failure.. yay or nah

[LakeMountD]

what do you guys think about this topic?

i am kind of torn between it.. i havent had enough experience wth it.. it does however seem like it puts too much stress on my body in that since i workout 5 days a week my nervous system doesnt really have enough time to recover.. yet i think its essential for strength..

 

[jweave23]

Depends on your type of program, experience, and if you mean at the end of each set or each day, each exercise? I go to failure at the end of each muscle group each time, haven't noticed any problems with it. (Meaning if it's chest/tri's day I'll fail on my last rep of last exercise of chest and tri, sometimes last two sets, last rep). Again, depends on your program too though.

 

[Draven]

Personally I don't think absolute failure is necessary (Meaning a spotter has to helps). I usually go to positive failure (Which is the the rep just before absolute failure) and then sometime absolute on my last rep of a superset (Usually cause it'll be with dumbells or something that doesn't require a spot..

 

[sage]

rarely do i go to negative failure (only when lifting with a partner, wanting to throw in some shock methods) but going to failure at the positive portion of a rep, i do quite often. Sage

 

[Sheesh]

Personally, I like to go to positive failure with all my sets and sometimes negative failure depending on the exercise.


...and way to steal my Yay or Nay thing...

 

[weissmuller]

I've always believed in going to positive failure on most sets. Recently I've been adding drop sets or something after that to go a little past that. I've had to lower the number of working sets but have made better gains than normal. I am really leaning twords the 1 set per an exercize to complete hell following lighter sets which ressemble warmups.

But no matter what I think something has to go to failure when training for mass, but not necessarly ever set.

 

[Supa Freek 420]

But no matter what I think something has to go to failure when training for mass, but not necessarly ever set.

Not every set, but at least the last set of every exercise for me.

 

[Biggs]

failure = yay... also, I love drop sets and rest pause... usually last set or two of exercise extended with two drop sets (immediately decrease weight, bust another 8 reps, decrease weight again, bust another 8)

 

[ex_banana-eater]

i hate the way failure effected my strength gains, so i discontinued training to failure.

 

[maddogman]

I always go to positive failure with the last 3 sets of an exercise. I think it depends on your experience, the exercise you are doing, the weight and number of reps that decides whether you should got to absolute failure.

I dont really go to absolute failure that often. If I do it will usually be on the 10th or 12th rep rather than the 4th or 5th. I'm paranoid about putting to much pressure on my body structure hence causing injury when positive failure is more than enough. I think i'm a little too cautious, as long as you have good technique absolute failure can be highly beneficial.

 

[Big H]

Oh god, not another failure debate. The benefit of going to failure has NEVER been proven by science, nor will it. It does nothing for you.
All of you who think "hey, i feel it" do you know what you are feeling? When you cannot possibly lift the weight again, you are experiencing golgi tendon interuption and also lactic acid build up. All going to failure does is increase soreness, and we have already established that soreness is not a sign of growth. So why does this crap still persist? Because of those HITer's who preach it.
As Banana said it is detrimental for strength training because it is mainly failure due to eccentric overload. Do we want more soreness when we are training? The answer is NO!

 

[lifted]

It's funny to keep seeing these old threads pop up for no reason, but it's good so that we can remember whats happened/happening.

So what the hell...I go to positive failure on every excercise and on each set. Now that I read this I might actually try something a little different and go to one rep shy of positive failure on each set, and then on the last set, add in some beyond-failure techniques...sounds like it may do me better this way...

I tell you what though, once you're so used to going to positive failure, it's hard not to.

 

[Cogar]

I believe it has been proven that going to failure spikes cortisol. If there is one thing that I do not want to spike, that is it. Although I sometimes go to failure, I never do so deliberately.

 

[iron addict]

It depends on the volume level to a large degree. The higher the volume, the lower the intensity. Great results can be had taking sets one or two reps short of failure. But if you are doing extremely low volume work, failure allows the most work to be done with the fewest sets.

Both methods work well.

Iron Addict

 

[Chunky]

It depends on the volume level to a large degree. The higher the volume, the lower the intensity. Great results can be had taking sets one or two reps short of failure. But if you are doing extremely low volume work, failure allows the most work to be done with the fewest sets.

