[anoopbal]

This is one of the most common arguments against science or an evidence-based approach. How true or how wrong is this statement? Check out this article please: All I care about are results and not evidence or science

[TexasGuy]

Actual, observable results are evidence that X or Y works and that science may or may not be able to explain yet.

Gravity existed long before Newton.

Going upstream against irrefutable truths is stupid but let's be honest, few hard facts, genuine facts, exist in the kinesiology/nutritional world where universal application is concerned. Results exist, however. Like gravity did, before Newton described it. Disregarding actual results because a study doesn't exist to "prove" the result in a lab setting is also stupid.

[Resolve]

Determining how to obtain the best results is science. That's exactly what science is.

[asooneyeonig]

uhm, science shows evidence via results of a fact. so dismissing science and evidence is dismissing results. that statement has to truly be the most oxymoronic statement i have ever heard.

[TexasGuy]

uhm, science shows evidence via results of a fact. so dismissing science and evidence is dismissing results. that statement has to truly be the most oxymoronic statement i have ever heard.

Who is dismissing science and evidence?

[asooneyeonig]

Who is dismissing science and evidence?

good question, who is? i made a factual and an opinionated statement not an accusation.

[TexasGuy]

good question, who is? i made a factual and an opinionated statement not an accusation.

I was just wondering where you were drawing from, for conversations sake.

[TexasGuy]

lol

"Jim Says…
Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV.

Get your **** in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter.

Start doing and believing in the stuff that works, and do it today and forever. You want science and studies? **** you, I've got scars and blood and vomit.

This is a call to arms for some of you. It is for me too. Stop all the things that make you a ***** and steal your energy. Get your life back. - Jim Wendler"

http://www.jimwendler.com/

[napalm]

lol

"Jim Says...
Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV.

Get your **** in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter.

Start doing and believing in the stuff that works, and do it today and forever. You want science and studies? **** you, I've got scars and blood and vomit.

This is a call to arms for some of you. It is for me too. Stop all the things that make you a ***** and steal your energy. Get your life back. - Jim Wendler"

http://www.jimwendler.com/

I make a point to read that quote every day.

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[Resolve]

lol

"Jim Says…
Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV.

Get your **** in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter.

Start doing and believing in the stuff that works, and do it today and forever. You want science and studies? **** you, I've got scars and blood and vomit.

This is a call to arms for some of you. It is for me too. Stop all the things that make you a ***** and steal your energy. Get your life back. - Jim Wendler"

http://www.jimwendler.com/

He may not realize it, but that process of 'taking out the crap that doesn't matter', of 'doing...stuff that works', that's science. He's just playing with semantics to make the point that analysis paralysis is an issue for some people.

[TexasGuy]

He may not realize it, but that process of 'taking out the crap that doesn't matter', of 'doing...stuff that works', that's science. He's just playing with semantics to make the point that analysis paralysis is an issue for some people.

I think the overriding issue of this topic is analysis paralysis vs. actual results, documented by science or not.

[JudoJosh]

And yet another reason why crossfit is retarded



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[EasyEJL]

This is one of the most common arguments against science or an evidence-based approach. How true or how wrong is this statement? Check out this article please: All I care about are results and not evidence or science

I can put together an ikea table with screws and use a hammer to drive them in instead of a screwdriver. I'll still end up with a table so i'll still get results right?

[Rodja]

And yet another reason why crossfit is retarded


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I'm glad this is getting around. I saw Layne repost this and wondered how many people would see it.

[JudoJosh]

I'm glad this is getting around. I saw Layne repost this and wondered how many people would see it.

I saw it in another thread on a different forum followed by a pretty creppy video by Glassman

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[Rodja]

I saw it in another thread on a different forum followed by a pretty creppy video by Glassman

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The "deadlift" video where he uses a PVC pipe instead of a damn bar?

[JudoJosh]

yup

[Rodja]

There is zero application with that teaching method. They have freaking 5lb bumper plates that he could use so she could get the feeling of the bar in her hands, the actual start/stop point, etc.

