Am I over-training or am I just weak?

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    Am I over-training or am I just weak?


    I'm trying a 3-day split.. Pushes, pulls and legs...

    Today was pushes - and I'm exhausted... I did:

    Flat barbell presses for 4 sets
    Incline dumbell presses for 4 sets
    Shoulder presses 4 sets (machine that uses free weights)
    Close-grip bench presses for 4 sets
    Lying tricep extension for 4 sets
    Dips (machine) for 4 sets

    For my pull day, I'll be doing:

    Pulldowns for 4 sets
    T-bar rows for 4 sets
    Standing alternating dumbell curls for 4 sets
    Reverse barbell curls or standing, alternating hammer curls for 4 sets
    Shoulder shrugs for 4 sets
    Some wierd, alternating dumbell upright row for 4 sets

    I'm missing a lot of movements because I'm working around injuries.. I can bearly do any bench press, no military press, no Arnold presses... No nothing...

    Anyway. What do you think of this schedule? Too much? Too little?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance
    I'm trying a 3-day split.. Pushes, pulls and legs...

    Today was pushes - and I'm exhausted... I did:

    Flat barbell presses for 4 sets
    Incline dumbell presses for 4 sets
    Shoulder presses 4 sets (machine that uses free weights)
    Close-grip bench presses for 4 sets
    Lying tricep extension for 4 sets
    Dips (machine) for 4 sets

    For my pull day, I'll be doing:

    Pulldowns for 4 sets
    T-bar rows for 4 sets
    Standing alternating dumbell curls for 4 sets
    Reverse barbell curls or standing, alternating hammer curls for 4 sets
    Shoulder shrugs for 4 sets
    Some wierd, alternating dumbell upright row for 4 sets

    I'm missing a lot of movements because I'm working around injuries.. I can bearly do any bench press, no military press, no Arnold presses... No nothing...

    Anyway. What do you think of this schedule? Too much? Too little?
    in my inexperienced opinion, maybe a week or two off would be beneficial to let your body heal up a bit, then introduce strict form/low weight exercises to get you back into it (your Arnolds / benches etc that you cant do now).

    have you been doing this routine for a while? It could be adaption set in, requiring either an increase in calories or a few tweeks in your routine.

    24 sets a session on paper looks a tad high, I have looked at a lot of peoples training routines recently and some impressive looking guys are using around 12-15 sets or on average if that. Hopefully one of those such guys will reply - lol!
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    You routine has too many sets imo. I would try cutting the overall amount of sets in half. Plus there is alot of overlap in movements. For example both flat and incline use delts. And your tris are already working during your bench sets so there is no reason to have two exercises that are tri related.
    Or your bis get worked during back but then your hitting them for 8 more sets.
    Plus hows your intesity? Are you going to failure a lot?
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    Are you going to failure? On your push days you have 20 potentially heavy sets - not counting the tric. extension. You can do that, but you might have to pace yourself, at least until you get used to this. And I also think you're frying your triceps. I'd either cut out either the close-grip BP or the Dips (or alternate them on different days). You can proabably ditch the tric. extensions too, though I guess as an isolation exercise they won't hurt too much either.

    If you are training heavy and going to failure I would consider something like this as too much volume for myself. But everyone is different. ... though - if you are asking youself this question, the answer is probably 'yes, you are doing to much'.

    Just my 2 cents.
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    This is actually a new routine for me.

    LCSULLA.. You mentioned "both flat and incline use delts". So my 4 sets of shoulder presses are too much? You also mentioned that my tris are already being worked with flat and incline presses (usually dumbells) - so I should do EITHER close-grip OR lying tricep extensions? On my "pull" day, after doing back - I should cut down and maybe just do alternating dumbell curls?

    It seems too easy to cut down on my sets but maybe I'm over-training and working too hard...
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    Rocketscientist.. I forgot about the dips.. Yeah, I will probably alternate some of the triceps stuff.. That's probably one muscle group I've always over-worked..

    I do everything pretty much to failure.. Unfortunately for me on some movements, it's not the muscle that's failing. For example, I feel like my biceps can curl more, but the bones in my forearms hurt too much to continue.. I could, say, be lifting 50lb alternating curls - and I could get 12 reps, but by the 5th or 6th rep, my forearms are giving up. I don't think it's that my forearm muscle is weak, I think I'm just falling apart and getting old too fast!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance
    ... Unfortunately for me on some movements, it's not the muscle that's failing. For example, I feel like my biceps can curl more, but the bones in my forearms hurt too much to continue.. I could, say, be lifting 50lb alternating curls - and I could get 12 reps, but by the 5th or 6th rep, my forearms are giving up. I don't think it's that my forearm muscle is weak, I think I'm just falling apart and getting old too fast!
    Sounds like you're desparate to wear yourself out.
    But really - this is not normal. I wouldn't do any exercise that has side effects like you just describe. You're hurting yourself and obviously not challenging your biceps anyway (or which other muscles you are trying to target in these exercises).
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    hey zero im doing a similar split, im only doing about 13 work sets per day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance
    This is actually a new routine for me.

    LCSULLA.. You mentioned "both flat and incline use delts". So my 4 sets of shoulder presses are too much? You also mentioned that my tris are already being worked with flat and incline presses (usually dumbells) - so I should do EITHER close-grip OR lying tricep extensions? On my "pull" day, after doing back - I should cut down and maybe just do alternating dumbell curls?

