Tired of doing cardio?
- 05-08-2005, 03:20 PM
Tired of doing cardio?
Being a powerlifter, I'm sure everyone can guess what my opinion on cardio is However, general physical preparedness (GPP for short) is very important, and it is a big factor in how your body reacts to volume and intensity of training. Louie Simmons has stated that raising an athlete's GPP pretty much universally results in raising overall athletic performance regardless of the sport, however westsiders are not fans of things like running, cycling, or other traditional "cardio" workouts, because they don't carry over benefits to strength training very well.
Instead, the westside method encourages extra workouts. These extra workouts are done with a very high volume and very light load, with basically no rest between sets. Supersetting of exercises for alternating bodyparts is common, and weak points are focused on in exercise selection. The entire workout should last between 15-30 minutes.
As an example, I recently started doing one extra workout a week for conditioning purposes, which is basically comprised of a bar weighing 135lbs, which I proceed to squat, deadlift and power clean at a brisk pace until I am very short of breath, at which point I do some swiss ball curls for ~30 reps then go back to doing the squats, deadlifts and power cleans - this is repeated for 25-30 minutes. The difference this has made in my conditioning already is impressive, and I suggest to anyone who hates doing cardio to give WSB style extra workouts a try.
- 05-08-2005, 03:55 PM
so wait, sets to 30reps? repeated over-and-over for 25-30minutes?
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- 05-08-2005, 04:03 PM
Basically. Thing to remember here is that the weight is light enough that you're feeling less of a localized lactic acid buildup and more of a systemic oxygen debt. Towards the end you will start to feel lactic acid buildup in the most worked muscles, that is a good sign that you are just about done.
05-08-2005, 04:12 PM
i like it - will give it a try
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05-08-2005, 06:03 PM
how does that compare to cardio for fat loss?
05-08-2005, 06:21 PM
that is freaking genius!!!.....because I absilutely hate cardio, and I can't stand days off in the gym. So I can get the necessarry time off from heavy weights, get the heart rate up, and still hit the gym!!!
ex man, you made my day!
...now why the phuq didn't I think of that???
05-08-2005, 06:39 PM
Cardio with weights, I use to do this as well when powerlifting. It really helped.
We called it 3 in 1's.
Powerclean, deadlift, front squat.
Then proceed to do abs, the whole workout was titled "TTA" (Thrash That Ass).
05-08-2005, 10:29 PM
Well, in the middle and later portions of a "cut" I would advise against it, as the systemic shock would probably cause your body to go into a downward spiral which would cause overtraining and a starvation response - stick with the low intensity cardio there. In the early stages of a cut, or if you are trying to improve athletic performance, or you just want to prevent undue fat gain on a bulk, it will work better than low intensity cardio, I'm quite certain.Originally Posted by tiggermoon
It's similar to HIIT in some respects, it's not truly interval training and the work you do will carry over more to your weight lifting in general than most HIIT style workouts would. I like it a lot though... Just don't overdo it, start out slowly or you WILL overtrain. Start at one extra workout of 15 minutes a week, and slowly build up from there. All the top westside guys do between 7-14 extra workouts a week of 15-30 minute duration, but they are elite athletes and you can't just start off like that.
05-09-2005, 09:02 AM
i cant stand cardio and this looks like something i'd like to do. i lift mon, tues, fri, and my off days i normally do cardio are tues, thurs, and try to do sat. so would it look something like this?
squat - 30 reps
deadlift - 30 reps
power clean - 30 reps
swiss ball curls - 30 reps
do those over and over again with no break in between sets? on tues, thurs, and saturday? or just tues, thurs?
05-09-2005, 11:01 AM
Originally Posted by guyfromkop
exnihilo: "Start at one extra workout of 15 minutes a week"
05-09-2005, 12:06 PM
05-09-2005, 12:38 PM
I do cardio 7 days a week at around 40 minutes at 140 bpm on the Elliptical or stair master.
05-09-2005, 01:20 PM
As I said, start out at ONE extra workout, and work up from there. When you first start doing extra workouts, they will cause a similar amount of physiological stress to a normal workout, however as your body adapts and your level of GPP increases you will be able to do more extra workouts without negative effects on your regular training. Over time, increased GPP will also allow you to handle higher volume in your regular workouts as well...Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
If you just jump into this with a bunch of extra workouts, you WILL become overtrained fairly quickly. Just like you have to build up to a 300lb bench over time, you have to build up to 30 set volume routines over time, and increased frequency over time. The best conditioned westsiders do 30+ work sets on their workout days, and up to 2 extra workouts EVERY DAY.
05-09-2005, 01:42 PM
I forgot to mention, once your body is well accustomed to the workload, and your GPP has improved quite a bit, these workouts actually serve as restoration workouts as well, if the muscles you are working have been worked with very heavy/near maximal loads in the day or two before you do the extra workout...
05-09-2005, 01:51 PM
We did GPP when I played football, although never w/any weight. We would do mountain climbers, jumping jacks and other calestenics. This might be a good way to ease into the type of workout ex is talking about.
05-09-2005, 02:22 PM
when you said westsiders, do you mean guys who use the west side training style described in the sticky on this forum?
05-09-2005, 05:00 PM
i'm a cardio and strength athlete and i do something similar. i realized that big compound exercises match the profile of the sprint phase of High Intensity Interval Training. i keep my heartrate elevated for the "rest phase" by doing shadowboxing and drills, then i do a balls to the wall set of deadlifts or something, to failure, dogcrapp style, then i begin shadowboxing again. an all out set like this is great preparation for 40 seconds of all out effort.
