HST gains for heavier lifters

[mastertech]

Hi everyone. I have been browsing the different training routines and am interested in the gains that I read about from those using HST. I don't mind a loss of strength for a short time if I am going to grow some lean muscle. I would probably use this routine thru the winter months anyway and would go back on a strength training workout during spring. What I was wondering about is the type of gains that the guys weighing over 200 lbs are getting using this style of training. I am about 219-220 right now and been lifting off and on for 17 years. Thanks for the input.

[jonesboy]

it really doesn't matter what size you are. It's the science behind the method. Try it and i garentee that you will not be dissapointed.

[CDB]

Hi everyone. I have been browsing the different training routines and am interested in the gains that I read about from those using HST. I don't mind a loss of strength for a short time if I am going to grow some lean muscle. I would probably use this routine thru the winter months anyway and would go back on a strength training workout during spring. What I was wondering about is the type of gains that the guys weighing over 200 lbs are getting using this style of training. I am about 219-220 right now and been lifting off and on for 17 years. Thanks for the input.

If you have been training that long then do not do the cookie cutter HST workout, the 15, 10, 5, negatives way of doing it. That's one way of doing it. In essence any periodized form of training that keeps volume relatively constant and that progresses the weight upward 'is' HST. For someone like you using the lite weights probably will not do much. You'd be better off designing a cycle that doesn't have you dropping below 85%of your 8 rep max. For example if you want to use the standard HST layout, just modify it a bit and use your 8, 5, and 3 rep maxes for the main portion of the cycle. There's no need to stay away from the heavy weights. With your level of training they're likey the only ones that will get any significant growth going.

Design a cycle around the heavier weights, find your maxes, decondition and give it a go.

[mastertech]

If you have been training that long then do not do the cookie cutter HST workout, the 15, 10, 5, negatives way of doing it. That's one way of doing it. In essence any periodized form of training that keeps volume relatively constant and that progresses the weight upward 'is' HST. For someone like you using the lite weights probably will not do much. You'd be better off designing a cycle that doesn't have you dropping below 85%of your 8 rep max. For example if you want to use the standard HST layout, just modify it a bit and use your 8, 5, and 3 rep maxes for the main portion of the cycle. There's no need to stay away from the heavy weights. With your level of training they're likey the only ones that will get any significant growth going.

So. if I am understanding you correctly, I would just skip the 15-10-5 rep series and go with an 8-5-3 in two week time periods? If so, I would think there wouldn't be much of a strength loss then due to the use of heavier weights. Am I correct in this assumption??

[CDB]

So. if I am understanding you correctly, I would just skip the 15-10-5 rep series and go with an 8-5-3 in two week time periods? If so, I would think there wouldn't be much of a strength loss then due to the use of heavier weights. Am I correct in this assumption??

Bingo.

[jonesboy]

i like the 10 8 5 rep. Believe me after a while it is hard on the body... i would start at 75% and work up.. Either way you will like the results and good luck!!

[CDB]

i like the 10 8 5 rep. Believe me after a while it is hard on the body... i would start at 75% and work up.. Either way you will like the results and good luck!!

That's not bad at all. I just like keeping things as heavy as possible. I get the best benefit that way, HST or otherwise.

[mastertech]

That's not bad at all. I just like keeping things as heavy as possible.

Thats the way I have always lifted also and got the best gains but my body just doesn't recover as fast as it used to. I think I will give this a try as I really respond good to the changeups in workout routines. Thanks guys

[CDB]

Thats the way I have always lifted also and got the best gains but my body just doesn't recover as fast as it used to. I think I will give this a try as I really respond good to the changeups in workout routines. Thanks guys

Same here on the recovery. Leave two days in between workouts instead of one at the heavier end of things. I do, it makes all the difference.

