should older people do power training?
- Thread starter anoopbal
- Start date
anoopbal
Member
Would love to know what makes you think that way? Thanks!
ZiR RED
Well-known member
Yes! This is actually where I am looking to take my betaine and resistance training research next. No one has looked at the effects of a western periodized training program with the major outcome increased force production at lower external loads (i.e.: power) on function in the elderly. And to add in another dimension, what happens when you supplement an older population with betaine, which may increase lean mass, decrease fat mass, increase gh/igf-1, and improve force output....
Good stuff Anoop!
Good stuff Anoop!
anoopbal
Member
Thanks Jason. What does betaine do? Hope you checked the references I had.
I don't understand why trainers don't focus more on this population. These are the people with money! This was probably the first artcile on this topic in older adults.
OnionKnight
Well-known member
us trainers do focus on the older population. thats what majority of our clients are in chain gyms lol. sometimes their health insurance even covers sessions. and we do focus on power movements because they arnt as capable as younger people. gotta be careful with their meds, typically no heavy compound movements, no prone exercises, no plyometrics (duh). either trainers do some ridiculously stupid-fuk routines with older people, or they do power movements like ball slams or chest passing. unfortuately its usually the stupid-fuk routines that you see more often
AZMIDLYF
Legend
I am sure that I would qualify in the older segment and recently tested a betaine supplement by Finaflex called Max Pump. I can tell you for a fact that I was a machine in my workouts. The endurance and stamina were off the charts. I was only given enough to test it for 15 days and plan on purchasing more. Do you think there would be a point of diminishing returns after some time and should it be cycled. I ask you because I remember you doing a thesis on betaine if I am correct.
ZiR RED
Well-known member
I don't think you would see a "tolerance" type of diminishing returns to it as you would a stimulant. However, I believe the supplement works in part via cellular swelling and its protective mechanisms against protein degradation, so its possible that once the muscle fiber is saturated and "swole" the quick increase in gains will slow down.
Anoop - betaine has been shown in various populations (mostly recreationally trained men, with the exception of my study) to do everything I mentioned above. Here is a presentation of my research to the Exercise Science Department at UK.
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Br
Anoop - betaine has been shown in various populations (mostly recreationally trained men, with the exception of my study) to do everything I mentioned above. Here is a presentation of my research to the Exercise Science Department at UK.
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Br
Movin_weight
Active member
In my old gerontology classes we were encouraged to use modified power movements with our senior populations to improve fall prevention and overall functional ability. Of course your not going to have this population performing power cleans or bench throws, but power training in the general sense is definitely beneficial to an older population.
KimChee
Member
Pathology, Impairment, functional limitation, disability..it the Nagi disablement model that we use in PT..lol. I agree with the article somewhat that it's important for older adults to maintain muscle through resistance training, and I this article refers to the "well elderly."
I think the main reason most trainers don't work with the frail elderly is because most elderly I work with tend to suffer from disuse myopathy, but also have multiple comorbidities (HTN,CAD,CHF,COPD,syncope,alh,dementia,etc). Diseases, diagnoses, medications, and signs and symptoms, and other precautions, they may not be familiar with. Most of these patients are at a high fall risk, or have fallen, and a great deal of the population needs IV's, supplemental oxygen, and need constant monitoring of vital signs, which I think wouldn't be practical for someone in a personal training setting. Most of these patients are not very independent, and might not even be able to make it to the gym on their own, and would be very dependent person to do simple things.
The focus may be on very basic functional activities, bed mobility, bed to chair, W/C sit to stand, ambulation, etc. The strengthening is basic seated and standing exercises, to promote LE strength and endurance..someone first introduced to acute care may have trouble walking 180' without assistance. Our OT's work on fine motor and grooming tasks, toileting, bathing, putting on clothes, etc. Also very low functioning people will have greater access to emergency services and nursing, doctor staff if needed. I work in an inpatient setting on the weekends a couple times a month, and while it's rewarding it can be very stressful to work with this population of people.
I think the main reason most trainers don't work with the frail elderly is because most elderly I work with tend to suffer from disuse myopathy, but also have multiple comorbidities (HTN,CAD,CHF,COPD,syncope,alh,dementia,etc). Diseases, diagnoses, medications, and signs and symptoms, and other precautions, they may not be familiar with. Most of these patients are at a high fall risk, or have fallen, and a great deal of the population needs IV's, supplemental oxygen, and need constant monitoring of vital signs, which I think wouldn't be practical for someone in a personal training setting. Most of these patients are not very independent, and might not even be able to make it to the gym on their own, and would be very dependent person to do simple things.
The focus may be on very basic functional activities, bed mobility, bed to chair, W/C sit to stand, ambulation, etc. The strengthening is basic seated and standing exercises, to promote LE strength and endurance..someone first introduced to acute care may have trouble walking 180' without assistance. Our OT's work on fine motor and grooming tasks, toileting, bathing, putting on clothes, etc. Also very low functioning people will have greater access to emergency services and nursing, doctor staff if needed. I work in an inpatient setting on the weekends a couple times a month, and while it's rewarding it can be very stressful to work with this population of people.
anoopbal
Member
Yes it is the Nagi disablement model. I took it from the article referenced in the article and it shows very well the sequence. It is pretty much known that loss of muscle mass/strength is a major determinant of disabling process.
There is an obvious inclusion and exclusion criteria. Typically, people with neurological , major CVD events and who has been advised by doc not to exercise are excluded. There are studies looking at frail individuals, but very few. I do think in coming years there will be more attention on sarcopenia ( muscle & strength loss with ageing) and how we can diagnose it and manage it better. There is still a lack of consensus on how to diagnose sarcopenia and where to draw the line between sarcopenia and fraility.
KimChee
Member
I agree its important, I think personal training as a field in general is great, but it's a very limited scope of people in normal personal training that we are working with. With the "well-elderly" it is an even smaller group of people to draw from..that imho will be the main barrier to this type of training...it would be great because most of my "falls" patients are due to disuse myopathy.
anoopbal
Member
And why not? Once you hit 45, your muscle gradually starts to decline. Anyone over 45 is vulnerable to muscle and strength loss - in some it leads to sarcopenia. So anyone over this age should be focusing on preventing muscle and strength loss. The majority of people who hire trainers are the older people. They are the ones with money, not the 22-25 year old. And you don't wait to get frail before starting exercising. Considering the whole health care crisis we are in and how prevention seems to be the solution, personal trainers are in a prime position. I just added the trainer thing, the main point is muscle loss and how to prevent it.
And you are right about going to the gym and such. majority won't go or don't have the money. There are large trials going on looking at home interventions in older people. Sometimes if people can just exercise, that is good enough. All the little changes in reps, power and all that might be an overkill you know.