Muscle Rest Time

[1976pianoman]

Hi,


How much time is needed for a muscle to rest before I blast it again at the gym? I don't need regimen advice. I just need to know if I need more than 48 hours of rest. I've heard that 72 is optimum, but 48 is sufficient. I'm hoping for what I'm doing this month that 48 is enough.


Do steroids speed up the repair/growth of muscles?


Thank you.

 

[asooneyeonig]

yes and no. 1-168 hours. the variable is dependent on other variables like intensity and volume of said workout.

there are proven programs that have people lifting full body 10 times a week, and no that is not a typo. and others have you lifting a body part every 10-20 days, and no that is not a typo either.

the average lifter will do fine with giving a muscle/movement 2-3 days to recover. most higher frequency programs have you doing a wave with the lift. in other words its not balls to the wall all the time. there are high, moderate, and low intensity days.

 

[PaulBlack]

the average lifter will do fine with giving a muscle/movement 2-3 days to recover. most higher frequency programs have you doing a wave with the lift. in other words its not balls to the wall all the time. there are high, moderate, and low intensity days.

This ^^^ is pretty dangum accurate from my experiences.

It is kinda like, you wanna be able to train the body as much as possible, but still not eroding recovery. Now the big thing here might be the muscle groups you are training. ie: legs and hips, huge movers may take 3-5 days for good recovery whereas chest or shoulders can be less and the smallest groups every other day.
Some HIT'ers claim waiting 20 or so days as ASOONEYEONIG, states. This to me gets as extreme as full body 7 or so days a week.
The masses, 80% of us, do fine with 2-3-4 days recovery.

 

[ZiR RED]

Muscles are highly plastic and adaptable, and recover fairly quickly. What you should be concerned with is how much time does the CNS need to recover between workouts of varying magnitude and volume.

Jason Cholewa, Ph.D., CSCS

 

[russy_russ]

It also depends on the extent of muscle injury (i.e., relating to intensity and volume). In our mouse model we use 150 eccentric contractions at 38 degrees joint angle at 2,000 degrees per second. In an untreated mouse, it takes up to 28 days to restore maximal in vivo isometric torque. Most of the torque deficits less than 5 days post injury induction stem from excitation-contraction uncoupling. The remainder is frank loss of contractile and force bearing proteins. However, injury you see with a typical resistance training program in humans does not account for this extent of injury. So, like previously mentioned there are many variables (including nutrition) that can affect the recovery process.

 

[1976pianoman]

I'm taken back and inspired by this. From here on out I'm going to run test cycles on mice and possibly my cat Leeloo before I begin real human trials. It only makes sense.

 

[russy_russ]

I'm taken back and inspired by this. From here on out I'm going to run test cycles on mice and possibly my cat Leeloo before I begin real human trials. It only makes sense.

Without science, where would we be? Anecdote? Without animal trials we would not be near the scientific advancements in modern medicine. Be it as it may (with use of animal research), but it saves lives.

 

[1976pianoman]

Without science, where would we be? Anecdote?

I wasn't knocking you. Just having some fun. I appreciate your input.

 

[VS91588]

Muscles are highly plastic and adaptable, and recover fairly quickly. What you should be concerned with is how much time does the CNS need to recover between workouts of varying magnitude and volume.

Jason Cholewa, Ph.D., CSCS

I would also like to add that nutrition and supplementation takes into effect to. In my opinion, I believe a muscle can never overtrain if you are eating enough based on your training goals. A person like Michael Phelps for example eats 10,000 calories a day and also trains about 9 hours a day. He is eating enough to give him energy to allow him to train for that length of time and still maintain his muscular weight and frame based on his sport.... I would love to hear other opinions based on nutriton & overtraining

 

[tigerdb2]

Phelps is also an elite athlete who, over years, has become acclimated to that workload and stimulus. He gradually built up the work capacity needed for that. Adding calories won't eliminate the possibility of overtraining as there's a large cns component. It's not simply muscles needed protein and calories. Adequate nutrition helps but isn't the only factor

 

[Pypp]

What about muscle rest on test cycle?