[xtatic]

i was reading about the hst workout and decided to incorporate it into my workout somewhat.

yest i did bi and tri. every excersize i did 3 sets of 6 reps. but my last set was as heavy as i could and the wait for the first two sets were about 5 -10 lbs less then eachother.

for example on on cable pull down i did 73- 93- 103

every excersize i did slow and controlled

[jonesboy]

just make sure you don't goto failure. Progressive load is much more important to muscle growth than always staying close to failure. Unless your on cycle then i like staying about 90% from RM and progressing every workout using a 8 5 5 HST routine cycle. I have made some nice gains that stick with using that routine.

[CDB]

i was reading about the hst workout and decided to incorporate it into my workout somewhat.

yest i did bi and tri. every excersize i did 3 sets of 6 reps. but my last set was as heavy as i could and the wait for the first two sets were about 5 -10 lbs less then eachother.

for example on on cable pull down i did 73- 93- 103

every excersize i did slow and controlled

That's not HST. HST is about progressive load over time, across several workouts, so it means deconditioning and then starting light so you can lift heavier almonst every consecutive workout. Load progression within a single workout doesn't achieve the same thing, it's a tool that helps balance workload over time similar to the way many 5x5 programs are set up. HST means the weight used in your second workout is heavier than the weight in the first, the third workout is heavier than the second, and so forth until you hit your x rep max that you set the cycle around.

[xtatic]

so if my 6 rep max for a certain excersize is 45 i should do say 35 all three sets in week one then go up 5-10 pounds every week????

[CDB]

so if my 6 rep max for a certain excersize is 45 i should do say 35 all three sets in week one then go up 5-10 pounds every week????

For lower weighted exercises that is an option. The ultimate goal is to get a significant increase every workout. Say your five rep max for bench is 255, your weight progression for bench would look like this:

Week 1
140 Monday
145 Wednesday
150 Friday
Week 2
155 Monday
160 Wednesday
165 Friday
Week3
170 Monday
175 Wednesday
180 Friday
Week 4
185 Monday
190 Wednesday
195 Friday
Week 5
205 Monday
215 Wednesday
225 Friday
Week 6
235 Monday
245 Wednesday
255 Friday

If someone's bench was lower, or if they didn't want to work with the lighter weights at the begining of the cycle they could do every workout twice, or simply shorten the cycle, or decrease the interval between load increases. Every workout twice would look like this:

185 Monday
185 Wednesday
190 Friday

190 Monday
195 Wednesday
195 Friday

205 Monday
205 Wednesday
215 Friday

215 Monday
225 Wednesday
225 Friday

235 Monday
235 Wednesday
245 Friday

245 Monday
255 Wednesday
255 Friday

The zip file attached to this contains my current workout sheets. Enter weights and increments at the top of each sheet in the white/no fill parts and the sheet figures out a template for you to use. The HST ones make it easy to see how the system is supposed to work.

[xtatic]

For lower weighted exercises that is an option. The ultimate goal is to get a significant increase every workout. Say your five rep max for bench is 255, your weight progression for bench would look like this:

Week 1
140 Monday
145 Wednesday
150 Friday
Week 2
155 Monday
160 Wednesday
165 Friday
Week3
170 Monday
175 Wednesday
180 Friday
Week 4
185 Monday
190 Wednesday
195 Friday
Week 5
205 Monday
215 Wednesday
225 Friday
Week 6
235 Monday
245 Wednesday
255 Friday

If someone's bench was lower, or if they didn't want to work with the lighter weights at the begining of the cycle they could do every workout twice, or simply shorten the cycle, or decrease the interval between load increases. Every workout twice would look like this:

185 Monday
185 Wednesday
190 Friday

190 Monday
195 Wednesday
195 Friday

205 Monday
205 Wednesday
215 Friday

215 Monday
225 Wednesday
225 Friday

235 Monday
235 Wednesday
245 Friday

245 Monday
255 Wednesday
255 Friday

The zip file attached to this contains my current workout sheets. Enter weights and increments at the top of each sheet in the white/no fill parts and the sheet figures out a template for you to use. The HST ones make it easy to see how the system is supposed to work.

thanks a lot for all your help. i'm currently trying to bulk and gain weight. would this be a good rout for me to take? im currently eating 5k clean cals a day.