[Bigcountry08]

yup

All I saw in that video was a chick with a nice butt getting scammed by a homeless guy into sticking out her butt. By him teaching her how to pick up his homeless man walking stick.

Then he started to circle her, I was waiting for him to attack.

[napalm]

They should put a big photo of glassman on their homepage. I never knew he was that out of shape. Great role model for the company...

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[benmayro]

All I saw in that video was a chick with a nice butt getting scammed by a homeless guy into sticking out her butt. By him teaching her how to pick up his homeless man walking stick.

Then he started to circle her, I was waiting for him to attack.

Hahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha hahahahahhahahahahahahhahah, post of the day

[anoopbal]

Actual, observable results are evidence that X or Y works and that science may or may not be able to explain yet.

Gravity existed long before Newton.

Going upstream against irrefutable truths is stupid but let's be honest, few hard facts, genuine facts, exist in the kinesiology/nutritional world where universal application is concerned. Results exist, however. Like gravity did, before Newton described it. Disregarding actual results because a study doesn't exist to "prove" the result in a lab setting is also stupid.

Sorry for the late reply bro.

It is not as simple as you make out of it. You are using like examples which are crystal clear. Another example is parachute saving lives. Most of that you see around doesn't have that large magnitude of effect. Back in those days, smoking was considered good. We still didn't know smoking was bad until it was shown in studies. The same with women taking HRT. Some take HRT and do great while some 'dont'. How are you goona decide if it is good? This is due to the random variation in every biological phenomenon.

We used blood letting for almost 2000 years to treat every disease. Why? People were dying in 1000's. Could't we see the 'observable results' as evidence for it not to work and stop it after a few years? So 'observable' results doesn't say anything if it works or not.

[TexasGuy]

Sorry for the late reply bro.

Its not as simple as you make out of it. You are using like examples which are crystal clear. Another example is parachute saving lives. Most of that you see around doesn't have that large magnitude of effect. Back in those days, smoking was considered good. We still didn't know smoking was bad until it was shown in studies. The same with women taking HRT. Some take HRT and do great while some 'dont'. How are you goona decide if it is good? This is due to the random variation in every biological phenomenon.

We used blood letting for almost 2000 years to treat every disease. Why? People were dying in 1000's. Could't we see the 'observable results' as evidence for it not to work and stop it after a few years? So 'observable' results doesn't say anything if it works or not.

By your logic, science itself should be disregarded.

It is that simple. Throwing out obviously effective techniques and protocols because there isn't an "official" study saying it works is stupid. While science sometimes is a root cause for a paradigm shift in thought, it is usually playing catch up to existing, observable phenomena and either validates existing paradigms or slightly improves the efficiency of application. This has certainly been the case in gym science.

[anoopbal]

By your logic, science itself should be disregarded.

It is that simple. Throwing out obviously effective techniques and protocols because there isn't an "official" study saying it works is stupid. While science sometimes is a root cause for a paradigm shift in thought, it is usually playing catch up to existing, observable phenomena and either validates existing paradigms or slightly improves the efficiency of application. This has certainly been the case in gym science.

Again, what is your definition "obviously effective"?

Can you name a program which is not "obviously effective"? Go to HIT forum and it is obviously effective. got P90x website, it is obviously effective. Go to Tracy Anderson's method, it is obviously effective. Go to homeapathic doctor, and we will have results to show it is "obviously effective".

And nobody ever said to throw out techniques if it is not shown in a study. Depends on a lot of other factors.

[TexasGuy]

Again, what is your definition "obviously effective"?

Can you name a program which is not "obviously effective"? Go to HIT forum and it is obviously effective. got P90x website, it is obviously effective. Go to Tracy Anderson's method, it is obviously effective. Go to homeapathic doctor, and we will have results to show it is "obviously effective".

And nobody ever said to throw out techniques if it is not shown in a study. Depends on a lot of other factors.

Yes, those programs all obviously allow practioners to achieve the defined goals of the program, and they do so despite a lack of individual scientific studies conclusively saying each program will be effective at delivering its defined goal.

I have a better idea; why don't you clarify the argument you are making so we have a basis for discussion?