Post Workout cardio to reduce lactic acid

[proteinftw]

So I read somewhere about doing light cardio for 20 minutes after your workout to get rid of lactic acid and jumpstart the recovery.
Does anyone do this?
Do you take your protein shake immediately after workout, and then do the cardio?

My normal postworkout is immediately hydro whey, 30 mins later dextrose, 30 mins later huge meal

 

[murk01]

So I read somewhere about doing light cardio for 20 minutes after your workout to get rid of lactic acid and jumpstart the recovery.
Does anyone do this?
Do you take your protein shake immediately after workout, and then do the cardio?

My normal postworkout is immediately hydro whey, 30 mins later dextrose, 30 mins later huge meal

yeh. warm up-workout-cooldown
ur talking about the cooldown. its good to do

 

[Rodja]

Lactic acid is gone within minutes. The thought that lactic acid is the culprit for DOMS has been proven to be incorrect. However, it'll improve recovery, but not for the reason you listed.

 

[proteinftw]

Lactic acid is gone within minutes. The thought that lactic acid is the culprit for DOMS has been proven to be incorrect. However, it'll improve recovery, but not for the reason you listed.

Oh cool that's exactly what I want do you think I should take a protein shake after the weight training or after the cardio. Ty

 

[Rodja]

Oh cool that's exactly what I want do you think I should take a protein shake after the weight training or after the cardio. Ty

It doesn't really matter.

 

[fueledpassion]

Lactic acid is gone within minutes. The thought that lactic acid is the culprit for DOMS has been proven to be incorrect. However, it'll improve recovery, but not for the reason you listed.

I agree. Regular cardio helps me recover from DOMS much more quickly. The difference is usually about 24hrs. But Rodja is exactly right in that lactic acid is gone shortly after discontinuing the exercise.

Lactic acid just stops energy production. It later gets converted back into pyruvate for energy and cycles all over again.

 

[tnubs]

wouldnt cardio after weights inhibit mTor when we need it the most?

 

[anoopbal]

wouldnt cardio after weights inhibit mTor when we need it the most?

Good question. Not sure. There is a study which showed greater hypertrophy when weights was combined with endurance training ( but 6 hrs apart).

 

[tank316]

With my work hours I have no choice but to do post work out cardio, and thus far I feel its not hindering any gains. I do sip on bcaa's pre/intra/post, its just something I have done for 15 yrs. every little bit helps IMHO.
Treadmill or ellpitcal 30-40 min max. Some cardio is better then none :naughty:

 

[tnubs]

Good question. Not sure. There is a study which showed greater hypertrophy when weights was combined with endurance training ( but 6 hrs apart).

we are both members of another forum where there were a lot of studies posted showing cardio is the devil (CS)
do you have the link to the one with cardio and weights split up? i think the only way i would do cardio would be if i was following ADF and did it on my fasted days totally away from my "anabolic" period and food consumption.

 

[proteinftw]

I really was talking about just brisk walk at most cardio in my original thread.. But don't we all walk around all day? I don't see the real danger in just walking.

 

[tnubs]

Walking is pretty harmless

 

[anoopbal]

we are both members of another forum where there were a lot of studies posted showing cardio is the devil (CS)
do you have the link to the one with cardio and weights split up? i think the only way i would do cardio would be if i was following ADF and did it on my fasted days totally away from my "anabolic" period and food consumption.

This one:couple ofthings 1. beginners 2. 6 hrs part

J Appl Physiol. 2013 Jan 1;114(1):81-9. doi: 10.1152/japplphysiol.01013.2012. Epub 2012 Oct 25.
Aerobic exercise does not compromise muscle hypertrophy response to short-term resistance training.

Lundberg TR, Fernandez-Gonzalo R, Gustafsson T, Tesch PA.

