Is this too much?

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    Is this too much?


    Hey guys,

    Just wanted to get some quick feedback on my current workout schedule. I am doing 3-on / 1-off at the moment with the following split: Chest/Shoulders - Legs/Abs - Back/Biceps. I typically do 12-16 sets per bodypart except legs where I always do 16 sets. Each set is 8-12 reps.

    My exercises look something like this (sometimes I change it up but this is usually what I do):

    Chest - Flat BBell Bench/Incline DBell Bench/Weighted Dips

    Shoulders - Seated DBell Press/Rear Lateral Raises/Upright Rows/Shrugs

    Legs - Squats/SLDL/Quad Extension/Ham Curls/Calf Raises

    Back - Wide Pull-Ups/BBell Rows/DBell Rows

    Biceps - Standing BBell Curls/Incline DBell Curls/Concentration Curls

    Everything has been working out fine and I have been seeing some real good weight progression but just lately, man have I been tired a lot. I split the workouts between morning and evening so I would do something like chest in the morning and shoulders in the evening. Does this look like I could be overtraining. I try to hit each muscle group on the 4th day and thats why I have all the push exercises and the pull exercises seperated, so I don't end up overtraining one group. What do you think? Thanks for the help!

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    IMO it definitely is overtraining for the average person

    personally i would cut that back to 4-8 sets per body part total for a while .. see how you do with that .. just keep the weights HEAVY and the workouts INTENSE
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenihan
    IMO it definitely is overtraining for the average person

    personally i would cut that back to 4-8 sets per body part total for a while .. see how you do with that .. just keep the weights HEAVY and the workouts INTENSE
    Thanks Glenihan!

    Would you keep the same number of exercises and just reduce the volume per workout? Also, keep the 3/1 split as well?

    I think you might be right because I have just been drained lately. It wasn't like this a month ago, maybe it is catching up with me. Thanks again!
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenihan
    IMO it definitely is overtraining for the average person

    personally i would cut that back to 4-8 sets per body part total for a while .. see how you do with that .. just keep the weights HEAVY and the workouts INTENSE
    Really? Wow, IMO anything less than 8 sets is undertraining and anything over 12 is over for the avg. person IMO. This is just what works for me. If it thats what you do glen than thats awesome b/c it obviously worked. But for me especially while bulking 4-6 sets for legs, back, chest wouldn't cut it. Not saying to go heavy as possible for every set though either. Again JMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by max-rot98
    Really? Wow, IMO anything less than 8 sets is undertraining and anything over 12 is over for the avg. person IMO. This is just what works for me. If it thats what you do glen than thats awesome b/c it obviously worked. But for me especially while bulking 4-6 sets for legs, back, chest wouldn't cut it. Not saying to go heavy as possible for every set though either. Again JMO.
    I just want to add that I don't take each set to failure, usually set 3 is complete failure and set 4 I sometimes drop the weight down and bang out 15 reps for a real nice pump. Just wanted to let you guys know. Thanks for all of the information!
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    Sounds good. I don't go to failure every single set either. If you do go to failure every single set than yeah glenihan routine would be great doing 4-8 sets.

    Sounds like your doing fine. If you do alot, feel tired, and aren't gaining like you used to or just aren't gaining at all than try glen's idea. He does know quite a bit, I just disagree when it comes to my training I like to get a good pump before burning out the muscle.
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    What about tris...I know that they're indirectly hit but what about atleast a little direct work???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grmlock
    What about tris...I know that they're indirectly hit but what about atleast a little direct work???
    Grmlock,

    Yea, I usually throw them in on Chest day but I don't have to focus on them much for some reason. The weighted dips and the pressing movements seem to keep them involved and I haven't noticed them lagging behind at all. I usually just do a few sets of rope press downs or close grip bench. Thanks for the reply!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdahlum
    Grmlock,

    Yea, I usually throw them in on Chest day but I don't have to focus on them much for some reason. The weighted dips and the pressing movements seem to keep them involved and I haven't noticed them lagging behind at all. I usually just do a few sets of rope press downs or close grip bench. Thanks for the reply!
    I also noticed that you don't do deads or partial deads for back...I think everyone should do some form of deads for back for, if nothing else, core stability.
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    i've done a lot things and honestly i've had success with most of them .. i've trained each body part once a week with 6-8 sets total, i've trained with bobo which is slightly more volume and higher reps (though not high volume), and i'm currently using DC training

    all have worked very well and i think variation is important

    my suggestion would be to do 3 exercises per body part and do 3 sets, 3 sets, 2 sets of 8-12 reps with HEAVY weight and the weight remaining constant for each set of the exercise .. try to move up the weight each week even if its only by 2.5lbs

    make sure you are doing deads and squats as well .. switch up the exercises each workout .. do this type of work out for 8 weeks see how it works for you .. with proper nutrition i predict good results
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    Deads and squats for sure man. BUT those are demanding exercises, and I can tell you almost for sure that this constant tiredness you've been feeling is overtraining.

