Holy TUT training! Ouch :)
- 05-16-2006, 04:10 PM
Holy TUT training! Ouch :)
Thank you B5150, bioman, bpmartyr and mulletsoldier for pointing me in the right direction.... Just finished my arms and it was one hell of a work out.... How long can you stay with this type of training? Hope I'm doing it right... It takes me about 8 sec to finish each rep (on the average) Today I did (4x8 incline DB curls), (4x8 preacher curls), (4x8 tricept extension rope) and (4x8 scull crushers)..... Boy could I feel it.
- 05-16-2006, 04:27 PM
I have only been on the program for 2.5 months, and I have already taken two, one week breaks. So I wouldn't suggest going any longer than 6-8 weeks without one, but I guess it's all relative to your body. Also, to avoid overtraining I would also consider lowering your volume.
- 05-16-2006, 04:39 PM
I have been developing a hybrid 4 days a week TUT/HST program split. I have reduced volume and increased frequency.
Split 1A: Monday
Trap Bar Shrugs - 2 sets
O/H Neck High Bent Rows - 2 sets
U/H Seats Cable Rows - 2 sets
BB Upright Rows - 2 sets
BB Curls - 2 sets
Split 1B: Tues
Smith Rack Military - 2 sets
Incline BB Bench Press - 2 sets
Close Grip Bench - 2 sets
Squats - 2 sets
Walking Lunges - 2 sets
Split 2A: Weds
DB Shrugs - 2 sets
O/H Seated Cable Rows - 2 sets
U/H Grip Bent Rows - 2 sets
DB Lateral Raise - 2 sets
DB Curls - 2 sets
Split 2B: Thurs
DB Shoulder Press - 2 sets
Incline DB Press - 2 sets
Scull Crushers - 2 sets
Squats - 2 sets
Walking Lunges - 2 sets
Right now I am still developing it through trial and error with rep ranges and weights utilized. Ideally I would like to do week 1 at 16-20 reps, week 2 at 12-16 reps, week 3 at 8-12 reps and week 4 at 4-8 reps. This is my first time through it where I am really focusing on loging my training again and have done week one (16-20 reps) two weeks in a row because I am still working out the weight requirements. Some too low and some too high. When you do 20 strict TUT form reps of BB bench press you have no need to use too much weight. I was surprised how little was needed
I am enjoying my training again. I am meticulous about logging my data so I can get more effecient and effective on my next cycle of this type routine. I'm sure my second week (12-16 reps) will be repeated as well so I can nail down my weights. Even though I am repeating weeks reps schemes I am improving a rep or two. Ideally when I can do both sets of each reps range at max reps I will increase the weight a increment the next split to drop me back down to the low end of the rep range. I may add a 2-4 rep week (kind of difficult with TUT IME) and certainly a week off for a total of six week cycle.
I am just trying to experiment with various techniques that I have used throughout the last 4-5 years experience.
05-16-2006, 05:50 PM
Looks interesting, B! I'd love to see what you arrive at as optimum.
Hey Jim, if you think you're sour now, wait till tomorrow
BTW, wait until chest and leg days
05-16-2006, 05:56 PM
Yeah that's what I've been experiencing with my routine, but I do full body each workout and only workout 3x / week... Loving TUT though so far, I'm supersetting incline DB curls w/ cable curls and I can seriously see my biceps getting bigger by the workout... It's ridiculous
05-16-2006, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by B5150
That is a pretty cool idea B..Like Beo said, once you nail a better formula down I would be very interested in giving it a try. Would there be any way for you to reach me or vice versa?..Or is mod/member fraternizing forbidden..hehe
05-16-2006, 07:59 PM
Thanks guys. I'm still experimenting. I am trying to encorporate periodization, TUT and HST (progressive overload) with an attemp to stimulate hypertrophy and avoid adaptation.Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
Some of my exercise choices are limited to my home gym equipment, with a few engineered pieces that work quite well.
But, like I said, the idea is progressive overload, hypertrophy, periodization, avoiding adaptation.I will reach you when I get something together that will cover a cycle of about 6 weeks or so.Would there be any way for you to reach me or vice versa?..No, this sort of activity is encouraged. Open board sucking up and ego stroking is also very welcomedOr is mod/member fraternizing forbidden..hehe
05-16-2006, 08:07 PM
My your chest is looking fuller these days B5150, it must be from all that repping 500 you have been doing..Like that?
05-16-2006, 08:28 PM
More like 50's...we are talking about TUT . But I think you're getting the ideaOriginally Posted by Mulletsoldier
05-16-2006, 08:32 PM
Oh, I hear you on that..I remember the first time I did DB Military I used 40lbs!!..And 25lbs on DB curls for biceps..Guys at the gym are just lookin at you so weird..Like, "why is he more cut then me and using a 25lb weight"..Makes me laugh.Originally Posted by B5150
05-17-2006, 07:14 AM
I'd definitely be interested in reading more about this once you've got it dialed in. I have a spreadsheet I put together with a similar routine. It's a four day a week upper/lower split with a clustered HST workout done twice a week with a lower weight given for metabolic work use done the other two days.Originally Posted by B5150
05-17-2006, 07:15 AM
I was doing Bis and Tris last night. The only caution I have is with tris, looks like I over did TUT on skull crushers, too many sets and reps, and tweaked my elbow a little, but overall I love the training.
