- 03-25-2005, 01:21 AM
- 03-25-2005, 01:26 AM
as for my goals...right now im torn between going to the cut starting in April or just keeping the bulk going (im up to 178 from 153 and at about 14% bf-all since Jan 1). But I'm planning a trip to paradise at the end of the summer so maybe I'll just make that my target date. I think Id be able to get to 195-205 by end of June and then go for the cut to about 180-190 by mid August.
- 03-25-2005, 11:37 AM
03-29-2005, 09:54 PM
You can try 5x5. How many days are you lifting? I did the FrankieNY 5x5 Program, but there are many others out there. Frankie's is at the Muscletalk forum. I dont know how much you care about strength, but heres a version of 5x5 based on Bill Starr's program and John Smith's 5x5: (i am a big proponent of 5x5 if you cant tell)
Olympic Squats 5x5 (same weight)
Benching 5x5 (flat, close grip or regular)(same weight)
JS Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (low volume triceps and abs)
Olympic Squats 5x5 (reduced 15-20% from Monday) or Front Squats 5x5
Standing Military Press 5x5 (same weight)
Deadlifts 5x5 (same weight) (if you pull 2.5x bodyweight do 3x5)
Pull ups 5x5 (use weight if you need it)
Accessory (biceps and abs)
Olympic Squats 5x5 (working up each set)
Benching 5x5 (flat or incline)(same weight)
Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (low volume triceps and abs)
The idea is simple: pick a weight you can do for 5 sets of 5, and if you complete all the sets and reps, then next time bump the weight up 5 or 10 pounds.
Before beginning the program it is important to establish 1 rep maxes for the squat, bench press, military press, and deadlift, and 5 rep maxes for the squat, bench press, rows, military press, and deadlifts.
The first week, it is important to begin very conservatively and prepare to set new 5 rep maxes on about the 4th-6th week, rather than the 1st or 2nd week. It will take some time for your body to grow accustomed to training this way, and in the beginning you’re gonna be sore as hell.
If you get all the sets and reps, then you increase the weight (5-10lbs) for the next week, and if not, you keep the weight the same.
Try and set new 5 rep maxes on weeks 4-6 for beginners , and weeks 3-4 for veterans and then move to a 3x3 for 2x per week.
Run the 3x3 for 2-3 weeks, drop the squatting frequency to 2x per week (or even every 4-5 days if you need the additional recovery), and try setting records on the 4th or 5th workout. (Also, weight increase are the important thing here).
Then cycle down to 1 set of 3 for 2 or 3 workouts, and maybe even go for a max single at the end.
So basically what you get is a 4-6 week prep phase, followed by a 3-5 week peaking phase.
One point – during the initial phase where 5x5 is being used you MUST stick to the required volume and frequency. Back off the weight if you have to, but always get in all 5 sets of 5.
Here's the original post by JS about it...
Monday: Squats, Benching, Rows
Weds: Squats, Military Presses, Deadlifts, Chins
Friday: Squats, Benching, Rows
Courtesy of bill starr bill starr, the greatest strength coach who ever lived, popularized this in the 70's with his great book, The Strongest Shall Survive, which was aimed at strength training for football. I believe he had essentually two different programs which both are 5 sets of 5. The first, which is more suitable for beginners, is to simply do 5 sets of 5 with similar weight jumps between each set so that your last set is your top weight. When you get all 5 on the last set, bump all your weights up 5 or 10lbs. Example for squat... 185 for 5, 225 for 5, 275 for 5, 315 for 5, 365 for 5. If you get 365 for 5, move all weights up. This is especially good for someone who is just learning a particular exercise like the squat, because the amount of practice with light but increasing weights is a good way to practice form.
For more advanced lifters, he advocated a warmup, then 5 sets of 5 with a set weight. For example, the same athlete used in the other example may do 135 for 5, 185 for 5, 225 for 3, 275 for 2, 315 for 1, then 350 for 5 sets of 5. When successfull with all 25 reps at 350lbs, bump the weight up the next workout by 5 or 10lbs.
This is not outdated, and is a good program for gaining strength. Many elite athletes still use it during at least part of the year. I in fact do 5 sets of 5 on squatting for 4 weeks as part of an 8 or 10 week training cycle. Personally, i do it 3 times a week, but most people will probably make better progress doing it 2 times per week, or even doing version 1 once a week, and version 2 once a week.
In any event i described a system in a post a while back that goes something like this:
Monday use the heaviest weight you can for all 5 sets (same weight each set)---- in other words when you get all 5 sets of 5 reps up the weight (most workouts you will get 3 or 4 sets of 5- and maybe your last one will be for 3 or 4 reps)
Wednesday use 10-20% less weight- in other words if you used 200lbs on monday use 160-180lbs on wednesday- actual amount depending on your recovery
Friday work up to a max set of 5-
In other words lets say that your best ever set of 5 is 215lbs and you used 200lbs on monday for 5 sets and 170lbs on wednesday. On friday your workout might be like this 95 for 5 135 for 5 175 for 5 200 for 5 then attempt 220 for your last set of 5.
