Chins...

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    Chins...


    Alright guys so there's only one exercise that kind of gives me trouble, and its Wide Grip Chin Ups. All my other lifts are pretty much up to par, but I can only crank out maybe 2 or 3 wide grip chin ups with good form. I can latpulldown a decent amount of weight too, but can't do pullups that well. I know they'e completely different exercises, and I recognize now that I have to focus more on Wide grip chin ups. I've recently incorporated a decent amount of cardio (5 days a week, 45 mins each) and hope that reducing some bodyweight will help, but are there any exercisese that I should be focusing on to help increase my wide grip chins? Heres my current routine.....

    Lat Pulldowns
    4 sets 8-10 reps

    Deadlift
    4 sets 2-5 reps

    T-Bar Rows
    3 sets 8-10 reps

    Bent Barbell Rows
    3 sets 8-10 reps

    Close grip pulldown
    3 sets 8-10 reps

    Hyperextensions
    4 sets 15-20 reps

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    how much do you weigh and how much are you using on lat pulldowns? there is some carry over for me. your back workout looks fine but i hope you're not doing all that in one session.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    how much do you weigh and how much are you using on lat pulldowns? there is some carry over for me. your back workout looks fine but i hope you're not doing all that in one session.
    I weighed in this morning at 232. On the lat pulldown I finish up with 180 lbs for a good 6-8 reps, performed EXTREMELY strict and controlled, no jerking at all. They are also done from full stretch to well below chin level. Maybe I should change them up and do them a little bit more explosively?? As for my workout, no I dont do them all the time, but rotate out a few. Those are the majority of what I do although I sometimes incorporate exercises such as cable rows and pullovers, but those are the movements that I've been doing most of the time lately. Just wish I could nail these damn chins, its a horrible feeling to look strong and be fairly strong but not be able to crank out at least 12 chins with bodyweight...
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    sounds to me like a simple lack of back strength which will come up in time. i'm lat pulldowning over 300 and change for an easy set of 10 while weighing 265 or so, but i can only get around 15 pullups. just keep on keeping on and they'll come up. fwiw, 'extremely strict and controlled' isn't the best idea for improving explosiveness and power. not that there's anything wrong with it, just not the best thing for all out strength. JMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    sounds to me like a simple lack of back strength which will come up in time. i'm lat pulldowning over 300 and change for an easy set of 10 while weighing 265 or so, but i can only get around 15 pullups. just keep on keeping on and they'll come up. fwiw, 'extremely strict and controlled' isn't the best idea for improving explosiveness and power. not that there's anything wrong with it, just not the best thing for all out strength. JMO.
    Yeah, thats what I was kind of figuring, but just kind of didn't want to realize i guess My back routine just starting improvign recently again due to some nagging injuries but I guess it will just grow in time. Guess I'm going to up the intensity on my pulldowns since its the closest thing to a pulldown (although not the same). I find myself doing a lot of movements slow and controlled when I guess certain exercises can be allowed more english I guess. I just always feel them better and get a much better pump with slow positives and negatives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiKeY ReSp
    Alright guys so there's only one exercise that kind of gives me trouble, and its Wide Grip Chin Ups. All my other lifts are pretty much up to par, but I can only crank out maybe 2 or 3 wide grip chin ups with good form. I can latpulldown a decent amount of weight too, but can't do pullups that well. I know they'e completely different exercises, and I recognize now that I have to focus more on Wide grip chin ups. I've recently incorporated a decent amount of cardio (5 days a week, 45 mins each) and hope that reducing some bodyweight will help, but are there any exercisese that I should be focusing on to help increase my wide grip chins? Heres my current routine.....

    Lat Pulldowns
    4 sets 8-10 reps

    Deadlift
    4 sets 2-5 reps

    T-Bar Rows
    3 sets 8-10 reps

    Bent Barbell Rows
    3 sets 8-10 reps

    Close grip pulldown
    3 sets 8-10 reps

    Hyperextensions
    4 sets 15-20 reps

    Perform seated Rows with a strict straight posture, focus on form, shoulder retraction and contraction. You then peform Light shoulder presses with 15 reps(you should be able to do 3o reps with the weight) followed by a few rotator exercises.

