Cant get sore...
- 08-09-2006, 02:56 AM
Cant get sore...
Hey you guys,
I got a question, i love feeeling sore the day after working out, it makes me feel like i earned it, like somethings happening, and like im growing, but it seems like the more i workout the less sore I get. Now, I entirely cant get sore. Ive tried switching up my workouts, u kno, keep the muscles guessing an all, but doesnt really work.
I take supps an stuff that aid recovery, but this makes me just wanna stop taking them, u kno? lol.
Anyway, thanx for any help at all, ttyl.
- 08-09-2006, 04:22 AM
Originally Posted by PolishMan
Don't stop taking supplements, just modify your workout.
It sounds to me like your muscles are not being stressed enough to induce hypertrophy.
How many times in a day/week do you lift? When you are finished working out, do you feel as though you could easily do more? Are your goals to increase size or stamina? How many reps are you completing? How many sets?
If you really want to feel the effects of muscle hypertrophy and size is your goal, then try increasing the weight until you can only complete 3-6 reps and do as many sets as you possibly can.
If stamina is your goal then try 8-12 reps while increasing the amount of sets untill you can't do any more.
Anyways, good luck and keep us posted.
- 08-09-2006, 12:02 PM
I usually do 3 sets of 8, but I do a lot of exercises, forexample, on a chest day:
3x8 dumbell flatbench chestpress
3x8 incline bench
3x8 decline bench
3x8 cable fly
3x8 dumbell fly (u kno, u lay down on bench>? yeah, that one)
3x8 machine pec fly
I can definitely try lowering the reps an see how that goes. Btw, goal is to increase size.
Funny though, cuz when i first started working out, ppl were telling me to do sets of 15, then of 12, then of 10, then of 8, now of 3-6, lol. Whatever works, man, thanks a lot bro, ttyl.
08-09-2006, 12:07 PM
IMO the correlation between hypertrophy and soreness is small. IMO it is a good thing that you are not getting sore often....soreness is created by lactic acid which is a by product of streneous anerobic activity. With that said, it may be time to change up your training as its possible you body has already adpated to the workout and gains may slow.
If you're growing...keep doing what you are doing. Also, you may want to increase the workload in a certain workout. You can also decrease voume and increase intensity.
Also, a general rule of thumb that is to keep exercises for major muscle groups between 4-5. I think 5 may be pushing it some time. Theres a lot of philosophy out there supporting many different types of workout regiments. It's up to you to listen to your body to find out what works.
08-09-2006, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by Rage (SoCal)
I'm sorry for sounding like a **** here but you really should do your homework before you go making statements that are COMPLETELY untrue. And please, by all means.... look into my statements and the truth will follow.
Hypertrophy is the direct reason for muscle soarness. If lactic acid was the reason, then we would only be soar while we worked out and for a short time after, not 1-3 days later.
The main reason for muscle soarness is caused by microscopic tears in the muscle tissue (hypertrophy), and by the rupturing of sacomeres. This causes the buffering systems of the muscle tissue to go into overdrive causing PH levels to fall, creating a state of acidosis.
08-09-2006, 02:48 PM
You're not sounding like an @ss. But...I believe there is no definite answer for this question. What causes DOMS? We aren't sure. It may be the build up of lactic acid and other waste by-products or it could be because microscopic tears in muscle fibers like you mentioned. Either or, just because one doesn't get sore anymore doesn't mean they are gaining body mass, does it? If so, then I can no explain growing without being sore....I mean I have done it but can't explain it then.Originally Posted by NO HYPE
I think the conditions for either situation of soreness depends on many variables for example being sore from light jogging vs. being sore from heavy weight training.
Also, I don't know if I would consider microscopic tears in muscles hypertrophy. I can go into the gym, bench 245 for 3 reps and be sore as hell tomorrow. Will any hypertrophy occur? I'm not sure but I no I won't consider soreness a sign of me getting bigger.
08-09-2006, 03:27 PM
Based on what you have indicated here, I'd say that you need to increase the weight first. If that doesn't work, keep the weight heavy and try lowering the reps to around 3-6 but no more than 8. Add enough weight so that by the end of the third set, you couldn't possibly do any more, not even one.Originally Posted by PolishMan
You should also try increasing the amount of sets. If that still doesn't work.... than do everything that you've done.... a second time.
I realize that you've probably heard a million different things, but I'm gonna give ya this info and you are welcome to look into it as you will see that it is not opinion but fact.
There are two different types of hypertrophy wich occur to muscle tissue during and after a workout.
(1) Myofibrillar Hypertrophy= Low reps (3-8) Increase sets.
This increases the.... "size" of the contractile portion of
(2) Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy = High reps (8-20) Decrease
sets. This increases the...."strength" of the non contractile
portion of the muscle.
