"rib cage" muscle, how to isolate?

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    "rib cage" muscle, how to isolate?


    You know where I'm talking about? When you lift your arms, some people have real defined diagonal strips of muscle on top of their ribs, on either side of the pecs, in front of the lats, right above the obliques. These look awesome, and really fill out the physique. I've already concluded this was heavily genetics based...u either get them real pronounced or you don't. When someone asked about developing traps recently, it reknewed me interest. For me, I hardly ever shrug, and when I do, only 1 excercise. But as long as I can remember, I've always had traps naturally. I know people who have great everything, but no pecs...or no biceps...for me, it's the rib cage muscle (and lower pecs and lower lats).

    Strange isn't it? My upper chest is above average, volume and definition. Lower chest you see NO definition. I even thought I had childhood gyno when I first read about AAS, but I think that's unlikely since I've always been skinny. As for my lats, they're very wide and thick up top, but the V quickly tapers into nothing...it doesn't go down very far at all... I want those wings that go all the way down most of my back...but again I think that's genetic. Close grip pull downs are all that I can think of.

    OKAY. One thing at a time. Does ANYONE know how to really hit the rib cage muscles? (Those who have them naturally need not reply! )

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    I believe they're called the serratus- definitely a great looking muscle, and often overlooked even by the pros. I've been working on mine lately, and besides the close-grip pulldown I find that dumbbell pullovers are most effective.
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    The serratus anterior is a broad, curved muscle located on the side of the chest. It functions to pull the scapula (shoulder blade) down and to the front, and is used to thrust the shoulder forward as when pushing something.

    per NASM It can be resisted with posteriorly directed resistance (directed through the scapulae) and during an overhead press, as resistance attempts to force the scapula into a downward rotation.

    Scapula abduction, elevation, and rotation

    NASM also lists pullovers as a myth for developing the serratus

    It would seem that chest presses or push ups, shrugs, and military press would be the movements needed.

    LOCO
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    Originally posted by locoangmo
    The serratus anterior is a broad, curved muscle located on the side of the chest. It functions to pull the scapula (shoulder blade) down and to the front, and is used to thrust the shoulder forward as when pushing something.

    per NASM It can be resisted with posteriorly directed resistance (directed through the scapulae) and during an overhead press, as resistance attempts to force the scapula into a downward rotation.

    Scapula abduction, elevation, and rotation

    NASM also lists pullovers as a myth for developing the serratus

    It would seem that chest presses or push ups, shrugs, and military press would be the movements needed.

    LOCO
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    uneven pushups work for some people. place one hand on a block 4-8 inches above the other. obviously don't do this if you don't have the flexibility in your shoulders. the exercises listed above are also good, but only if you can transfer some of the load to your serratus anterior. to do this, you really have to concentrate on that muscle and your form in any of the exercises. to do this i would drop the weight you use and go slower say maybe 3 seconds both ways and a 2 second pause at both ends. by going slow and lighter, you are better able to focus on the contration of the targeted muscle and not solely on getting the weight up. really focus on keeping your body in a proper position and don't let it move. ie: if you are getting an extreme range of motion only because you arch your back in a pullover, you use your abs to help pull up the weight. while this MAY be good otherwise, here we are trying to isolate only one muscle and learn to recruit it. once you have a better mind muscle connection, you can start to lift heavier with a faster concentric phase and less pausing between concentric and eccentric. same goes for the pushup and close grip pulldown. give it a shot and do it first in your workout when you are still fresh. if your are extremely sore you know it works, if not, you are quite obviously not using the targeted muscle. this is one of those times when focusing on the movement instead of weight lifted will really pay off. don't worry, soon you will be lifting more than all the ego lifters anyway and it should help with the main upper body lifts too!

    cheers, pete
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    im not sure what this exercise is called, or if it would hit the serratus........and i also have not done it or seen anyone do it in years.

    the motion is like this....you take a flat bench, and a dumbell. from the side of the bench you keep feet on the floor, and rest your upper back area on the bench (forming a T almost).....hold the dumbell with both hands...and just raise it back over the head, almost to where your arms are straight up over your head (like you have your hands up to block a ball). then lower it to your starting point..i know its good to stretch your rib cage, but seems like it would work. If someone already said it, my bad...like i said i dont know what this is called.

    h19
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    Originally posted by hamper19
    im not sure what this exercise is called, or if it would hit the serratus........and i also have not done it or seen anyone do it in years.

    h19
    Yeah, this is the one everyone's been talking about - pullovers. I do them religiously...but still, my serratus is lacking...hmm...maybe the last thing to try is site inject winny and synthol into each individual strips.... jk
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    ok pullovers...they should do it

    h19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aheadlan View Post
    I believe they're called the serratus - besides the close-grip pulldown I find that dumbbell pullovers are most effective.
    Why do you think they are effective? I don't think these moves hit this muscle. It's not as if most people have high mind-muscle connection with deep muscles like this, it would be easy to get confused with things like pec minor or teres major.