    Goal is to warm up the back and shoulder capsules. WARM UP.

    Than move directly to chins with a little wider than shoulder with grip. You should not go to wide if you can only do 2 reps. you will hurt your shoulders.

    take care
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    I recall an interview with Arnold back in the '70s about doing chins. He would shoot for 75 reps....no matter how many sets he had to do.
    I gave that a shot for about 6 months and the improvement was amazing. I weigh 210 lbs and can now do 15 reps on my first two sets. I then strap-on 25 lbs and bang out 8-10 reps for a couple sets.

    The fact that you can only do a couple reps should be a challenge. Start every back workout with Chins and stick with it.

    Gumbo
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs
    Perform seated Rows with a strict straight posture, focus on form, shoulder retraction and contraction. You then peform Light shoulder presses with 15 reps(you should be able to do 3o reps with the weight) followed by a few rotator exercises.

    Goal is to warm up the back and shoulder capsules. WARM UP.

    Than move directly to chins with a little wider than shoulder with grip. You should not go to wide if you can only do 2 reps. you will hurt your shoulders.

    take care

    I just finished back day not too long ago, but i will DEFINITELY take this approach next week and see how it goes. Now that I think about it, I didn't take too much time warming up before hand and kind of jumped into them. I guess you can say I was a little over anxious.

    Thanks a lot Beelz and USP for the advice and hopefully I'll nail these things soon!

    ....and if I don't, at least I can blame the both of you!





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    You just have to stick with it and keep doing them. Chin ups come with repetition. Do as many as you can as often as you can and you'll see some major gains quickly.
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    I just recently started doing chin ups as part of my routine. I make them my 3rd exercise to make sure I am warmed up. First time I tired, I could only do 4 on the 1st set. Total reps was only 15. Flash forward 3 months, and I can now get out 10 reps on the 1st set, and I keep going to 30 reps, regardless of set count.

    Just keep at it. Your muscles have to learn this new exercise, then you will be amazed at how many you can do!
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    upper back strength is ussually the problem, a few simple exercises that will allow you to use your back more effectively, limiting bi involvment, also increasing chest training effectiveness. A strong teres major will keep your shoulders back during back and chest exerecises check out some exercises with video in this link. Back Exercise Menu
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiKeY ReSp
    I weighed in this morning at 232. On the lat pulldown I finish up with 180 lbs for a good 6-8 reps, performed EXTREMELY strict and controlled, no jerking at all. They are also done from full stretch to well below chin level. Maybe I should change them up and do them a little bit more explosively?? As for my workout, no I dont do them all the time, but rotate out a few. Those are the majority of what I do although I sometimes incorporate exercises such as cable rows and pullovers, but those are the movements that I've been doing most of the time lately. Just wish I could nail these damn chins, its a horrible feeling to look strong and be fairly strong but not be able to crank out at least 12 chins with bodyweight...
    hmm bring up your back strength beezle said it...im only 190 and i can lat pulldown over 200+ lbs fairly easily
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    Assisted pull ups first helped me when I couldnt do them back in the day.

    Have a partner hold your feet while you do the exercise, when you hit failure you can push off a little to finish the rep.

    Helped me go from 2 pull ups, to 30 in a row.

    Of course my shoulders are shot now and my arms would probably fall out if I tried it at this point.
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    Alright guys I just wanted to come back say thank you for all the great advice. It was nice to see how fast everyone here responded and how eager everyone was to help. A special thanks out to those who sent links for additional instruction.

    I would like to say that I am able to perform a few extra reps in wide grip chins lately. Only an additional 2 and sometimes when I'm lucky i get 3 more than usual but gains nonetheless.

    I wanted to post my current back routine of what I did in the gym this last Tuesday and maybe get some opinions. I started a completely different routine focused around upper back strength because that what everyone feels to be the problem so I thought this new back workout would be good.