08-09-2006, 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by Rage (SoCal)
(1) You might not, but it is.
(2) Yes, it will.
(3) That's ok, but you can't get bigger without getting soar.
08-14-2006, 10:08 PM
i got the same problem....the muscle just feel taxed the next day on some occasions it will be sore but only for legs.
08-15-2006, 01:50 PM
I personally think that's overkill. In my case, if I were able to do something like that on my chest day, I would personally feel like I didn't accomplish anything. I get one hell of a workout due to the intensity I put into every rep and set with doing just 5-6 sets for chest. I'm still kind of hurting from last Friday today.Originally Posted by PolishMan
I would up the intensity and cut out all the overkill excercises IMO, especially the machine pec flies.
08-15-2006, 04:57 PM
You should try some drastic/crazy workout stuff like tri-setting or even supersets. Do a set of flat bench presses then quickly move to a set of pulldowns and that'll be one superset. Also try one regular set of flat bench and then grab some 35 lbs dumbbells and keep pushing them up until you can't do anymore for one set. Keep growing man!
08-15-2006, 06:20 PM
- 5'8" 195 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Rep Power
I almost always feel sore about 18 - 24 hours after a workout. You could drop one or of your exercises from a given routine and throw in something different & stick to that until u plataeu with it. Just try exchanging something new in place of something u have been doing for a while. I also like to do a good drop set when I'm ending a workout and still feel unsatisfied (doesn't happen too often, but occassionally it does ).Originally Posted by DazzlinJack
You could probably ask 100 different people and get 100 different answers...
08-16-2006, 02:03 AM
I lowered my reps to 4, and my chest is sore!!! not like really really sore, but I can feel stretching everytime i reach for something. Same with legs
Also the thing is, back was yesterday, and im not the slightest bit sore, but I dont think its the same problem. Ive never gotten my back sore, except one time, and I remember it. Sad, no? I always thought I was doing something wrong, bad form or something, but I asked some trainers to critique me and they said nothing..... Dunno, I cut down the reps an stuff, but still no back soreness.
Also, this is off subject, but when should I use a weight/hernia belt? Just for squats? or leg presses too? Is it neccessary?
Thanks a lot guys, youre all a tremendous help and I envy your knowledge.
Also one more thing, just came to mind. Some guy (my buddy) made fun of me the other day for doing deadlifts on leg days. Is he stupid or am I? I thought the main focus was on your glutes, and I max out all the machines, so I stick to leg press, squats, deadlifts, and other stuff thats not really machines. Whos stupid?
08-16-2006, 02:35 AM
If soreness is what you're after, it may help to increase the time under tension of your worksets. In other words, slow the negative portion of your lifts down and really focus on controlling the weight with the target muscles. A slight drop in weight moved combined with longer negatives, and really focusing on squeezing the target muscles really made a difference in the feel I got from my workouts.
08-16-2006, 04:39 AM
Congrats on achieving soarness. As far as your back is concerned, how do you explain achieving soarness once but not again? Try repeating the workout that you did the day you felt it with a steady increase in weight. Just make sure you are always at the point of max out when you reach the end of your 3-6 rep range.Originally Posted by PolishMan
I don't know about you, but I consider deadlifts to be the ultimate back workout. I feel almost no pain in the legs a day or two later but the back.... fuget a bout it.
In my experience, I've found that proper form, very slow movement, and 3-6 reps during a workout is the best way to induce hypertrophy. On a side note, I've never used a belt for any exercise.... just proper form.
Keep us posted.
08-16-2006, 06:32 AM
What's it like to not get sore?? I've been lifting for 25+ years and I'm sore all the friggen time! If your not sore, whether it's your back, chest, arms or whatever it's because you did not go beyond what your body can handle. Heavier weights, Time Under Tension, More reps, less reps it doesn't matter which method you use, it's all about exceeding your body's capabilities. If you can Bench press 315x8 and you do a 9th rep and get it, chances are you'll know it the next day. If you tie yourself to set reps and put a weight that you know your capable of doing then don't expect to be sore.
i.e. 3sets of 8reps, if you can do that, it's time to add weight, always more, always harder, trust me you'll be sore! But when you approach a w/o in this manner you'll understand why people think your doing to many movements for chest!
The question is what do you want? If you want more, take it, if not keep cruisin'
08-16-2006, 12:37 PM
Originally Posted by Basso
PL'er mentality but agreed. I don't do a ton of stuff but when I am pushing it, I know. Hell, I have been having trouble walking the past 3 days and I only did 2 movements with low reps!!!
