How many people slant back when working lats?
- 05-05-2006, 02:39 AM
How many people slant back when working lats?
when working your lats, when you attempt to place the bar or make the bar just touch your upper pec, how many people slant their back slightly?
I've always done this, but was told that i shouldn't do it anymore. asking around the gym out of around 7 responses, i noticed all the really big guys do slant back, while the not so huge guys don't.
I've never given this any thought till recently. any which way, i will do this new form without slanting back and keeping my traps locked throughout for a month and see how it goes.
- 05-05-2006, 02:53 AM
I think that I lean back a little bit, but I take the bar to my chin because I seem to feel it more in my lats.
- 05-05-2006, 06:46 AM
I will slant with the larger amounts of weight, hard to do a strict rep pulling the stack. With lighter weight I like to pay attention to the feel at the bottom, sometimes it feels better if I try to bring my elbows in at the bottom. As for where I touch, well I don't, once I get 1 or 2 warm-ups in I just can't get the bar down that far.
05-05-2006, 07:10 AM
flytrapcan: that picture, just wondering is that you? cuz if it is..........wow, that is one big huge chunk of latissimus muscle there. & thanks for the feedback btw.Originally Posted by flytrapcan
05-05-2006, 10:49 AM
Thanks, yeah that's me in all my glory.Originally Posted by phasar
05-05-2006, 11:55 AM
Agree 100%. If I wanted to get the bar down to touch I'd have to turn my shoulders and elbows or lean back a lot typically I just get down to slightly below my chin. But I also use lighter weights to concentrate on the bottom part of the movement even if doing so means that some 2/3 of the full range of motion will really not hit your lats that much (at all?).Originally Posted by flytrapcan
BTW - I don't think there is any reason not to slant back except that it makes the move a bit easier in the sense that it gets other muscles involved. But that's getting into the discussion of cheats which some find very appalling and trigger comments like 'Look at the weight he's using!' 'Yeah, but he's cheating. Your not supposed to do that. He'll hurt himself that way. Maybe even die. (And his balls will shrink and his penis will fall off.)'
(Ok - I admit I made up the balls and penis part).
05-05-2006, 12:32 PM
I mix it up and follow a style similar to Fly's. I think there is value in doing as many angles as you can to hit different areas. Staying upright and pulling to the chin or top of the chest I actually feel it more in my upper lats and armpits. When I lean back...and most often this is for Dillet style/reverse grip pulldowns...I feel it much more on the outter and lower lats. Just judging by feel, I'd say mix it up.
DB rows and weighted chins actually gave me better size, width and thickness than pulldowns, but they are tough on the joints for me.
05-05-2006, 04:19 PM
I do pulldowns in many angles, as I do pull ups first which are the best IMO, in any event leaning back hits the lower lats, bringing out the Cobra,alot more than straight up, mimic while sitting down or, next time watch the big guys doing it, and see if they do not have a wide back. But overall thickness should go to the Deadlift, as I feel it from my traps to my erectors to my buttocks to my hammys. Plus I don't listen to guys in my gym-UNLESS they look better than me, or I see the mechanics of the movement clearly, and it makes sense, after all we now know behind the neck presses really stress or rotator cuff, but yet I still see clueless *******s doing it, and wondering why they are sore, and complaining they are getting old.
Just check out who is giving you advice, and their body chances are if you look better than you- they have better gear, or they work hard, or both, but if they look less than you, or look the same year round- blah-blah-blah.
05-05-2006, 05:45 PM
BWAHAHAAHAHAAAAAAOriginally Posted by rocketscientist
05-05-2006, 06:45 PM
Simple physics tells you that sitting up (90 degrees from your quads) bears all of the load.
However, any bend back reduces the load by the amount greater than 90 degrees.
05-05-2006, 10:39 PM
Nope, the force on the cable is always the same, independent of your position relative to the thing... unless you're tilting the machine when you do lat pulls...Originally Posted by jmh80
05-05-2006, 10:46 PM
On lat bar no lean. But with a triangle handle I lean back to pull it into my sternum.
