Building Bigger Lats
- 01-02-2005, 09:25 PM
Building Bigger Lats
I am currently on a cycle of PHs and would like to take this opportunity to build my weaker areas, one of which are my lats. I was wondering how my current back routine could be changed to build the most lat width and thickness. I would like to be able to do wide-gripped chins with my bodyweight (at least..)
Barbell Deadlifts: 3 sets 4-6
Barbell Rows: 3 sets 6-8
T-Bar Rows: 3 sets 6-8
WG Pulldowns: 3 sets 6-8
Hammer Grip Chins: 3 sets 4-6
- 01-02-2005, 10:00 PM
my back routine is as follows
DB shrugs 3 sets 5-8reps
BB deadlift 4 sets 6-10 reps
t-bar or BB rows 3 sets 4-6 reps
chins 3 sets 4-12 reps
and a side note i dont specificly try my biceps seperately
- 01-03-2005, 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by cobain67
01-03-2005, 05:32 PM
use the assisted pullup machine if they have it. And I would personally lower the number of sets of eliminate an exercise or two. Heavy deads, chins, and some kind of heavy row would be enough for me personally.
01-22-2005, 11:18 PM
For overal lat width for me nothing beats reverse grip pulldowns, vary grip each set anywhere from close, shoulder width and wider than shoulder width, second I would recommend wide grip pulldowns using a straight bar NOT the type that are angled at the ends but a completely straight bar. Other ex I feel for me really hit the lats are 1-arm dumbbell rows(make sure to get a good stretch at the bottom & do em standing) & close neutral grip seated cable rows.
For thickness I like, bent over barbell rows, bent over smith machine rows, and fwd or closer neutral grip bent over T-Bar rows(not the chest supported type) & of course deadlifts(from the floor) or rack deads or even smith deads.
01-23-2005, 01:31 AM
01-23-2005, 09:24 AM
im tellin ya i got great width doing wide grip chins and adding some weight on it. my back is my best body part. i have people always asking me what i do for it and my traps.
01-23-2005, 10:35 AM
01-23-2005, 10:49 AM
jminis, i would love to know how any exercise can emphasize the "lower lats" since the lats run as one muscle fiber. how does one preferentially emphasize the lower portion of a muscle fiber?
01-23-2005, 11:20 AM
as a rule pulling back movments build thickness,pulling down builds width.so chins,and any type of pull downs on the lat machine for width,and bent rows,t bar rows,i arm db rows,for thickness.deads hit more of the erectors and will build overall back mass.
01-23-2005, 11:27 AM
I'm assuming it would work similar to how incline press emphasizes the upper portion on the pec muscle fibers.Originally Posted by jjjd
01-23-2005, 08:10 PM
rob, the upper and lower pecs have DIFFERENT insertion/origin points
you can preferentially emphasize one over the other because of the anatomy of the pectoralis major
there is a biologically distinct upper pectoralis vs. lower pectoralis
there is no biologically distinct upper lat vs. lower lat
so, the situation is not analoguous and my question remains
01-23-2005, 10:35 PM
What you say is true but I read an article (don't remember where) that stated that close grip will bring out the lower portion of the lats. I've incorporated them into my routine and boom my lower lats started to come out. Maybe it's just because your hitting them from a different angle, regardless of exactly why, it worked.Originally Posted by jjjd
01-23-2005, 10:53 PM
Yea,, but why would u want to hit lower lats?.. wont overdeveloped lower lats kill the V-taper ?Originally Posted by jminis
01-24-2005, 07:17 AM
I agree with Jminis here. It's all about angles and leverage. Even though the lat is one muscle, depending on the angle of pull you will clearly stress one area over another.Originally Posted by jminis
Case in point . the bicep is probably the simplist muscle we are concerned with in terms of shape (unipennate) and insertion points. However, when you do a bicep curl on an incline bench so your arm is hanging down behind you, stress is clearly placed on the lower part of the bicep towards the elbow.That's where it's sore the next day. Alternatively, when you perform the same exercise PRONE on an incline bench so your arm hangs down in front of you, the stress is clearly focused on the upper part of the bicep near the shoulder. The difrence is clearly perceptable. Sometimes book theory doesn't always apply in the real world.
And BTW, Why be such an instigator? It serves no useful purpose other than clutter the board with bull**** negativity.
01-24-2005, 09:50 AM
01-24-2005, 09:51 AM
01-24-2005, 03:12 PM
instigator? why is it ok to repeat "brotelligence" about training, but not about AAS
i see simply no evidence to believe (and tons to disbelieve) that one can preferentially emphasize the lower lats. iow, absent evidence, it's absurd
you can't break the laws of physiology because you think it sounds kewl
as far as the lower biceps being more sore, therefore the MUSCLE is preferentially stressed, that is equally absurd. the fact that it is sore might just be tendon stress? who knows? but to say it is preferentially emphasizing a different PORTION of a muscle fiber is absurd. sorry.
brotelligence doesn't fly with AAS; it shouldn't fly with training either. or are we here to sing kumbaya and not expect some degree of rigeur?
sorry, if insisting that bogus statements about physiology are questioned makes me an "instigator" than i proudly wear that name - instigator
01-24-2005, 03:41 PM
Mabey you should brush up on your physiology. A muscle fiber will contract either with full force or none at all.True. However, Depending on how stress is placed on a muscle and the relative position of the bodypart will recriut difrent motor neurons to get the job done most eficiently. So there. Instigator...Originally Posted by jjjd
01-24-2005, 06:43 PM
Brotelligence? where do you get that from, Cobain asked a question because he was having problems with his lats and I gave him an exercise to help with them. Do close grip lat pulldowns emphasize the lower portion of the lats, YES. It's called knowing your body and how it works, not sticking my head in a book and saying oh well this won't work because.
