Cardio beyond confused

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    Cardio beyond confused


    I've always known that doing low-intensity cardio on an empty stomach is not that big of a deal when it comes to muscle loss, but that doing a HIIT routine on an empty stomach is a big NONO.

    Its been recommended over and over that some form of carb/protein preworkout is optimal, but I was recently told that for those with a high BF% (>16%) it isn't necessarlily optimal to have food precardio. The reasoning behind this was that in a fasted morning state, adipose tissue is the main source of energy (thats why low-intensity on empty stomach is no big deal) but doing a high-intensity type routine would turn to glycogen stores as the main energy source, and not the target adipose tissue.

    Basically, I was told that with a high BF%, and doing high intensity in the morning, my body will burn the excess fat (glycogen wasn't mentioned at all...i dunno why) so having food precardio is just a waste of the time spent doing the cardio since you are burning the recently ingested nutrients.

    Should I just stick to my normal low-intensity morning cardio on empty stomach or should I do HIIT on empty stomach?

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    HIIT on an empty-stomach is a terrible idea.

    Keep doing the low-intensity cardio first thing in the morning. Just keep the HR low.
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    Definitely no HIIT without a couple meals in.
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    so when would be an optimal time to do HIIT considering I usually walk on an incline immediately after weights for about 20minutes along with the morning low-intensity cardio.
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    I'm no cardio expert but as far as I can gather - HIIT should be treated like a weights session with proper preworkout and post workout nutrition. HIIT cardio on an empty stomach will destroy muscle - definitely a good way to lose weight if your going for the POW look.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigEp05
    so when would be an optimal time to do HIIT considering I usually walk on an incline immediately after weights for about 20minutes along with the morning low-intensity cardio.
    If you wanted to do HIIT cardio then do it on your non weight training days. You can also just increase the length of your low-intensity cardio sessions and ditch the HIIT, which is what I would do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nodgodbod
    I'm no cardio expert but as far as I can gather - HIIT should be treated like a weights session with proper preworkout and post workout nutrition. HIIT cardio on an empty stomach will destroy muscle - definitely a good way to lose weight if your going for the POW look.
    Agreed!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigEp05
    I've always known that doing low-intensity cardio on an empty stomach is not that big of a deal when it comes to muscle loss, but that doing a HIIT routine on an empty stomach is a big NONO.

    Its been recommended over and over that some form of carb/protein preworkout is optimal, but I was recently told that for those with a high BF% (>16%) it isn't necessarlily optimal to have food precardio. The reasoning behind this was that in a fasted morning state, adipose tissue is the main source of energy (thats why low-intensity on empty stomach is no big deal) but doing a high-intensity type routine would turn to glycogen stores as the main energy source, and not the target adipose tissue.

    Basically, I was told that with a high BF%, and doing high intensity in the morning, my body will burn the excess fat (glycogen wasn't mentioned at all...i dunno why) so having food precardio is just a waste of the time spent doing the cardio since you are burning the recently ingested nutrients.

    Should I just stick to my normal low-intensity morning cardio on empty stomach or should I do HIIT on empty stomach?
    HIIT training requires a more immediate source of energy for fuel, since it is indeed high intesity. The body naturaly runs more efficient off of carbohydrates, and as such is better at utilizing it as energy at a much quicker rate then fat. That's why Pre and post workout nutrition is essential for HIIT, it requires the presence of a lot more blood glucose and glycogen stores then normal low intensity cardio. If the sugar isn't present (your fasted) then the body turns to not only fat for fuel sources, but Amino Acids and protein as well i.e. muscles, in order to properly attain the much need demand for said energy use. It's catabolic heaven. Low intensity cardio doesn't require as quick a need for energy thus the body has adequate time to utilize more energy rich sources (fat=fatty acids), and is the preferred method for attaining the body's "go juice". Being at a higher BF % will enable you to burn more fat with either method, but you'll also be sacrificing alot of muscle mass with HIIT fasting.
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    If I must consume an extra two meals (pre/post cardio) just to minimize any muscle loss before I do HIIT, what is the point of even doing the cardio (which will burn anywhere from 500-800 calories) if I am adding an extra 500calories just in the two extra meals...I just do not see the logic.