Abstract

This study tested the hypothesis that chronic aerobic and resistance exercise (AE+RE) would elicit greater muscle hypertrophy than resistance exercise only (RE). Ten men (25 ± 4 yr) performed 5 wk unilateral knee extensor AE+RE. The opposing limb was subjected to RE. AE completed 6 hr prior to RE consisted of ~45 min one-legged cycle ergometry. RE comprised 4 × 7 maximal concentric-eccentric knee extensions. Various indexes of in vivo knee extensor function were measured before and after training. Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) assessed m. quadricep femoris (QF) cross-sectional area (CSA), volume, and signal intensity (SI). Biopsies obtained from m. vastus lateralis determined fiber CSA, enzyme levels, and gene expression of myostatin, atrogin-1, MuRF-1, PGC-1α, and VEGF. Increases (P < 0.05) in isometric strength and peak power, respectively, were comparable in AE+RE (9 and 29%) and RE (11 and 24%). AE+RE showed greater increase (14%; P < 0.05) in QF volume than RE (8%). Muscle fiber CSA increased 17% after AE+RE (P < 0.05) and 9% after RE (P > 0.05). QF SI increased (12%; P < 0.05) after AE+RE, but not RE. Neither AE+RE nor RE showed altered mRNA levels. Citrate synthase activity increased (P < 0.05) after AE+RE. The results suggest that the increased aerobic capacity shown with AE+RE was accompanied by a more robust increase in muscle size compared with RE. Although this response was not carried over to greater improvement in muscle function, it remains that intense AE can be executed prior to RE without compromising performance outcome.

 

[fueledpassion]

I really was talking about just brisk walk at most cardio in my original thread.. But don't we all walk around all day? I don't see the real danger in just walking.

I walk @ 3.5mph on a 15% incline. I can burn up to 215 calories in 15 minutes of walking at that pace/angle. This is post-workout.

IMO, short of outright sprints I have never come across a more effective cardio session for burning calories. If I do this aerobic session post-weightlifting, I even get the cardio effect since my beginning heart rate is around 130. I usually end up around 155-160 after the 15 minutes is up.

 

[JudoJosh]

we are both members of another forum where there were a lot of studies posted showing cardio is the devil (CS)
do you have the link to the one with cardio and weights split up? i think the only way i would do cardio would be if i was following ADF and did it on my fasted days totally away from my "anabolic" period and food consumption.

I think the generally consensus was LISS is not as beneficial as one might think

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2

 

[JudoJosh]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225621

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2

 

[chedapalooza]

But if you are trying to build or maintain muscle, LISS is pretty pointless, no?

You're much better off blasting some sprints out in 20 minutes post workout to ramp up the metabolism and fat burning for hours after you leave the gym... Otherwise you're just burning calories needed to build/maintain your muscle ...

At least that's my opinion after being a LISS FREAK for years... Now I do all HIIT cardio workouts, it takes less time, I'm leaner, and have more muscle...

 

[JudoJosh]

LISS is pretty pointless no matter the goal (unless I suppose you are looking to build cardiovascular endurance or a long distance runner)

There is a possibility of it hurting strength and hypertrophy gains and the fat loss benefits are damn near non exsistent when compared to a caloric deficit diet (and adding LISS to a caloric deficit diet hasn't really shown much difference WRT weight loss)

HIIT, hill sprints or sled sprints are the way to go

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2

 

[TexasGuy]

I prefer HIIT myself for cutting quickly but LISS is certainly an easy way burn extra calories without taxing the CNS if on an intense lifting routine. It never cuts in to recovery time but sprints, bleachers et cetera absolutely do.

 

[JudoJosh]

These are relevant

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/209517-how-much-impact.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/202969-simple-calories-vs.html

 

[TexasGuy]

I'm not here to argue. LISS burns calories and it preserves the CNS. Plain and simple. You may prefer different methods to a caloric deficit and that's fine.