LeanOne your dead on. The body tries to make things as easy and efficient as possible. This is why when you hit failure your form goes to ****, your body wants to bring in secondary muscles to help with the stress. Anyway different angles activate different motor neurons which will in return are connected to muscle fibers (motor unit). So why do you think it's impossible to activate the lower or upper portion of of muscle?
One last thing, some things look great on paper but don't really pan out in the real world (ex. certain supps or PH's). Our bodies are the most complicated machines on earth. To sit at your keyboard preaching you "know" something is impossible for the body is just comical.
Originally Posted by jjjd
01-24-2005, 10:30 PM
(never tried to upload an image before - hope this works)
jjjd, the point is not the single, narrow insertion, but that broad sweep of origin! changing the angle of the pull shifts the load among the various regions/bundles/fibers (pick one) - which you can see from the illo.
That said, it's clear that subtle changes in how one addresses the exercise in question (and the form one adopts) can have wide(!)-ranging impact on the muscle being targeted. Any muscle, in fact, having similarly broad origin, *and* sufficient range-of-motion to safely apply the load along the desired vector.
This is what people mean when they talk about "hitting a muscle from all angles" (assuming of course that they know some M-S physiology).
Not being an exercise physiologist by trade, I stand to be be corrected....
LO? jminis? Am I full of it here?
Anyway, hope this helps
01-24-2005, 10:37 PM
...and by the same token, you can't simply dismiss them because you don't understand them.Originally Posted by jjjd
well...not if you want to stay injury-free, that is
what's absurd is figuring that TENDON stress would mimic MUSCLE soreness. if you can't tell the difference between the two in your own body...well...maybe you should work with a trainer or somethingOriginally Posted by jjjd
01-24-2005, 10:56 PM
Abselutely...NOT! Very well put. Exactly what I was trying to get across in difrent words. And with pictures even! That's way beyond my abilities. Thanks for the input.Originally Posted by BodyWizard
01-24-2005, 11:31 PM
01-25-2005, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by BodyWizard
Your right on man nice illustration. I was trying to get this point across above but didn't put it as elegantly as you. LOL
01-25-2005, 10:35 AM
Let me chime in here.
Most may not think of this for building lats, but I feel the most underrated overrated exercise is the barbell bench press. It's overrated because people believe it is the pinnacle of all chest exercises, which it is not. However, I am a firm believer that it is one of the, if not THE, best exercise for building upper body mass.
I will probably be kicked in the balls and banned for thinking so, since the movement has nearly become taboo for hardcore bodybuilders, but as long as you use proper form rather than trying to look big with a heavy bench, you will be free from injury....and be building a huge upper body. JMO.
01-25-2005, 10:48 AM
That's a good point. That's why I train chest and back together. It's a pretty cool feeling when you get done working chest and you have a lat pump too. Makes me feel like an animal. GRRRRR....Originally Posted by BLee32x
01-25-2005, 10:49 AM
i would LOVE to see an EMG study or ANY study that shows one can preferentially work the "lower lats" or the "lower biceps". this, to me sounds akin to the pre-copernicans using ever elaborate explanations to try to uphold their theories.
sorry, doesn't fly with me
furthermore, there is a simpler way to confirm this. have you ever seen pictures of various elite bbers when they were young, and/or before they started training?
i have. arnold, cutler, ruhl, etc.
i have never seen ONE change the shape of a muscle, or have any development that would suggest they could preferentially emphasize "lower lats", "lower biceps" etc.
otoh, you CAN preferentially emphasize lower vs. upper abs, because even though they are one sheet of muscle, they have a special structure and with different innervation points (which anybody watching a belly dancer could confirm) AND emg studies have confirmed this
sorry, jminis et al, but i find your defense of "lower lat" training non-persuasive
i remain, eternally yours... the instigator.
01-25-2005, 10:57 AM
Nobody here said anything about changing the shape of a muscle. What we're talking about here is developing your genetic structure to its fullest potential.Originally Posted by jjjd
I have no need to persuade you. It serves no purpose to me. I have complete confidence in my knowledge and experience. It's your right to disagree. It makes no difrence to me whatsoever.
01-25-2005, 12:06 PM
i didn't say you had a need to persuade me
i have seen zero evidence for anybody ever preferentially emphasizing lower lats or lower biceps.
i accept mythology for what it is.
when and if anybody has some evidence that this can be done, i'm all for listening.
i'm glad you have complete confidence in your knowledge and experience. i am always looking to learn new things, but i do so with a critical eye
as soon as somebody presents me with a REASON to believe that lower lats/biceps can be preferentially emphasized, i would love to be stood corrected. it would mean i had learned something new. that's a good thing
but i don't accept "brotelligence", and that's how i see the justifications for same, thus far.
it's not an insult or an attack on any person. it is a questioning/critique of ideas
fwiw, back on subject... my preferred exercise for bigger lats are
1) pullups (wider grip)
2) pullovers (imo, certain machines in a rare instance of machines being better than freeweights are arguably superior for this exercise)
3) lat pulldowns
i think deadlifts and clean and jerks are great allover back (and body) exercises, but despite my love for them, i think some of the above exercises are more lat-specific
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