    I guess good old walking will have to do for now...
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    you don't add any extra meals, you should incorporate those two into your 6 meals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsl
    you don't add any extra meals, you should incorporate those two into your 6 meals.
    Would a preworkout shake about 30minutes before weights be enough for weights+HIIT?
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    I always eat my meal about an hour before, otherwise it seems like the pre and post meals would come way too close together. Just eat some oats and milk w/whey for both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigEp05
    Would a preworkout shake about 30minutes before weights be enough for weights+HIIT?
    30min-1hour is a good time for preworkout, what's your shake/meal consisti of?(Macronutrient ratio)
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    If I have a shake, usually its usually a whey/milk shake with 4 strawberrys. About 35protein, 25carbs (15 from sugars and like 4grams fiber), 0 fats.

    Im thinking maybe I should have my flax/fish oil to slow it all down a bit?
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    Oh, when I dont have a shake its because I am having a meal: usually grilled chicken on 2slices whole wheat and fat free cheese: 45protein, 25carbs, 2fats(whatever is in the bread)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigEp05
    Im thinking maybe I should have my flax/fish oil to slow it all down a bit?
    it won't slow it down if the fat is already a liquid, besides you shouldn't be eating a lot of fat before or after your workout.

    the only thing you need for you shake is a slow digesting carb (oats) and a fast digesting protein (whey/eaa's)
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    sounds good, info appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigEp05
    If I have a shake, usually its usually a whey/milk shake with 4 strawberrys. About 35protein, 25carbs (15 from sugars and like 4grams fiber), 0 fats.

    Im thinking maybe I should have my flax/fish oil to slow it all down a bit?
    It looks ideal to me Sig. On a personal front I usually mix my whey with just water(if you can handle it) before working out. Milk acts as a slow digestive source of protein due to coagulation and clobbering of milk in the presence of stomach acid(think cottage cheese). But for you personaly it probably isn't such a big deal, I just figured I'd throw that in for a FYI.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns
    Milk acts as a slow digestive source of protein due to coagulation and clobbering of milk in the presence of stomach acid(think cottage cheese).
    thnx for that info, i knew it was slow diegesting casein, didnt know why...very interesting.

    anyway, i figured it would be a good idea to get 2 sources of protein (from the milk and whey).
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    I'd definitely include a slow absorbing carb source in the preworkout meal - sugars/fructose is fine for a quick energy boost - but you might have a blood sugar level crash during the workout that will hinder your performance in the cardio session.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nodgodbod
    I'd definitely include a slow absorbing carb source in the preworkout meal - sugars/fructose is fine for a quick energy boost - but you might have a blood sugar level crash during the workout that will hinder your performance in the cardio session.
    i was thinking the same, but ive never noticed any type of crash...even though i've been consuming simple sugars/fructose preworkout for a couple months...when i start bulking ill probably add some oats...for now, i dont see any reason for the extra calories
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    as far as i know the body mainly uses fructose to refill liver glycogen, so you should not be using it to replenish muscle glycogen.
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    I personally hate High Intensity ****. I just do 1 hour of 60-70% of mhr. I really enjoy my muscle and High Intensity is a great way to lose it IMO.
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    Heh, damned tread mill bunnies.

    Get out and take a hike, play a sport, climb a rock or surf some waves...
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    I do eliptical machine for a hour four times a week. I would play sports of some sort but I am trying to rehad a bad ankle and knee. I hate treeadmills also, those things are for skinny bastards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGPHILL1984
    I do eliptical machine for a hour four times a week. I would play sports of some sort but I am trying to rehad a bad ankle and knee. I hate treeadmills also, those things are for skinny bastards.
    Actually my treadmill rant applies to elliptical machines, stationary bikes and stair climbers too I'm anti-cardio machine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    Actually my treadmill rant applies to elliptical machines, stationary bikes and stair climbers too I'm anti-cardio machine.
    With that manly 39" waist I somehow believe you
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminis
    With that manly 39" waist I somehow believe you
    LOL burn!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminis
    With that manly 39" waist I somehow believe you



    I only do HIIT on my "off" days. I use the free weight bar and perform "the bear or Iron Cardio" depending on which term you want to use or "Dead lift cardio". I treat it as a lifting day (eat pre and post). I'll do 6-8 sets and follow up with 20min of low intensity cardio.