    Quote Originally Posted by locoangmo View Post
    NASM also lists pullovers as a myth for developing the serratus
    Oh god please find out where they say this, I really need to link this (along with ExRx.net's statement at /Questions/MuscularAnalysis.html ) whenever I heard this 'pullover/down for serratus' idea parroted.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamper19 View Post
    ok pullovers...they should do it h19
    NO
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    Decrease the fat covering them.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Decrease the fat covering them.

    Br

    there you go..once again fatloss wins!
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    Almost exactly 8 years later he gets his answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trumac View Post
    Almost exactly 8 years later he gets his answer.

    thats funny actually
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    High pull UPS, basic pull up except you pull your lower chest to the bar, also I find that flex your lats outward while doing any pulling exercise will really have them sore
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    pullups, chinups and proper dieting. Maybe Essential Fatty Acids. or try this. BSN (Syntha-6) with the pullovers and dieting.
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    You have to be lean, yeah. I get good serratus development from doing DB pullovers perpendicular to the bench with my ass low. Concentrate on stretching the muscles at the side of the torso. That and pullups.

    Frank Zane had amazing serratus and he said he got them from primarily from doing DB pullovers.

    Note: NOT pullovers where your whole back is on a bench. Be perpindicular to the bench with only your upper back making contact. I don't see the point of doing them the other way.
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    try laying on an incline bench - have a db in each hand and bring them in the same fashion as you would a front db raise
    or
    straight arm pulldowns
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    diet. i just started to get mine and a pretty decent size because im doing a mild cut. id say, depending on your goals and what state your body is at right now, recomp for the summer, winter clean bulk, get as big as u can with minimal fat, then do a solid cut in the spring or end of winter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bboyflash View Post
    High pull UPS, basic pull up except you pull your lower chest to the bar, also I find that flex your lats outward while doing any pulling exercise will really have them sore
    Great lat exercise. The serrati do not perform these functions. Tension in them would inhibit effectively pulling up. Pull ups involve retraction and downward rotation, this is the opposite of what the SA does. The SA is involved with things like overhead pressing, a reverse action of the pull up.

    Quote Originally Posted by GetJakked View Post
    pullups, chinups and proper dieting. Maybe Essential Fatty Acids. or try this. BSN (Syntha-6) with the pullovers and dieting.
    EFAs are great for general health and all that, but I don't see what it has to do with isolating a muscle. Please seek some evidence that the serrati are involved with these movements, haven't found any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Type O Hero View Post
    You have to be lean, yeah. I get good serratus development from doing DB pullovers perpendicular to the bench with my ass low. Concentrate on stretching the muscles at the side of the torso. That and pullups.
    How do you know that the development of your serrati are due to doing these exercises? After all, you probably have other exercises in your routine. Do you do push ups or any overhead pressing? Your serrati development could be from this, as opposed to your pull-overs and pull ups, which are excellent movements but I don't think they hit this muscle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Type O Hero View Post
    Frank Zane had amazing serratus and he said he got them from primarily from doing DB pullovers.
    Frank Zane probably did forward and upward pressing movements too though, so the development could have come from other movements in his routine, and he could simply have made a mistake about what to attribute their size to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Type O Hero View Post
    Note: NOT pullovers where your whole back is on a bench. Be perpindicular to the bench with only your upper back making contact. I don't see the point of doing them the other way.
    The upper back making contact with the bench is the whole problem: that supports the scapulae and holds them on to the rib cage. That's the last vestigue of an argument of what the serrati could be doing in a pullover, since there isn't any significant upward rotation or protraction resistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by oli View Post
    try laying on an incline bench - have a db in each hand and bring them in the same fashion as you would a front db raise
    YES. This involves upward rotation! Also, the scapulae are levered so that they want to wing off, so muscles like the lower traps engage to hold them on. I imagine muscles like the serrati/rhomboids/pec minor could also play a role in preventing that winging.

    Quote Originally Posted by oli View Post
    straight arm pulldowns
    Maybe, yeah, so on the fence about this one. The scapulae are free to wing so if there was a winging force (picturing forces to scapulae in this movement strains my puny brain's limited spatial skills) the SA could help stop it.
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    I have gotten good serratus development from doing overhead presses, squats, and flys. I also think doing pullups helps.
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    I can't post a link here because I don't have enough posts - so look at coachrouse. com to see the exercise I mention below.

    Here is an activation exercise that may be used prior to training to heighten activity and improve scapular stabilization.
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    You're talking about upward rotation of the scapula. To raise your arm over your head, the glenohumeral (scapula and upper arm joint) rotate 120 degrees. The scapula them selves have to rotate 60 degrees to complete the motion. 3 muscles carry out this function:



    The problem in most recreationally trained lifters/athletes, however, is that the lower trapezuis are weak in comparison to the serratus and upper trapezius. So by training the serratus you just exascerbate this problem.

    Revealing the muscles really just comes down to body fat percentage.

    Br
  

  
 

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