08-16-2006, 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by Basso
That is good ****in advice. Alright, youve motivated me. Imma go try an bench press 500 tonight. To bad I got no one to spot me..... lol. J/k man. but seriously, ima go puch myself some more. I ctually stopped getting sore when my w/o buddy left to brazil, and I started working out alone. No one to push me or spot me for really hard sets. That might explain it, no? Anyway, I cant walk today, my legs are ****in hurting. crazy sore. Today is chest again, Ima go push that **** an get sore. but back, man, I dunno what Im doing wrong...... back never gets sore..... I mean uupper back, like lats an traps.
Also, bonus qwestion, ----> SHould you flex your abs when doing squats/leg presses? (another argument btw me an my freind)
08-17-2006, 01:57 AM
What are you doing for Upper Back? Other than DL, you should include a compound movement like bb bentover rows or T-bar rows. You can load the bar up and really hit the lats hard. Every Lat movement try to touch your shoulder blades together, most people have trouble keeping their arms out of the movement, remember use the lats to pull the weight not your bis. Traps are easy, Heavy shrugs (not in a smith) hold each rep for 1-3sec for sets of at least 6 reps+ do 4 sets of those and you won't be able touch your traps the next day!
Push you stomach out when doing squats so yes sort of.
08-17-2006, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by PolishMan
Or another for traps, try the power shrug. You'll feel them, trust me.
08-28-2006, 07:10 PM
[I'm new here so would somebody direct me to the appropriate place to introduce myself and get the feel for this place]?
Anyways, wouldn't you get sore by doing a few exercises per body part at the maximum weights you can lift? Like 2 sets of 6 reps at max weight? (At least that's what I do and my muscles are hard and sore for at most 24 hours lol)
03-13-2007, 10:09 PM
To say that you won't grow if you do not get sore is false.
You can grow whether you get sore or not. Will you get grow everytime if you do not get sore? Probably, but only if you really know what you are doing. Not to mention hypertrophy is obviously related to nutritional intake. So if one is on a hypercaloric diet and not getting sore, they will almost always see muscle growth.
From Mel Siff's Supertraining, 6th ed. page 230:
This is nothing definitive, however, it does lend support to the argument that more muscle fiber damage leads to more hypertrophy. I realize that some may point out that soreness is not covered. However, as seen above, hypertrophy, soreness, and fiber damage are often grouped together. This is specifically targeted at that argument.It is known that eccentric exercise tends to produce greater and more rapid increases in muscle strength and hypertrophy than concentric exercise...it is sometimes suggested that this may be the result of greater tissue damage being produced under eccentric conditions. Recent work, however, has discovered that the increase in myofibral cross-sectional area is much the same in unchanged muscle fibres following concentric exercise as that following eccentric exercise, which is more damaging. These results do not support the hypothesis that fibre hypertrophy depends on the extent of the fibre damage in exercised muscles.
03-13-2007, 10:12 PM
03-13-2007, 10:25 PM
So the consensus is you have to get sore to grow?
03-14-2007, 02:56 AM
03-14-2007, 08:29 AM
In grad school we had to memorize eight different theories behind DOMS, everyone one of them had a problem. The funny thing about lactic acid...it's produced in the muscle as a result of muscular contractions, but the type 3 and 4 nerves that feel pain do not exist in the muscle, only the connective tissue surrounding it.
Pain is also a protective mechanism your body has, touch something hot and you jerk your hand away. DOMS will not set in until 12 hours later or more. So it's not really protecting us from anything by the definition of pain.
For all we know, soreness has nothing to do with growth or strength, or even how hard you worked out. NOBODY fully understands what causes it, so it's impossible to say if it's doing anything good or bad.
03-14-2007, 08:44 AM
I've been growing quitea bit recently. I haven't gotten sore in well over 2 months. The reason I was getting sore then was because I had taken so much time off and my body was getting reaclumated to the workouts...
I'm sorry but I think that you should gauge your gains by the scale and the mirror, not by how sore you are or whether or not you feel sore...
03-14-2007, 09:13 AM
ahhhhhhhhhhh ok I feel better now. I thought maybe my muscles were a figment of my imagination as I almost never get sore
BTW Crunch how would you know if you could build muscle without being sore, who do you know with muscles bwaha . . . Just kidding. DANG your avatar is good! Not bad for an older guy
I am kidding because I am a grampa so definitely older than you
03-14-2007, 09:50 AM
I agree too, I'm almost never sore. Only when I change up my workouts and do something new. Then I'll be sore for a couple days, but then it just goes away, no matter how hard I train. And I do hit it hard everytime!
03-14-2007, 10:59 AM
03-14-2007, 11:31 AM
03-14-2007, 12:18 PM
03-14-2007, 12:41 PM
I had a time when I copuldnt get my bicepts sore.... no matter what I did... they had become accustom to such intensity, that I just couldnt top the level they were used to, even switching it up using every trick. ... simple solution, took 2 weeks and mever worked bicepts directly.