[CDB]

thanks a lot for all your help. i'm currently trying to bulk and gain weight. would this be a good rout for me to take? im currently eating 5k clean cals a day.

In my opinion, when done right nothing compares to a good HST fora bulk or a cut. But 'done right' varies a lot between users. I can tell you what I've had the most success with is doing a shorted cluster HST routine followed by a 5x5. I prefer linear to follow HST. If you check in that sheet there should be a linear 5x5. If you figure out your five rep maxes and plug them into the top of that sheet, and then do the same and plug them into the Cluster HST sheet and use the shortened cycle at the bottom first and flow into the 5x5 right afterward you'll get an approximation of the template I use in that instance. Do what you have to in order to make the exercises correlate. Usually I just keep them consistent through the entire cycle. Once you've got your maxes and decondition for a week or two, you can use that setup which I find very nice.

[jonesboy]

CDB wouldn't it look more like this: if his max on bench was 225 and lets say he is doing a 10 8 5 5 hst routine then on the 10's with a max again of 225 it would be.
200 mon 10 reps x2 sets
205 wed
210 fri
215 mon
220 wed
225 fri
your reps doing 8 will be a little heavier say 235 so for 8's
210 mon 8 reps x2 sets
215 wed
220 fri
225 mon
230 wed
235 fri

Isn't it important to go no lower than 70 to 75% of your max? Also just for fyi one of the reasons on the HST website that they mention the basic 15 10 5 structure is that they have found that hypertropy works best in a total rep count of 15 to 20 total reps per exercise. Which is why they do a 15 x1 10 x2 and 5 x3 rep

[CDB]

CDB wouldn't it look more like this: if his max on bench was 225 and lets say he is doing a 10 8 5 5 hst routine then on the 10's with a max again of 225 it would be.
200 mon 10 reps x2 sets
205 wed
210 fri
215 mon
220 wed
225 fri
your reps doing 8 will be a little heavier say 235 so for 8's
210 mon 8 reps x2 sets
215 wed
220 fri
225 mon
230 wed
235 fri

Isn't it important to go no lower than 70 to 75% of your max? Also just for fyi one of the reasons on the HST website that they mention the basic 15 10 5 structure is that they have found that hypertropy works best in a total rep count of 15 to 20 total reps per exercise. Which is why they do a 15 x1 10 x2 and 5 x3 rep

I don't recall seeing that claim on the website. Generally speaking though I've found optimum and tolerable volume to vary a lot between people. The rep scheme and the volume are really irrelevant as you should basically do as much as you can handle without burning out or over training.

The weight progression you used is another way of doing it. Since I favor shorter cycles I always use 5% drop to determine weight progression. I don't have to worry about zig zagging or repeating workouts that way. I was just trying to show real quick what a full cycle's weight progression would look like. Yours is equally valid because what matters is a chronic progression over time. Were he to do a 10,8,5 cycle it probably would look like that.

When they say don't use less than 70-75% of your max that's relative to the rep max. 75% of your 8 rep max if you can bench 240ish by 5 reps is probably somewhere in the 160s or so. There's a lot of room for play there.

[jonesboy]

good point and good info...

[mastertech]

Jonesboy or CDB, I have a question for either of you. I am in the process of setting up my my HST workout and have tried to come up with 2 different wokouts to alternate back and forth my workouts with. I know that HST recommends compound lifts but I also know that certain exercises will yield better gains than others. Since you two have experience with this type of training, I was wondering if you could recommend a few of the "better" exercises.
For example, for the past 8 weeks I have used mostly dumbbells for chest but our gym only goes up to 120's in that weight. I know that I would use more weight(flat bench) when I would get near the end of the training cycle. I like the dummbells B/C they do not aggravate my shoulder which sometimes hurts under heavy loads.(not sure why I have no pain w/ dumbbells)
I downloaded your zip file(CDB), but was unable to open it B/C I do not have Excell.
Thanks in advance