    I've tried doing HIIT (even to insanity to see how far I could go with condition) in the past. You certainly can chew up muscle mass if you are not careful. It is like a freight train effect where, once your metabolism start to kick, it is like lighting magnesium on fire. You can't stop it. This is a good way to get some fatty endos headed in the right direction....but must be used very conservatively and cautiously by anyone approaching single digit BF.
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    Exclamation


    "lighting magnesium on fire"

    oh my
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminis
    With that manly 39" waist I somehow believe you
    *shrug* if people can't see the common sense of getting their non-resistance exercise from kayaking or a game of ultimate frisbee or going to a club and dancing or whatever instead of wasting 3-6 hours of of their life every week on the treadmill, I can't do anything about that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    *shrug* if people can't see the common sense of getting their non-resistance exercise from kayaking or a game of ultimate frisbee or going to a club and dancing or whatever instead of wasting 3-6 hours of of their life every week on the treadmill, I can't do anything about that.

    A lot of it is convenience bro. People use treadmills, bikes, and ellipticals b/c they're available in the gym right after their resistance training. Suggesting that people go kayacking or organize a game of ultimate frisbee is nuts. Everybody has different goals and 'finding a heavy rock and lifting it over your head 100 times' doesn't work for everybody.

    Crazy or not, some people actually enjoy cardio. Not everybody likes just going to the gym to lift heavy weights all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigEp05
    i was thinking the same, but ive never noticed any type of crash...even though i've been consuming simple sugars/fructose preworkout for a couple months...when i start bulking ill probably add some oats...for now, i dont see any reason for the extra calories
    I have felt "the crash" for sure a few times-and that was just half an hour into weights sessions -suddenly lost energy and feeling extremely tired and weak- which I wouldn't consider to be overly glycogen consuming. I do know that if i was doing all out proper HIIT cardio (as it should be done) - a blood suger crash would arrive sooner and would definitely stop me in my tracks.
    Why not use oats instead of the simple sugar source - no extra calories - and low gi carbs are far less likely to result in fat gain than easily absorbed sugar foods - seeing as your aim is to lose bodyfat?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieTrying
    A lot of it is convenience bro. People use treadmills, bikes, and ellipticals b/c they're available in the gym right after their resistance training. Suggesting that people go kayacking or organize a game of ultimate frisbee is nuts. Everybody has different goals and 'finding a heavy rock and lifting it over your head 100 times' doesn't work for everybody.

    Crazy or not, some people actually enjoy cardio. Not everybody likes just going to the gym to lift heavy weights all the time.
    If you ENJOY getting on a cardio machine, go for it. I may think you're weird, but there's room for weird people

    Honestly though, I hear so many people on boards and IRL talk about how they don't have time to do anything in their life, and feel like their trapped in a routine with no excitement, then they talk about doing the elliptical an hour a day four or five days a week... HELLO?

    As for the heavy rock thing, that sounds like the short of thing I'd do Although I'd probably be throwing the heavy rock around to see how far I could hurl it.
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    I like the cardio myself because I can watch TV without being a couch potato. I usually work at night so I try to catch up on current events in sports and whatnot while on the elliptical machine. Also it gives you an excuse to watch the girls asses in front of you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nodgodbod
    .
    Why not use oats instead of the simple sugar source - no extra calories - and low gi carbs are far less likely to result in fat gain than easily absorbed sugar foods - seeing as your aim is to lose bodyfat?
    good point...although i highly doubt any fat gain from simple sugars preworkout...i will make the change since it just makes sense
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