05-17-2006, 07:22 AM
LOL, I can't even put my arms out straight this morning and my chest is still a little sore from Monday's workout.... Will this happen all the time or will my body adjust to it? By the way, I'm leaving on a cruise to Bermuda next Sunday.... That will be my week off. We went on the same cruise 7 years ago. My wife said last night, "at least this time when we go to the beach you will be carrying your 6 pack around on your stomach instead of in you hand".Originally Posted by Beowulf
05-17-2006, 10:18 AM
Yeah, it will subside. With the extended eccentric portion of the lift you are actually causing more microtrauma and so DOMS is inevitable. But, you will get used to it.
05-17-2006, 10:38 AM
You should check out some of the research at the Hypertrophy Research site in my sig. Microtrauma isn't necessary for muscle growth, and I think the main benefit to TUT training techniques is actually the ATP turnover rates. If you haven't already, check out the article Enegetics by Ron sowers at that site, and the occlusion studies brought up when people were discussing ACIT training. It's interesting stuff.Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
05-17-2006, 12:16 PM
That is a cool link man.
05-18-2006, 06:52 AM
Damn did chest last night and Wow! god I did bench with 200 lbs and nearly ripped the muscle from the bone, well at least that is how it felt. Inclines with 60's and flyes with 40's - too light though.
It was intense.
05-18-2006, 07:52 AM
That is what makes it all worthwhileOriginally Posted by Jim Mills
05-18-2006, 10:16 AM
Thanks! Now I feel more like a light-weight.Originally Posted by flytrapcan
05-18-2006, 10:34 AM
- 6'1" 221 lbs.
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
- Rep Power
Its not necessary but there are certain correlations between increased microtrauma and increase MGF release. But once again there is a fine line and I find no research and/or experience that shows a difference between a 3 second negative and a longer one. It simply becomes overkill IMO.Originally Posted by CDB
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
05-18-2006, 10:47 AM
Meaning you're not a fan of TUT Bobo?
05-18-2006, 10:51 AM
In my experience, limited as it might be, anything longer than 3 seconds seems to only result in energy expenditure and just draws out my workout to the point of lost interest and motivation. Though it may not be a scientific factor it is significant to me. I employ the 3-1-2 to 3-1-1 tempo most times to keep things moving. JMO
05-18-2006, 11:04 AM
True. I think the main practical benefit people get from TUT training is by concentrating on the timing of the reps the eliminate bouncing and other cheats that might compromise tension, and so this might translate into a bit of a better ATP turnover. Plus the fatigue could help with metabolic signalling. It's all different roads to the same destination in my opinion these days. I don't care who trains what or how, so long as how I train works for me. 5x5 seems to be the most agreeable with my goals, physical condition and mental approach. Though the loading phase is likely to kill me.Originally Posted by Bobo
05-18-2006, 11:05 AM
I beleive if you go look at some of the logs on his FLA Training forum you'll see that Bobo incorporates TUT in his cutting/bulking phases... I beleive he just switches up the amount of time for the eccentric and cocentric each week to keep the muscles from "remembering" or to keep the stimulus upOriginally Posted by wideguy
05-18-2006, 11:08 AM
Originally Posted by Bobo
My problem is getting that 3 seconds, seems I always hit the 4 -5 second range, but with practice...
05-18-2006, 11:09 AM
Overkill is a problem. The increased energy use should actually be good if it wasn't for the fatigue that came with it, and maybe even that doesn't matter all that much. That seems to the approach of the new Max Stimulation routine I posted a while ago: limit/eliminate fatigue but keep energy turnover high. Unfortunately I go cross eyed when I try to connect the dots of all the metabolic pathways that do this and that, so I just stick to eating a lifting and *****ing about my knees. TUT is very important, I don't think Bobo would argue that in the slightest. It just doesn't mean you have to spend massive amounts of time to achieve enough TUT. A controlled rep with a slight pause at the top and bottom is usually enough.Originally Posted by B5150
05-18-2006, 11:21 AM
Biomechanically doesnt it make more sense to do an explosive concentric then controlled 3-4second eccentric? The faster you perform a lift the more motor units that are forced to fire to move the weight, hence more muscle fibres used.
05-18-2006, 04:51 PM
Not really, because F=MA, but not T=MA. Your muscle fibers can only feel as much tension as each can generate by itself, and unless you're working with a lighter weight you probably can't hit a level of explosiveness that will make a difference, and a heavier weight would likely inhibit that ability and recruit as many fibers just because of the weight anyway. I don't recall seeing anything about faster concentrics being any better than slower ones for growth. Maybe for strength as in WSB routines DE days there's something to be gained in terms of rate coding.Originally Posted by meathead1987
05-18-2006, 05:31 PM
When working toward the solution of a problem, it always helps if you know the answer. Corollary: Provided, of course, that you know there is a problem. Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get out. Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers. A solved problem creates two new problems, and the best prescription for happy living is not to solve any more problems than you have to.
The chief cause of problems is solutions.
05-18-2006, 06:13 PM
Sounds like you fed Confucious some AMP and let him play Tetris all day.Originally Posted by bpmartyr
05-19-2006, 06:34 AM
Well it's Friday and my biceps are still sore when I put my arms straight out.... Not as bad as Wednesday and yesterday but I can still feel it..... I worked them Tuesday. Do you think I worked them to hard or is this a good thing?... I only work each muscle group once a week. My pecs were sore for two days and I did back last night and don't feel anything as of yet...... Once again, thanks guys!!
05-19-2006, 07:06 AM
One thing I noticed is that you have to be careful about your workout order. For various reasons I did my chest and shoulders in succession, bad idea, the weakness showed itself as I neared the end of the shoulder workout.
Just because the weights are light and the movements are slow doesn't mean injuries are not around the corner.
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