    Chins
    1 x 20 (done on assisted machine, warm up)
    2 x 12 (assisted as well to get a decent rep #)
    1 x 5 (bodyweight, from dead hang)

    Deadlift
    135 x 20 (warm up)
    225 x 5 (warm up)
    315 x 5
    375 x 3
    425 x 1 PR

    This was great, because just not too long ago I pulled 405 for the first time, so an additional 20 lbs. was VERY nice. I know maxing out often is not a good idea and I'm going to lay off of it for a little while, I just couldn't help it. I'm thinking next time just do another set of 375 x 3?

    Barbell Row
    135 x 12
    165 x 10
    185 x 8

    I start with chins so I have the most strength, then I do the two above exercises for all over general back strength, and the second part of my workout focuses all on upper back.

    Wide Grip Pulldowns
    150 x 12
    160 x 12
    170 x 10

    Close Grip Pulldowns
    160 x 10
    160 x 10
    170 x 8

    Reverse Grip Shoulder Width Pulldowns
    150 x 12
    150 x 12
    160 x 10

    Like I said before, I put two exercises in their to cover most of the back, then completely focus on my upper back. The idea behind it was to incorporate chin-up type exercises and build upper back strength.

    The last 3 exercises (Wide, close grip, and reverse grip pulldowns) are performed with extreme effort put into form, really squeezing and contracting the shoulder blades. I must say that it makes them very sore and pumped up the following days.

    So how does it look guys? Anybody see something I should change? (Remember, I'm trying to build upper back strength)

    Thanks in advance!
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    Nice work mike, nice to get a follow up.
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    I agree, the routine looks solid! The only change I would make, and it would be due to personal preference, is I would do wide grip pulldowns 1st to warm up with. You can control how heavy you want to go. Then do chins about the 3rd exercise after you are good and warm. This way the muscles are warmed up, but not fatigued yet. But like I said, just personal preference. Solid back routine!
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    Quote Originally Posted by somewhatgifted
    Nice work mike, nice to get a follow up.

    NP man! How could I not with all you guys helping me out...I'll re-post in a few weeks and let everyone know how its going...\

    Quote Originally Posted by SoMdHunter
    I agree, the routine looks solid! The only change I would make, and it would be due to personal preference, is I would do wide grip pulldowns 1st to warm up with. You can control how heavy you want to go. Then do chins about the 3rd exercise after you are good and warm. This way the muscles are warmed up, but not fatigued yet. But like I said, just personal preference. Solid back routine!
    I was doing those first for a while, really light to warm up. I actually still do them once in a while and switch it up from time to time. When I do start with the assisted chins however, I put about 100 lbs on the stack (I assumes that takes off 100lbs of bodyweight) so its extremely light and I can really focus in on squeezing and contracting the shoulder blades.

    Hmm...I was also wondering guys, do you think it would be too much to keep good mornings or hypers in their as well?

    But thanks for the input! I'm actually going to start rotating them so next week I'm starting off with pulldowns...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiKeY ReSp
    NP man! How could I not with all you guys helping me out...I'll re-post in a few weeks and let everyone know how its going...\



    I was doing those first for a while, really light to warm up. I actually still do them once in a while and switch it up from time to time. When I do start with the assisted chins however, I put about 100 lbs on the stack (I assumes that takes off 100lbs of bodyweight) so its extremely light and I can really focus in on squeezing and contracting the shoulder blades.

    Hmm...I was also wondering guys, do you think it would be too much to keep good mornings or hypers in their as well?

    But thanks for the input! I'm actually going to start rotating them so next week I'm starting off with pulldowns...
    I like your routine just the way it is. Give it 8 weeks or so, then change it up and add in the good mornings.

    If you do your chins at about your 3rd set, you should be able to go straight with body weight and not worry about the assisted chins. My back has really come along nicely since I started this method.
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    chinups are a true test of strengh everybody cant do them the same i weigh 215 and i start my back day off by doing 4 sets of chinups and i do up to 8 to 10 each set but when started doing them before i gain a lot of strength i only could do about 2 but with time and right workout program your number of chins will go up
  

  
 

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