[CDONDICI]

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

(3) That's ok, but you can't get bigger without getting soar.

This is a false statement.


I rarely ever get sore and have gained about 30 some pounds in the last year or so.

[CRUNCH]

Originally Posted by dontknowaboutme

I am very rarely sore unless I have a long layoff in the gym due to illness, etc.


Crunch what is your bodyfat in your avatar?

It was about 7% in that pic.

[xtraflossy]

Originally Posted by PolishMan

That is good ****in advice. Alright, youve motivated me. Imma go try an bench press 500 tonight. To bad I got no one to spot me..... lol. J/k man. but seriously, ima go puch myself some more. I ctually stopped getting sore when my w/o buddy left to brazil, and I started working out alone. No one to push me or spot me for really hard sets. That might explain it, no? Anyway, I cant walk today, my legs are ****in hurting. crazy sore. Today is chest again, Ima go push that **** an get sore. but back, man, I dunno what Im doing wrong...... back never gets sore..... I mean uupper back, like lats an traps.



Also, bonus qwestion, ----> SHould you flex your abs when doing squats/leg presses? (another argument btw me an my freind)

I found that if you just write down your reps and sets, and each time, do more, either reps or higher weight, you cant avaoid soreness.

I had a time when I copuldnt get my bicepts sore.... no matter what I did... they had become accustom to such intensity, that I just couldnt top the level they were used to, even switching it up using every trick. ... simple solution, took 2 weeks and mever worked bicepts directly.

You would be VERY suprised to actually find out the difference between what your doing in the gym, and what you ACTUALLY doing in the gym

[xtraflossy]

Originally Posted by CRUNCH

Me neither! And before someone tells me to do my homework, I've got a masters in ex phys. I've done plenty of homework.

In grad school we had to memorize eight different theories behind DOMS, everyone one of them had a problem. The funny thing about lactic acid...it's produced in the muscle as a result of muscular contractions, but the type 3 and 4 nerves that feel pain do not exist in the muscle, only the connective tissue surrounding it.

Pain is also a protective mechanism your body has, touch something hot and you jerk your hand away. DOMS will not set in until 12 hours later or more. So it's not really protecting us from anything by the definition of pain.

For all we know, soreness has nothing to do with growth or strength, or even how hard you worked out. NOBODY fully understands what causes it, so it's impossible to say if it's doing anything good or bad.

PAin would also be a biological response to damage or injury.. Pain (or soreness) from increased workload would serve a purpose to make us not use a particular muscle until that damage has been repaired to the point of functional restoration (whatever decides your good enough to not need to worry about the damage anymore)

And on a side note, I remember something about:
-You induce microtrauma (tearing of the muscle)
(now, I used to think that these tears just scared over, like a burn or something)
- muscle fibers are comprised of sections, of different size. What the tears USUALLY are, are the weaker "links" in the fiber "breaking" ...
-the damaged section, would then send out signals for break itself down and and then rebuild that section to match some of the larger section in that fiber t ocompensate and anticipate this increased workload.

-ok,.. now, I beleive I was looking into the process where IGF-1 is spliced into Mechano growth factor, searching for possible chemical messengers or responses to do this...
Biology is just logic.... which is funny :P We just havent figured out all the pices.

-If I confused the hell out of myself I appoligize for spreading my ignorance.
I blame it on bad genetics

[CRUNCH]

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

PAin would also be a biological response to damage or injury.. Pain (or soreness) from increased workload would serve a purpose to make us not use a particular muscle until that damage has been repaired to the point of functional restoration (whatever decides your good enough to not need to worry about the damage anymore)

And on a side note, I remember something about:
-You induce microtrauma (tearing of the muscle)
(now, I used to think that these tears just scared over, like a burn or something)
- muscle fibers are comprised of sections, of different size. What the tears USUALLY are, are the weaker "links" in the fiber "breaking" ...
-the damaged section, would then send out signals for break itself down and and then rebuild that section to match some of the larger section in that fiber t ocompensate and anticipate this increased workload.

-ok,.. now, I beleive I was looking into the process where IGF-1 is spliced into Mechano growth factor, searching for possible chemical messengers or responses to do this...
Biology is just logic.... which is funny :P We just havent figured out all the pices.

-If I confused the hell out of myself I appoligize for spreading my ignorance.
I blame it on bad genetics

I know what you're saying about pain, my little piece was a very general overview. But still holds true to a degree. If we damage something in our body, the pain should be immediate so that we know what caused it, and DOMS doesn't fit that very well, if indeed "damage", (as in something bad) is occuring. The damage caused be lifting, may not necessarily be a bad thing, but an adaptive response, and maybe that's why the pain definition doesn't fit.

Now I'm confusing myself as well flossy!!!

[xtraflossy]

Originally Posted by CRUNCH

I know what you're saying about pain, my little piece was a very general overview. But still holds true to a degree. If we damage something in our body, the pain should be immediate so that we know what caused it, and DOMS doesn't fit that very well, if indeed "damage", (as in something bad) is occuring. The damage caused be lifting, may not necessarily be a bad thing, but an adaptive response, and maybe that's why the pain definition doesn't fit.