    It seems too easy to cut down on my sets but maybe I'm over-training and working too hard...
    Thats exactly right. Your tris are already working during the 8 sets for chest, so just do one exercise. And cut your sets back. Remeber what Arthur jones used to say you can work hard or you can work long but you can't do both.
    And most of those routines that call for 20 sets+ are precontest routines or ghost written, so...
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    Thanks, all.. I'll reduce the amount of sets I'm doing.. No wonder this push/pull thing was so difficult!
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    What are you trying to accomplish with this routine? I think it sucks personally... I don't know what your personal deal is.. But that routine is overtraining in the worst way... Even on juice that routine is overtraining... If you want to combine chest/tris you dont need that many sets. It's not the different types of exercise IMO it's the intensity. Like if your already doing all those presses you should take out close-grips because its working the tri's in the same way that your chest and shoulder presses are.. Instead do skullcrushers and french-presses... Make the exercises 3 sets each and do 2 for chest 2 for shoulders (throw in side lateral raises for your side delts) 2 for tris and you should be good to go.
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    Well, I'm limited to what exercises I can do. I can't do side laterals anymore.. I'll cut down on my sets and some of the overlapping and see how things work from there..
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    If -you think- you're weak, that's because you're overtraining.
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    I suppose bad habits are hard to break.. I was at the gym this afternoon, slumped over one of the sinks in the bathroom, running cold water on my hands, ready to throw up.. It didn't happen, but there I was, totally exhausted - probably over-trained..

    I started with three sets of front pulldowns. Next was t-bar rows - and that's what got me. I did two sets.. For some reason, these things always take a real lot out of me. Next time I'm going to try bent-over barbell rows instead of this.. I didn't even do seated close-grip rows as I had planned.

    Next was 3 sets of dumbell curls and 3 sets of hammer curls.

    I know this is probably wrong but since it's not a "push" movement, I don't do it on my push day. I do upright rows with dumbells, one arm at a time. It's the only way I can do them without messing with injuries.. I did a couple of sets and that was it. I was sitting down and ready for the bathroom...

    I still wanted to do shrugs...

    So, I suppose I'm still going to have to work at breaking this habit of too many sets..

    I should also add that I'm on my third day of Phera-Plex (taking FiniGenX pre-workout also) and I felt very naseaus while training at the beginning of my Ergomax LMG/FiniGenX cycle as well...
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    It is hard to break these sinful habits heathen, but for the good of your soul...wait thats another board.
    Anywho I used do the twenty sets a workout when I was much younger, But I soon saw that most of those routines weren't for me. Don't get me wrong I still gained a buttload , but I was constently banged up. In fact I am surpirised you can do these routines at 34. How much weight are you using say for t-bar? And while PS/PH/gear can cover a mulitude of sins they don't make you superman and what you experianced is not good, not good at all. I would stop the PP and take two weeks off. Then start back with the PP and a routine like Glen's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance
    I suppose bad habits are hard to break.. I was at the gym this afternoon, slumped over one of the sinks in the bathroom, running cold water on my hands, ready to throw up.. It didn't happen, but there I was, totally exhausted - probably over-trained..
    ... or you can declare yourself a high-volume HIT-ter and call this a great workout.

    Sorry - this was just too tempting...

    Anyway - everything you mention, including your 'injuries' seem to indicate that you are waaaay overtrained. I know I brought this up before, but somehow I believe your aches are from overworking your joints, tendons etc.. And after you do this for a while you develop chronic pain. I used to be really good at this. But then in a rare moment of insight I discovered that the pain was in fact my body trying to tell me 'don't do this, you idiot.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCSULLA
    It is hard to break these sinful habits heathen, but for the good of your soul...wait thats another board.
    Anywho I used do the twenty sets a workout when I was much younger, But I soon saw that most of those routines weren't for me. Don't get me wrong I still gained a buttload , but I was constently banged up. In fact I am surpirised you can do these routines at 34. How much weight are you using say for t-bar? And while PS/PH/gear can cover a mulitude of sins they don't make you superman and what you experianced is not good, not good at all. I would stop the PP and take two weeks off. Then start back with the PP and a routine like Glen's.
    For the t-bar, I started off with 70lbs. Then I moved onto 115lbs and next up (I never made it) was 160.. Not a whole lot - but a good workout for me.. T-bar has always been a bit of a weak exercize for me..

    Well, I use to do Muay Thai Kickboxing before I broke my foot a couple of years ago. So my endurance is good for a 240 pounder.. I had a great "push" workout today but I almost feel guilty for not doing enough sets. That's going to be my old way of thinking, though...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketscientist
    ... or you can declare yourself a high-volume HIT-ter and call this a great workout.

    Sorry - this was just too tempting...

    Anyway - everything you mention, including your 'injuries' seem to indicate that you are waaaay overtrained. I know I brought this up before, but somehow I believe your aches are from overworking your joints, tendons etc.. And after you do this for a while you develop chronic pain. I used to be really good at this. But then in a rare moment of insight I discovered that the pain was in fact my body trying to tell me 'don't do this, you idiot.'
    I'm sure you're right.. I've been over-training myself for years, I suppose.. When I was a kid, it didn't matter. Now that I'm 34, it does... Maybe this will be a whole new beginning for me.. I'm very greatful for sites like this...
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCSULLA
    I would stop the PP and take two weeks off. Then start back with the PP and a routine like Glen's.
    Bump to that. I just started Glen's routine and I am amazed at how sore I am from so few sets. Great workout.
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
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