 

[fueledpassion]

LISS is pretty pointless no matter the goal (unless I suppose you are looking to build cardiovascular endurance or a long distance runner)

There is a possibility of it hurting strength and hypertrophy gains and the fat loss benefits are damn near non exsistent when compared to a caloric deficit diet (and adding LISS to a caloric deficit diet hasn't really shown much difference WRT weight loss)

HIIT, hill sprints or sled sprints are the way to go

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2

I actually do more energy expenditure through cardio rather than cut calories. Granted, this amounts to slow fat loss but it does ensure less muscle wasting, too. I'm think a combination of both cutting calories and increasing expenditures through cardio is the best bet for most people though as cutting fat by calorie deficit alone will come at the expense of your muscle mass.

Now, is LISS a subjective thing? Or is there a quantifiable measurement to decide what is LISS and what is HIIT/HIT?

I like 70-80% of MAX heart rate for 15-20 minutes. Granted, I could easily maintain such a workout for 40 minutes or longer if I wanted to. Does that make it LISS or is it still considered High Intensity? My understanding is that your heart rate ultimately determines the type of aerobics that you are doing.


The explanation for LISS hurting muscle gain is an easy explanation: it pulls so many calories at a time, robbing your muscles of glycogen & amino acids in the process. Being deprived of both, and likely not being able to eat a caloric surplus (as is the case for many endurance runners) equates to small muscle mass. You pull from your muscles so much in long endurance training that its hard to give the muscle enough nutrients to actually grow. This has been observed in studies as early as the 70's and 80's.

 

[fueledpassion]

These are relevant

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/209517-how-much-impact.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/202969-simple-calories-vs.html

I read through the top link a little bit and with that I do agree with what you are saying. In fact, I would actually increase calories very gradually as I increase cardio amounts.

Now, if you want a study group, I'll gladly be the group that increases expenditure at a caloric maintenance.

 

[Legacyfighter]

I agree. Regular cardio helps me recover from DOMS much more quickly. The difference is usually about 24hrs. But Rodja is exactly right in that lactic acid is gone shortly after discontinuing the exercise.

Lactic acid just stops energy production. It later gets converted back into pyruvate for energy and cycles all over again.

Cardio immediately after training will help reduce/ prevent DOMS. BUT THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. DOMS are part of an inflammatory response that helps to increase recovery and adaptation. Doing cardio after weight training turns on AMPKinase which essentially shuts down the hypertrophic response mTOR. So cardio after training, while reducing soreness, also reduces potential muscle gains.

DOMS is actually more of an indicator of proper training and recovery nutrition. For instance, if you go into a big caloric deficit and do the same workout you normally do to get sore, you will actually get less sore. If you are a low/no carb dieter, you will likely never get sore from training. you will also likely never grow, or grow very very little.

 

[JD261985]

Cardio immediately after training will help reduce/ prevent DOMS. BUT THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. DOMS are part of an inflammatory response that helps to increase recovery and adaptation. Doing cardio after weight training turns on AMPKinase which essentially shuts down the hypertrophic response mTOR. So cardio after training, while reducing soreness, also reduces potential muscle gains.

DOMS is actually more of an indicator of proper training and recovery nutrition. For instance, if you go into a big caloric deficit and do the same workout you normally do to get sore, you will actually get less sore. If you are a low/no carb dieter, you will likely never get sore from training. you will also likely never grow, or grow very very little.

Ok I'm pretty sure I see some of the biggest guys at my gym doing cardio after training lol. Are you sure it makes THAT much of a difference? Some difference sure but I bet it varies from person to person. I do low intensity cardio 20-30 minutes after training and I've just started doing one set on all my lifts (HIT) but getting crazy DOMS

 

[Rodja]

Cardio immediately after training will help reduce/ prevent DOMS. BUT THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. DOMS are part of an inflammatory response that helps to increase recovery and adaptation. Doing cardio after weight training turns on AMPKinase which essentially shuts down the hypertrophic response mTOR. So cardio after training, while reducing soreness, also reduces potential muscle gains.