Now I'm confusing myself as well flossy!!!

BUT-
HAving IMMEDIEATE pain would be detrimental to survival! Obviously, stressing your muscles for hard work (like hunting / gathering) would lead to starvation if you could not complete the task. The soreness must be felt durring times of REPAIR,.. not the task itself..
(lol- just kinda throwing that out as a possibility,.. Im kinda into evoluitionairy biology/sexuality at the moment :P)

[CRUNCH]

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

BUT-
HAving IMMEDIEATE pain would be detrimental to survival! Obviously, stressing your muscles for hard work (like hunting / gathering) would lead to starvation if you could not complete the task. The soreness must be felt durring times of REPAIR,.. not the task itself..
(lol- just kinda throwing that out as a possibility,.. Im kinda into evoluitionairy biology/sexuality at the moment :P)

Hmmm...good point. In a situation where you're hunting and you get hurt, there sometimes is immediate pain, it's just not noticed due to addrenaline or other stress hormones.

Have you ever played a sport and gotten an injury during a play, but you keep going. You fully know you've hurt something, and it's GONNA hurt as soon as you stop. You've got that "oh crap" voice in your head that also says keep going, it's not going to get any worse!! Hate that voice!

We're getting too damn nit-picky here! LOL!

If DOMS was going to fit the pain definition, than it should at least start to hurt within a few minutes. But it can wait as long as 72 hours to set in.

The whole thing is very interesting, it will be cool if the scientists out there ever completely figure out DOMS, and especially whether or not it is something good or bad for strength/development.

[xtraflossy]

ok, ok ,.. so that would be injury... and those would involve nerves other then the ones in muscle tissue. We would also be talking about injusry to other things, not just muscle tissue. For instance:
When you try to bench WAY to much, you may strain connective tissue, ligiments, or dislocate your shoulder...
That would be debilitating pain, causeing more or less the immedieate hault to that activity. If your in a fight or flight senerio, addrenaline would mask this signal temporarily. But , right after, you would definately feel it.

DOMS, on the other hand, normally doesnt occur in fight or flight "mode",.. AND (more importantly) doesn't comprimise life, as tearing a shoulder would.
The body is also built to make adaptive changes with muscle. That is why muscle heals in days and bones take months to heal.
IT's priority coupled with necessity. It is "delayed" bacause the body requires building blocks to make that adaptive change... and it would be innefficiant to use the muscle at 100% (that would keep damaging it) durring the rebuilding phase.

Plus, soreness doesn't equate to pain. It is a physicial awareness or "alert" I would think.
Pain is something debilitating, along with the enability for fast repair.

I dont think that the tearing of muscle fibers on a small level produce immedieate pain (tearing a pec would,.. but then again, you couldn't use that muscle afterwords)... I beleive that the DOMS has more to do with many, many other factors regarding the adaptive process,.. one of which is actually being aware of the current limits on your own abilities or strength. another could be (and Im stretchin here.. a lot) is the sectional breakdown through acidic something or other ...
If your going to break down damaged fiber sections, its going to happen (after the fact) through some biologicial process, like "dissolving" the tissue, and reusing what it can in addition to proteins n' such. So DOMS could just be a gauge of the amount of that activity, coupled with an awareness that you busted your ass:
In the "old days", this worked out great, becasue if you broke down tissue hunting, well,.. youve got a huge ass rhino to eat afterwards And if you botched the job,.. your body would still break down, but it wouldn't hypertroph as much, if anythign else, it would get smaller,.. since that process is influenced by diet primarily..

OK_ I should just stop becasue Im turning this into a Fictional thread probably :P
sorry... Im just in that theoritical, problem thinking mood

[CRUNCH]

A rhino burger sounds kind of good right now.

[CROWLER]

HOLY CRAP xtraflossy what the heck happened to you, you have all sorts of bulgy things popping out and little worms on your arms.

And to Crunch, 2% LOWER WTH

That is is I was just going to do a www.IHateCrunch.com website but Xtraflossy with your new avy you just earned yourself an I Hate you website too mister. You two just keep it up and it will get worse!


CROWLER

[CRUNCH]

It's all due to or AI sups!!!

[xtraflossy]

Originally Posted by CROWLER

HOLY CRAP xtraflossy what the heck happened to you, you have all sorts of bulgy things popping out and little worms on your arms.

And to Crunch, 2% LOWER WTH

That is is I was just going to do a www.IHateCrunch.com website but Xtraflossy with your new avy you just earned yourself an I Hate you website too mister. You two just keep it up and it will get worse!


CROWLER

lol,.. yeah,.. I got worms
you know , ........these things happen
I've never had a website before -even if it IS just all about hate

[xtraflossy]

Originally Posted by CRUNCH

It's all due to or AI sups!!!

It's all due to or <Insert your brand name here> AI sups!!!


(shakes head in dissapointment in himself,... a long sigh makes it's way into the open, as I mutter "I can be such a whore sometimes" )

[Nutz]

Ive grown significantly, and I dont generally get sore at all, esp. if im on cycle.

however, I did shrugs for the first time in months yesterday, and god my traps hurt just goes to show its muscle specific, do something taxing that your not used to, and you will probably get sore