 

[ZiR RED]

I would also like to add that nutrition and supplementation takes into effect to. In my opinion, I believe a muscle can never overtrain if you are eating enough based on your training goals. A person like Michael Phelps for example eats 10,000 calories a day and also trains about 9 hours a day. He is eating enough to give him energy to allow him to train for that length of time and still maintain his muscular weight and frame based on his sport.... I would love to hear other opinions based on nutriton & overtraining

I partially agree, and it might come down to semantics. You are right that if you are eating enough to support output then the "muscle" will likely never over train, so long as you are providing 48 hours of recovery time and progress with volume correctly. This all applies to more metabolic based training, which you could almost lump the typical bodybuilding routines into with their higher volume and moderate intensities (% of 1rm).

That said, while nutrition does play a role in CNS recovery, you can easily exhaust the CNS and adrenal axis, which will lead to over training, despite perfect nutrition. This is much more likely to occur in strength and power athletes, such as sprinters, throwers, olympic lifters, and power lifters. The CNS and adrenal axis requires more recovery time to "recharge" than does muscle, and with high volume high intensity high frequency programs over reaching can easily ensue, and if not checked with a period of reduced loading, lead to over training.

Jason Cholewa, Ph.D., CSCS

 

[ricroc]

Great thread. Something I've been curious about for some time as well. How would one know if they did tax their CNS too far? Would the body just be miserable and literally not want to lift or do anything, stemming from shocking the CNS too much? Following the old adage of, "listen to your body?"

 

[1976pianoman]

Great thread. Something I've been curious about for some time as well. How would one know if they did tax their CNS too far? Would the body just be miserable and literally not want to lift or do anything, stemming from shocking the CNS too much? Following the old adage of, "listen to your body?"

I have the same question. I think I've felt it before but not sure. There's a tingly, buzzing type almost electrical sensation. It's mild, but a bit discerning. Even before I read here about the CNS, I intuitively thought maybe it was my neurons "hurting". Being overworked and not rested enough. That's kinda what it felt like.

 

[ZiR RED]

Over training is systemic. You will feel: chronically fatigued, difficult to "warm up", excessive DOMS, lack of desire to train, elevated resting HR and blood pressure, loss of heart rate variability, loss of strength/power (handgrip dynomameter or vertical jump might be an easy test for CNS fatigue), compromised immune function, loss of apetite, chronically elevated cortisol (and if it goes to the extreme, a loss of cort production, furthering the inability to generate energy during exercise), mood disturbances, insomnia, etc.

Jason Cholewa, Ph.D., CSCS

 

[ricroc]

Over training is systemic. You will feel: chronically fatigued, difficult to "warm up", excessive DOMS, lack of desire to train, elevated resting HR and blood pressure, loss of heart rate variability, loss of strength/power (handgrip dynomameter or vertical jump might be an easy test for CNS fatigue), compromised immune function, loss of apetite, chronically elevated cortisol (and if it goes to the extreme, a loss of cort production, furthering the inability to generate energy during exercise), mood disturbances, insomnia, etc.

Jason Cholewa, Ph.D., CSCS

Thanks for this. I took a week off two weeks ago to give my body some rest. It was well worth it. Came back a touch stronger than before. I did have some DOMS, but nothing of an excessive sort. I believe it had to do with lifting heavier and incorporating a few different exercises I hadn't done.

I'll remember this for later. Especially handgrip test and feelings of chronic fatigue.

 

[1976pianoman]

Over training is systemic. You will feel: chronically fatigued, difficult to "warm up", excessive DOMS, lack of desire to train, elevated resting HR and blood pressure, loss of heart rate variability, loss of strength/power (handgrip dynomameter or vertical jump might be an easy test for CNS fatigue), compromised immune function, loss of apetite, chronically elevated cortisol (and if it goes to the extreme, a loss of cort production, furthering the inability to generate energy during exercise), mood disturbances, insomnia, etc.

Jason Cholewa, Ph.D., CSCS

Good to know. Thanks. I think my tingly, electrical sensation in my right forearm is something else. It's so mild and not persistent, I won't worry about it for now.

As for these over-training symptoms. On epistane I experience many of these. I consider them to be "sides" and not related to over-training - I hope. Feeling kinda dopey and lethargic. Nothing I can't power through.

 

[Blaine123]

Consume 2/3 cup of water, Avoid liquor, caffeinated drinks and other motivators, These little jewels have all the lovely flavor of lollies, with the involved compensate of complement C and steel....

 

[LTFU]

Lots of knowledgable people with great points in this thread. To pose a question slightly different from the main, while on a cycle of pH's or test can you increase the amount of times you lift a body part per week because of increased recovery? And as long as CNS allows you too..