Are any imbalances possible if I leave out barbell & db rows?
I've always felt like I get a lot more out of pull-ups & chins.
I would say whatever works best. Try it and see. I actually just tried doing this a couple months ago I swear. I was doing my usual HIT routine and was only doing heavy chins for lats/back width. But in my case, I totally noticed that I was losing rear delt mass and upper lat mass. So I switched back to doing both.Originally Posted by Moyer
Rows develope back thickness while pullups develop width. definately don't leave them out.
Couldn't have said it better myselfOriginally Posted by Sticks
You'll throw off your symmetry by developing width w/o thickness. Plus, Rows are crucial for developing strength in the spinal erectors. I would guess that by failing to develop these crucial muscles while adding mass around it might be a recipe for injury.
I split my back into vertical and horizontal pulls, 4 days apart. This allows me to keep great intensity on all movements. I do weighted pullups, pullups, modified pulldowns, etc. on one day. I do rack deads, bb rows, t-bar rows and cable rows the other. I'm loving it.
but what about deadlifts, won't they develop back thickness as well
Yes, but the tension is quite different than that caused by a row. Think about the difference in range of motion.
Exactly.Originally Posted by Sticks
Personally I work in all three of the afformentioned exercises. All great back lifts.
Deads are great. When done correctly they will cause your entire back to grow including you rear delts and traps. But you still really need to include all three if you want to keep your back in proportion.Originally Posted by dsl
some form of pull ups (or pull downs), some form of deads (from the floor or rack) and some form of rows (db, bb, cable, or t-bar) are essential to developing a good back (both wide and thick)
its helpful to think of back as two different muscle groups (back width and back thickness)
You start DCing yet G?Originally Posted by glenihan
when i'm done with bobo i will
Another good back width exercise is rack chins.
If you have a free standing adjustable Decline Bench move it into a Cage or Smith machine and turn the bench around so the back of your heels are on the rollers where your feet normally hook into when you are Declining correctly. Adjust the bench to its highest point so when you go up and down your feet are just rolling on the rollers of the bench. If your bench is too high you can bring the bar you grab onto down a bit so when you are at the bottom of the position your ass is almost touching the floor. Just get your feet higher than your ass and keep your back straight throughout the whole movement and squeeze those lats.
rack chins---never heard of them...but they look ****en awesome
Here's a stupid question for you guys, on something I've never quite understood. Just exactly is the difference between back width and back thickness? I have no mental image of what each is supposed to represent.
Not to go too far off topic, but that is one perfect ass in your avatar.. DAYUM!Originally Posted by max silver
Width - Horizontal width of your back usually excaserbated by your lats
Thickness - exactly as stated, how 'thick' or how much mass is packed on the back.
Easiest defs I can think of.
That's pretty much what I thought the width definition was referring to, but how does one go about measuring thickness? Is that more of a vertical kind of characteristic, such as high or low lat insertions would lead to different amounts of overall mass, or something different?
Goddamn I'm feeling like a dolt right now, this seems like it should be a simple concept.
Think of width as shoulder to shoulder and thickness as front-to-back. If you had great width, but no thickness you would turn to the side and look like ****. I also think the details in the rhomboids, teres major, etc would be non-existent, as those seem to be primarily developed with rows.
Thanks, that clears things up nicely for me.