Both methods work well.

Iron Addict

Agree on that.
With a high volume and failure program on about each set, you're gonna put a lot of stress on your CNS, which could hurt your progress (or even overtraining).

 

[jjjd]

the very way the question is posed yields the obvious answer.

of course it is not ESSENTIAL.

duh.

whether or not it is an effective strategy to use as PART of a workout program iow on occasion is a different question

but it is not "essential". that's ridiculous

 

[VanillaGorilla]

It has always worked well for me.

 

[RobInKuwait]

Since I don't use a spotter, I only go to failure on those exercises where I can do so and remain safe, such as with dumbells and deadlifts, but not with bench or squats.
About a month ago I was doing squats and went down and couldn't go back up. I had to sit down and shrug off the barbell. I was very lucky I didn't get hurt. I'm a little more cautious on going to failure now.

 

[wojo]

just look at my avatar and u can see which way i swing..exercise has to be brief intense and infrequent.. frankly i think its funny hearing someone claim they go to failure then do another set if u really went to failure on ur first set there is no way in hell u can get another set..**** i can barely walk after a workout....there def is a mental hurddle to overcome when training to failure...so yay right here just my 2 cents

 

[jjjd]

"just look at my avatar and u can see which way i swing..exercise has to be brief intense and infrequent.. frankly i think its funny hearing someone claim they go to failure then do another set if u really went to failure on ur first set there is no way in hell u can get another set..**** i can barely walk after a workout....there def is a mental hurddle to overcome when training to failure...so yay right here just my 2 cents"

this is demonstrably FALSE. if exercise HAS to be (iow there is no other way) "brief, frequent and intense" then please explain how the bulgarians, the greeks, the russians, do so well in olympic weightlifting. bulgarians train 6 days a week, up to 3 sessions a day

also please explain sivorkian (sp?) and other champion powerlifters who train very frequently as well

your claim is simply false. one can argue that training to failure is a good option. one cannot claim one HAS to train to failure, because there are WAY too many opposing methodologies that have an absolutely proven record of success. that is not opinion. that is fact

 

[wojo]

well if its so false why do u want a explanation? didnt ask u to believe me nor do i have time to sit u down and explain..it is my opinion..jsut as thats urs.its perfectly fine u disagree with me.

 

[wojo]

i think a lot of people make mistakes when they train to failure and are following a volume approach in that they do a set of exercises in the same order everytime.like say if u do benches and squats in the same workout(ie a full body routine) and always do squats before the benches.well uir bench maybe down because ur exhausted from a set of squating to failure.i think rotating them would be benefical. jmo

 

[jjjd]

"well if its so false why do u want a explanation? didnt ask u to believe me nor do i have time to sit u down and explain..it is my opinion..jsut as thats urs.its perfectly fine u disagree with me."

it is an opinion that is countered by reams of empirical FACTS

you could have an opinion like "HIT is a good way to train".

you cannot have a VALID opinion that it is the ONLY way to train, which is your claim

that runs counter to EVIDENCE

EVIDENCE means a lot more than unsubstantiated opinion.

 

[wojo]

wow i have been officially schooled.i will never think that way again.

 

[jjjd]

feel free to think whatever you want - the moon is made of cheese, you only need 10 grams of protein a day, water is bad for you, steroids don't cause muscle growth

all of these things are FALSE, but if you want to believe falsehoods, if it makes you happy, go nuts

 

[wojo]

dude what makes u think ur so right.ur "empirical data" gimme a break ur childish attitude is annoying.u dont understand something so u beret it? have fun child i have a job and life and will not even make u important enough to answer any longer

 

[jjjd]

congratulations. fight the good fight, HIT WARRIOR!!!!

 

[wojo]

HAD A NICE BATTLE TODAY.SORE AS HELL TOOL

 

[jjjd]

#1 well i guess i am important enough, because you already broke your claim that you wouldn't responding to me any longer

#2 i was wondering how long it would take you to resort to ad hominems ("tool"). you call me a child, but that is evidence that YOU are the child