You would be VERY suprised to actually find out the difference between what your doing in the gym, and what you ACTUALLY doing in the gym
03-14-2007, 12:55 PM
And on a side note, I remember something about:
-You induce microtrauma (tearing of the muscle)
(now, I used to think that these tears just scared over, like a burn or something)
- muscle fibers are comprised of sections, of different size. What the tears USUALLY are, are the weaker "links" in the fiber "breaking" ...
-the damaged section, would then send out signals for break itself down and and then rebuild that section to match some of the larger section in that fiber t ocompensate and anticipate this increased workload.
-ok,.. now, I beleive I was looking into the process where IGF-1 is spliced into Mechano growth factor, searching for possible chemical messengers or responses to do this...
Biology is just logic.... which is funny :P We just havent figured out all the pices.
-If I confused the hell out of myself I appoligize for spreading my ignorance.
I blame it on bad genetics
03-14-2007, 01:11 PM
Now I'm confusing myself as well flossy!!!
03-14-2007, 01:46 PM
HAving IMMEDIEATE pain would be detrimental to survival! Obviously, stressing your muscles for hard work (like hunting / gathering) would lead to starvation if you could not complete the task. The soreness must be felt durring times of REPAIR,.. not the task itself..
(lol- just kinda throwing that out as a possibility,.. Im kinda into evoluitionairy biology/sexuality at the moment :P)
03-14-2007, 02:15 PM
Have you ever played a sport and gotten an injury during a play, but you keep going. You fully know you've hurt something, and it's GONNA hurt as soon as you stop. You've got that "oh crap" voice in your head that also says keep going, it's not going to get any worse!! Hate that voice!
We're getting too damn nit-picky here! LOL!
If DOMS was going to fit the pain definition, than it should at least start to hurt within a few minutes. But it can wait as long as 72 hours to set in.
The whole thing is very interesting, it will be cool if the scientists out there ever completely figure out DOMS, and especially whether or not it is something good or bad for strength/development.
03-14-2007, 03:25 PM
ok, ok ,.. so that would be injury... and those would involve nerves other then the ones in muscle tissue. We would also be talking about injusry to other things, not just muscle tissue. For instance:
When you try to bench WAY to much, you may strain connective tissue, ligiments, or dislocate your shoulder...
That would be debilitating pain, causeing more or less the immedieate hault to that activity. If your in a fight or flight senerio, addrenaline would mask this signal temporarily. But , right after, you would definately feel it.
DOMS, on the other hand, normally doesnt occur in fight or flight "mode",.. AND (more importantly) doesn't comprimise life, as tearing a shoulder would.
The body is also built to make adaptive changes with muscle. That is why muscle heals in days and bones take months to heal.
IT's priority coupled with necessity. It is "delayed" bacause the body requires building blocks to make that adaptive change... and it would be innefficiant to use the muscle at 100% (that would keep damaging it) durring the rebuilding phase.
Plus, soreness doesn't equate to pain. It is a physicial awareness or "alert" I would think.
Pain is something debilitating, along with the enability for fast repair.
I dont think that the tearing of muscle fibers on a small level produce immedieate pain (tearing a pec would,.. but then again, you couldn't use that muscle afterwords)... I beleive that the DOMS has more to do with many, many other factors regarding the adaptive process,.. one of which is actually being aware of the current limits on your own abilities or strength. another could be (and Im stretchin here.. a lot) is the sectional breakdown through acidic something or other ...
If your going to break down damaged fiber sections, its going to happen (after the fact) through some biologicial process, like "dissolving" the tissue, and reusing what it can in addition to proteins n' such. So DOMS could just be a gauge of the amount of that activity, coupled with an awareness that you busted your ass:
In the "old days", this worked out great, becasue if you broke down tissue hunting, well,.. youve got a huge ass rhino to eat afterwards And if you botched the job,.. your body would still break down, but it wouldn't hypertroph as much, if anythign else, it would get smaller,.. since that process is influenced by diet primarily..
OK_ I should just stop becasue Im turning this into a Fictional thread probably :P
sorry... Im just in that theoritical, problem thinking mood
03-14-2007, 03:33 PM
A rhino burger sounds kind of good right now.
03-15-2007, 12:45 PM
HOLY CRAP xtraflossy what the heck happened to you, you have all sorts of bulgy things popping out and little worms on your arms.
And to Crunch, 2% LOWER WTH
That is is I was just going to do a www.IHateCrunch.com website but Xtraflossy with your new avy you just earned yourself an I Hate you website too mister. You two just keep it up and it will get worse!
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