05-05-2006, 11:39 PM
totally agree with rocket scientist. no matter how u cut it "simple physics" tells you the force is the same. its just when you lean back, the weight can be distributed to other muscles for some help. a.k.a. cheating.Originally Posted by rocketscientist
05-06-2006, 02:06 AM
Yeah, after I think about it, the tension in the cable is always equal to the weight (if I break it down over each of the "wheels".)
Anyway - my point was that leaning back is cheating. I just didn't say it correctly.
05-07-2006, 02:06 AM
mate: u r absolutely positively the most correct man on the face of this planet if you give me some rep points.Originally Posted by jmh80
and the most handsome too
05-07-2006, 05:54 AM
With the heavier weights I lean back slightly but keep it controlled. When using a v-bar (close grip) then I lean back farther, still keeping good form, to hit a different angle. The bar never touches any part of me except my hands. It's very similar to how Fly described it.
05-09-2006, 04:54 PM
One opinion: http://www.ast-ss.com/training/exerc...p?bp=Back&pn=2
Another from Harvard:
And you are really trying to tell me that a lat pulldown with a lean is cheating?
The only way you can get a full contraction is to lean, unless you have a vbar, or doing a full pull-up hence negating the need for wide grip lat pull downs. And lastly Charles Poliquin:
05-09-2006, 05:19 PM
well, i have no argument there. i've never ever thought about NOT leaning back ever since i ever touched a weight.Originally Posted by Apowerz6
i have not double confirmed, but i think the trainers point at the gym is that my traps are too small relative to every other muscle. & he feels that by me locking the traps and not leaning back when working the lats for the time being is most beneficial for me at this point
05-09-2006, 05:26 PM
Oh def, that I can understand, you can build traps with deads, and when you do not lean back you do hit traps, keep it going bro.
05-09-2006, 05:29 PM
thanks for the support!! i will have big traps one day, i will!Originally Posted by Apowerz6
05-09-2006, 06:10 PM
My traps are too big in proportion and because of my posture/spinal alignment they end up doing a lot during several back excercises. This is one reason I have been slanting more to tap the lower lats more.
Apower is correct, deads..especially with a modified shrug at the top are the way to go.
05-09-2006, 06:20 PM
I have a slight lean back but not too much or it takes the stress off the lats. I like to have the bar touch the top of my upper chest or very close, this way I know I got a full contraction.
05-11-2006, 01:36 PM
slight lean, bring down to chin level. i can't even touch my chest with 10lbs on the bar. none of that rocking back and forth bullsh!t though.
05-14-2006, 03:42 AM
I am asking here as I didnt want to start a new thread just for my particular problem. Well, due to my genetics, my lats are very short. Trouble is I am pretty tall (over 6') and I look long bodied and lack that V-shape given by lats that starts right "from" the waist.
Can you guys please help me with some advices on what exercises should I incorporate and focus on in my training routine to develop especially the lower area of my latissimus dorsi and medium back as well?
Hope I made myself understood...and I d appreciate very much your help.
05-14-2006, 05:10 PM
can u do dumbell bent over rows. the one where your body is parallel to the bench, and you bring the dumbell up to right about where your waist is. by medium back, do u mean rhomboid and surrounding area or do you still mean latissimus but just in the middle of.....Originally Posted by remarc
05-14-2006, 09:25 PM
TUT wide grip chins have worked my lats like no other. I keep my chest high and feet crossed and slightly out front - I suppose I'm leaning back a bit.
05-15-2006, 02:16 AM
Phasar, I meant the lower area of my lats...of course, I wouldnt mind some extra rhomboides...lol...
Anyway, just for you guys to make an idea on how my lats look like on my body..uhmmm...let me try a comparison with a pro...lol...i am talking muscle shape and nothing else of course...do you remember how Paul Dillet lats used to seem smaller compared to his other bodyparts especially from behind...Long body, short lats....well, that would be my problem too!
Big Vrunga, how many sets and reps of those chin ups? You do them every back training or change the exercise and do close grip or neutral grip or pull downs from time to time? To tell you the truth, I am kinda weak at chin ups and pull ups...I am lacking a good strength in my arms when performing those and that makes me finish the exercise before really hitting the lats....Any advice on that?
