Here is an example of my 4 day routine:

Mon: Back/Bi 4-5 exercises for back, and 2 dedicated just to bi's

Tue: Chest/Tri 4-5 execises for chest, and 2 dedicated just to tri's

Wed: Off

Thur: Legs/Abs 4-5 sets for legs (quads, hams, calves...you pick which exercises you want) and 3 sets for abs

Fri: Shoulders/traps 4-5 sets for shoulders and 2-3 sets of shrugs for traps.


If you want to do a 5 day routine, move legs to Wed, Shoulders/traps to Thurs and do arms on Fri. For arms, I'll do 4 sets for tri's and 4 sets for bi's. I always take the weekend off. If I have hit arms really hard on Fri, I notice I am a bit weaker on Mon for back/bi again, so I don't do it often.

I've tried lots of various routines, and this one works very well for me. The trick is every 8 weeks or so, I change exercises and vary the order. It makes a huge difference.
Let me know if you need more info.....

Do you then start all over again, or do you wait till MOnday to start your Back/Bi's again?