DOMS is actually more of an indicator of proper training and recovery nutrition. For instance, if you go into a big caloric deficit and do the same workout you normally do to get sore, you will actually get less sore. If you are a low/no carb dieter, you will likely never get sore from training. you will also likely never grow, or grow very very little.

Most of this is an opinion with not a lot of scientific merit. mTOR is not "shut down" from post workout cardio; it may be reduced, but to say that it is shut down is wrong along with saying that DOMS is essential. There isn't any clear indication whether or not DOMS is beneficial and/or if it plays a role in hypertrophy.

 

[fueledpassion]

Most of this is an opinion with not a lot of scientific merit. mTOR is not "shut down" from post workout cardio; it may be reduced, but to say that it is shut down is wrong along with saying that DOMS is essential. There isn't any clear indication whether or not DOMS is beneficial and/or if it plays a role in hypertrophy.

Thankyou, sir. DOMS keeps me out of the gym (at least in regards to the muscle group that is sore). If I could recover quickly enough for it, I'd want to train twice a day. The more the better (if your body is fully recovering). According to the guy who isn't about cardio post-workout, I'd like to know what exactly is he suggesting? Two-a-days? I only do that pre-comp. It's not practical for most people to do cardio AM and then train another 60 minutes at night. I have a FT job and school so that aint happenin right now.

We all know that cardio pre-workout is harmful to the muscle, as you are basically depleting anaerobic energy (carb glycogen) on aerobic exercise. This leads to amino acids being broken down into glycogen for energy instead of carbs when we do anaerobic training.

I do agree that the best time to do cardio is several hours before weight training. But I also think that PWO cardio is also good, especially for recovery and fat-burning. Not as good as AM cardio, but still a good option that is better than nothing. I am about to move to a specialization training in my legs, so this conversation about recovery is very relevant to me right now. I need to know the best way to recover quickly.

 

[JD261985]

Thankyou, sir. DOMS keeps me out of the gym (at least in regards to the muscle group that is sore). If I could recover quickly enough for it, I'd want to train twice a day. The more the better (if your body is fully recovering). According to the guy who isn't about cardio post-workout, I'd like to know what exactly is he suggesting? Two-a-days? I only do that pre-comp. It's not practical for most people to do cardio AM and then train another 60 minutes at night. I have a FT job and school so that aint happenin right now.

We all know that cardio pre-workout is harmful to the muscle, as you are basically depleting anaerobic energy (carb glycogen) on aerobic exercise. This leads to amino acids being broken down into glycogen for energy instead of carbs when we do anaerobic training.

I do agree that the best time to do cardio is several hours before weight training. But I also think that PWO cardio is also good, especially for recovery and fat-burning. Not as good as AM cardio, but still a good option that is better than nothing. I am about to move to a specialization training in my legs, so this conversation about recovery is very relevant to me right now. I need to know the best way to recover quickly.

There was an article on here that said pre workout cardio is better than post because test levels remain high as opposed to doing post workout cardio where test levels begin to drop

 

[Rodja]

There was an article on here that said pre workout cardio is better than post because test levels remain high as opposed to doing post workout cardio where test levels begin to drop

Acute fluctuations in test will have very little, if any, effect on body composition.

 

[fueledpassion]

There was an article on here that said pre workout cardio is better than post because test levels remain high as opposed to doing post workout cardio where test levels begin to drop

No, you have it backwards actually. I read the same article where it showed 30 minutes of biking before strength training in the legs and 30 minutes of biking afterwards and it came to the conclusion that post-workout cardio allowed athletes to keep higher levels of test over the next 24 hours and had quicker recovery. Not to mention your strength and stamina will obviously be much better performing cardio after the workout rather than before.

 

[Jiigzz]

Acute fluctuations in test will have very little, if any, effect on body composition.

And the slight increases in GH.