05-09-2005, 07:00 PM
Westsiders = people who train AT westside barbell.
As for extra workouts resembling HIIT, somewhat yes. Though extra workouts can be tweaked a little, with higher volume and less time between reps to focus more on GPP and recovery, or lower volume and more time between reps with heavier weight to actually promote some hypertrophy and minor strength gains.
05-10-2005, 08:21 AM
Ive done this before with hang cleans and squats. Its a completely different type of cardio. Its more like a 'at the end of the set I want to fall over and puke' type of cardio. Definitely works to get the heart moving! I guess it works your body similar to a high-intensity sprint. Although I would still say a few sessions of ~20min low intensity cardio per week would be very beneficial for fat loss and cardiovascular health.
05-10-2005, 09:19 AM
do you people really hate getting on a treadmill for 25 minutes at a 2.0 incline and 3.5 speed after a workout that much?? lol
damn powerlifters .... *mutters obscenities under his breath and walks away*
05-10-2005, 10:01 AM
I knew it was either glen or Lean One who was gonna say, basically "quit your sniveling and do some freaking cardio..."Originally Posted by glenihan
...which, of course, is true. I used to run 4 days a week, and now I cry about 20 mins. occasionally. Could it be old age???
05-10-2005, 11:57 AM
05-10-2005, 12:09 PM
this is going to sound retarded, but what do you mean by swiss ball curls
05-10-2005, 01:12 PM
Heh, glen's diet is making him crabby
The treadmill is a waste of my time man, unless I was trying to get sub10%, in which case I'd probably hit it... This is much more productive for me
Undertaker: That is an OK but not really good. Check out www.elitefts.com, the article section, either the T-mag or louie simmons articles.
Guyfromkop: I meant swiss ball crunches.
05-10-2005, 01:30 PM
Not at all - you're just not in good shape cardiovascular-wise. I work with a guy who is 44 yrs old, he runs like 50 miles a week. Of course, he's a marathon runner and only weighs 150lbs too....which, of course, is true. I used to run 4 days a week, and now I cry about 20 mins. occasionally. Could it be old age???
If you dont do any cardio while bulking, and you pack on a good 20-30 lbs, trying to pick it up again is going be a real chore. I was in that 'no cardio' camp and I didnt do anything other than a 5-minute warm up for about 3 years. Well, 70 lbs later and I felt like I was going to have a heart attack after being on the elliptical for 15 minutes.
Im doing really good now though, and can run a mile or two at a good pace without a problem.
Bottom line is - cardio is good for you. Neglecting it is bad. A couple sessions a week, whether its the treadmill or the high intensity stuff exnihilo is talking about - will actually help recovery, help keep your blood pressure under control, and keep you from turning into a bulked out freakosauraus.
05-10-2005, 01:33 PM
Bulked out freakosaurus!~ I love it!Originally Posted by BigVrunga
05-10-2005, 01:49 PM
ex- what's your workout look like? weights and all
05-10-2005, 01:56 PM
If you mean my general workout, it changes from day to day, I use a pretty well tuned westside workout. I just started keeping a workout log at ironaddicts.com though.
I gave an example of the conditioning workout in the first post, if you don't quite understand how the workout is set up.
05-15-2005, 07:31 PM
i read in MILO about this WO that consisted of lifting stones for time or an alotted # of reps.
So now people say i am a true freak when people see my 130 lb chunk of limestone in my kitchen.
I shoulder it non stop for 20 minutes, 3-6 reps a minute, thatll kick you in th ebutt
its good to do it with a partner
I STILL DRAG THE SLED, that also works with partners.
05-15-2005, 09:12 PM
You might also want to try getting a large sandbag and filling it up till it weighs about 75-100lbs, then try picking it up and hoisting it over your head a couple times a minute for about 15-20 minutes, or better yet, picking it up and hurling it as far as you can, then walking over to it and repeating the process.
You should check out dinosaur training if you haven't already man, cool book.
05-15-2005, 09:35 PM
dear god would you nutjobs just get on a treadmill!Originally Posted by exnihilo
05-15-2005, 10:35 PM
You can get on a swissball without it bursting under you?Originally Posted by exnihilo
05-15-2005, 11:18 PM
g4ud1n: Depends. I would be worried about the ones you get at Kmart, but we have balls that are supposedly tested to 2100lb capacity at my gym...
Glenihan: The treadmill is the tool of the ordinary Those of us who want to be extraordinary need extraordinary training techniques
05-16-2005, 12:12 AM
What you should do is buy a holstien calf, and walk around with it across your shoulders every day...
05-16-2005, 06:07 PM
yeah i made a kettle bell (67lbs) and throw it for an explosive movement, i also do high pulls to my nose and then letting it go , with 135 on the bar.
killer upper back and trap builder.
what kind of , and where, briefs would you get if you were a first time PL gear user, ex?
05-16-2005, 09:14 PM
I would advise you to get a Titan centurion suit, belt it off at the waist and leave the straps down. Titan makes the best single ply poly gear out there IMO, though a lot of people like metal gear too (but it's super expensive and almost always needs to be tailored since they cut it weird normally, whereas titan fits most people pretty well).Originally Posted by kelsey
I would advise you to buy it from www.plgearonline.com, priscilla ribdic is super nice and if you provide your thigh, waist and hip measurements, bodyweight and height, she'll be happy to size you up via email and send you a suit the same day, which you will get usually within 3-5 days. If you order directly from titan they'll quote you like 8-10 weeks to get your suit out to you...
07-24-2005, 02:59 PM
i will never run. & it's got to be kind of gratuitous dragging/toting, boulders,trees & the like
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