    As you grow, it gets more and more demanding on your body to regenerate the, say, 5% of muscle tissue broken down every week. It gets to a point where your body has to put basically ALL its resources to that, and you hit a wall.

    Now there are many many ways to circumvent this. The first thing you need to do is leave your current overtrained state. I advise taking 2 weeks off all training NOW. Then come back and add squats and deadlifts, with lowered volume as glenihan says. Maybe deads every other back day because they really are very demanding recuperation-wise.

    Secondly, watch your DIET. The bigger/stronger you get, the less sloppiness in your diet is allowed. You can progress while eating McDonald's when you're 130lbs. You simply cannot eat that garbage after you've put on 70lbs of muscle on the same frame and you are 200, and expect gains or any kind of performance. Your body needs FOOD and that means QUALITY.

    Some questions :
    - How long since you've taken a break off ALL training?
    - How long have you been training seriously in total?
    - What is your antioxydant intake?
    - What supplements do you use?
    - What is your diet like in terms of calories/lb, fat intake and protein/lb?

    With the answers to those, maybe we can go further down the path of fixing you up good. BUT the 2 weeks off thing is very serious. You'll come back with all the dedication you've ever had and MORE. That matters much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ss01
    Deads and squats for sure man. BUT those are demanding exercises, and I can tell you almost for sure that this constant tiredness you've been feeling is overtraining.

    As you grow, it gets more and more demanding on your body to regenerate the, say, 5% of muscle tissue broken down every week. It gets to a point where your body has to put basically ALL its resources to that, and you hit a wall.

    Now there are many many ways to circumvent this. The first thing you need to do is leave your current overtrained state. I advise taking 2 weeks off all training NOW. Then come back and add squats and deadlifts, with lowered volume as glenihan says. Maybe deads every other back day because they really are very demanding recuperation-wise.

    Secondly, watch your DIET. The bigger/stronger you get, the less sloppiness in your diet is allowed. You can progress while eating McDonald's when you're 130lbs. You simply cannot eat that garbage after you've put on 70lbs of muscle on the same frame and you are 200, and expect gains or any kind of performance. Your body needs FOOD and that means QUALITY.

    Some questions :
    - How long since you've taken a break off ALL training?
    - How long have you been training seriously in total?
    - What is your antioxydant intake?
    - What supplements do you use?
    - What is your diet like in terms of calories/lb, fat intake and protein/lb?

    With the answers to those, maybe we can go further down the path of fixing you up good. BUT the 2 weeks off thing is very serious. You'll come back with all the dedication you've ever had and MORE. That matters much.
    Sorry for the delay in replying guys! My wife just deliverd our third child on Monday morning at 5am so I am REALLY tired now!

    Also, I just wanted to make sure everyone noticed in my original post, I do squats in every leg workout. I believe they are critical to building the body I am looking for. Just wanted to make sure everyone knew I wasn't bailing out on the squats. I WILL add deads to the workout from now on.

    As soon as I have more time I will post nutritional information. I really think I do a good jo of eating clean and around 4000 calories on training days. I will get more specific later.

    I have been training seriously only for about 6 months. About 8-9 months ago I decided I needed to lose around 20 lbs and I did it in about 3 months but I turned out to be a bit too thin. I was running a lot. I then switched gears to lifting about 6 months ago and I have put on a very lean 10lbs since then. I am currently sitting at 12% body fat. Not great but not too bad either.

    Also, on a hunch a added some additional iron to my diet and things have improved a lot. I don't fel as tired as usual. I will report back though with more information. Thanks for all of the advice.

    Jamie
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    Quote Originally Posted by max-rot98
    Sounds good. I don't go to failure every single set either. If you do go to failure every single set than yeah glenihan routine would be great doing 4-8 sets.

    Sounds like your doing fine. If you do alot, feel tired, and aren't gaining like you used to or just aren't gaining at all than try glen's idea. He does know quite a bit, I just disagree when it comes to my training I like to get a good pump before burning out the muscle.
    In my oppinion, there is no need to take more than 2-3 total sets to failure per day, and hardly ever going past failure with drop sets. Think this is under training, Ronnie Coleman says he doesnt go past failure much. Remember, you dont grow in the gym, you grow in your sleep/ when you eat. Just make sure you go to FAILURE, not close to failure. Like max said, try different stuff out, and see what works for you. Take our word second. IMO, that is the best part of bodybuilding, trying new things and reaping the benefits.


    PS- I know I contridicted myself a little bit there, but ronnie didnt become mr. O by "undertraining."
  

  
 

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