This tends to work better as a long term program than doing the same thing 3 times a week. On exercises where you only do them once a week like deadlift you can just do the 5 sets of 5 like i described. On monday on exercises that you are only doing twice (rows) you could do both exercises like the monday workout or lighten one of them depending on your recovery ability. Be conservative with the weight when you start- that is important.
Also i have used this program VERY often with athletes and it IS result producing. However many of your gains will show up after you use it for 4-6 weeks and you switch to training a bit less frequently and lower the reps and volume. However this is one program i have had a LOT of success with. In fact i rarely if ever use it with athletes who are at the top of their weight class because it causes too much weight gain unless you severely restrict your food.
03-29-2005, 09:59 PM
03-29-2005, 10:04 PM
Word. But you are only 18 years old. DC isn't really recommended for newbie's. Just keep it simple. Compound movements and progressive weight. Fury's post is pretty good.Originally Posted by glenihan
03-29-2005, 11:47 PM
03-29-2005, 11:56 PM
check out intensemuscle.com its DC's (Doggcrap aka Dante) home board you'll find EVERYTHING you need to know there ... i'm gonna start up with his routine when i start bulking this fall .. i may sign up with him to train me as well ... we'll see
03-30-2005, 12:17 AM
I guess ive only been serious about lifting for a year, but for my age i know a lot. im no newb compared to many people i read about here or have to help in the gym.Originally Posted by natedogg
im lifting 5 days a week right now. thanks for the long post. im going to go on UD 2.0 this summer, but i still need something for before that. unless i stay with max-ot.Originally Posted by Fury20
03-30-2005, 09:06 AM
i don't think natedogg was referring to you as newb because you don't know anything ... the fact that you're using Max-OT at 18 tells me you know a lot .. more than most 18 year olds or people at any age for that matter ... **** at 18 i was doing some dumb**** workout i got out of FLEX ... goddamn it
anyway DC's workout is for people who have more years under their belt lifting ... you really need a solid base and muscle control that can only be acquired after lifting for a few years
are you still getting gains and going up in strength with Max-OT? if so stick with it you can modify the routine though ... if you want i can post what my modified version of Max-OT that worked wonders
03-30-2005, 09:54 AM
Flex w/o, when i started at 16 that was me. A year later i have blown way past that. I am doing DCtraining now 3.5 weeks in. Its a great system. I am still a proponent of 5x5. Thats what i usually recommend to people.
03-30-2005, 10:57 AM
Yea i gues...i just dont like begin called a newb. anyway...im still getting gains from max-ot and im definitly at least going to finish off the program and maybe i will just start it again and make some modifications to it. pretty much all my lifts are going up. Dumbell bench is at a standstill at 80, but barbell is going up. barbell curls have been at 115 for a little while, but its only been 2 or 3 weeks so thats no concern. dumbell curls are going up anyway. all my leg lifts continue to climb, and most of my back/shoulder lifts as well. raises are getting hard to increase at 40 though.Originally Posted by glenihan
yea thatd be great if you could post it or pm me your modifications and ill take a look. thanks.
03-30-2005, 11:14 AM
i'd pm them but you're not a board supporter so you don't have PM's
mon - chest and bis (remember the order of exercises varies each week)
flat bench - 3 sets 4-6 reps (not counting warm ups you MUST warm up the muscle group during the first exercise)
incline bench - 2 sets 4-6 reps
some type of fly - 2 sets 4-6 reps
straight bar curls 2 sets 4-6 reps
incline alternating db curls 2 sets 4-6 reps
tues - legs
squats - 3 sets 10-12 reps (done every other week - replaced with leg press)
leg ext - 2 sets 8-10 reps
leg curls - 2 sets 8-10 reps
calves - 3 sets 6-10 reps OR try to get as many reps as possible in 4 minutes using a rest-pause technique
wed - off
thurs - shoulders and tris
db press 3 sets 4-6 reps
lateral raises 2 sets 4-6 reps
shrugs 3 sets 6-8 reps
skull crushers 2 sets 4-6 reps
overhead ext 2 sets 4-6 reps
friday - back
deadlifts 3 sets 4-6 reps (done every other week)
weighted pull ups 3 sets 4-6 reps
low rows 3 sets 4-6 reps
sat and sun - off
there are many other exercises i put in place of the ones i listed (i.e. pulldowns instead of pull ups, preacher curl instead of straight bar curls, hack squats instead of leg ext, etc.) but that's the general idea
03-30-2005, 01:27 PM
I don't doubt you know more than other people that have been working out for a year at your age, but you're a newbie nonetheless. In fact, I still consider myself a newbie. Don't take it personal.
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