Thank you, guys, for your patience! I appeciate it! Right now I am going back searching the forum for more lats training tips
05-15-2006, 02:32 AM
Hi Remarc,Big Vrunga, how many sets and reps of those chin ups? You do them every back training or change the exercise and do close grip or neutral grip or pull downs from time to time? To tell you the truth, I am kinda weak at chin ups and pull ups...I am lacking a good strength in my arms when performing those and that makes me finish the exercise before really hitting the lats....Any advice on that?
Lately Ive been hitting them as wide as possible to bring out the upper lats - but generally Ill alternate grips and widths, etc.
If you can't do a lot of chinups, try this:
Make it chins your first exercise. Your goal is 30 total reps. Do as many sets as it takes to get to 30, with about 60 seconds rest inbetween each set. At first you might do something like 10,8,6,3,2,1 - but keep working at it until you can hit 3 good sets of 10 reps. When you can, start adding weight.
You can also try to use straps if your grip keeps failing, it certainly helps on really slow reps.
There's also those 'reverse gravity' chinup/dip stations where you stand on a weighted platform that will take x amount of pounds off your bodyweight. You might want to give that a try too.
05-15-2006, 02:41 AM
Wow, man..you were fast! Thanks again! Great forum! Tons of info! Keep up the good work!
05-15-2006, 06:07 AM
Originally Posted by BigVrunga
Do you mean pullups or chinups? If its pullups I do them this way as well Its the only exercise I do were the muscle group being worked starts to give out before my grip does. I like em...
05-16-2006, 12:04 PM
pullups = palms facing
chinups = palms away?
In that case I meant chinups - but I also love close grip pullup for bis and lower lats!
05-16-2006, 02:10 PM
I like to sit up straight, and draw my shoulders back, and pull straight down....
However, a "facepull' is essentially a pulldown done from about a 45 degree layed back position, and pulled toward the face with wide grip or rope. I do these aswell, and I tend to feel them working my lats more so then the regular pulldowns.
05-17-2006, 06:17 AM
Originally Posted by BigVrunga
05-17-2006, 12:09 PM
Hey, I frequently like to throw behind-the-necks into my shoulder days, albeit not during an all-out set. No more soreness than would be expected with any other shoulder exercise. That being said, I started them out relatively light, and have not had rotator cuff problems in the past. Probably if I did, I would approach shoulders differently. All I'm saying is that there can be a place for them depending on what you are trying to do, and whether or not you have any pre-existing issues. Squats are like that. Overall, about the best compund exercise ever invented, for most people. Some people have conditions which prevent them from squatting. With weight training, I don't think one size usually fits all.
Originally Posted by Apowerz6
05-23-2006, 02:49 PM
I do variations on the puldown.....I am a small guy so heavier weight I tend to lean back more. My lats are still sore the next day, so I must be doing something right. Although I do do them the correct way with light weight for the burn....
06-30-2006, 03:52 PM
Looks like everyone here brings the bar to the front. By bringing the bar down to the back of my neck while doing wide grip lat pulldowns have I been working something completely different or is it just not as good?
06-30-2006, 04:06 PM
No, you're still working your back, but you're also putting your rotator cuffs under a lot of strain. That's why so many guys do pulldowns to the front, to save their rotators.Originally Posted by moflika
07-01-2006, 08:58 AM
I see, thats good to know. Pulling down to the front always seemed so much harder. O well, looks like its time to lower the weight.
07-08-2006, 07:02 PM
alright, it's been two months since i started this thread, so i just thought i would give an update.
i feel that you should slant back when pulling down. when i don't slant, the traps are getting more work. it seems that they have been getting way too much work especially since i am not on a cycle of anything right now. i think that the only person that should NOT slant back is someone who already has big chunks of traps without definition who wants to make them look more defined.
my muscles are so overworked right now, it took 3 days to recover from swimming in the ocean. i'll be going back to a standard push-pull 2 day/wk. routine, and only doing close grip bench presses to replace military delt & any form of delt work.
would not recommend NOT slanting on the lat pulldown to anyone. only thing to keep in mind is don't swing back as your slanting back.
08-07-2006, 08:07 PM
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